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Music / Musik » alt.fan.frank-zappa » What Phil said about Frank.....
What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200820] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 05:16
kombi45  
Just reading Phil Lesh's book _Searching for the Sound_ and Phil has
this to say about FZ:

"I've always Zappa as a part of a long line of true composers, whose
individual visions are so powerful that they must be manifested as
purely as possible, a true successor to his hero, Edgar Varese."

I have a taped interview (over three hours) with Frank from Society
Pages, I guess, circa '89 in which he was asked what he thought about
The Dead and Deadheads to which he responded:

"They're OK."

Mutual respect abounded!

SCd
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200821 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 05:32
Shhhh  
<kombi45 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136953009.237571.267420 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Just reading Phil Lesh's book _Searching for the Sound_ and Phil has
> this to say about FZ:
>
> "I've always Zappa as a part of a long line of true composers, whose
> individual visions are so powerful that they must be manifested as
> purely as possible, a true successor to his hero, Edgar Varese."
>
> I have a taped interview (over three hours) with Frank from Society
> Pages, I guess, circa '89 in which he was asked what he thought about
> The Dead and Deadheads to which he responded:
>
> "They're OK."
>
> Mutual respect abounded!
>
> SCd
>

and from what I hear, a coin flip determined that JGB would open for FZ at
the U. of I. Pavillion in Chicago on 8-18-84.
--
Peace,
Steve
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200822 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 05:55
bzlrbi  
<kombi45 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136953009.237571.267420 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Just reading Phil Lesh's book _Searching for the Sound_ and Phil has
> this to say about FZ:
>
> "I've always Zappa as a part of a long line of true composers, whose
> individual visions are so powerful that they must be manifested as
> purely as possible, a true successor to his hero, Edgar Varese."
>

**Did Varese employ munchkins singing dumbass lyrics, too?

> I have a taped interview (over three hours) with Frank from Society
> Pages, I guess, circa '89 in which he was asked what he thought about
> The Dead and Deadheads to which he responded:
>
> "They're OK."
>
> Mutual respect abounded!
>
> SCd
>
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200823 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 05:55
Frunobulax  
> Did Varese employ munchkins singing dumbass lyrics, too?

No. Varese was more repressed. Poor bastard.

NP: Savannah - Marc Ribot
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200824 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 07:16
Lfh  
kombi45 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> I have a taped interview (over three hours) with Frank from Society
> Pages, I guess, circa '89 in which he was asked what he thought about
> The Dead and Deadheads to which he responded:
>
> "They're OK."
>
> Mutual respect abounded!

LOL. Yeah, he has a long history of being underwhelmed by the Dead and
the whole hippie scene.

Fred
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200825 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 08:01
Poot Rootbeer  
"Bzl." <bzlrbi [at] aol.com> wrote:
> **Did Varese employ munchkins singing dumbass lyrics, too?

According to a recording of Offrandes I have heard, yes, possibly.

-Poot
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200829 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 12:42
Olompali4  
>and from what I hear, a coin flip determined that JGB would open for FZ at
>the U. of I. Pavillion in Chicago on 8-18-84.
--
>Peace,
>Steve <<

I was there. Jerry jammed, we danced. Frank sang a lot. Some guy
behind us wearing a bunch of prog band pins on his leather jacket puked
all over his row. Everyone moved.
I think this was the Tinseltown Rebellion Zappa. Lots of words,
speeches lost in the acoustics.
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200830 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 13:53
volkfolk  
"Lfh" <onetaste2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136960160.215115.264640 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> kombi45 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>> I have a taped interview (over three hours) with Frank from Society
>> Pages, I guess, circa '89 in which he was asked what he thought about
>> The Dead and Deadheads to which he responded:
>>
>> "They're OK."
>>
>> Mutual respect abounded!
>
> LOL. Yeah, he has a long history of being underwhelmed by the Dead and
> the whole hippie scene.

