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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » Re: COTW - Silmarillion Ch VII: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
Re: COTW - Silmarillion Ch VII: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor [message #192157] Mi, 28 Dezember 2005 14:41
Christopher Kreuzer  
[cross-posting to AFT]

R. Dan Henry <danhenry [at] inreach.com> wrote:
> This post is part of the series of "Chapter of the Week" discussions
> on 'The Silmarillion' by J.R.R. Tolkien. To read previous Chapter of
> the Week discussions, or to sign up to introduce a future chapter,
> please go to:
>
> http://parasha.maoltuile.org
>
> Chapter of the Week (CotW) - The Silmarillion
>
> Quenta Silmarillion (QS)
> Chapter VII - Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
>
> The Noldor had been making and passing out shinies for awhile and
> everyone was impressed with the ordinary gems of the Earth, but
> Feanor, as mentioned in the last chapter, had gone further and made
> prettier shinies and even the practical seeing stones. Now we get to
> the making of the prettiest shinies of them all -- the Silmarils.
> Seeing as how the whole book is named after them, it should be no
> surprise that these are "those things that afterwards were most
> renowned of all the works of the Elves."
>
> The Silmarils were made in secret and Feanor shared his knowledge with
> none, so their composition is unknown. However, they look like
> diamond, but much stronger. ("[N]o violence could mar it or break it
> within the Kingdom of Arda.") [Unbreakable plastic?] This crystal,
> however, was made only as a housing, in which Feanor captured and
> preserved the blended light of the Two Trees.
>
> The Silmarils are loved by all, especially Feanor himself. Varda
> hallows them so that they will burn any evil thing that touches them.
> Then Melkor also becomes obsessive about the Silmarils, although he
> wasn't allowed near them -- Feanor either wore them or locked them up.
> [Wouldn't it have been a good idea to test his repentance by letting
> him hold the Silmarils awhile?]
>
> Melkor gets to work seeding the rumor mill and the Noldor gossip just
> like humans, spreading and enlarging his lies. He spoke of the realms
> the Noldor could have had in Middle-earth and suggested the Valar
> brought them to Aman to restrain them, jealous of their possible
> power. He told them of Men (which the Valar hadn't bothered to
> mention) and suggested the Elves were removed from Middle-earth so
> Men could have it. The Noldor grew proud and suspicious. And Feanor,
> who hated Melkor, listened to the rumors he had planted and grew
> discontent. Meanwhile, Feanor became even more possessive of the
> Silmarils, and forgetful that their light was not his work.
>
> Melkor then begins to work his lies to sow distrust between Feanor and
> his half-brethren, easy work given the rift that already existed. Then
> Melkor taught weapon-making and the Noldor began to openly carry
> shields bearing tokens of their houses, while making weapons in
> secret. At last, Feanor speaks openly against the Valar and proposes
> to lead the Noldor back to Middle-earth. Fingolfin sees this as
> rebellion against his father and urges Finwe to takes control of the
> situation. Feanor drives Fingolfin from Finwe's house at sword point.
> Since this was seen by many, word of the unrest of the Noldor at last
> reaches the Valar.
>
> For threatening Fingolfin, Feanor must answer to the Valar and at last
> it comes out that Melkor has been a bad parolee and Tulkas goes to
> collect him. Feanor is exiled from Tirion for twelve years. Fingolfin
> is forgiving, but Feanor is silent. Feanor makes a stronghold, with a
> treasury and hoard of weapons. With him came his seven sons, and his
> father. With Finwe absent, Fingolfin ruled the Noldor in Tirion. [Even
> given that Feanor is his favorite, should Finwe join him in exile?
> Isn't this an abdication of his duties? Doesn't leaving Fingolfin in
> charge just feed Feanor's jealousy and paranoia?]
>
> Melkor turns himself into a cloud and evades Tulkas. In this guise, he
> dims the lights of Valinor, the Trees seeming to dim and the shadows
> growing longer (!) and darker. He next materializes at Feanor's door.
> He argues that events have proved him right and offer to aid Feanor in
> departing Aman. Now, like Melkor, Feanor responded to his shame with
> resentment, and he considered Melkor's offer. But Melkor tried to sway
> his indecision by suggesting the Silmarils might be stolen by the
> Valar. Feanor recognizes that the Vala most interested in stealing
> his pretties is standing before him and he curses Melkor and slams
> the door in his face. Melkor, naturally, doesn't take this well.
>
> Finwe is frightened by these events and sends messengers to Manwe.
> Orome and Tulkas prepare to go after Melkor, but word comes that he
> has been seen leaving Valinor. The shadow that dimmed the light is
> gone, but Melkor has escaped, evil as ever, the Valar looking like
> ineffective chumps, whose efforts to locate him are fruitless. Those
> who dwell in Aman had now to worry over what was to come when Melkor
> would reappear.
>
> *** FURTHER ISSUES ***
>
> "not until the Sun passes and the Moon falls" -- we get a glimpse of
> the end of Middle-earth here. Compare to other end-of-the-world
> scenarios.
>
> Melkor's lies are more along the line of half-truths. The Elves would,
> in the natural course of things, created realms for themselves in
> Middle-earth. Men were coming and would displace the Elves in
> Middle-earth. The Valar bringing the Elves to Aman and then keeping
> Men a secret didn't look too good when viewed critically. And of what
> he tells Fingolfin and Finarfin ("Beware! Small love has the proud
> son of Miriel ever had for the children of Indis. Now he has become
> great, and he has his father in his hand. It will not be long before
> he drives you forth from Tuna.") there is mostly truth and even the
> speculation isn't necessarily wrong, given Feanor's desire to master
> minds. With better management, could Aman have been better
> lie-proofed against Melkor?
>
> Why is Feanor such a jerk? Spoiled by his father? Abandonment issues
> because of his mother? Do you blame his father's remarriage and the
> half-brothers, as some do? Or is it his "fiery" nature, too
> obsessive-compulsive and impulsive to make good decisions? How did the
> poor little rich boy go so very, very wrong?
>
> Specifically, the Noldor make "swords and axes and spears" -- no
> mention is made of bows or slings, nor of maces or flails. Is there
> any significance to this? (The weapons they make are all edged
> weapons.)
>
> How can the Valar be so totally clueless as to what is going on in
> their own realm? What was the point of keeping Melkor close if nobody
> is going to actually watch what he does? Why didn't the Valar at
> least speak up when Feanor began to openly accuse them? "And Manwe
> was grieved, but he watched and said no word." No investigation of
> why he had become a malcontent, no attempt to set the record
> straight, no offer of aid in returning to Middle-earth if that's what
> the Noldor want. Manwe just sits on his throne on his mountain.
>
> How exactly do you make the shadows grow *longer*? Darker, yes, if you
> dim the Trees, but shadow length is a matter of height and the angle
> of the light. I guess this is just one of those "mythological"
> elements. Maybe some of Melkor's shadow -- the semi-physical kind --
> lurks in the normal shadows.
>
> "But his cunning overreached his aim; his words touched too deep, and
> awoke a fire more fierce than he designed; and Feanor looked upon
> Melkor with eyes that burned through his fair semblance and pierced
> the cloaks of his mind, perceiving there his fierce lust for the
> Silmarils." -- Telepathic power or poetically described recognition
> of a similar mind's shared coveting of the shinies?
Re: COTW - Silmarillion Ch VII: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor [message #192158 ] Mi, 28 Dezember 2005 17:06
Taemon  
R. Dan Henry <danhenry [at] inreach.com> wrote:

