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Music / Musik » alt.fan.frank-zappa » Imaginary Diseases Samples
Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189062] Do, 22 Dezember 2005 00:47
pbuzby2002  
Okay, here's what I'm hearing:

1) Fall '72 PW playing "Imaginary Diseases"
2) FZ rap about imaginary diseases (3/24/73?)
3) spastic guitar in C (sounds like a Cosmik Debris coda)
4) Pygmy Twylyte riff in G
5) spastic guitar in G
6) guitar grunt

#3 could be from fall '72 or '73. How about #4?

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189064 ] Do, 22 Dezember 2005 01:55
Peter Harrington  
Here is the track list. I think it is 72 and the petite wazoo band.

http://stores.musictoday.com/store/dept.asp?band_id=1153& ;dept_id=8495&sfid=2

Happy Holidaze,

Pete

<pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135208827.572771.111580 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Okay, here's what I'm hearing:
>
> 1) Fall '72 PW playing "Imaginary Diseases"
> 2) FZ rap about imaginary diseases (3/24/73?)
> 3) spastic guitar in C (sounds like a Cosmik Debris coda)
> 4) Pygmy Twylyte riff in G
> 5) spastic guitar in G
> 6) guitar grunt
>
> #3 could be from fall '72 or '73. How about #4?
>
> Pat Buzby
> Chicago, IL
>
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189066 ] Do, 22 Dezember 2005 02:11
pbuzby2002  
Pete wrote:
> Here is the track list. I think it is 72 and the petite wazoo band.
>
> http://stores.musictoday.com/store/dept.asp?band_id=1153& ;dept_id=8495&sfid=2

Yep, saw that. (I gather that we have three items from the PW's
regular repertoire, two improvs available on audience tapes and a
third, from the first show of that lineup, which has not circulated.)

Since the 3/24/73 sample is presumably not part of the CD (unless it's
a hidden track), that made me curious about the other clips on the
site.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189069 ] Do, 22 Dezember 2005 05:04
zutbof  
pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com a =E9crit :

> Pete wrote:
> > Here is the track list. I think it is 72 and the petite wazoo band.
> >
> > http://stores.musictoday.com/store/dept.asp?band_id=3D1153&a mp;dept_id=3D84=
95&sfid=3D2
>
> Yep, saw that. (I gather that we have three items from the PW's
> regular repertoire, two improvs available on audience tapes and a
> third, from the first show of that lineup, which has not circulated.)
>
> Since the 3/24/73 sample is presumably not part of the CD (unless it's
> a hidden track), that made me curious about the other clips on the
> site.
>
> Pat Buzby
> Chicago, IL

Thanks for the informations Pat. I am verry happy ZFT finaly onpen the
machine YES!! :))))
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189078 ] Do, 22 Dezember 2005 11:01
Amlyn  
Do ya think this will be an entire concert or a collage of PW tracks like
YCDTOSA?


<pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135213918.728450.87440 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Pete wrote:
> > Here is the track list. I think it is 72 and the petite wazoo band.
> >
> >
http://stores.musictoday.com/store/dept.asp?band_id=1153& ;dept_id=8495&sfid=2
>
> Yep, saw that. (I gather that we have three items from the PW's
> regular repertoire, two improvs available on audience tapes and a
> third, from the first show of that lineup, which has not circulated.)
>
> Since the 3/24/73 sample is presumably not part of the CD (unless it's
> a hidden track), that made me curious about the other clips on the
> site.
>
> Pat Buzby
> Chicago, IL
>
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189088 ] Do, 22 Dezember 2005 15:04
pbuzby2002  
Amlyn wrote:
> Do ya think this will be an entire concert or a collage of PW tracks like
> YCDTOSA?

The latter. (Note that Montreal, D.C. and Kansas City are mentioned in
the track titles, suggesting that the tracks come from those cities.
In the case of D.C. and Kansas City, these titles seem to describe
improvs which are on the circulating audience tapes. See
home.swipnet.se/fzshows or Charles Ulrich's site.)

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189095 ] Fr, 23 Dezember 2005 01:48
Dan Buxbaum  
pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>>Do ya think this will be an entire concert or a collage of PW tracks like
>>YCDTOSA?
>
>
> The latter. (Note that Montreal, D.C. and Kansas City are mentioned in
> the track titles, suggesting that the tracks come from those cities.
> In the case of D.C. and Kansas City, these titles seem to describe
> improvs which are on the circulating audience tapes. See
> home.swipnet.se/fzshows or Charles Ulrich's site.)
>
> Pat Buzby
> Chicago, IL
>

Hmmm.... improvs. I don't think i've heard any of the material that's
going to be on this.
I hope at least some tracks feature some choice guitar soloing. (If
there had been a known-guitar-solo-song like Montana on there then I'd
know fer sure with that one at least.)

