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Music / Musik » alt.fan.frank-zappa » No Vocals on ID cd
No Vocals on ID cd [message #207687] Do, 19 Januar 2006 21:32
Dan Buxbaum  
I don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but 'Imaginary Diseases" has
no singing at all on it! This is a great representation of the "no
commercial potential" aspect/greatness of Zappa live at 1972.

Mostly all long pieces over 10:00, some or all including serious
improvisation/soloing. Just realized there's not even a keyboard player
in this band! A brilliant performance of Farther Oblivion--only official
release now of course--maybe only bested by the '73 live with George and
the Underwoods/Fowlers.

DC Boogie has some of the best FZ soloing I've ever heard (i know you
guys are already familiar with the tapes of this), but this is tight
swinging stuff. Tony Duran fills out nicely on slide--nice to hear him
in the mix. This cd captured some incredible live FZ solos! Imaginary
Diseases is a great title track with a great theme--superbly played!

Edits/fades galore i can hear/see but you can get a sense of the feeling
of the time: tracks that are crowd-pleasing 4/4 soloing stomps (as a
reward?) interspersed with his compositional brilliance. If we like
Zappa Jazz-jammin' this has to be near the top. Some parts are similiar
to 'Live in NY' but there's just so much more guitaring on this one!

Dislikes: Gail referring to herself as "GZ" in her obtuse notes. And man
does she appreciate the "work" of Joe Travers! Damn, I wonder how many
millions of others could have transferred analog masters to digital? And
Steve Vai's confessional is very reverential, but doesn't really help
the listener with the material presented. Like how 'bout some help with
all those brass and wind players: soloists or somethin'?

(and Charles you have to figure out where that smokin' Farther Oblivion
comes from)
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207702 ] Fr, 20 Januar 2006 04:19
Charles Ulrich  
In article <MeOdnajFVIMMalLeRVn-jg [at] rcn.net>,
Dan Buxbaum <dandor [at] erols.com> wrote:

> (and Charles you have to figure out where that smokin' Farther Oblivion
> comes from)

I would be glad to work on it. But first, a) I need to receive my copy
of Imaginary Diseases, and b) you need to send me recordings of the
other eleven Petit Wazoo shows.

The Petit Wazoo band probably performed twenty-three shows. Recordings
of twelve are in circulation. In other words, I can only check the album
version against half of the concerts.

I think it's highly unlikely that the version of Farther Oblivion comes
from any of the shows that are in circulation. If it were, presumably
Joe would have been able to identify it.

--Charles
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207720 ] Fr, 20 Januar 2006 22:12
Milhouse Guidry of th[2]  
Charles Ulrich wrote:
> In article <MeOdnajFVIMMalLeRVn-jg [at] rcn.net>,
> Dan Buxbaum <dandor [at] erols.com> wrote:
>
>
>>(and Charles you have to figure out where that smokin' Farther Oblivion
>>comes from)
>
>
> I would be glad to work on it. But first, a) I need to receive my copy
> of Imaginary Diseases

Were you made aware in advance of the fact that your name would appear
in the liner notes, Charles?

--
Milhouse Guidry of the mWo
Sometime king of alt.pro-wrestling.dx
I have to pick up a frickin' pie at nine in the morning.

"I apologize and recognize the validity of your argument."
--"Whit Sterling", in one of the more absurdly unlikely
statements in the history of Usenet.

mWo. It's not just the coolest, it's fa lyfe, so survey says
whether you like it or don't like it, never E-e-e-ver tell
me he did *not* just SMELL what mWo 3:16 reeks of.
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207721 ] Fr, 20 Januar 2006 22:15
Milhouse Guidry of th[2]  
Milhouse Authentico wrote:
> Charles Ulrich wrote:
>
>> In article <MeOdnajFVIMMalLeRVn-jg [at] rcn.net>,
>> Dan Buxbaum <dandor [at] erols.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> (and Charles you have to figure out where that smokin' Farther
>>> Oblivion comes from)
>>
>>
>>
>> I would be glad to work on it. But first, a) I need to receive my copy
>> of Imaginary Diseases

I don't know if this helps any, but on _ID_, Frank introduces "Farther
Oblivion" by simply stating "Okay. The name of this song is "Farther
Oblivion" and it has a tango in the middle of it."

As far as you know just from reading that, do you know if it comes from
any of the shows that are in circulation?