Frank was notoriously underwhelmed by most musicians. He used to have a
column in some music mag (Musician? Downbeat?) where he talked about the
issues that he had when trying to record symphonic pieces. Orchestras drove
him particularly nuts. Genesis Drummer Chester Thompson said that Frank was
a ballbuster of a boss to work for and that his music was the most difficult
music he ever played.

A band that I used to play bass in used to do "Peaches En Regalia" and I can
tell you that it was definitely one of the most difficult pieces of music I
have ever played. It took a good 4-5 hours of rehearsal (spread out over
three or four rehearsals, not in one session) to learn it, and then we had
to play it every rehearsal to stay on top of it.

Definitely far more difficult than anything in the Dead catalogue

Scot
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200831 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 14:26
minnehaha  
"volkfolk" <volkfolk [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:n6qdnWwQEqxLYlneRVn-pw [at] comcast.com...
>
> "Lfh" <onetaste2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1136960160.215115.264640 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> kombi45 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>> I have a taped interview (over three hours) with Frank from Society
>>> Pages, I guess, circa '89 in which he was asked what he thought about
>>> The Dead and Deadheads to which he responded:
>>>
>>> "They're OK."
>>>
>>> Mutual respect abounded!
>>
>> LOL. Yeah, he has a long history of being underwhelmed by the Dead and
>> the whole hippie scene.
>
> Frank was notoriously underwhelmed by most musicians. He used to have a
> column in some music mag (Musician? Downbeat?) where he talked about the
> issues that he had when trying to record symphonic pieces. Orchestras
> drove him particularly nuts. Genesis Drummer Chester Thompson said that
> Frank was a ballbuster of a boss to work for and that his music was the
> most difficult music he ever played.
>
> A band that I used to play bass in used to do "Peaches En Regalia" and I
> can tell you that it was definitely one of the most difficult pieces of
> music I have ever played. It took a good 4-5 hours of rehearsal (spread
> out over three or four rehearsals, not in one session) to learn it, and
> then we had to play it every rehearsal to stay on top of it.
>
> Definitely far more difficult than anything in the Dead catalogue


Yeah, and that's one of Frank's "easier" tunes. Imagine trying to learn
Zomby Woof or RDNZL.
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200832 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 14:44
Shhhh  
On 2006-01-11 20:42:23 +0900, "Olompali4" <Olompali4 [at] aol.com> said:

>> and from what I hear, a coin flip determined that JGB would open for FZ at
>> the U. of I. Pavillion in Chicago on 8-18-84.
> --
>> Peace,
>> Steve <<
>
> I was there. Jerry jammed, we danced. Frank sang a lot. Some guy
> behind us wearing a bunch of prog band pins on his leather jacket puked
> all over his row. Everyone moved.
> I think this was the Tinseltown Rebellion Zappa. Lots of words,
> speeches lost in the acoustics.

yeah, i was there too (I was a student at uic, we camped out and bought
up the first few rows center) but FZ didn't do a lot for me that night.
i liked him better in a theater setting such as the times i saw him at
the uptown in chicago and at the warner in dc.
--
Peace,
Steve
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200833 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 15:01
bradish  
"volkfolk" <volkfolk [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:n6qdnWwQEqxLYlneRVn-pw [at] comcast.com...

<snip>
> him particularly nuts. Genesis Drummer Chester Thompson said that Frank
> was
<snip>

Excuse my lack of Genesis history knowledge, but what did Phil Collins play
with Genesis?
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200834 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 15:09
Dan Rowan  
"volkfolk" <volkfolk [at] comcast.net> wrote in
news:n6qdnWwQEqxLYlneRVn-pw [at] comcast.com:


>
> A band that I used to play bass in used to do "Peaches En Regalia" and
> I can tell you that it was definitely one of the most difficult pieces
> of music I have ever played. It took a good 4-5 hours of rehearsal
> (spread out over three or four rehearsals, not in one session) to
> learn it, and then we had to play it every rehearsal to stay on top of
> it.
>
> Definitely far more difficult than anything in the Dead catalogue
>
> Scot
Just because the Dead's music may not be as complex as Frank's doesn't
invalidate them. There are days when I'd much rather hear China Cat
Sunflower than Peaches, but I still enjoy both.
>
>
>
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200835 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 15:16
volkfolk  
"bradish" <bradish1964 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:adudnZA7iZ8AkljeRVn-gw [at] comcast.com...
>
> "volkfolk" <volkfolk [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:n6qdnWwQEqxLYlneRVn-pw [at] comcast.com...
>
> <snip>
>> him particularly nuts. Genesis Drummer Chester Thompson said that Frank
>> was
> <snip>
>
> Excuse my lack of Genesis history knowledge, but what did Phil Collins
> play with Genesis?

Phil played drums with Genesis when Peter Gabriel was in the band

When Peter Gabriel left the band (Selling England By The Pound was PG's last
album) Phil became the lead singer. They decided to add a second drummer so
that Phil could front the band. Bill Bruford did a brief stint with them,
and then the hired Chester Thompson, who had done a stint playing with
Zappa. Collins still played drums on the instrumental sections. "Los Endos"
was a prime example of serious drum interplay.

"Seconds Out" the live Album features both Bruford and CT

Scot
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200836 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 15:21
pbuzby2002  
bradish wrote:
> "volkfolk" <volkfolk [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:n6qdnWwQEqxLYlneRVn-pw [at] comcast.com...
>
> <snip>
> > him particularly nuts. Genesis Drummer Chester Thompson said that Frank
> > was
> <snip>
>
> Excuse my lack of Genesis history knowledge, but what did Phil Collins play
> with Genesis?

Phil played drums. When he became their lead singer they used other
drummers onstage(Chester filled this role from '77 to '92) so that Phil
didn't have to sing from behind the drums. Phil and Chester both
played when Phil wasn't busy singing.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200837 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 15:30
bzlrbi  
"bradish" <bradish1964 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:adudnZA7iZ8AkljeRVn-gw [at] comcast.com...
>
> "volkfolk" <volkfolk [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:n6qdnWwQEqxLYlneRVn-pw [at] comcast.com...
>
> <snip>
> > him particularly nuts. Genesis Drummer Chester Thompson said that Frank
> > was
> <snip>
>
> Excuse my lack of Genesis history knowledge, but what did Phil Collins
play
> with Genesis?
>

Drums. Chester was the tour drummer (and perhaps studio also? I largely
lost interest after Gabriel left), so Phil could concentrate on crooning out
front.
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200838 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 15:34
pbuzby2002  
volkfolk wrote:

> When Peter Gabriel left the band (Selling England By The Pound was PG's last
> album)

Correction - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway was PG's last. To answer
Bzl's post, Phil was their only drummer in the studio. Bruford and
Thompson only played with the band onstage.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200839 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 15:37
volkfolk  
"Christopher Rivers" <not [at] here.netINVALID> wrote in message
news:Xns97485DBFD2C2crivershvcrrcom [at] 66.150.105.230...
> "volkfolk" <volkfolk [at] comcast.net> wrote in
> news:n6qdnWwQEqxLYlneRVn-pw [at] comcast.com:
>
>
>>
>> A band that I used to play bass in used to do "Peaches En Regalia" and
>> I can tell you that it was definitely one of the most difficult pieces
>> of music I have ever played. It took a good 4-5 hours of rehearsal
>> (spread out over three or four rehearsals, not in one session) to
>> learn it, and then we had to play it every rehearsal to stay on top of
>> it.
>>
>> Definitely far more difficult than anything in the Dead catalogue
>>
>> Scot
> Just because the Dead's music may not be as complex as Frank's doesn't
> invalidate them. There are days when I'd much rather hear China Cat
> Sunflower than Peaches, but I still enjoy both.

