| SUNPYG Guitar Overdubs [message #200900] |
Fr, 13 Januar 2006 01:41 |
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Am I misremembering that Frank had Steve Vai double some of the lead
guitar parts on SUNPYG? I'm thinking particularly that this occurred on
at least one of the three title cuts. Or was this an experiment that
wasn't released? Or is it that I finally cannot differentiate fantasy
from reality any more? ;)
I'm familiar with his overdubbage on YAWYI (esp. on Sinister Footwear),
so I don't think that I am confusing it with that. And I wasn't left
with the impression from the interview that I think I read that the
overdubbage was an attempt to fix or replace any of Frank's parts, it's
just that Frank was interested in hearing the result.
Bill
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| Re: SUNPYG Guitar Overdubs [message #200901 ] |
Fr, 13 Januar 2006 02:43 |
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Bill wrote:
> Am I misremembering that Frank had Steve Vai double some of the lead
> guitar parts on SUNPYG?
There has been talk of this, but never a confirmation that any
Vai-doubled performances were released on the album. I doubt it, since
it's very easy to hear the difference between Vai and FZ on Sinister
Footwear III (Vai's attack is clean while all of FZ's string scrapes
and other weirdnesses were left in) and I've never noticed a similar
disparity on anything from SUNPYG. OTOH, it's been a while since I've
listened to it on headphones.
BTW, one of the session sheets Charles Ulrich and Greg Russo found
included a report that FZ had O'Hearn overdub a new bass track on
Treacherous Cretins, but this doesn't seem to have been released
either.
Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
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| Re: SUNPYG Guitar Overdubs [message #200902 ] |
Fr, 13 Januar 2006 02:58 |
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In article <1137116592.909274.238720 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> > Am I misremembering that Frank had Steve Vai double some of the lead
> > guitar parts on SUNPYG?
>
> There has been talk of this, but never a confirmation that any
> Vai-doubled performances were released on the album. I doubt it, since
> it's very easy to hear the difference between Vai and FZ on Sinister
> Footwear III (Vai's attack is clean while all of FZ's string scrapes
> and other weirdnesses were left in) and I've never noticed a similar
> disparity on anything from SUNPYG. OTOH, it's been a while since I've
> listened to it on headphones.
>
> BTW, one of the session sheets Charles Ulrich and Greg Russo found
> included a report that FZ had O'Hearn overdub a new bass track on
> Treacherous Cretins, but this doesn't seem to have been released
> either.
>
> Pat Buzby
> Chicago, IL
Thanks, Pat. I don't think I ever listened to SUNPYG on headphones. The
last time I listened to it was in the car - not the ideal listening
condition.
I wouldn't mind if Joe's Corsaga, once it gets into the later years,
includes odd items like the Patrick O'Hearn overdub that only we
fetishists would care to listen to. I like O'Hearn's playing.
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| Re: SUNPYG Guitar Overdubs [message #200903 ] |
Fr, 13 Januar 2006 03:09 |
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In article <spamblock-1452AE.19384412012006 [at] news.verizon.net>,
Bill <spamblock [at] verizon.net> wrote:
> Am I misremembering that Frank had Steve Vai double some of the lead
> guitar parts on SUNPYG? I'm thinking particularly that this occurred on
> at least one of the three title cuts. Or was this an experiment that
> wasn't released? Or is it that I finally cannot differentiate fantasy
> from reality any more? ;)
I think it was The Deathless Horsie, but I don't know whether Vai's
doubling of FZ's solo was included in the released version or not.
Nor do I remember where I read about this. But I think it may have been
a Vai interview rather than an FZ interview.
--Charles
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| Re: SUNPYG Guitar Overdubs [message #200908 ] |
Fr, 13 Januar 2006 03:37 |
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In article <ulrich-F8084F.18100312012006 [at] shawnews>,
Charles Ulrich <ulrich [at] sfu.ca> wrote:
> In article <spamblock-1452AE.19384412012006 [at] news.verizon.net>,
> Bill <spamblock [at] verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Am I misremembering that Frank had Steve Vai double some of the lead
> > guitar parts on SUNPYG? I'm thinking particularly that this occurred on
> > at least one of the three title cuts. Or was this an experiment that
> > wasn't released? Or is it that I finally cannot differentiate fantasy
> > from reality any more? ;)
>
> I think it was The Deathless Horsie, but I don't know whether Vai's
> doubling of FZ's solo was included in the released version or not.
>
> Nor do I remember where I read about this. But I think it may have been
> a Vai interview rather than an FZ interview.
>
> --Charles
I'm having trouble remembering too - Vai is an excellent guess. I was
thinking, if not Vai, maybe an interview with one of Frank's engineers.