--
Milhouse Guidry of the mWo
Sometime king of alt.pro-wrestling.dx
I have to pick up a frickin' pie at nine in the morning.

"I apologize and recognize the validity of your argument."
--"Whit Sterling", in one of the more absurdly unlikely
statements in the history of Usenet.

mWo. It's not just the coolest, it's fa lyfe, so survey says
whether you like it or don't like it, never E-e-e-ver tell
me he did *not* just SMELL what mWo 3:16 reeks of.
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207723 ] Sa, 21 Januar 2006 00:32
Charles Ulrich  
In article <43d25tF1mqp9kU3 [at] individual.net>,
Milhouse Authentico <milhouse_on_a_stick [at] derekmarvelli.org> wrote:

> Were you made aware in advance of the fact that your name would appear
> in the liner notes, Charles?

I was told that it would.

> I don't know if this helps any, but on _ID_, Frank introduces "Farther
> Oblivion" by simply stating "Okay. The name of this song is "Farther
> Oblivion" and it has a tango in the middle of it."
>
> As far as you know just from reading that, do you know if it comes from
> any of the shows that are in circulation?

Farther Oblivion was not performed on 11/11/72 (early) Washington,
12/2/72 (late) Kansas City, or 12/9/72 (early) Portland.

Your transcription does not match 10/29/72 Binghamton, 10/31/72 (early)
Passaic, 10/31/72 (late) Passaic, 11/7/72 Commack, 11/11/72 (late)
Washington, 12/2/72 (early) Kansas City, or 12/9/72 (late) Portland.

The audience recordings of 11/10/72 Philadelphia and 12/3/72 Lincoln do
not include FZ's introduction to Farther Oblivion. One would have to
compare the solos.

--Charles
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207743 ] Sa, 21 Januar 2006 05:54
zutbof  
Dan Buxbaum a =E9crit :

> I don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but 'Imaginary Diseases" has
> no singing at all on it! This is a great representation of the "no
> commercial potential" aspect/greatness of Zappa live at 1972.
>
> Mostly all long pieces over 10:00, some or all including serious
> improvisation/soloing. Just realized there's not even a keyboard player
> in this band! A brilliant performance of Farther Oblivion--only official
> release now of course--maybe only bested by the '73 live with George and
> the Underwoods/Fowlers.
>
> DC Boogie has some of the best FZ soloing I've ever heard (i know you
> guys are already familiar with the tapes of this), but this is tight
> swinging stuff. Tony Duran fills out nicely on slide--nice to hear him
> in the mix. This cd captured some incredible live FZ solos! Imaginary
> Diseases is a great title track with a great theme--superbly played!
>
> Edits/fades galore i can hear/see but you can get a sense of the feeling
> of the time: tracks that are crowd-pleasing 4/4 soloing stomps (as a
> reward?) interspersed with his compositional brilliance. If we like
> Zappa Jazz-jammin' this has to be near the top. Some parts are similiar
> to 'Live in NY' but there's just so much more guitaring on this one!
>
> Dislikes: Gail referring to herself as "GZ" in her obtuse notes. And man
> does she appreciate the "work" of Joe Travers! Damn, I wonder how many
> millions of others could have transferred analog masters to digital? And
> Steve Vai's confessional is very reverential, but doesn't really help
> the listener with the material presented. Like how 'bout some help with
> all those brass and wind players: soloists or somethin'?
>
> (and Charles you have to figure out where that smokin' Farther Oblivion
> comes from)

Thanks for the critic i can't waite for my copy
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207746 ] Sa, 21 Januar 2006 18:22
Dan Buxbaum  
Milhouse Authentico wrote:

>
> I don't know if this helps any, but on _ID_, Frank introduces "Farther
> Oblivion" by simply stating "Okay. The name of this song is "Farther
> Oblivion" and it has a tango in the middle of it."
>
> As far as you know just from reading that, do you know if it comes from
> any of the shows that are in circulation?
>
>
>

Now that I've listened to it a few times, I have a 'hunch' that the
location for Farther Obliviion was listed as "unknown" by FZ because it
is a composite of bits from at least 2 or more shows. Could be wrong
about this. But props to Milhouse though for noticing the edits in this
track at first.

(Did Zappa usually count off the beginning of FO'B in '72? Because on
this, after the intro that Milhouse mentioned above, there's a quick
cut(?) then straight right into the beginning of the piece.)