What in my post made you think that I think that there is anything "invalid"
about their music? I love the Dead, they are my favorite band, I saw them
over 80+ times with Jerry, and probably another 15-20 post Garcia variants
of the Dead
(TOO, P&F's, The Dead, Ratdog, Further Festival etc)

Scot
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200840 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 15:48
Dan Rowan  
"volkfolk" <volkfolk [at] comcast.net> wrote in
news:99WdneqUVLuPhVjeRVn-gA [at] comcast.com:

>
> "Christopher Rivers" <not [at] here.netINVALID> wrote in message
> news:Xns97485DBFD2C2crivershvcrrcom [at] 66.150.105.230...
>> "volkfolk" <volkfolk [at] comcast.net> wrote in
>> news:n6qdnWwQEqxLYlneRVn-pw [at] comcast.com:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> A band that I used to play bass in used to do "Peaches En Regalia"
>>> and I can tell you that it was definitely one of the most difficult
>>> pieces of music I have ever played. It took a good 4-5 hours of
>>> rehearsal (spread out over three or four rehearsals, not in one
>>> session) to learn it, and then we had to play it every rehearsal to
>>> stay on top of it.
>>>
>>> Definitely far more difficult than anything in the Dead catalogue
>>>
>>> Scot
>> Just because the Dead's music may not be as complex as Frank's
>> doesn't invalidate them. There are days when I'd much rather hear
>> China Cat Sunflower than Peaches, but I still enjoy both.
>
> What in my post made you think that I think that there is anything
> "invalid" about their music? I love the Dead, they are my favorite
> band, I saw them over 80+ times with Jerry, and probably another 15-20
> post Garcia variants of the Dead
> (TOO, P&F's, The Dead, Ratdog, Further Festival etc)
>
> Scot
>
>
>

I apologize for misinterpreting your post. Sometimes I get a little
defensive about the Dead, it's just that I've suffered through nearly
thirty years of my friends, exes, etc. dismissing them as
inconsequential. In the future I will try to read more carefully,
especially in the morning. :-)
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200841 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 15:53
chickyraptor  
band beyond description wrote:

> and from what I hear, a coin flip determined that JGB would
> open for FZ at the U. of I. Pavillion in Chicago on 8-18-84.

If FZ had won the toss, would someone good have opened
for him instead of JGB?

--Dave
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200842 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 15:56
volkfolk  
<pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1136990047.003765.143880 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> volkfolk wrote:
>
>> When Peter Gabriel left the band (Selling England By The Pound was PG's
>> last
>> album)
>
> Correction - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway was PG's last. To answer
> Bzl's post, Phil was their only drummer in the studio. Bruford and
> Thompson only played with the band onstage.
>
> Pat Buzby
> Chicago, IL

I thought that "Lamb" came before SEBTP. I think what threw me was that
SEBTP featured Phil's first vocal, "More Fool Me"

Scot
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200843 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 16:00
chickyraptor  
volkfolk wrote:
> I thought that "Lamb" came before SEBTP. I think what threw
> me was that SEBTP featured Phil's first vocal, "More Fool Me"]

Prepare to be thrown again.

--Dave
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200844 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 16:01
pbuzby2002  
minnehaha wrote:
> Yeah, and that's one of Frank's "easier" tunes. Imagine trying to learn
> Zomby Woof or RDNZL.

Check the movie Rock School where Paul Green has the top-notch students
perform Zappa material, including Zomby Woof (although you don't get to
see them learning it).

BTW, I wouldn't say Peaches was one of his "easier" tunes. Probably
slightly-above-average difficulty at least as far as his rock
repertoire went.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200845 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 16:52
progea  
dave warned volkfolk:

> volkfolk wrote:

> > I thought that "Lamb" came before SEBTP. I think what threw
> > me was that SEBTP featured Phil's first vocal, "More Fool Me"]
>
> Prepare to be thrown again.

Indeed, though. Phil's first vocal with Genesis was actually on the
very first album with Genesis that he also played drums on, which was
actually already "Nursery Crime" 1971.

