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Fantasy » alt.fan.dragons » Google in China
Google in China [message #204976] So, 29 Januar 2006 02:15
Viriatha de Cordova  
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-2014215,00.html

I think Google is a company and while I greatly respect their
ethics, I don't think they are necessarily bad for working with
the Chinese government to achieve their goals. But then, given the
differences between Chinese and American culture, I don't think
that government is necessarily evil either.

--
Lady Viriatha Atyriv de Cordova y Elenia

http://www.tdzk.com/

DC2.~Dw/H Gf L/- Cbl/fs Bfl A? Fr++(tomato)
Nu M++ O+++ H++ $ Fj/v~ R++ Ac++ J S+++ U
I V+++ Tc+ E+ <69 CPs> Keeper of the Tasty
Beverage, Niftian, Mistress of Multi-Tasking,
Friend to Sock Puppets Everywhere

Freedom is just a hallucination created by a pathological lack of
paranoia.
Re: Google in China [message #205091 ] So, 29 Januar 2006 16:01
Scott L  
On a dark and stormy night, Lady Viriatha de Cordova whispered:

> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-2014215,00.html
>
> I think Google is a company and while I greatly respect their ethics,
> I don't think they are necessarily bad for working with the Chinese
> government to achieve their goals. But then, given the differences
> between Chinese and American culture, I don't think that government
> is necessarily evil either.

Problem is, the Chinese government's very clear intent is censorship of
anything and everything that could even *potentially* lead to people
thinking differently from what the government tells them - and a hasty
report to the government of those who (deliberately or accidentally -
doesn't matter) do somehow get this access.

Just a Monkey,

Scott,

--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
Re: Google in China [message #205096 ] So, 29 Januar 2006 16:33
v_dragon  
On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 15:01:13 GMT, "Scott L"
<spamtrap644 [at] insightbb.com> wrote:

>On a dark and stormy night, Lady Viriatha de Cordova whispered:
>
>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2092-2014215,00.html
>>
>> I think Google is a company and while I greatly respect their ethics,
>> I don't think they are necessarily bad for working with the Chinese
>> government to achieve their goals. But then, given the differences
>> between Chinese and American culture, I don't think that government
>> is necessarily evil either.
>
>Problem is, the Chinese government's very clear intent is censorship of
>anything and everything that could even *potentially* lead to people
>thinking differently from what the government tells them - and a hasty
>report to the government of those who (deliberately or accidentally -
>doesn't matter) do somehow get this access.
>
Even though it will be 'censored' there will still be an emense amount
of information and other peoples ideals, alowing the Chinese peoples
access to this knowledge I see as a good thing.




--
Vincent

DC2.D Gm L W- T- Phwalt Skh Cta,bta+ Bco/fl A Fr++ Nn
M O H--- Fo R+++! Ac+ J+ S? I---# V? Q? Tc++[Technition] E+

Keeper of The Great Book of Random Stuff
www.vincentthedragon.com <temp. out of order>
v_dragon [at] bellsouth.net

Up the Irons!
---------------------------
Scouting- Because Character counts
Duke of Dutch Ovens [DoDo]
vincentthedragon.com/klah/dutchovenfaq.htm
<'cause few know what a dutch oven is>
Priest in charge of the pastries
---------------------------
"The tears of a Dragon,
For you and for me."
-Bruce Dickinson
Re: Google in China [message #205118 ] So, 29 Januar 2006 23:28
Viriatha de Cordova  
Scott L wrote:

> Problem is, the Chinese government's very clear intent is censorship of
> anything and everything that could even *potentially* lead to people
> thinking differently from what the government tells them - and a hasty
> report to the government of those who (deliberately or accidentally -
> doesn't matter) do somehow get this access.

But isn't that up to the Chinese? What if the majority of them
WANT this government, then making it the result of democracy?

--
Lady Viriatha Atyriv de Cordova y Elenia

http://www.tdzk.com/

DC2.~Dw/H Gf L/- Cbl/fs Bfl A? Fr++(tomato)
Nu M++ O+++ H++ $ Fj/v~ R++ Ac++ J S+++ U
I V+++ Tc+ E+ <69 CPs> Keeper of the Tasty
Beverage, Niftian, Mistress of Multi-Tasking,
Friend to Sock Puppets Everywhere

Freedom is just a hallucination created by a pathological lack of
paranoia.
Re: Google in China [message #205119 ] So, 29 Januar 2006 23:29
Viriatha de Cordova  
v_dragon wrote:

>>Problem is, the Chinese government's very clear intent is censorship of
>>anything and everything that could even *potentially* lead to people
>>thinking differently from what the government tells them - and a hasty
>>report to the government of those who (deliberately or accidentally -
>>doesn't matter) do somehow get this access.
>>
>
> Even though it will be 'censored' there will still be an emense amount
> of information and other peoples ideals, alowing the Chinese peoples
> access to this knowledge I see as a good thing.