After listening to the cd a few times more, the overall sound quality is
very reminiscent of the 'FZ-Reverb' sound that he applied so often. It's
comforting to hear that 'sound' even from 4-track (and a sdb cassette)
sources whether you like his mixing or not. Very slight panning--what do
you expect with 4-track--but the sound is still 'full' enough and
lively--giving these jams some real gusto!



--
n.p.: Anthony Davis- Undine
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207748 ] Sa, 21 Januar 2006 20:16
pbuzby2002  
Dan Buxbaum wrote:

> Now that I've listened to it a few times, I have a 'hunch' that the
> location for Farther Obliviion was listed as "unknown" by FZ because it
> is a composite of bits from at least 2 or more shows.

I agree - it sounds like there is a splice at the start of the BeBop
Tango with a change in ambience (becoming "drier" than the first
section had been) and also possibly at the start of the drum solo.

OTOH, there are also ambience changes in DC Boogie, and although I
haven't heard the audience tape from this show it is presumably all
from 11/11/72.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207749 ] Sa, 21 Januar 2006 20:19
Charles Ulrich  
In article <nvOdnZHIV4O_80_eRVn-sQ [at] rcn.net>,
Dan Buxbaum <dandor [at] erols.com> wrote:

> Now that I've listened to it a few times, I have a 'hunch' that the
> location for Farther Obliviion was listed as "unknown" by FZ because it
> is a composite of bits from at least 2 or more shows.

My copy hasn't arrived yet, so I haven't read the liner notes or heard
the track. But my understanding is that the location for Farther
Oblivion was listed as unknown by Joe Travers because he was unable to
identify it.

In the analog era, tapes were edited by physically removing the song
from the original concert tape and splicing it together with the desired
songs from other shows. After this procedure, it's not obvious where the
pieces came from; the only trace in the original concert tape is
probably a splice. So you'd better take good notes. And if the notes are
in your head...

> Could be wrong about this. But props to Milhouse though for noticing
> the edits in this track at first.

Is anything missing at the edits?

Note that there are numerous edits in Billy The Mountain on JABFLA, but
the whole track comes from the same performance. Nothing has been
reordered. Nothing has been edited in from another show. But various
segments--one nine minutes long, several shorter than ten seconds--have
been removed.

--Charles
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207750 ] Sa, 21 Januar 2006 20:23
Milhouse Guidry of th[2]  
pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> Dan Buxbaum wrote:
>
>
>>Now that I've listened to it a few times, I have a 'hunch' that the
>>location for Farther Obliviion was listed as "unknown" by FZ because it
>>is a composite of bits from at least 2 or more shows.
>
>
> I agree - it sounds like there is a splice at the start of the BeBop
> Tango with a change in ambience (becoming "drier" than the first
> section had been) and also possibly at the start of the drum solo.

I also agree that Dan's suggestion above is a good possibility. I know
there's more than one obvious edit in the piece, the *most* obvious of
which cuts from the drum solo to the beginning of the "Cucamonga"
section. I'm interested in what Charles might have to say about it once
he gets to listen to the disc and compare it to the audience tapes.

> OTOH, there are also ambience changes in DC Boogie, and although I
> haven't heard the audience tape from this show it is presumably all
> from 11/11/72.

I thought I had that show and was going to compare, but I just have the
two KC shows (I think I had DC and one other show on my mom's hard drive
waiting to be burned to disc, but I lost them, and a few other shows,
when said hard drive malfunctioned and had to be replaced.)


--
Milhouse Guidry of the mWo
Sometime king of alt.pro-wrestling.dx
I have to pick up a frickin' pie at nine in the morning.

"I apologize and recognize the validity of your argument."
--"Whit Sterling", in one of the more absurdly unlikely
statements in the history of Usenet.

mWo. It's not just the coolest, it's fa lyfe, so survey says
whether you like it or don't like it, never E-e-e-ver tell
me he did *not* just SMELL what mWo 3:16 reeks of.
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207751 ] Sa, 21 Januar 2006 20:41
Milhouse Guidry of th[2]  
Charles Ulrich wrote:

>>Could be wrong about this. But props to Milhouse though for noticing
>>the edits in this track at first.
>
>
> Is anything missing at the edits?
>
> Note that there are numerous edits in Billy The Mountain on JABFLA, but
> the whole track comes from the same performance. Nothing has been
> reordered. Nothing has been edited in from another show. But various
> segments--one nine minutes long, several shorter than ten seconds--have
> been removed.