>> Why is Feanor such a jerk? Spoiled by his father? Abandonment
>> issues because of his mother? Do you blame his father's
>> remarriage and the half-brothers, as some do?

*He* does, I think. I don't think he has ever forgiven his mother for
"leaving" him. Maybe he felt guilty. And begrudged his father's
renewed happiness. Huuuh, Fëanor. I never liked him. He is
irresponsible and spoiled.

T.
Re: COTW - Silmarillion Ch VII: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor [message #192162 ] Mi, 28 Dezember 2005 23:19
Derek Broughton  
Taemon wrote:

> R. Dan Henry <danhenry [at] inreach.com> wrote:
>
>>> Why is Feanor such a jerk? Spoiled by his father? Abandonment
>>> issues because of his mother? Do you blame his father's
>>> remarriage and the half-brothers, as some do?
>
> *He* does, I think. I don't think he has ever forgiven his mother for
> "leaving" him. Maybe he felt guilty. And begrudged his father's
> renewed happiness. Huuuh, Fëanor. I never liked him. He is
> irresponsible and spoiled.
>
Does anybody like him? Does he have any redeeming features? He's sort of
like the "friend" we've probably all had - who's helpful & generous & witty
& bright, until you cross him accidentally, and then it's all over!
--
derek
Re: COTW - Silmarillion Ch VII: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor [message #192168 ] Do, 29 Dezember 2005 00:40
danhenry  
On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 17:06:05 +0100, "Taemon" <Taemon [at] zonnet.nl> wrote:

>R. Dan Henry <danhenry [at] inreach.com> wrote:
>
>>> Why is Feanor such a jerk? Spoiled by his father? Abandonment
>>> issues because of his mother? Do you blame his father's
>>> remarriage and the half-brothers, as some do?
>
>*He* does, I think. I don't think he has ever forgiven his mother for
>"leaving" him. Maybe he felt guilty. And begrudged his father's
>renewed happiness. Huuuh, Fëanor. I never liked him. He is
>irresponsible and spoiled.

I don't like him, either. Only Melkor among the real characters
(excluding mere walk-ons like the Balrogs) is less likeable. Even Sauron
seems more likely to come around for a cup of tea and have a nice chat.
Feanor would just keep talking about himself and ignoring you. Oh, and
talking about how great his Silmarils are, but you can't see them.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry [at] inreach.com
Re: COTW - Silmarillion Ch VII: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest ofthe Noldor [message #192169 ] Do, 29 Dezember 2005 00:56
Morgil  
Derek Broughton wrote:
> Taemon wrote:
>
>
>>R. Dan Henry <danhenry [at] inreach.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Why is Feanor such a jerk? Spoiled by his father? Abandonment
>>>>issues because of his mother? Do you blame his father's
>>>>remarriage and the half-brothers, as some do?
>>
>>*He* does, I think. I don't think he has ever forgiven his mother for
>>"leaving" him. Maybe he felt guilty. And begrudged his father's
>>renewed happiness. Huuuh, Fëanor. I never liked him. He is
>>irresponsible and spoiled.
>>
>
> Does anybody like him? Does he have any redeeming features? He's sort of
> like the "friend" we've probably all had - who's helpful & generous & witty
> & bright, until you cross him accidentally, and then it's all over!

Like in what sense? As a person he's not the most pleasent one,
but he had some very admirable features, and he's possibly the
most intersting and complex character that Tolkien ever created.
Sure, he also had negative traits, which along with unfortunate
circumstances led to some tragic results, but if he hadn't been
what he was, all the great things he accomplished would not have
happened either.

Morgil
Re: COTW - Silmarillion Ch VII: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor [message #200727 ] Mi, 11 Januar 2006 05:12
atsarisborn  
Feanor is such a jerk precisely because he is unquestionably the most
brilliant of the Elves (ALL of the Elves), the most inventive, the most
ingenious, the scientist. His failings as a person are directly related
to this: Tolkien saw excessive ingenuity and the ego that goes with it
to be the Original Sin. It is Melkor's sin, and it is also Feanor's; it
is his caution to the creators of the modern world Tolkien didn't much
care for.

Tolkien regarded creation as an act that must be seen as creating only
what God had originally conceived; creators who demanded admiration for
their own genius were, in his view, rebels against God.

It is therefore necessary that Feanor be a jerk -- he's not quite as
clever as Melkor.

What puzzles me is if Tolkien can dislike Feanor and his abominable
sons so heartily, how can he think so highly of Turin Turambar who is
just as arrogant and destructive without the charm of Feanor's
curiosity and inventiveness? (I find Turin quite the most repulsive of
the human characters in the Silmarillion. Orodreth should have had him
poisoned.)

Tsar Parmathule
Re: COTW - Silmarillion Ch VII: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor [message #207484 ] Do, 19 Januar 2006 11:30
Dirk Thierbach  
atsarisborn [at] hotmail.com wrote:
> What puzzles me is if Tolkien can dislike Feanor and his abominable
> sons so heartily, how can he think so highly of Turin Turambar who is
> just as arrogant and destructive without the charm of Feanor's
> curiosity and inventiveness?

Hm. How do you figure Tolkien disliked Feanor, but liked Turin?
Even if the text has some sort of "spin", that doesn't necessarily reflect
the author's opinion.

> (I find Turin quite the most repulsive of the human characters in
> the Silmarillion. Orodreth should have had him poisoned.)

I think the interesting point about Turin is that he tries to escape
from his doom, but fails, because his "doom" is connected to his
own (somewhat repulsive) character traits, and he cannot escape himself.

