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Fantasy » alt.fan.dragons » The Tenth Planet
The Tenth Planet [message #202408] So, 15 Januar 2006 21:40
Draco18s  
The solar system now has a tenth planet. Saw a short article about it in
Newsweek or something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_UB313 (this shows that it really isn't new
news either)
Wonder what they'll name it.
Re: The Tenth Planet [message #202409 ] So, 15 Januar 2006 22:00
Scott L  
On a dark and stormy night, Draco18s whispered:

> The solar system now has a tenth planet. Saw a short article about
> it in Newsweek or something.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_UB313 (this shows that it really
> isn't new news either)
> Wonder what they'll name it.

Interesting. This means we may actually have nine planets after all
(there's currently a growing debate whether or not Pluto should remain
a planet, due to its wildly eliptical orbit).

Just a Monkey,

Scott,

--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
Re: The Tenth Planet [message #202413 ] So, 15 Januar 2006 22:40
Samurai  
Quoth "Scott L" <spamtrap644 [at] insightbb.com>:
....
> (there's currently a growing debate whether or not Pluto
> should remain a planet, due to its wildly eliptical orbit).

And rather smaller than originally estimated size. :) There are
several other Kuiper Belt objects that might not be much smaller than
Pluto.

--

_________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) ~~ Rai ~~ O .---. . F
| \ \ o / O> \/| i
\ `^--^ DC2.De Gm L W-- T Phflt Sks Cbk,sbk o \_. /\| s
\ \ \ Bwi A Fr++ M R Ac J++ I-- V Q++ Tc+ `---' ` h
ksj ^--^ _________________________________________________________
Re: The Tenth Planet [message #202414 ] Mo, 16 Januar 2006 00:40
darkside  
Rai <nospam [at] dev.nul> writes:

> Quoth "Scott L" <spamtrap644 [at] insightbb.com>:
> ...
>> (there's currently a growing debate whether or not Pluto
>> should remain a planet, due to its wildly eliptical orbit).
>
> And rather smaller than originally estimated size. :) There are
> several other Kuiper Belt objects that might not be much smaller than
> Pluto.

Indeed; by my count we are up to either 12 or 8 planets.

if Pluto is a planet, then 90377 Sedna, 50000 Quaoar, and 2003 UB313
"Xena" are probably also planets. If Pluto isn't a planet, then those
probably aren't either, leaving us with just the 4 terrestrial and 4
jovian planets.

Personally, I think we should go with the 8 planet scheme, because that
gives us two nice classes of 'planet' -- terrestrial or jovian. Then we
can just call Pluto a KBO and be done with it. But that's just my
opinion, and I'm no astronomer ;)

--
darkside

DC2.D Gm L W-- T- Pvw Sks,wl Cwh- Bwa A(r-v++) Fr^++"pomegranate" Nw M +++!
H++ $- Fv+++! R++ Ac~ J++ S U I--# V++ Q+ Tc++ E++

Homepage: http://silenceisdefeat.org/~darkside
Email: darksidex at charter dot net
Re: The Tenth Planet [message #202415 ] Mo, 16 Januar 2006 01:11
Kalos Kalyre  
Draco18s wrote:
> The solar system now has a tenth planet. Saw a short article about it in
> Newsweek or something.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_UB313 (this shows that it really isn't new
> news either)
> Wonder what they'll name it.

I wonder how many other possible tenth planets we've found so far. I can
think of one, off the top of my head, by the name of Sedna.

--
-Kalos

Peace and peppermint cheesecake to all.

Bearer of one Pickaxe of Icebreaking from Flame Stryke.