He actually sings lead or is at least a co-vocalist on "For Absent
Friends", "Harold the Barrel", and "Harlequin". Phil's first vocal as
an artist might have already been in his Artful Dodger role when he was
being just 5, circa 1955-1956, I think. Phil's first vocal as a human
being might have already been at the very moment he was born, which, I
think, was February 12th, 1951, I guess. Dunno whether he also drummed
at that time already.

Edi

Oakville, ON

--
http://www.geocities.com/edi_60
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200847 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 17:42
Gary  
volkfolk wrote:

> A band that I used to play bass in used to do "Peaches En Regalia" and I can
> tell you that it was definitely one of the most difficult pieces of music I
> have ever played. It took a good 4-5 hours of rehearsal (spread out over
> three or four rehearsals, not in one session) to learn it, and then we had
> to play it every rehearsal to stay on top of it.

Crap it took me 2 years to memorize the chord progression!
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200848 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 17:57
Chuck  
>moment he was born, which, I
>think, was February 12th,

Phil Jan 30th
Steve Feb 12th
Peter Feb 13th
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200850 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 19:13
progea  
Chuck corrected:

> >moment he was born, which, I
> >think, was February 12th,
>
> Phil Jan 30th
> Steve Feb 12th
> Peter Feb 13th

Aaaargh, how come they yet gave me a B- when I took Genesis 101 in
junior-high, man?

Sheesh, I yet had a feeling "Matte kudassai, wasn't Feb. 12th actually
Hackett's or Archangel's birthday, though?" before hitting the "Send"
button for that posting of mine.

And I also seem to always mistake Trevor Rabin's birthday for Tony
Kaye's & vice versa.

I stand corrected, thank you very much, Sir!

Edi

--
http://www.geocities.com/edi_60
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200851 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 19:32
mallette  
"Nursery Cryme" no big deal, just writing from North Carolina and miss
seeing Genesis in Montreal from my home town of Malone, NY.
<progea [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1136994747.659926.144760 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> dave warned volkfolk:
>
>> volkfolk wrote:
>
>> > I thought that "Lamb" came before SEBTP. I think what threw
>> > me was that SEBTP featured Phil's first vocal, "More Fool Me"]
>>
>> Prepare to be thrown again.
>
> Indeed, though. Phil's first vocal with Genesis was actually on the
> very first album with Genesis that he also played drums on, which was
> actually already "Nursery Crime" 1971.
>
> He actually sings lead or is at least a co-vocalist on "For Absent
> Friends", "Harold the Barrel", and "Harlequin". Phil's first vocal as
> an artist might have already been in his Artful Dodger role when he was
> being just 5, circa 1955-1956, I think. Phil's first vocal as a human
> being might have already been at the very moment he was born, which, I
> think, was February 12th, 1951, I guess. Dunno whether he also drummed
> at that time already.
>
> Edi
>
> Oakville, ON
>
> --
> http://www.geocities.com/edi_60
>
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200853 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 20:07
Lfh  
volkfolk wrote:
> Frank was notoriously underwhelmed by most musicians.

You betcha. Even ones in his own band, when it came to soloing. He'd
sit there smoking a cigarette, with a "can we get this over with" look
on his face. That's why I dug it so much when he had Shankar sit in. He
was absolutely interested in that! He was seriously bopping around in
spasms of delight during Shankar's violin solos.

Interviewer: Is Shankar going to bring an Indian thing to the band?

Z: Well, I don't see as he can help it, since he *is* kinda Indian.


He used to have a
> column in some music mag (Musician? Downbeat?) where he talked about the
> issues that he had when trying to record symphonic pieces. Orchestras drove
> him particularly nuts.

Orchestral Stupidities. Musician. Yes, he had his nightmares with
getting orchestras to play his stuff because it took much, much more
rehearsal time than the standard classical fare and they wanted Zappa
to pay for everything. Until Ensemble Modern came around, he never felt
like anyone played his music the way he really wanted to hear it.