Did the PW version(s) of Farther Oblivion feature a gtr. solo? (I know
the '73 versions usually did not.) Should at least be an "epic" right?

Interesting that if this is an FZ edited/compiled job that it sat around
for so long--wonder why. (Hope FZ wasn't "withholden" with some good
guitaring bits--it seems with his own compilations that he would like to
include alittle bit of everything: singing stuff, improvs, good soloing
vehicles, etc.)

I'd still probably prefer an unedited documentation (since it appears
you'd have at least three PW shows recorded to work from) rather than a
"collage" but this still seems like a good one [from the glory years of
'72-'75] & for that alone i give it a: "Holy Mother of Jim Gordon!"

(You could probably fit most of a PW full concert on one cd, but this is
certainly better than nuthin' from this time period.)
--
track length times might be nice to include on the website as well.
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189096 ] Fr, 23 Dezember 2005 01:36
Chris West  
In article <1135213918.728450.87440 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com writes
>
>Pete wrote:
>> Here is the track list. I think it is 72 and the petite wazoo band.
>>
>> http://stores.musictoday.com/store/dept.asp?band_id=1153& ;dept_id=8495&sfid=2
>
>Yep, saw that. (I gather that we have three items from the PW's
>regular repertoire, two improvs available on audience tapes and a
>third, from the first show of that lineup, which has not circulated.)
>
>Since the 3/24/73 sample is presumably not part of the CD (unless it's
>a hidden track), that made me curious about the other clips on the
>site.


My guess is that the 1973 Imaginary Diseases speech will be used as an
imaginary intro before the 1972 Imaginary Diseases performance. BTW does
Imaginary Diseases remind anyone else of San Berdino or is it just me?
--
Chris West
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189097 ] Fr, 23 Dezember 2005 04:27
pbuzby2002  
Dan Buxbaum wrote:
> Hmmm.... improvs. I don't think i've heard any of the material that's
> going to be on this.
> I hope at least some tracks feature some choice guitar soloing. (If
> there had been a known-guitar-solo-song like Montana on there then I'd
> know fer sure with that one at least.)

The title song features some cool FZ soloing. (At least it does on the
unofficial tapes.)

Check out Charles Ulrich's PW page
(http://members.shaw.ca/fz-pomd/wazoo/pwindex.html).

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189101 ] Fr, 23 Dezember 2005 11:06
Joachim Ott  
Chris West wrote:

> BTW does Imaginary Diseases remind anyone else of San Berdino or is it just me?

It reminds me of Stinkfoot. San Berdino is a synonym for potatos (or
potatoes, if you like).
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189102 ] Fr, 23 Dezember 2005 12:16
Chris West  
In article <1135332407.028335.215010 [at] f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Joachim Ott <Joachim.Ott [at] gmail.com> writes
>Chris West wrote:
>
>> BTW does Imaginary Diseases remind anyone else of San Berdino or is
>>it just me?
>
>It reminds me of Stinkfoot. San Berdino is a synonym for potatos (or
>potatoes, if you like).

I don't mean the title. I mean the music has the same rhythm as San
Berdino.

--
Chris West
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #189103 ] Fr, 23 Dezember 2005 12:19
Chris West  
In article <1135308453.762286.313810 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
pbuzby2002 [at] yahoo.com writes
>
>Dan Buxbaum wrote:
>> Hmmm.... improvs. I don't think i've heard any of the material that's
>> going to be on this.
>> I hope at least some tracks feature some choice guitar soloing. (If
>> there had been a known-guitar-solo-song like Montana on there then I'd
>> know fer sure with that one at least.)
>
>The title song features some cool FZ soloing. (At least it does on the
>unofficial tapes.)

That's right. Imaginary Diseases is one long guitar solo sandwiched
between two run-throughs of the short melody you hear in the advert.

There aren't guitar solos in the versions of Farther Oblivion I've
heard, but there may be a cool tuba solo. Apart from that, it's the same
form as the 1973 performances.

I suppose it's possible that Montreal may be a version of Montana...

--
Chris West
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #192254 ] Fr, 23 Dezember 2005 19:51
miRthkon  
When I first heard the Imaginary Diseases rap from the samples on the
spifnificent site I thought it was the 73 band, but listen closely. At
first, the sound of some kind of keyboard instrument confused me, since
no keyboard players or instruments are listed in the personnel for the
new disc. Thus, I figured it was George Duke playing electric piano
with the 73 band. But, if you listen closely, you'll hear that it's an
acoustic piano. I'm almost positive Duke never had an acoustic with
him on that tour, just another 1 or 2 tons of gear to add to his
already burdensome rig (clavinet, rhodes, all those synths = VERY
HEAVY). Also, there is a moment when it sounds like the entire band is
building up a big texture behind Frank, and it sounds like a much
larger band than 73. Keep in mind, the only brass in the 73 band was
Sal Marquez (who left midway through the tour) and Bruce Fowler.
Sounds like several more brass intsruments to me. But who's playing
piano? Maybe it's the Grand Wazoo band? If I recall, Duke *was* a
part of the "Grand" version of the lineup. Or am I mistaken?
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #192255 ] Fr, 23 Dezember 2005 20:16
-&quot; &lt;sc003d910  
Seems to be 73 according to this post by Joe Travers on the Zappa.com
forum...