I really want to listen to "Farther Oblivion" again and make note of
where the edit(s) is / are, but I know the most audible one takes us
from the drum solo (which occurs after the trombone solo, after the
composed "Be Bop Tango") to the "Cucamonga" section and that edit could
perhaps have been made because..
1) there was a reel change during the solo and FZ wanted to edit around
the missing section, or
2) the "Cucamonga" section was actually from a different concert than
the drum solo

Wheter it's all from one performance or assembled from two different
shows, either way, it's not one of the smoothest edits.

I've listened to the album on headphone a couple of times, and the
tracks as they are presented on the CD seem not to have any edits
*during* them (except for "Farther Oblivion"), but some tracks are taken
from longer pieces ("DC Boogie" is the the "Boogie" section of what you
refer to on your webpage as "Seven/Boogie" from 11/11/72 early show. I
haven't compared it to the audience tape myself [which I no longer
have], but "Been to Kansas City in A Minor" is the opening minor-key
blues from 12/2/72 late show, clocking in at 10:15 on the CD, while your
webpage mentions that the performance was "about 13 minutes".. maybe
there was short piece at the beginning snipped out, I will have to check
later. Of course, "Oddients" ends with an edit that takes us to the
instrumental portion of "Rollo", i.e. the part the 78/79 band played as
part of "Yellow Snow", so those have both been obviously shortened.)

--
Milhouse Guidry of the mWo
Sometime king of alt.pro-wrestling.dx
I have to pick up a frickin' pie at nine in the morning.

"I apologize and recognize the validity of your argument."
--"Whit Sterling", in one of the more absurdly unlikely
statements in the history of Usenet.

mWo. It's not just the coolest, it's fa lyfe, so survey says
whether you like it or don't like it, never E-e-e-ver tell
me he did *not* just SMELL what mWo 3:16 reeks of.
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207753 ] Sa, 21 Januar 2006 20:44
pbuzby2002  
Milhouse Authentico wrote:
> I know the most audible one takes us
> from the drum solo (which occurs after the trombone solo, after the
> composed "Be Bop Tango") to the "Cucamonga" section and that edit could
> perhaps have been made because..
> 1) there was a reel change during the solo and FZ wanted to edit around
> the missing section, or
> 2) the "Cucamonga" section was actually from a different concert than
> the drum solo

I'm curious about theory #1 - did Keene have two machines (making it
possible to record the show without losing anything due to reel
changes) or one?

Another theory is that FZ just thought the drum solo deserved a chop at
that point.

BTW, nothing is missing in the piece.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207758 ] Sa, 21 Januar 2006 21:25
Chris West  
In article <1137872683.784090.197010 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com writes
>Another theory is that FZ just thought the drum solo deserved a chop at
>that point.

That seems the most likely to me.

I've just been listening to the audience recording from the Rainbow
1971. In the acoustic guitar solo in King Kong quotes Big Swifty about
four times but only one is left on the official Playground Psychotics
release. Why is that? So that it would sound like Zappa thought it up on
the spot?

--
Chris West
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207764 ] Sa, 21 Januar 2006 22:36
TODD TAMANEND CLARK  
> Dan Buxbaum wrote:
> I don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but
> "Imaginary Diseases" has no singing at all on
> it! This is a great representation of the "no
> commercial potential" aspect/greatness of
> Zappa live in 1972.
>
> Mostly all long pieces over 10:00, some or all
> including serious improvisation/soloing. Just
> realized there's not even a keyboard player
> in this band!

I was just getting set to order it until you said
that!

A band without keyboards is like a day without
sunshine! Or is that a night without moonshine?

#####
TODD TAMANEND CLARK

Current Keyboard Rig:

SYNTHESIZERS:
E-mu E-synth
Ensoniq TS-10
Moog Etherwave Theremin
Moog Minimoog Voyager

SOUND MODULES:
E-mu Morpheus
E-mu Orbit V2
E-mu Planet Earth
E-mu Vintage Keys Plus
E-mu Xtreme Lead One
Oberheim Matrix-1000
Oberheim Xpander

RACK EFFECTS:
ART SGE Mach II
BBE 422A Sonic Maximizer
DigiTech DSP 256
Ensoniq DP/2
Ensoniq DP/4+
Ensoniq DP/Pro
Sabine ADF-4000 Power Q

SOUND SYSTEM:
Crown K2 Power Amplifier
Electro-Voice Sx 500 Speaker Cabinets
Mackie LM-3204 Mixer

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc3
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207766 ] Sa, 21 Januar 2006 22:51
TODD TAMANEND CLARK  
> Charles Ulrich wrote:
> Note that there are numerous edits in "Billy The
> Mountain" on JABFLA, but the whole track comes
> from the same performance. Nothing has been
> reordered. Nothing has been edited in from
> another show. But various segments -- one nine
> minutes long, several shorter than ten seconds
> -- have been removed.