> Genesis Drummer Chester Thompson said that Frank was
> a ballbuster of a boss to work for and that his music was the most difficult
> music he ever played.

Yeah, he was a taskmaster, no doubt. As for his music being so
difficult, Chester's hardly alone. Tommy Tedesco, the legendary studio
guitar player, said he went to an early gig (Lumpy Gravy) expecting it
to be no problem cause he was a studio hotshot who "could read
anything." When he got there and looked at the charts, he freaked out
and "sweated bullets for several hours." Said it was one of the hardest
gigs he ever had, and Lumpy Gravy is very early on.

>Definitely far more difficult than anything in the Dead catalogue

Definitely far more difficult than anything in the most people's
catalogue.

Fred
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200854 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 21:23
Charles Ulrich  
In article <1137006436.436042.108810 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"Lfh" <onetaste2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

> volkfolk wrote:
>
> > He used to have a column in some music mag (Musician? Downbeat?)
> > where he talked about the issues that he had when trying to record
> > symphonic pieces. Orchestras drove him particularly nuts.
>
> Orchestral Stupidities. Musician.

Was this an on-going column? I have the October 1981 issue, wherein FZ's
"Two Orchestral Stupidities" is listed under Features, not under Columns
& Departments.

> Yeah, he was a taskmaster, no doubt. As for his music being so
> difficult, Chester's hardly alone. Tommy Tedesco, the legendary studio
> guitar player, said he went to an early gig (Lumpy Gravy) expecting it
> to be no problem cause he was a studio hotshot who "could read
> anything." When he got there and looked at the charts, he freaked out
> and "sweated bullets for several hours." Said it was one of the hardest
> gigs he ever had, and Lumpy Gravy is very early on.

Where did this quotation from Tommy Tedesco appear?

--Charles
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200856 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 21:34
Lfh  
Charles Ulrich wrote:
> Was this an on-going column? I have the October 1981 issue, wherein FZ's
> "Two Orchestral Stupidities" is listed under Features, not under Columns
> & Departments.

Right you are, Charles. It wasn't a column. I should have cleared that
up. He did have that Absolutely Frank column in Guitar Player for a
while.

>
> Where did this quotation from Tommy Tedesco appear?

The Tommy Tedesco Guitar Book or something like that. It was an
instructional book, but it had little anecdotes littered throughout.

Fred
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200857 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 21:48
pbuzby2002  
Lfh wrote:
> Charles Ulrich wrote:
> > Was this an on-going column? I have the October 1981 issue, wherein FZ's
> > "Two Orchestral Stupidities" is listed under Features, not under Columns
> > & Departments.
>
> Right you are, Charles. It wasn't a column. I should have cleared that
> up. He did have that Absolutely Frank column in Guitar Player for a
> while.

For the trivia-inclined, the name of the column changed from
"Absolutely Frank" to "Non-Foods" at FZ's request.

Also, FZ reprinted the "Orchestral Stupidities" article in his
autobiography (where he included a couple of musicians' names which
were left out of the magazine article, presumably due to libel
concerns).

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200858 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 21:51
clyde200  
Charles Ulrich wrote:
> In article <1137006436.436042.108810 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> "Lfh" <onetaste2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>volkfolk wrote:
>>
>>
>>>He used to have a column in some music mag (Musician? Downbeat?)
>>>where he talked about the issues that he had when trying to record
>>>symphonic pieces. Orchestras drove him particularly nuts.
>>
>>Orchestral Stupidities. Musician.
>
>
> Was this an on-going column? I have the October 1981 issue, wherein FZ's
> "Two Orchestral Stupidities" is listed under Features, not under Columns
> & Departments.
>
>
>>Yeah, he was a taskmaster, no doubt. As for his music being so
>>difficult, Chester's hardly alone. Tommy Tedesco, the legendary studio
>>guitar player, said he went to an early gig (Lumpy Gravy) expecting it
>>to be no problem cause he was a studio hotshot who "could read
>>anything." When he got there and looked at the charts, he freaked out
>>and "sweated bullets for several hours." Said it was one of the hardest
>>gigs he ever had, and Lumpy Gravy is very early on.
>
>
> Where did this quotation from Tommy Tedesco appear?
>
> --Charles

Getting kind of off topic here but.... wasn't Tommy Tedesco the guitar
player for someone's talk show (Alan Thicke?)? And even if he wasn't
weren't Alan Thicke and FZ kinda friends?