I think if it's a choice between internet censored or no internet
at all, I could agree.

--
Lady Viriatha Atyriv de Cordova y Elenia

http://www.tdzk.com/

DC2.~Dw/H Gf L/- Cbl/fs Bfl A? Fr++(tomato)
Nu M++ O+++ H++ $ Fj/v~ R++ Ac++ J S+++ U
I V+++ Tc+ E+ <69 CPs> Keeper of the Tasty
Beverage, Niftian, Mistress of Multi-Tasking,
Friend to Sock Puppets Everywhere

Freedom is just a hallucination created by a pathological lack of
paranoia.
Re: Google in China [message #205157 ] Mo, 30 Januar 2006 03:44
Gelgisith  
On Sunday, 29 January 12006, Lady Viriatha de Cordova
<viri_cordova [at] yahoo.com> scrawled:

> v_dragon wrote:

>>>Problem is, the Chinese government's very clear intent is censorship of
>>>anything and everything that could even *potentially* lead to people
>>>thinking differently from what the government tells them - and a hasty
>>>report to the government of those who (deliberately or accidentally -
>>>doesn't matter) do somehow get this access.
>> Even though it will be 'censored' there will still be an emense amount
>> of information and other peoples ideals, alowing the Chinese peoples
>> access to this knowledge I see as a good thing.

> I think if it's a choice between internet censored or no internet
> at all, I could agree.

Given that today's options are legal, censored internet for all &
illegal, uncensored internet for the daring, while tomorrow there may
only be legal, censored internet for all...including the daring, i think
i'll disagree.

Jan Dijkman (Gelgisith's human alter ego) 61% Dragon, 40% weird

"I wish that I could fly, Into the sky, So very high...
Like a Dragonfly" Lenny Kravitz - Fly Away
Re: Google in China [message #205171 ] Mo, 30 Januar 2006 05:53
Viriatha de Cordova  
Gelgisith wrote:

>>I think if it's a choice between internet censored or no internet
>>at all, I could agree.
>
>
> Given that today's options are legal, censored internet for all &
> illegal, uncensored internet for the daring, while tomorrow there may
> only be legal, censored internet for all...including the daring, i think
> i'll disagree.

I think I am glad I don't live somewhere like China, where those
are my options.

--
Lady Viriatha Atyriv de Cordova y Elenia

http://www.tdzk.com/

DC2.~Dw/H Gf L/- Cbl/fs Bfl A? Fr++(tomato)
Nu M++ O+++ H++ $ Fj/v~ R++ Ac++ J S+++ U
I V+++ Tc+ E+ <69 CPs> Keeper of the Tasty
Beverage, Niftian, Mistress of Multi-Tasking,
Friend to Sock Puppets Everywhere

Freedom is just a hallucination created by a pathological lack of
paranoia.
Re: Google in China [message #205192 ] Mo, 30 Januar 2006 13:50
Scott L  
On a dark and stormy night, Lady Viriatha de Cordova whispered:

> Scott L wrote:
>
> > Problem is, the Chinese government's very clear intent is
> > censorship of anything and everything that could even potentially
> > lead to people thinking differently from what the government tells
> > them - and a hasty report to the government of those who
> > (deliberately or accidentally - doesn't matter) do somehow get this
> > access.
>
> But isn't that up to the Chinese? What if the majority of them WANT
> this government, then making it the result of democracy?

Depends who you define as "the Chinese." The Chinese government
decides it for the Chinese populace, whether the populace wants it or
not, and then there's what happened the last time the populace stood up
for itself in general.

Just a Monkey,

Scott,

--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
Re: Google in China [message #205196 ] Mo, 30 Januar 2006 13:56
Viriatha de Cordova  
Scott L wrote:

>
> Depends who you define as "the Chinese." The Chinese government
> decides it for the Chinese populace, whether the populace wants it or
> not, and then there's what happened the last time the populace stood up
> for itself in general.

I've read several books on Chinese history and find that their
culture isn't really that democratic though.