Seen this way, it doesn't really matter if Turin himself is repulsive or
not; that's just besides the point of the story.

- Dirk
Re: COTW - Silmarillion Ch VII: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor [message #218456 ] Mi, 08 Februar 2006 22:18
Troels Forchhammer  
In message <news:41frffF1ee0caU1 [at] individual.net>
"Taemon" <Taemon [at] zonnet.nl> enriched us with:
>
> R. Dan Henry <danhenry [at] inreach.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why is Feanor such a jerk? Spoiled by his father? Abandonment
>>> issues because of his mother? Do you blame his father's
>>> remarriage and the half-brothers, as some do?
>
> *He* does, I think. I don't think he has ever forgiven his mother
> for "leaving" him.

I think it is strongly implied by Tolkien that he also blamed this
unfortunate early bereavement.

As I understand the history, Tolkien worked with several models for
this. In BoLT Fëanor is not the son of the Noldorin king, but he soon
became that. For a while, then, Fingolfin and Fëanor were full
brothers, but it would appear that Tolkien was dissatisfied with that
solution precisely because it didn't offer a motive for Fëanor's
greater fall.

At one point Tolkien had Fëanor be the 'firstborn of the Eldar' --
the first to be born of a mother in Middle-earth during the Great
March, and has his mother die during the Great March. Finwë, then,
wanted to stop until he heard that his wife would be
reborn/reincarnated in Aman. Supposedly Fëanor's brothers, in that
model, were born after Finwë was reunited with their mother.

All this to say that Tolkien apparently felt that Fëanor had to
suffer the early loss of his mother in order for him to develop into
the prideful <expletive> he became.

> Maybe he felt guilty.

Possibly. An element of guilt might explain why the scenario we know
from the Silmarillion works better than the one I described above.

> And begrudged his father's renewed happiness.

I see him rather as being jealous of his father's love. 'All his love
[Finwë] gave thereafter to his son; and Fëanor grew swiftly, as if a
secret fire were kindled within him.' When compared to Fëanor's words
to Fingolfin, 'Try but once more to usurp my place and the love of my
father, [...]', I think we see a person who is extremely jealous and
avaricious with all he considers his own: Finwë's love or the sight
of the Silmarils, it matters not.

> Huuuh, Fëanor. I never liked him. He is irresponsible and spoiled.

He is supposed to be irresponsible and spoiled and half a dozen other
unfavourable things as well. If he was not like that, the story would
stop right there -- he wouldn't have drawn his sword upon Fingolfin,
or spoken words of rebellion against the Valar, for that matter. He
would have willingly offered the Silmarils to Yavanna in her attempt
to restore the Trees etc.

The point is not to excuse Fëanor for his deeds -- the fact that he
is doomed to remain in the Halls of Waiting until the end should tell
just how futile that endavour would be within the story. I think the
point we might debate is how he became such an <expletive> (in
Tolkien's intention), and whether that is psychologically and morally
believable.

Personally I don't find Míriel's absence and Finwë's re-marriage
capable of serving as the explanation for Fëanor's Fall; it may
explain his jealousy, but hardly his pride (unless Finwë doted
extremely on him in his early years).

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>

Men, said the Devil,
are good to their brothers:
they don't want to mend
their own ways, but each other's.
- Piet Hein, /Mankind/
Re: COTW - Silmarillion Ch VII: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor [message #218489 ] Fr, 10 Februar 2006 08:48
Taemon  
Troels Forchhammer wrote:

> Personally I don't find Míriel's absence and Finwë's re-marriage
> capable of serving as the explanation for Fëanor's Fall; it may
> explain his jealousy, but hardly his pride (unless Finwë doted
> extremely on him in his early years).

But I always thought his pride stems from his vulnerability, his pain.
"No one loves me! I'll love myself. I'm the best!" Pride as hollow
love.

T.
Re: COTW - Silmarillion Ch VII: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor [message #224408 ] Di, 14 Februar 2006 17:48
Troels Forchhammer  
In message <news:cCwsf.15748$iz3.9256 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
"Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> enriched us with:
>
> [cross-posting to AFT]

Finally catching up with the series (now I just hope to have time to
look at the next chapter before we're moving on from that) ;)

> R. Dan Henry <danhenry [at] inreach.com> wrote:
>>

<snip>

>> Quenta Silmarillion (QS)
>> Chapter VII - Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor

A matter of the composition of the chapters: The previous chapters
have typically been combining various versions of the text; both from
the Annals of Aman, the later phases of the Quenta Silmarillion
(Christopher Tolkien, CT, distinguishes two phases in Morgoth's Ring,
MR) and occasionally other material. This material has typically been
collected and combined to provide the longest possible text on the
subject, but this chapter is different.