Just asking.
CBG
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200859 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 22:10
Tamara  
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:16:49 -0500, kombi45 [at] yahoo.com wrote
(in article <1136953009.237571.267420 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):

> Just reading Phil Lesh's book _Searching for the Sound_ and Phil has
> this to say about FZ:
>
> "I've always Zappa as a part of a long line of true composers, whose
> individual visions are so powerful that they must be manifested as
> purely as possible, a true successor to his hero, Edgar Varese."
>
> I have a taped interview (over three hours) with Frank from Society
> Pages, I guess, circa '89 in which he was asked what he thought about
> The Dead and Deadheads to which he responded:
>
> "They're OK."
>
> Mutual respect abounded!
>
> SCd
>

The Dead's second lp "Anthem Of The Sun" has a lot of Frank's
influence on it, especially the "Lumpy Gravy/Money" era.

Tamara
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200861 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 23:10
Charles Ulrich  
In article <0001HW.BFEADE700014FF3FF0407550 [at] news.verizon.net>,
Tamara <tamara [at] endlesstunnel.com> wrote:

> The Dead's second lp "Anthem Of The Sun" has a lot of Frank's
> influence on it, especially the "Lumpy Gravy/Money" era.

Hmm.

According to the AMG, Anthem Of The Sun was recorded September 1967
through March 31, 1968.

The Verve version of Lumpy Gravy wasn't released until May 1968. Do you
think Phil Lesh got a hold of the Capitol version (almost released in
August 1967)?

--Charles
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200862 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 23:12
Charles Ulrich  
In article <1137011659.552770.175600 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Lfh" <onetaste2000 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

> Charles Ulrich wrote:
> > Was this an on-going column? I have the October 1981 issue, wherein FZ's
> > "Two Orchestral Stupidities" is listed under Features, not under Columns
> > & Departments.
>
> Right you are, Charles. It wasn't a column. I should have cleared that
> up.

Too bad. I was hoping to be wrong on this one.

> > Where did this quotation from Tommy Tedesco appear?
>
> The Tommy Tedesco Guitar Book or something like that. It was an
> instructional book, but it had little anecdotes littered throughout.

Thanks.

--Charles
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200863 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 23:14
pbuzby2002  
Charles Ulrich wrote:
> In article <0001HW.BFEADE700014FF3FF0407550 [at] news.verizon.net>,
> Tamara <tamara [at] endlesstunnel.com> wrote:
>
> > The Dead's second lp "Anthem Of The Sun" has a lot of Frank's
> > influence on it, especially the "Lumpy Gravy/Money" era.
>
> Hmm.
>
> According to the AMG, Anthem Of The Sun was recorded September 1967
> through March 31, 1968.
>
> The Verve version of Lumpy Gravy wasn't released until May 1968. Do you
> think Phil Lesh got a hold of the Capitol version (almost released in
> August 1967)?

Anthem Of The Sun is similar to those FZ albums in that it has a lot of
splicing and some musique concrete, but I don't think the members of
the Dead have mentioned this being due to FZ's influence.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200864 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 23:24
Charles Ulrich  
In article <1137012490.336613.6230 [at] f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com wrote:

> Lfh wrote:
> >
> > He did have that Absolutely Frank column in Guitar Player for a
> > while.
>
> For the trivia-inclined, the name of the column changed from
> "Absolutely Frank" to "Non-Foods" at FZ's request.