DC2.Dw Gm L- W-- T Phwaplt Sks,wl,bh Cja-\bz,v~ Bfl A- Fr- N? M--- O H++
$~ F+~ R* Ac++ J+ S---! U- I---# V-- Q---! Tc++[QBASIC] E+
The Dragon Classification Project calls me a: class Xenosauria
(xeno=strange, saur=lizard), subclass Pterosauria (Lizard Dragon), order
Squamadraconia (Scales Dragon), suborder Draconia (Western Dragon),
family Pterodraconia (General Western Dragon), genus [unnamed; finned,
spiked, serpentine in width], species {genus name} parvus (parvus=small)

See my art at http://kaloskalyre.deviantart.com/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to
build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to
produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
-Rich Cook
Re: The Tenth Planet [message #202419 ] Mo, 16 Januar 2006 05:09
Scott L  
On a dark and stormy night, Kalos Kalyre whispered:

> Draco18s wrote:
> > The solar system now has a tenth planet. Saw a short article about
> > it in Newsweek or something.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_UB313 (this shows that it really
> > isn't new news either)
> > Wonder what they'll name it.
>
> I wonder how many other possible tenth planets we've found so far. I
> can think of one, off the top of my head, by the name of Sedna.

Interesting name, Sedna. Ever heard the mythological background for
that one?

Just a Monkey,

Scott,

--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
Re: The Tenth Planet [message #202420 ] Mo, 16 Januar 2006 07:03
Kalos Kalyre  
Scott L wrote:
> On a dark and stormy night, Kalos Kalyre whispered:
>
>>>The solar system now has a tenth planet. Saw a short article about
>>>it in Newsweek or something.
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_UB313 (this shows that it really
>>>isn't new news either)
>>>Wonder what they'll name it.
>>
>>I wonder how many other possible tenth planets we've found so far. I
>>can think of one, off the top of my head, by the name of Sedna.
>
>
> Interesting name, Sedna. Ever heard the mythological background for
> that one?
>

I've heard it and forgotten it.


--
-Kalos

Peace and peppermint cheesecake to all.

Bearer of one Pickaxe of Icebreaking from Flame Stryke.

DC2.Dw Gm L- W-- T Phwaplt Sks,wl,bh Cja-\bz,v~ Bfl A- Fr- N? M--- O H++
$~ F+~ R* Ac++ J+ S---! U- I---# V-- Q---! Tc++[QBASIC] E+
The Dragon Classification Project calls me a: class Xenosauria
(xeno=strange, saur=lizard), subclass Pterosauria (Lizard Dragon), order
Squamadraconia (Scales Dragon), suborder Draconia (Western Dragon),
family Pterodraconia (General Western Dragon), genus [unnamed; finned,
spiked, serpentine in width], species {genus name} parvus (parvus=small)

See my art at http://kaloskalyre.deviantart.com/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to
build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to
produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
-Rich Cook
Re: The Tenth Planet [message #202421 ] Mo, 16 Januar 2006 08:00
Pyros Rutilicus  
At Mon, 16 Jan 2006 06:03:25 GMT, Kalos Kalyre <kaloskalyre [at] comcast.net>
hissed:

> Scott L wrote:
>> On a dark and stormy night, Kalos Kalyre whispered:
>>
>>>>The solar system now has a tenth planet. Saw a short article about
>>>>it in Newsweek or something.
>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_UB313 (this shows that it really
>>>>isn't new news either)
>>>>Wonder what they'll name it.
>>>
>>>I wonder how many other possible tenth planets we've found so far. I
>>>can think of one, off the top of my head, by the name of Sedna.
>>
>>
>> Interesting name, Sedna. Ever heard the mythological background for
>> that one?
>>
>
> I've heard it and forgotten it.

"Because of its cold, distant nature, and because all other planets of
the Solar system are named after (Roman and Greek) gods, the scientists
who discovered it unofficially named it after Sedna, the Inuit goddess of
the sea, who was believed to live in the cold depths of the Arctic
Ocean....As of September 28, 2004, the International Astronomical Union
has officially accepted the name 'Sedna'."
--from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/90377_Sedna

Sedna the goddess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedna_%28deity%29

--
Pyros Rutilicus
---------------
DC2.Dw~ Gm L40f75w W- T- Sks,wl Cre-,eau Bfl A Fr++ Nm R+ Ac++ J+ Tc++ E-
Proud Owner of One Ponder Point
Scales protect many times better than flesh, but ironically, as long as
I wear this flesh I am safe, whereas if I were to show my true self I
would be vulnerable...
"Thoughts of [an annoying human] still make my teeth itch."
--D. J. Heinrich, The Dragon's Tomb
Re: The Tenth Planet [message #202422 ] Mo, 16 Januar 2006 08:23
Pyros Rutilicus  
At Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:40:33 GMT, darkside <darkside [at] no.spam.see.sig>
hissed:

> Rai <nospam [at] dev.nul> writes:
>
>> Quoth "Scott L" <spamtrap644 [at] insightbb.com>:
>> ...
>>> (there's currently a growing debate whether or not Pluto
>>> should remain a planet, due to its wildly eliptical orbit).
>>
>> And rather smaller than originally estimated size. :) There are
>> several other Kuiper Belt objects that might not be much smaller than
>> Pluto.
>
> Indeed; by my count we are up to either 12 or 8 planets.
>
> if Pluto is a planet, then 90377 Sedna, 50000 Quaoar, and 2003 UB313
> "Xena" are probably also planets. If Pluto isn't a planet, then those
> probably aren't either, leaving us with just the 4 terrestrial and 4
> jovian planets.
>
> Personally, I think we should go with the 8 planet scheme, because
> that gives us two nice classes of 'planet' -- terrestrial or jovian.
> Then we can just call Pluto a KBO and be done with it. But that's
> just my opinion, and I'm no astronomer ;)

Well, it's not really well defined what makes a "planet." It's possible
the IAU will at some point put forth a coherent definition, but right
now it seems that what is a "planet" is defined as much by tradition and
socially as anything else. Pluto is a planet, and the others aren't,
simply because we all grew up learning about the *nine* planets in
grade-school science classes.

All three of the ones you mention have been claimed to be "the tenth
planet"--Charon as well, with some arguing that it forms a double-planet
system with Pluto rather than being a moon. And, as you point out, each
has at least a halfway decent claim to planethood--2003 UB313 is even
larger than Pluto.

Barring any decree from the IAU, however, I suspect that planethood will
continue to be defined by culture as a whole. If kids 30 years from now
learn the 10 planets in school (including, say, Sedna), then Pluto and
Sedna will be planets, and the others won't, and people will continue to
have arguments about what the 11th planet may or may not be. ]:-8)~

--
Pyros Rutilicus
---------------
DC2.Dw~ Gm L40f75w W- T- Sks,wl Cre-,eau Bfl A Fr++ Nm R+ Ac++ J+ Tc++
E- Proud Owner of One Ponder Point
Scales protect many times better than flesh, but ironically, as long as
I wear this flesh I am safe, whereas if I were to show my true self I
would be vulnerable...
"Thoughts of [an annoying human] still make my teeth itch."
--D. J. Heinrich, The Dragon's Tomb
Re: The Tenth Planet [message #202425 ] Mo, 16 Januar 2006 13:28
Scott L  
On a dark and stormy night, Pyros Rutilicus whispered:

> At Mon, 16 Jan 2006 06:03:25 GMT, Kalos Kalyre
> <kaloskalyre [at] comcast.net> hissed:
>
> > Scott L wrote:
> >> On a dark and stormy night, Kalos Kalyre whispered:
> > >
> > > > > The solar system now has a tenth planet. Saw a short article
> > > > > about it in Newsweek or something.
> > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_UB313 (this shows that it
> > > > > really isn't new news either)
> > > > > Wonder what they'll name it.
> > > >
> > > > I wonder how many other possible tenth planets we've found so
> > > > far. I can think of one, off the top of my head, by the name of
> > > > Sedna.
> >>
> >>
> >> Interesting name, Sedna. Ever heard the mythological background
> for >> that one?
> >>
> >
> > I've heard it and forgotten it.
>
> "Because of its cold, distant nature, and because all other planets
> of the Solar system are named after (Roman and Greek) gods, the
> scientists who discovered it unofficially named it after Sedna, the
> Inuit goddess of the sea, who was believed to live in the cold depths
> of the Arctic Ocean....As of September 28, 2004, the International
> Astronomical Union has officially accepted the name 'Sedna'."
> --from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/90377_Sedna
>
> Sedna the goddess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedna_%28deity%29

Cheater! lol

I learned it from (of all things) a filk cd. The artist did a song
titled "Sedna" and it was about what happened to make Sedna what she
is. The story goes she and her father were on a boat, the seas became
rough, and she fell out. Because those boats were extremely unstable,
and her father feared it would capsize and kill him as well, he pushed
her away as she struggled to climb back in. Eventually she lost the
fight and sank to the depths. As the cold numbed her, her fingers fell
off and they became the creatures of the northern seas to keep her
company. All that from the insert's explanation of the song.