This chapter relies almost exclusively on the latest text (the only
that contains this heading), but in this case part of the text has
been cut, making the published text shorter than JRRT's original.

A good example of this is the description of the judging of Fëanor
after he had drawn his sword on Fingolfin (I know it's rather long at
73 lines but I will nevertheless quote it in full, including
paragraph numbers [I hope the paragraph marks come across OK -- the
'§' is in any case meant to represent the double-S paragraph sign],
to allow people to compare to the published version).

§52h The unrest of the Noldor was not indeed hidden from
the Valar; but its seed had been sown in the dark; and
therefore, since Fëanor first spoke openly against the
Valar, they deemed that he was the mover of discontent,
being eminent in self-will and arrogance, though all the
Noldor had become proud. It was, maybe, the nature of the
Children that as they grew they should become wilful, and
should desire to escape from tutelage, remembering it with
little gratitude. Therefore Manwë was grieved, but he
watched and said no word. The Valar had brought the Eldar
to their land freely, to dwell or to depart; and though
they might judge departure to be folly, it would not be
lawful to restrain them from it, if wise counsel did not
suffice.
§53 But now the deeds of Fëanor could not be passed over,
and the Valar were wroth; and dismayed also, perceiving
that more was at work than the wilfulness of youth.
Therefore Manwë summoned Fëanor to appear before the Valar
to answer for all his words and deeds, and he was brought
to the gates of Valmar. Thither also were summoned all
others who had any part in the matter, or any knowledge
thereof, or any grievance of their own to declare.
§53a Then Mandos set Fëanor before him in the Ring of
Doom and bade him answer to all that was asked of him.
Great must be the power and will of any who would lie to
Mandos, or even refuse his questioning. But Fëanor had no
thought of it. He was so besotted with the lies of Melkor
that had taken root in his proud heart (though he did not
yet clearly perceive their source) that he judged himself
justified in all points, and other judgement he scorned.
§53b But when all was said, and all the testimonies were
spoken, and words and deeds were brought out of the dark
into the light, then at last the root was laid bare: the
malice of Melkor was revealed, and his lies and half-lies
made plain for all to recognize who had the will to see.
Straightway Tulkas was sent from the council to lay hands
on Melkor and bring him again to judgement. But Fëanor was
not held wholly guiltless in himself. For he had forged
secret swords, and had drawn one in anger unjustified,
threatening the life of his kinsman.
§53c Therefore Mandos said to him: Thou speakest of
thraldom. If thraldom it be, thou canst not escape it. For
Manwë is King of Arda, and not of Aman only. And this deed
was unlawful, whether in Aman or not in Aman. Though more
insolent in Aman, for it is a hallowed land. Therefore this
doom is now made: for twelve years thou shalt leave Túna
where this threat was uttered. In that time take counsel
with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. But after
that time this matter shall be set in peace and held
redressed, if others will release thee.'
§53d Then Fingolfin rose and said: 'I will release my
brother.' But Fëanor spoke no word in answer; and when he
had stood silent before the Valar for a while, he turned
and left the council and departed from Valmar. At once he
returned to Túna, and before the term of seven days that
was set, he gathered his goods and his treasures and left
the city and went far away. With him went his sons, and
Finwë his father, who would not be parted from him, in
fault or guiltless, and some others also of the Noldor. But
Nerdanel would not go with him, and she asked leave to
abide with Indis, whom she had ever esteemed, though this
had been little to the liking of Fëanor. Northward in
Valinor, in the hills near to the halls of Mandos, Fëanor
and his sons made a strong place and a treasury at
Formenos, and they laid in hoard a multitude of gems, and
weapons also: they did not put aside the swords that Fëanor
had made. But Fingolfin now ruled the Noldor in Túna; and
thus the very words of Melkor seemed to be fulfilled
(though it was Fëanor who had by his own deeds brought this
thing to pass); and the bitterness that Melkor had sown
endured, even though his lies had been made manifest. Long
afterward it lived still between Fëanor and the sons of
Indis.
[Morgoth's Ring 3,II 'Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor']

Now, CT obviously had to make some editorial decisions regarding
which version of the mythology to rely on. None of the versions had
all the texts in full, so there would be some editing to create a
reasonably consistent whole, and I think most of us can appreciate
the difficulties. In this case, however, I am confused by the cuts;
why? The text isn't, as far as I can see, inconsistent with anything
in the published version, and why deprive us from such information as
'Great must be the power and will of any who would lie to Mandos, or
even refuse his questioning' or that 'Nerdanel would not go with him,
and she asked leave to abide with Indis, whom she had ever esteemed'?

