|
|
Science Fiction » alt.startrek » Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk
| Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180059] |
Di, 13 Dezember 2005 22:05 |
|
6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving Bailey
behind with Balok.
5) Not really a command decision, but more of a lapse in command:
Kirk's falling in love with the female android and generally behaving
like an agonized love-sick teenager ("Requiem For Methesula")
4) Persuading his senior officers to go along with the mind-body switch
in "Return to Tomorrow".
3) Sending a shuttlecraft team to investigate the quasar in "The
Galileo 7". Yes, he did have standing orders from Starfleet to
investigate all quasar-like activity, but he also had priority orders
from the Federation to send medical supplies to a plague-ridden colony.
Kirk should have known that if something went wrong with the mission,
the quasar would hinder attempts to communicate and rescue. He also
knew about the tight deadline for transporting the medical supplies.
The Federation guy, though he was a creepy jerk, was right when he said
Kirk should never have sent the team in the first place.
2) Failing to follow Starfleet procedure, "General Order 12": Don't
approach another Starfleet vessel unless communiations have first been
established. ("The Wrath Of Khan")
1) Relegating Khan and his crew to Ceti Alpha 5 instead of bringing
them in chains to a Starbase. (A move which would come back to haunt
Kirk in "The Wrath Of Khan".)
Shnaggletooth
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180060 ] |
Di, 13 Dezember 2005 22:35 |
|
shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> 6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
> Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving Bailey
> behind with Balok.
>
> 5) Not really a command decision, but more of a lapse in command:
> Kirk's falling in love with the female android and generally behaving
> like an agonized love-sick teenager ("Requiem For Methesula")
>
> 4) Persuading his senior officers to go along with the mind-body switch
> in "Return to Tomorrow".
>
> 3) Sending a shuttlecraft team to investigate the quasar in "The
> Galileo 7". Yes, he did have standing orders from Starfleet to
> investigate all quasar-like activity, but he also had priority orders
> from the Federation to send medical supplies to a plague-ridden colony.
> Kirk should have known that if something went wrong with the mission,
> the quasar would hinder attempts to communicate and rescue. He also
> knew about the tight deadline for transporting the medical supplies.
> The Federation guy, though he was a creepy jerk, was right when he said
> Kirk should never have sent the team in the first place.
>
> 2) Failing to follow Starfleet procedure, "General Order 12": Don't
> approach another Starfleet vessel unless communiations have first been
> established. ("The Wrath Of Khan")
>
> 1) Relegating Khan and his crew to Ceti Alpha 5 instead of bringing
> them in chains to a Starbase. (A move which would come back to haunt
> Kirk in "The Wrath Of Khan".)
I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy Hedford were
disposed of.
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180061 ] |
Di, 13 Dezember 2005 23:13 |
|
5) Not really a command decision, but more of a lapse in command:
Kirk's falling in love with the female android and generally behaving
like an agonized love-sick teenager ("Requiem For Methesula")
Yes, but he didn't realise she was an Android until it was too late.
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180062 ] |
Di, 13 Dezember 2005 23:31 |
|
"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> > 6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
> > Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving Bailey
> > behind with Balok.
> >
> > 5) Not really a command decision, but more of a lapse in command:
> > Kirk's falling in love with the female android and generally behaving
> > like an agonized love-sick teenager ("Requiem For Methesula")
> >
> > 4) Persuading his senior officers to go along with the mind-body switch
> > in "Return to Tomorrow".
> >
> > 3) Sending a shuttlecraft team to investigate the quasar in "The
> > Galileo 7". Yes, he did have standing orders from Starfleet to
> > investigate all quasar-like activity, but he also had priority orders
> > from the Federation to send medical supplies to a plague-ridden colony.
> > Kirk should have known that if something went wrong with the mission,
> > the quasar would hinder attempts to communicate and rescue. He also
> > knew about the tight deadline for transporting the medical supplies.
> > The Federation guy, though he was a creepy jerk, was right when he said
> > Kirk should never have sent the team in the first place.
> >
> > 2) Failing to follow Starfleet procedure, "General Order 12": Don't
> > approach another Starfleet vessel unless communiations have first been
> > established. ("The Wrath Of Khan")
> >
> > 1) Relegating Khan and his crew to Ceti Alpha 5 instead of bringing
> > them in chains to a Starbase. (A move which would come back to haunt
> > Kirk in "The Wrath Of Khan".)
>
> I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy Hedford were
> disposed of.
>
> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's genocide"
approach on Deneva :)
I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her, reanimates her, and
she's stuck forever on an asteroid with a man she's never met before. Not
really a result for poor Nancy, is it?
Ian
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180063 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 00:06 |
|
"Jaxtraw" <jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote in message
news:439f4a9f$0$23278$db0fefd9 [at] news.zen.co.uk...
>
> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her, reanimates her,
> and
> she's stuck forever on an asteroid with a man she's never met before. Not
> really a result for poor Nancy, is it?
>
> Ian
>
>
Well, it was better than the alternative.
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180064 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 03:12 |
|
Captain Pike agreed to spend his the rest of his days with the
Talosians, so I think everything worked out for the best. What I find
implausible was how Commodore Menendez chose not to pursue charges
against Spock. I mean, all he did was merely commandeer the Enterprise,
issue false orders, kidnap Captain Pike, assault Starbase personnel,
etc., etc. ;)
Shnaggletooth
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180065 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 03:14 |
|
It was mind-blowing that Kirk, Spock, and McCoy didn't seem disturbed
by what eventually became of Nancy Hedford. You're right -- poor Nancy.