Is this full-length version of "Billy The Mountain"
available anywhere with decent sound quality?

- - - -
TODD TAMANEND CLARK
Poet/Composer/Multi-Instrumentalist/Cultural Historian

Nova Psychedelia (2-CD: Vocal, 1975-1985)
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc4
Owls In Obsidian (CD: Instrumental, 2000)
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc
Staff, Mask, Rattle (2-CD: Instrumental, 2002)
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc2
Monongahela Riverrun (CD: Instrumental, 2004)
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc3
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207772 ] So, 22 Januar 2006 01:09
Charles Ulrich  
In article <1137880311.916357.321270 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"TODD TAMANEND CLARK" <tamanend [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Charles Ulrich wrote:
> > Note that there are numerous edits in "Billy The
> > Mountain" on JABFLA, but the whole track comes
> > from the same performance. Nothing has been
> > reordered. Nothing has been edited in from
> > another show. But various segments -- one nine
> > minutes long, several shorter than ten seconds
> > -- have been removed.
>
> Is this full-length version of "Billy The Mountain"
> available anywhere with decent sound quality?

There's a B- audience recording of the whole 8/7/71 concert.

FZShows lists a B soundboard of the unedited Billy The Mountain
<http://home.swipnet.se/fzshows/7071.html> and/or a B+ "differently
edited" version <http://home.swipnet.se/fzshows/FZUnreleased.htm>. But I
can't vouch for those.

There's also a version that consists of the first twenty minutes of the
JABFLA edit of the 8/7/71 performance plus the last ten minutes of an
unidentified performance.

If anyone has what they believe to be the unedited soundboard/acetate of
the 8/7/71 BTM, please let me know. I'd like to verify that it's
distinct from the hybrid version.

--Charles
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207784 ] So, 22 Januar 2006 16:29
Dan Buxbaum  
TODD TAMANEND CLARK wrote:
>>Dan Buxbaum wrote:
>>I don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but
>>"Imaginary Diseases" has no singing at all on
>>it! This is a great representation of the "no
>>commercial potential" aspect/greatness of
>>Zappa live in 1972.
>>
>>Mostly all long pieces over 10:00, some or all
>>including serious improvisation/soloing. Just
>>realized there's not even a keyboard player
>>in this band!
>
>
> I was just getting set to order it until you said
> that!
>
> A band without keyboards is like a day without
> sunshine! Or is that a night without moonshine?
>
> #####
> TODD TAMANEND CLARK

On this particular cd, no keyboardist means space for many more guitar
solos! (Seemed there's just so many horn solos a "rock n' roll" audience
will tolerate before some heavy 'twang' is required to placate them!)



>
> Current Keyboard Rig:
>
> SYNTHESIZERS:
> E-mu E-synth
> Ensoniq TS-10
> Moog Etherwave Theremin
> Moog Minimoog Voyager
>
> SOUND MODULES:
> E-mu Morpheus
> E-mu Orbit V2
> E-mu Planet Earth
> E-mu Vintage Keys Plus
> E-mu Xtreme Lead One
> Oberheim Matrix-1000
> Oberheim Xpander
>
> RACK EFFECTS:
> ART SGE Mach II
> BBE 422A Sonic Maximizer
> DigiTech DSP 256
> Ensoniq DP/2
> Ensoniq DP/4+
> Ensoniq DP/Pro
> Sabine ADF-4000 Power Q
>
> SOUND SYSTEM:
> Crown K2 Power Amplifier
> Electro-Voice Sx 500 Speaker Cabinets
> Mackie LM-3204 Mixer
>
> http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/ttc3
>
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207786 ] So, 22 Januar 2006 16:46
Dan Buxbaum  
pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com wrote:


> I'm curious about theory #1 - did Keene have two machines (making it
> possible to record the show without losing anything due to reel
> changes) or one?
>
> Another theory is that FZ just thought the drum solo deserved a chop at
> that point.