<snip>

Nice summary -- I liked it a lot ('shinies' and 'seeding the rumour
mill' indeed! <G>)

>> The Silmarils are loved by all, especially Feanor himself. Varda
>> hallows them so that they will burn any evil thing that touches
>> them.

Not only evil things:
[...] so that thereafter no mortal flesh, nor hands
unclean, nor anything of evil will might touch them,
but it was scorched and withered; [...]

The part about 'no mortal flesh' is, of course, important later on,
as this is the basis for the special thing about Beren holding the
Silmaril -- his /was/ mortal flesh, but when he touched the Silmaril,
the hallowing by Varda didn't act; something that, to me, emphasises
how monumental that event was.

[...] and Mandos foretold that the fates of Arda, earth,
sea, and air, lay locked within them.

Of course that isn't terribly hard to interpret when one knows where
the three Silmarils ended up, but why not fire? Are 'the fates of
Arda' threefold? Bound to three of the four ancient elements, but not
to the fourth (the fire -- whether Melkor's 'fire without restraint'
or the Secret Fire that is with Eru Ilúvatar)? There is an
assymmetry inherent in the association of three Silmarils to the
ancient elements, and I wonder if there is anything significant to
that: the Silmarils had their own 'inner fire' of the blended light
of the Two Trees, and I would have thought that this would have tied
them to that element.

>> Then Melkor also becomes obsessive about the Silmarils, although
>> he wasn't allowed near them -- Feanor either wore them or locked
>> them up.

The heart of Fëanor was fast bound to these things that he
himself had made.

And he 'began to love the Silmarils with a greedy love'

>> [Wouldn't it have been a good idea to test his repentance by
>> letting him hold the Silmarils awhile?]

How do you propose to persuade Fëanor to actually let Melkor touch
them, when he 'grudged the sight of them to all save to his father
and his seven sons'? You are not, I hope, suggesting sense and reason
to Fëanor ;-) (cold, emotion-less and distant rationality is not
among Fëanor's faults <G>)

<snip>

>> "not until the Sun passes and the Moon falls" -- we get a glimpse
>> of the end of Middle-earth here. Compare to other
>> end-of-the-world scenarios.

We are also told that Fëanor is dead and that he won't come back
until the end of the world. What is the impact of this in the context
of the published Silm? As Tolkien wrote the story we would have at
least some idea from the summary of 'The Statute of Finwë and
Míriel' that the Eldar could return from death, but with the removal
of this matter from the published, the significance of Mandos keeping
Fëanor still in the Halls of Awaiting is, I think, lost upon the
reader (I know that there is the somewhat mysterious 'and dying they
are gathered to the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in
time return' from 'Of the Beginning of Days', but it isn't, I think,
clear that 'in time' could mean within a short span of years).

>> Melkor's lies are more along the line of half-truths.
[...]
>> there is mostly truth and even the speculation isn't necessarily
>> wrong, given Feanor's desire to master minds. With better
>> management, could Aman have been better lie-proofed against
>> Melkor?

Ever Melkor found some ears that would heed him, and some
tongues that would enlarge what they had heard. For the
lies of Melkor take root by the truth that is in them.
['Annals of Aman' 1450-1490 §95, /Morgoth's Ring/ (HoMe10)]

>> Why is Feanor such a jerk? Spoiled by his father? Abandonment
>> issues because of his mother? Do you blame his father's
>> remarriage and the half-brothers, as some do? Or is it his
>> "fiery" nature, too obsessive-compulsive and impulsive to make
>> good decisions? How did the poor little rich boy go so very, very
>> wrong?