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| Re: SUNPYG Guitar Overdubs [message #200916 ] |
Fr, 13 Januar 2006 05:17 |
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Vai transcribed the SUNPYG albums.
Bill wrote:
> In article <ulrich-F8084F.18100312012006 [at] shawnews>,
> Charles Ulrich <ulrich [at] sfu.ca> wrote:
>
> > In article <spamblock-1452AE.19384412012006 [at] news.verizon.net>,
> > Bill <spamblock [at] verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Am I misremembering that Frank had Steve Vai double some of the lead
> > > guitar parts on SUNPYG? I'm thinking particularly that this occurred on
> > > at least one of the three title cuts. Or was this an experiment that
> > > wasn't released? Or is it that I finally cannot differentiate fantasy
> > > from reality any more? ;)
> >
> > I think it was The Deathless Horsie, but I don't know whether Vai's
> > doubling of FZ's solo was included in the released version or not.
> >
> > Nor do I remember where I read about this. But I think it may have been
> > a Vai interview rather than an FZ interview.
> >
> > --Charles
>
> I'm having trouble remembering too - Vai is an excellent guess. I was
> thinking, if not Vai, maybe an interview with one of Frank's engineers.
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| Re: SUNPYG Guitar Overdubs [message #207768 ] |
Sa, 21 Januar 2006 23:13 |
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Bill <spamblock [at] verizon.net> wrote in news:spamblock-
1452AE.19384412012006 [at] news.verizon.net:
> Am I misremembering that Frank had Steve Vai double some of the lead
> guitar parts on SUNPYG? I'm thinking particularly that this occurred on
> at least one of the three title cuts. Or was this an experiment that
> wasn't released? Or is it that I finally cannot differentiate fantasy
> from reality any more? ;)
> I'm familiar with his overdubbage on YAWYI (esp. on Sinister Footwear),
> so I don't think that I am confusing it with that. And I wasn't left
> with the impression from the interview that I think I read that the
> overdubbage was an attempt to fix or replace any of Frank's parts, it's
> just that Frank was interested in hearing the result.
>
> Bill
I got in an argument with some guy over on the zappa.com forum about this
a few years ago. I was convinced then and am still convinced that the
released version of Deathless Horsie has Steve doubling Frank's guitar.
You can read the interview in which Steve states this to be true here:
http://www.mulhern.com/articles/vai1983.htm
About 1/3 the way down the page, you can read this:
Q: How did you make the transition from transcribing for Frank to playing
for him in the band?
A: Well, I transcribed a song called "The Deathless Horsie" ["Shut Up 'N
Play Yer Guitar Some More"], and Frank asked me to learn it on the
guitar. He knew I played guitar because I'd sent him a tape he'd said he
liked. So I told him I'd try. I learned the song, and I guess it was
pretty good because he used it on the record and went into the studio and
doubled the original guitar part. And if you listen to the album, you can
hear two guitars - I'm playing exactly the same part as Frank; I doubled
the solo. You can hear the distinction, though. So when that happened,
Frank had written a piece which turned into "The Second Movement Of The
Sinister Footwear". It sort of looks like the other transcriptions looked
- really weird. I learned that, and I think he was impressed with it. So,
he asked me if I'd do some overdubs for "You Are What You Is". So I ended
up redoing about 80% of the guitars on the album. He had me down to
rehearsal, and I got the gig.
Anyway... as to the argument on zappa.com... I stated that Vai doubled
the guitar part on TDH... another guy stated it never happened. I
mentioned this interview, but I couldn't reproduce a copy of it at the
time. I also provided a side-by-side comparison of the left and right
channels of the track in question detailing what I believe to be enough
inconsistency between the two tracks to suggest that the part was in fact
doubled.
Not content to be shown wrong, the other guy got in touch with Vai's
webmaster who said it never happened. When I refused to take the word of
Vai's webmaster as ultimate authority on the matter, the other guy
pressed the webmaster to ask Vai, himself. The response was given that
the webmaster asked Vai, and Vai said he never did it.
Meanwhile... I got in touch with Tom Mulhern and asked him about the
interview and why in the interview Vai said he did do it but is now
saying he didn't do it. Tom provided me with enough info about how he
conducted the interview and the steps taken to make sure Vai was happy
with the interview before it was published to convince me that at the
time, Vai stated that he did double the part. Tom also asked to be left
out of the argument and stated that he, himself, would take Steve's
current position on the issue as fact rather than argue about what was
said at the time of the interview.
You can read the aforementioned argument on zappa.com in these two
threads:
http://www.zappa.com/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=rant;action=display;num=
1053651345;start=30
http://www.zappa.com/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=rant;action=display;num=
1054299998;start=
I was posting as Do-Do Mite.
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