In case anyone wants to track these down, here's a list:

Absolutely Frank
First Steps In Odd Meters (11/82)
Putting Some Garlic In Your Playing (12/82)

Non-Foods
Stepping Outside The Beat (1/83)
Bass, Sports, And Adventure (3/83)
Coming To Grips With Polyrhythms (4/83)
Stretching Out With Vamps (5/83)
Feedback, Effects, And Tone (7/83)
Not The Moody Blues (11/83)
Digital Sampling And Guitar (12/83)
Video-Assisted Ignorance (4/84)

--Charles
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200865 ] Do, 12 Januar 2006 01:04
kombi45  
Lfh wrote:
> kombi45 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> > I have a taped interview (over three hours) with Frank from Society
> > Pages, I guess, circa '89 in which he was asked what he thought about
> > The Dead and Deadheads to which he responded:
> >
> > "They're OK."
> >
> > Mutual respect abounded!
>
> LOL. Yeah, he has a long history of being underwhelmed by the Dead and
> the whole hippie scene.

He oozes that vibe. Teenage Wind, Harry As A Boy's allowance, Cruising
for Burgers, etc. But I wonder how Frank interacted with Jerry - as
people mentioned, the JGB opened at a stop on the '84 tour. Seems like
Jerry personified things that Frank abhorred - serious and hard core
drug use. Frank's totalitarian approach to all things music versus
Jerry's laissez faire methodology...not that this would cause
animosity, but I've never heard Frank say anything necessarily BAD
about the Dead. In his _Real FZ Book_ he does indict the San Francisco
hippie scene in the 60's as being phony compared to the LA freak scene
- the freaks were the real deal and the hippies were merely posing...in
his mind, I guess.

Frank was never at a loss in verbalizing his true feelings. So I gotta
go with what he said - "They're OK." In the interview, the emphasis is
on OK...not like "Yeah, The Dead - they're alright." More like (and I
can just picture his registered trademark smirking snarl with one eye
squinting) "They're OK" as in they are OK at best! Anyone else heard
the interview I'm referring to?

SCd
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200867 ] Do, 12 Januar 2006 02:49
Tom Beck  
kombi45 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> Lfh wrote:
>
>>kombi45 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>I have a taped interview (over three hours) with Frank from Society
>>>Pages, I guess, circa '89 in which he was asked what he thought about
>>>The Dead and Deadheads to which he responded:
>>>
>>>"They're OK."
>>>
>>>Mutual respect abounded!
>>
>>LOL. Yeah, he has a long history of being underwhelmed by the Dead and
>>the whole hippie scene.
>
>
> He oozes that vibe. Teenage Wind, Harry As A Boy's allowance, Cruising
> for Burgers, etc. But I wonder how Frank interacted with Jerry - as
> people mentioned, the JGB opened at a stop on the '84 tour. Seems like
> Jerry personified things that Frank abhorred - serious and hard core
> drug use. Frank's totalitarian approach to all things music versus
> Jerry's laissez faire methodology...not that this would cause
> animosity, but I've never heard Frank say anything necessarily BAD
> about the Dead. In his _Real FZ Book_ he does indict the San Francisco
> hippie scene in the 60's as being phony compared to the LA freak scene
> - the freaks were the real deal and the hippies were merely posing...in
> his mind, I guess.


"San Francisco, where everybody thinks
they are some big deal..."

FZ
Re: What Phil said about Frank..... [message #200868 ] Do, 12 Januar 2006 03:48
pbuzby2002  
kombi45 [at] yahoo.com wrote:

> Frank's totalitarian approach to all things music versus
> Jerry's laissez faire methodology...not that this would cause
> animosity, but I've never heard Frank say anything necessarily BAD
> about the Dead.

Ben Watson found a negative FZ quote about the Dead from the 60's for
his Zappa bio, but FZ was more aggressive back then. Later his
attitude in interviews became more along the lines of "this music isn't
for me, but it's there for people who want it."

The Zappateers site had an interview from '77 where FZ mentioned
hearing a cut from Terrapin Station on the radio, not knowing who it
was, and liking it.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
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