--
Lady Viriatha Atyriv de Cordova y Elenia

http://www.tdzk.com/

DC2.~Dw/H Gf L/- Cbl/fs Bfl A? Fr++(tomato)
Nu M++ O+++ H++ $ Fj/v~ R++ Ac++ J S+++ U
I V+++ Tc+ E+ <69 CPs> Keeper of the Tasty
Beverage, Niftian, Mistress of Multi-Tasking,
Friend to Sock Puppets Everywhere

Freedom is just a hallucination created by a pathological lack of
paranoia.
Re: Google in China [message #213268 ] Di, 31 Januar 2006 05:08
Scott L  
On a dark and stormy night, Lady Viriatha de Cordova whispered:

> Scott L wrote:
>
> >
> > Depends who you define as "the Chinese." The Chinese government
> > decides it for the Chinese populace, whether the populace wants it
> > or not, and then there's what happened the last time the populace
> > stood up for itself in general.
>
> I've read several books on Chinese history and find that their
> culture isn't really that democratic though.

Despite the attempts by the general populace to the contrary.

Just a Monkey,

Scott,

--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
Re: Google in China [message #213280 ] Di, 31 Januar 2006 05:56
Viriatha de Cordova  
Scott L wrote:

>>I've read several books on Chinese history and find that their
>>culture isn't really that democratic though.
>
>
> Despite the attempts by the general populace to the contrary.

Actually, by what I read, the general populace has gotten power a
few times, and then promptly rejected democracy as no longer in
their interests lol

--
Lady Viriatha Atyriv de Cordova y Elenia

http://www.tdzk.com/

DC2.~Dw/H Gf L/- Cbl/fs Bfl A? Fr++(tomato)
Nu M++ O+++ H++ $ Fj/v~ R++ Ac++ J S+++ U
I V+++ Tc+ E+ <69 CPs> Keeper of the Tasty
Beverage, Niftian, Mistress of Multi-Tasking,
Friend to Sock Puppets Everywhere

Freedom is just a hallucination created by a pathological lack of
paranoia.
Re: Google in China [message #213406 ] Mi, 01 Februar 2006 04:45
Scott L  
On a dark and stormy night, Lady Viriatha de Cordova whispered:

> Scott L wrote:
>
> > > I've read several books on Chinese history and find that their
> > > culture isn't really that democratic though.
> >
> >
> > Despite the attempts by the general populace to the contrary.
>
> Actually, by what I read, the general populace has gotten power a few
> times, and then promptly rejected democracy as no longer in their
> interests lol

Those few times being crisis moments in their history, where an untried
method can seem suicidal compared the strengths of a known quantity.

Just a Monkey,

Scott,

--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
Re: Google in China [message #213427 ] Mi, 01 Februar 2006 11:52
Viriatha de Cordova  
Scott L wrote:
>>
>>Actually, by what I read, the general populace has gotten power a few
>>times, and then promptly rejected democracy as no longer in their
>>interests lol
>
>
> Those few times being crisis moments in their history, where an untried
> method can seem suicidal compared the strengths of a known quantity.

That wasn't what I read. Those in power enjoy power. Mao Tse Tung,
the leader and founder of communist China, was a peasant. His
revolution was one of peasants. Against democratic China no less.

--
Lady Viriatha Atyriv de Cordova y Elenia

http://www.tdzk.com/

DC2.~Dw/H Gf L/- Cbl/fs Bfl A? Fr++(tomato)
Nu M++ O+++ H++ $ Fj/v~ R++ Ac++ J S+++ U
I V+++ Tc+ E+ <69 CPs> Keeper of the Tasty
Beverage, Niftian, Mistress of Multi-Tasking,
Friend to Sock Puppets Everywhere

Freedom is just a hallucination created by a pathological lack of
paranoia.
Re: Google in China [message #213432 ] Mi, 01 Februar 2006 13:43
Scott L  
On a dark and stormy night, Lady Viriatha de Cordova whispered:

> Scott L wrote:
> > >
> > > Actually, by what I read, the general populace has gotten power a
> > > few times, and then promptly rejected democracy as no longer in
> > > their interests lol
> >
> >
> > Those few times being crisis moments in their history, where an
> > untried method can seem suicidal compared the strengths of a known
> > quantity.
>
> That wasn't what I read. Those in power enjoy power. Mao Tse Tung,
> the leader and founder of communist China, was a peasant. His
> revolution was one of peasants. Against democratic China no less.

That was one of those crisis moments. Consider when it happened and
what was going on. Also consider that was *not* a democratic
government he was fighting.

Just a Monkey,

Scott,

--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
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