<quote>
Hi everyone & happy birthday FZ!

Just wanted to drop you guys a line, it's excting that FINALLY we have some
Petit Wazoo to listen to. This release, Imaginary Diseases, are all
selections from the vault that were hand-picked & mixed by FZ over a period
of a few years during the 70's. All official, all FZ, all Petit Wazoo. AND
mastered by legendary mastering engineer Doug Sax. What a treat it was
working with him.
When I first became the vaultmeister, one of the very first projects I chose
to do was to document the tapes from this paticular touring band. It's been
a very challenging & ongoing task and I'm VERY excited to see material from
this line-up become avaliable. Enjoy & remember...Music Is The Best!
P.S....For those of you particular hardcores out there, the Imaginary
Diseases lecture excerpt you hear on the flash page IS from San Diego '73. A
gift for you....from GZ.
Merry Xmas & Happy 2006 from the Vaultmeister!!
Joe Travers

<unquote>

cheers

StC







"miRthkon" <wscharold [at] mirthkon.com> wrote in message
news:1135363876.455338.93400 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> When I first heard the Imaginary Diseases rap from the samples on the
> spifnificent site I thought it was the 73 band, but listen closely. At
> first, the sound of some kind of keyboard instrument confused me, since
> no keyboard players or instruments are listed in the personnel for the
> new disc. Thus, I figured it was George Duke playing electric piano
> with the 73 band. But, if you listen closely, you'll hear that it's an
> acoustic piano. I'm almost positive Duke never had an acoustic with
> him on that tour, just another 1 or 2 tons of gear to add to his
> already burdensome rig (clavinet, rhodes, all those synths = VERY
> HEAVY). Also, there is a moment when it sounds like the entire band is
> building up a big texture behind Frank, and it sounds like a much
> larger band than 73. Keep in mind, the only brass in the 73 band was
> Sal Marquez (who left midway through the tour) and Bruce Fowler.
> Sounds like several more brass intsruments to me. But who's playing
> piano? Maybe it's the Grand Wazoo band? If I recall, Duke *was* a
> part of the "Grand" version of the lineup. Or am I mistaken?
>
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #192258 ] Fr, 23 Dezember 2005 21:54
pbuzby2002  
miRthkon wrote:
> Thus, I figured it was George Duke playing electric piano
> with the 73 band. But, if you listen closely, you'll hear that it's an
> acoustic piano. I'm almost positive Duke never had an acoustic with
> him on that tour

He had one on the U.S. spring '73 and Australia summer '73 shows;
perhaps on Piquantique (Europe summer '73), too, although my memory is
failing me there. AFAIK, this was the only time FZ took an acoustic
piano on the road.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #192325 ] Di, 27 Dezember 2005 07:48
Charles Ulrich  
In article <jpKdnX8moNc-1DbeRVn-jw [at] rcn.net>,
Dan Buxbaum <dandor [at] erols.com> wrote:

> Hmmm.... improvs. I don't think i've heard any of the material that's
> going to be on this.
> I hope at least some tracks feature some choice guitar soloing. (If
> there had been a known-guitar-solo-song like Montana on there then I'd
> know fer sure with that one at least.)
>
> Did the PW version(s) of Farther Oblivion feature a gtr. solo? (I know
> the '73 versions usually did not.) Should at least be an "epic" right?

FZ played a guitar solo in Farther Oblivion at least once (11/11/72 late
Washington).

As Pat mentioned, FZ regularly played a guitar solo in Imaginary
Diseases.

FZ played two guitar solos in the 32-minute improvisation that is
presumably the source of D. C. Boogie. However, the released version is
probably edited, so it may include only one of these solos.

FZ played three guitar solos in the 13-minute improvisation that is
presumably the source of Been To Kansas City In A Minor. Again, the
released version may be edited and so may not include all three solos.

Montreal may or may not contain a guitar solo. If, as Chris suggested,
it's a retitled Montana, then it almost certainly does. (By the way,
this would have been the very first performance of Montana.)

Tony Duran regularly played a slide guitar solo in Rollo, if that counts.

