| Re: The failures of Elendil's secret service [message #15549] |
Mo, 04 April 2005 10:56 |
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On 22 Jun 2004 13:30:24 -0700, Michael [at] xenite.org (Michael Martinez)
wrote:
>It would appear, based on the properties ascribed to the stones in
>UNFINISHED TALES OF NUMENOR AND MIDDLE-EARTH, the Numenorean exiles
>came to relyr upon, in part, the Palantiri for acquiring their
>intelligence about the wider world.
>
>It may therefore be significant that both Rhudaur and Cardolan,
>neither of whom controlled a Palantir (or only briefly controlled the
>one at Amon Sul), were defeated by Angmar before Arthedain was.
That is possible, but unlikely. It was probably more significant that
both Rhudaur & Cardolan were much closer to Angmar than Arthedain was.
It was therefore easier for Angmar to launch raids upon and/or corrupt
the men of Rhudaur & Cardolan. This proximity could work for or
against the Dunedain of Rhudaur & Cardolan, of course. They were more
vulnerable, but it was also easier for them to gather intelligence on
Angmar. Even if the Kings in Fornost used the palantir to keep watch
on Angmar, they would still have to dispatch messages to their field
commanders and alert their forces. That is why I am inclined to think
that Rhudaur & Cardolan were destroyed only after a significant
portion of the population became corrupted.
>
>Gondor relaxed its watch over Mordor after the Great Plague of 1636,
>but did the Kings of Gondor use the Palantiri to keep an eye on
>Mordor?
Why would they? None of the Kings ever realized that Sauron had
survived and had established a stronghold in Mirkwood. I suppose they
may have deemed it necessary to keep an eye on the fertile lands
surrounding Lake Nurnen, but Gogoroth and the adjacent lands were too
simply too desolate to support any armies. I suspect that the
Stewards were too busy dealing with the Southrons & Easterlings to
spare more than an occasional glance at Mordor. I am not saying that
it is impossible or unlikely, merely that it was probably low on the
King's list of priorities.
> Minas Ithil remained a stronghold and outpost of Gondor for
>almost 350 years after the Great Plague, but it was apparently
>incapable of repelling the assaults mounted by the Nazgul against it.
>
>Gondor had helped to destroy Angmar in 1975, but in 2002 Gondor
>couldn't drive back the forces of Mordor from one of its most ancient
>cities. How is that?
I may be wrong, but my impression is that much of the strength of
Gondor in that war had been gathered from Rhonvanion and had been
dispersed after the Angmar had been destroyed. (It is possible that
many of those who partook in the battle between Nenuial and the North
Downs perished before the cavalry arrived.) Remember also how long it
took Earnil to gather his strength when Ardevui begged Gondor for aid.
I also suspect that the Nazgul took the sensible precaution of
launching diversionary attacks from the Harad and Umbar or at least
mustered sufficient forces to threaten Gondor. Earnil would have been
forced to disperse his forces and hence may have lacked sufficient
strength to break the siege of Minas Ithil.
Geography may have also had a critical role. Recall that Minas Ithil
was located at the far end of a valley enclosed by mountain walls on
three sides. If the Nazgul could successfully block the entrance to
the valley--they already held the pass of Cirith Ungol--and could
successfully repel any attempt to break the siege, then it was just a
matter of time before the citizens of Minas Ithil were slain or
starved. It is difficult to say whether this was feasible. I suspect
that much would have depended upon the quality of the troops that the
Nazgul committed to the siege. I too wonder why Earnil never
recaptured Minas Ithil. The palantir was certainly a prize worthy of
a military assault.
>
>Was no one looking in the Palantiri?
>
>The siege of Minas Ithil lasted approximately 2 years. That should
>have been sufficient time for Earnil to raise an army capable of
>driving back even a moderately powerful enemy.
>
>Why did Gondor fail to retake Minas Ithil? Why did Mordor succeed?
>Did Earnil look into the Palantir, perhaps, and see an endless sea of
>Orcs and Trolls waiting to emerge from Mordor? Then why didn't Sauron
>reclaim his lost realm at that time?
It is only speculation, but perhaps the siege was intermittent rather
than ongoing? I think it is more plausible that Minas Ithil was
conquered simply because the defenders lost hope rather than being
overwhelmed by force alone (much as Minas Tirith was nearly conquered
in the War of the Ring.) I can imagine that it would be far more
terrifying for the defenders if they never knew when the Nazgul would
strike. We also do not know exactly what weapons the Nazgul wielded.
If they had weapons similar to the Morgul-knife that wounded Frodo and
if they used such weapons at the most advantageous moments, then they
could destroy Gondor's best warriors and thereby demoralize the
defenders. Moreover, the Nazgul could have poisoned the streams that
watered the valley. There is also always the possibility of
treachery. There may have still been isolated communities of the Black
Numenoreans in the Harad and there were the rebels in Umbar. It would
have been relatively simple to employ these renegades in a clever
ruse--especially if the garrison at Minas Ithil was expecting relief
or reinforcements from Minas Anor.
I don't think that Sauron felt strong enough to reoccupy Mordor at
that time. He fled from Dol Guldur into the East when Gandalf came by
for a visit a mere sixty-one years after the fall of Minas Ithil.
Perhaps Sauron wish to stay in Dol Guldur because he still hoped to
find the Ring somewhere near the Gladden Fields.
Morgoth's Curse
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