This has been discussed thoroughly elsewhere, but I just wanted to
post a couple of passages from the Shibboleth of Fëanor:

Fëanor loved his mother dearly, though except in
obstinacy their characters were widely different. He was
not gentle. He was proud and hot-tempered, and opposition
to his will he met not with the quiet steadfastness of his
mother but with fierce resentment.
[...]
During the time of his sorrow Finwë had little comfort
from Fëanor. For a while he also had kept vigil by his
mother's body, but soon he became wholly absorbed again in
his own works and devices. When the matter of Finwë and
Indis arose he was disturbed, and filled with anger and
resentment; though it is not recorded that he attended the
Debate or paid heed to the reasons given for the judgement,
or to its terms except in one point: that Míriel was
condemned to remain for ever discarnate, so that he could
never again visit her or speak with her, unless he himself
should die. This grieved him, and he grudged the happiness
of Finwë and Indis, and was unfriendly to their children,
even before they were born.
['The Shibboleth of Fëanor', /The Peoples of Middle-earth/ (HoMe12)]

This goes a bit further, I think, towards explaining both Fëanor's
character, and his resentment of Finwë's remarriage.

>> Specifically, the Noldor make "swords and axes and spears" -- no
>> mention is made of bows or slings, nor of maces or flails. Is
>> there any significance to this? (The weapons they make are all
>> edged weapons.)

Christopher Tolkien spends some of his commentary in MR on this very
issue. In the first version, the Eldar had 'before possessed only
weapons of the chase', supposedly hunting weapons, bows and spears,
and now learned how to create other weapons. In the next version they
possessed /no/ weapons until they were taught by Melkor, and in a
third version they had a store of weapons from the Great March, and
now 'the lords of the Noldor took out their swords and spears and
sharpened them, [...]'

At this point Christopher grows a bit dissatisfied with his father's
obsession for explaining things: 'Explanations in such a world may
prompt unneeded reflections. The passage of Oromë on his horse Nahar
from Aman to Middle-earth is never described, nor (I would say) need
it be, nor should it be [...]'

I think we can easily identify other questions where 'explanations in
such a world' has indeed prompted 'unneeded reflections' -- the
origin of the Orcs, anyone?

>> How can the Valar be so totally clueless as to what is going on
>> in their own realm?

They did know about the unrest of the Noldor, but not knowing what
they were dealing with (in terms of the Children), they chose to do
nothing.

>> What was the point of keeping Melkor close if nobody is going to
>> actually watch what he does?

That's the bit about Manwë not understanding evil, I think. He
actually believed that Melkor repented (and Mandos didn't interfere
with what had to happen).

>> Why didn't the Valar at least speak up when Feanor began to
>> openly accuse them?
>> "And Manwe was grieved, but he watched and said no word." No
>> investigation of why he had become a malcontent, no attempt to
>> set the record straight, no offer of aid in returning to
>> Middle-earth if that's what the Noldor want. Manwe just sits on
>> his throne on his mountain.

Well, yes; otherwise it'd ruin our story ;-)

I think that we are seeing again the result of the presentation of
Good and Evil as incommensurable paradigms. This is the same, only
the other way around, as Sauron not being able to imagine that anyone
would wish to throw him down without putting themselves in his stead,
or Manwë being free from evil and incapable of comprehending it.

The Valar didn't know what they were dealing with. It is described in
more details in the text I quoted in the top how they wondered
whether this was 'the nature of the Children'.

>> How exactly do you make the shadows grow *longer*?

'Explanations in such a world may prompt unneeded reflections.'

Perhaps this is a matter of 'he that breaks a thing to find out what
it is has left the path of wisdom.'

;-)

>> "But his cunning overreached his aim; his words touched too deep,
>> and awoke a fire more fierce than he designed; and Feanor looked
>> upon Melkor with eyes that burned through his fair semblance and
>> pierced the cloaks of his mind, perceiving there his fierce lust
>> for the Silmarils." -- Telepathic power or poetically described
>> recognition of a similar mind's shared coveting of the shinies?

Perhaps Melkor didn't close his mind completely. As it is written it
does seem a matter of Ósanwe, but it also, IMO, implies the greatness
of Fëanor's mind, that he was able to penetrate Melkor's fair
semblance. Possibly Melkor did not close his mind as much as cloak it
(I don't have my Ósanwe-kenta by me, so I don't recall whether it was
possible to deceive others using Ósanwe, but IIRC one couldn't
actually lie).

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>

"He deserves death."
"Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve
death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to
them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in
judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
- Frodo and Gandalf, /The Fellowship of the Ring/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)
Vorheriges Thema:Re: American soldiers are weak and cowardly - Here's the proof!
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