Just a Monkey,

Scott,

--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
Re: The Tenth Planet [message #204632 ] Mo, 16 Januar 2006 22:49
Draco18s  
In article <Xns974CEDCDE27F4pyrosrutilicushotmai [at] 207.115.17.102>,
pyrosrutilicusNO [at] gmailSPAM.comORIWILLEATYOU says...
>At Sun, 15 Jan 2006 23:40:33 GMT, darkside <darkside [at] no.spam.see.sig>
>hissed:
>
>> Rai <nospam [at] dev.nul> writes:
>>
>>> Quoth "Scott L" <spamtrap644 [at] insightbb.com>:
>>> ...
>>>> (there's currently a growing debate whether or not Pluto
>>>> should remain a planet, due to its wildly eliptical orbit).
>>>
>>> And rather smaller than originally estimated size. :) There are
>>> several other Kuiper Belt objects that might not be much smaller than
>>> Pluto.
>>
>> Indeed; by my count we are up to either 12 or 8 planets.
>>
>> if Pluto is a planet, then 90377 Sedna, 50000 Quaoar, and 2003 UB313
>> "Xena" are probably also planets. If Pluto isn't a planet, then those
>> probably aren't either, leaving us with just the 4 terrestrial and 4
>> jovian planets.
>>
>> Personally, I think we should go with the 8 planet scheme, because
>> that gives us two nice classes of 'planet' -- terrestrial or jovian.
>> Then we can just call Pluto a KBO and be done with it. But that's
>> just my opinion, and I'm no astronomer ;)
>
>Well, it's not really well defined what makes a "planet." It's possible
>the IAU will at some point put forth a coherent definition, but right
>now it seems that what is a "planet" is defined as much by tradition and
>socially as anything else. Pluto is a planet, and the others aren't,
>simply because we all grew up learning about the *nine* planets in
>grade-school science classes.
>
>All three of the ones you mention have been claimed to be "the tenth
>planet"--Charon as well, with some arguing that it forms a double-planet
>system with Pluto rather than being a moon. And, as you point out, each
>has at least a halfway decent claim to planethood--2003 UB313 is even
>larger than Pluto.

I think currently it's anything spherical held together by it's own gravity
and is at least as large as Pluto is.
Pulling from Wikipedia:
"...three general criteria: that it must orbit a star, be above a certain size
(usually large enough to be rounded by its own gravity), and yet not be large
enough to commence nuclear fusion..._Size_...The most oft-mooted potential
(lower) limit is when an object becomes spherical under its own
gravity...Others have suggested that the diameter limit be arbitrarily pinned
at that of Pluto, thus preserving the traditional nine planets while allowing
the possibility of future additions, while others have suggested that it be
fixed at 1000 km, just below Pluto's, which would potentially define at least
three smaller KBOs as planets alongside it."

>Barring any decree from the IAU, however, I suspect that planethood will
>continue to be defined by culture as a whole.

Most likely.

>If kids 30 years from now
>learn the 10 planets in school (including, say, Sedna), then Pluto and
>Sedna will be planets, and the others won't, and people will continue to
>have arguments about what the 11th planet may or may not be. ]:-8)~

Sedna is two thirds the size of Pluto, so if Pluto is the lower limit in size,
Sedna is *not* a planet. However, it isn't even the next largest thing after
Pluto either. "It is now generally believed to be the 5th largest known
trans-Neptunian object after 2003 UB313, Pluto, 2005 FY9, and 2003 EL61."
(Wikipedia). There are two more TNO before Sedna that would be designates as
planets first (assuming they have the proper shape, and it looks like EL61
does not--is spins too quickly).
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