I do agree that Zappa felt the drum solo deserved to be chopped at the
point for the beginning of the "Cucamonga" section. Remember that this
stuff was edited by FZ from '72-'77 so he would have still been thinking
about vinyl releases. It is a rough tape edit either way.

I still think the FO'B consists of material from different
sources--maybe that is why the various locations(?) were 'lost' over
time? It wouldn't surprise me that Zappa would have liked to assemble a
most 'perfect' version by editing together different sections from diff.
shows(?) ala "Drowning Witch".

Shit i love the 'opening' FZ solo on this version of DC Boogie--Tony
Duran has nice slide solo in the middle-to-the-end of the improv, then
Zappa jumps back in with a more 'electric blues" type solo then the
earlier one which then fades out (sounds like his tuning was starting to
go towards the end of this jam anyway).

I guess more composed pieces would have made a more 'rounded' release,
but i wanted guitar solos--and got them, in rockin' improvs and
crowd-pleasing end-of-show boogie-ing.

--
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207808 ] Mo, 23 Januar 2006 12:01
globual  
"Dan Buxbaum" <dandor [at] erols.com> wrote in message
news:57GdndTi5cKPNE7eRVn-uw [at] rcn.net...

> I still think the FO'B consists of material from different sources--maybe
> that is why the various locations(?) were 'lost' over time? It wouldn't
> surprise me that Zappa would have liked to assemble a most 'perfect'
> version by editing together different sections from diff. shows(?) ala
> "Drowning Witch".

I haven't got the ID yet so I can't even listen to these edits. This thread
certainly whets my appetite. If you're right, then this would have been one
of his first cases of assembling together a piece already composed and
performed in its entirety before, wouldn't it? (Here I reason that "The
Little House I Used to Live In" on BWS and "King Kong" on UM combine
different live materials but both are composed only in the studio. "King
Kong" is actually an interesting case of assembling ala "Drowning Witch" but
it is not strictly speaking a composed piece and this particular version of
it remains unique to itself). We know from what circulates as the
"Un-Concert" that late in 1973 (or perhaps early in 1974), FZ again used his
knife on Farther Oblivion/Bebop Tango, but here he takes shorter sections,
splicing them with other material from the 73 tours rather than try to put
it back together again.

globual


"Dan Buxbaum" <dandor [at] erols.com> wrote in message
news:57GdndTi5cKPNE7eRVn-uw [at] rcn.net...
> pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>> I'm curious about theory #1 - did Keene have two machines (making it
>> possible to record the show without losing anything due to reel
>> changes) or one?
>>
>> Another theory is that FZ just thought the drum solo deserved a chop at
>> that point.
>
> I do agree that Zappa felt the drum solo deserved to be chopped at the
> point for the beginning of the "Cucamonga" section. Remember that this
> stuff was edited by FZ from '72-'77 so he would have still been thinking
> about vinyl releases. It is a rough tape edit either way.
>
> I still think the FO'B consists of material from different sources--maybe
> that is why the various locations(?) were 'lost' over time? It wouldn't
> surprise me that Zappa would have liked to assemble a most 'perfect'
> version by editing together different sections from diff. shows(?) ala
> "Drowning Witch".
>
> Shit i love the 'opening' FZ solo on this version of DC Boogie--Tony Duran
> has nice slide solo in the middle-to-the-end of the improv, then Zappa
> jumps back in with a more 'electric blues" type solo then the earlier one
> which then fades out (sounds like his tuning was starting to go towards
> the end of this jam anyway).
>
> I guess more composed pieces would have made a more 'rounded' release, but
> i wanted guitar solos--and got them, in rockin' improvs and crowd-pleasing
> end-of-show boogie-ing.
>
> --
>
Re: No Vocals on ID cd [message #207811 ] Mo, 23 Januar 2006 15:40
pbuzby2002  
Tomasz Michalak wrote:

> I haven't got the ID yet so I can't even listen to these edits. This thread
> certainly whets my appetite. If you're right, then this would have been one
> of his first cases of assembling together a piece already composed and
> performed in its entirety before, wouldn't it?

One of the first, yes, although another one to consider is Oh No/Orange
County Lumber Truck (in which Oh No is from the studio and OCLT is from
at least two concerts).

FZ mentioned that 8/7/71 (JABFLA) was the first show he recorded with
the portable four-track he used through the end of the 70's, so the
Petit Wazoo tour might have been one of the first where he had tapes of
the entire tour in consistent quality.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Vorheriges Thema:Zappa's painting called "Horny" on ebay
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