--Charles
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #192326 ] Di, 27 Dezember 2005 07:56
Charles Ulrich  
In article <1135363876.455338.93400 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"miRthkon" <wscharold [at] mirthkon.com> wrote:

> When I first heard the Imaginary Diseases rap from the samples on the
> spifnificent site I thought it was the 73 band, but listen closely. At
> first, the sound of some kind of keyboard instrument confused me, since
> no keyboard players or instruments are listed in the personnel for the
> new disc. Thus, I figured it was George Duke playing electric piano
> with the 73 band. But, if you listen closely, you'll hear that it's an
> acoustic piano. I'm almost positive Duke never had an acoustic with
> him on that tour, just another 1 or 2 tons of gear to add to his
> already burdensome rig (clavinet, rhodes, all those synths = VERY
> HEAVY).

As Pat pointed out, George did play acoustic piano in 1973 (including
8/21/73 Stockholm--it's audible in Dupree's Paradise on Piquantique).

> Also, there is a moment when it sounds like the entire band is
> building up a big texture behind Frank, and it sounds like a much
> larger band than 73. Keep in mind, the only brass in the 73 band was
> Sal Marquez (who left midway through the tour) and Bruce Fowler.
> Sounds like several more brass intsruments to me. But who's playing
> piano? Maybe it's the Grand Wazoo band? If I recall, Duke *was* a
> part of the "Grand" version of the lineup. Or am I mistaken?

You are mistaken. George Duke (and Don Preston) played keyboards on the
Grand Wazoo album, but Ian Underwood played keyboards on the Grand Wazoo
tour.

--Charles
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #192333 ] Di, 27 Dezember 2005 21:31
pbuzby2002  
Charles Ulrich wrote:

> FZ played three guitar solos in the 13-minute improvisation that is
> presumably the source of Been To Kansas City In A Minor. Again, the
> released version may be edited and so may not include all three solos.

FWIW, I think the second guitar solo was Duran, but the first and last
sound like FZ.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #207773 ] So, 22 Januar 2006 01:18
Milhouse Guidry of th[2]  
Just going back and reading stuff that was said about _ID_ before it was
released...

Charles Ulrich wrote:

> FZ played two guitar solos in the 32-minute improvisation that is
> presumably the source of D. C. Boogie. However, the released version is
> probably edited, so it may include only one of these solos.

Yep. And by that I mean, yeah, it was edited. Only the latter half of
the improv, in 4/4 is on the CD. How much *that* might have been edited,
I don't know, but I'm presuming not that much.

> FZ played three guitar solos in the 13-minute improvisation that is
> presumably the source of Been To Kansas City In A Minor. Again, the
> released version may be edited and so may not include all three solos.

Comparing the audience recording to _ID_ reveals it was edited somewhat.
Almost 13 minutes (aud) compared to 10:15 (officially released.) On my
CD-R copy of the Kansas City late show, the tune begins at about 2:38 of
track one (the preceding portion is the "Johnny's Theme" intro and the
band intros). The music that constitutes "Been to Kansas City in A
Minor" starts at just about the 5:58 mark on my CD-R (or "about two
beats before the trumpet solo begins.") So, the opening bars and the
guitar solo were cut, but the rest is, as far as I can tell, completely
intact.

--
Milhouse Guidry of the mWo
Sometime king of alt.pro-wrestling.dx
I have to pick up a frickin' pie at nine in the morning.

"I apologize and recognize the validity of your argument."
--"Whit Sterling", in one of the more absurdly unlikely
statements in the history of Usenet.

mWo. It's not just the coolest, it's fa lyfe, so survey says
whether you like it or don't like it, never E-e-e-ver tell
me he did *not* just SMELL what mWo 3:16 reeks of.
Re: Imaginary Diseases Samples [message #207775 ] So, 22 Januar 2006 02:30
pbuzby2002  
Milhouse Authentico wrote:
> Just going back and reading stuff that was said about _ID_ before it was
> released...
>
> Charles Ulrich wrote:
>
> > FZ played two guitar solos in the 32-minute improvisation that is
> > presumably the source of D. C. Boogie. However, the released version is
> > probably edited, so it may include only one of these solos.
>
> Yep. And by that I mean, yeah, it was edited. Only the latter half of
> the improv, in 4/4 is on the CD. How much *that* might have been edited,
> I don't know, but I'm presuming not that much.

Charles mentions on his site that the improv lasts 32 minutes and that
FZ's first solo (apparently the point where the CD cut starts) comes in
at 14 minutes. The cut on the CD lasts 13:27, so 4.5 - 5 minutes are
presumably missing. I think I can hear a few splices.

The Kansas City blues joins the cut in progress as you mention and
fades, but I don't hear any edits other than that.

Montreal also apparently starts in progress, and I think there's an
edit after FZ's announcement.

Aside from Farther Oblivion, I didn't notice edits in the other track.

Pat Buzby
Chicago, IL
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