Shnaggletooth
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180066 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 03:17 |
|
True. Except for maybe "Obsession", I don't think Kirk ever lost his
command composure as much as he did on this episode. ("Losing it"
without the work of an alien or illness, that is).
Shnaggletooth
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180067 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 03:44 |
|
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Jaxtraw wrote:
> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her...
Wrong. Please watch the episode again.
The Companion does not kill,
Robert Bernardo
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180068 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 03:53 |
|
Captain Kundalini wrote:
> "Jaxtraw" <jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote in message
> news:439f4a9f$0$23278$db0fefd9 [at] news.zen.co.uk...
>
>>I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her, reanimates her,
>>and
>>she's stuck forever on an asteroid with a man she's never met before. Not
>>really a result for poor Nancy, is it?
>>
>>Ian
>>
>>
>
>
> Well, it was better than the alternative.
What alternative? IMHO the best alternative would be for Hedford to
have made it to the ship in time for her life to be saved. By the time
the companion took over her body, Hedford was dead. That for her was
the least attractive "alternative".
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180069 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 03:56 |
|
shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> Captain Pike agreed to spend his the rest of his days with the
> Talosians, so I think everything worked out for the best.
That doesn't change the fact that Spock committed all kinds of crimes
against his comrades to get him there.
I really hated that whole episode. Pike said "NO" more than he said
"YES". How come his yes counts and his many noes don't? Where is the
logic in that?
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180070 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 03:56 |
|
shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> It was mind-blowing that Kirk, Spock, and McCoy didn't seem disturbed
> by what eventually became of Nancy Hedford. You're right -- poor Nancy.
Thank you.
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180071 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 04:01 |
|
Captain Kundalini wrote:
> 5) Not really a command decision, but more of a lapse in command:
> Kirk's falling in love with the female android and generally behaving
> like an agonized love-sick teenager ("Requiem For Methesula")
>
> Yes, but he didn't realise she was an Android until it was too late.
Kirk was so completely not himself in that episode that I am forced to
wonder what was in that brandy that they drank.
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180072 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 04:07 |
|
Robert Bernardo wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Jaxtraw wrote:
>
>> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her...
>
>
> Wrong. Please watch the episode again.
::Snort!::
The companion let her die, when it had the power to heal her, and keep
her alive indefinitely. It kidnapped her (which kept her from the
healing help that the Enterprise offered), let her die (even though it
had the power to heal her), and then STOLE HER STILL-WARM FLESH and
reanimated it with its own spirit.
Motive? Love for Cochran. The companion could give him everything
except sex. Well, with this episode, that problem was solved.... to
poor Hedford's detriment.
We have motive, we have the murder weapon, we have the body... all we
don't have is a decent funeral for the real Nancy Hedford.
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180073 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 04:17 |
|
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Laura wrote:
> The companion let her die...
Please watch the episode again. The Companion sacrificed its self
to become one with Nancy and thus in saving her life, the Companion became
mortal. The Companion did not have to do that.
No zombie or legal theories involved,
Robert Bernardo
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180074 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 04:27 |
|
"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:9oWdnQtvvLHTEQLenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> Robert Bernardo wrote:
> > On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Jaxtraw wrote:
> >
> >> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her...
> >
> >
> > Wrong. Please watch the episode again.
>
> ::Snort!::
>
> The companion let her die, when it had the power to heal her, and keep
> her alive indefinitely. It kidnapped her (which kept her from the
> healing help that the Enterprise offered), let her die (even though it
> had the power to heal her), and then STOLE HER STILL-WARM FLESH and
> reanimated it with its own spirit.
>
> Motive? Love for Cochran. The companion could give him everything
> except sex. Well, with this episode, that problem was solved.... to
> poor Hedford's detriment.
>
> We have motive, we have the murder weapon, we have the body... all we
> don't have is a decent funeral for the real Nancy Hedford.
Indeed.
One thing- does she actually die before being reanimated or does the
Companion join with her before she dies? I got the impression it "saves" her
at the brink of death by joining with her. Of course it's only saving her
from the completely avoidable fate it caused by its own actions, anyway.
The reasoning behind the story is easy enough to see. It's a parable about
loneliness- better to die than live alone. Hedford's life is portrayed as
worthless because it is incomplete (because she doesn't have a nice young
man in it). Only when she gets her nice young man (Cochrane) is she truly
alive- the Companion (from the script's POV) has given her a gift she could
never have before- a life (growing vegetables on a grim asteroid which is
her effective prison) with a nice young man. As such her "bad" life before
is considered utterly expendable and that's why it's not even acknowledged
at the end.
So it's 1960s values that make it to us 21st century folks seem rather
distasteful, it seems to me. I doubt anyone involved in bringing it to the
screen thought it was anything other than a nice love story, at the time.
ISTM that the theme of loneliness is a surprisingly strong recurrent theme
in TOS. Not only do we have Jimbo complaining about his own loneliness, it
features in several episodes as a major theme in its own right; All Our
Yesterdays (how did such a good script get into season 3?), Requiem For
Methuselah ("loneliness is a flower, thirsting in the desert" or whatever
that line is) and, uhm, several others I can't think of right now. Even dear
old Apollo is just plain lonely, when you get down to it.
Ian
--
www.jaxtrawstudios.com
science fiction with naughty stuff within
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180075 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 04:29 |
|
<shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1134526671.893925.272100 [at] f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> True. Except for maybe "Obsession", I don't think Kirk ever lost his
> command composure as much as he did on this episode. ("Losing it"
> without the work of an alien or illness, that is).
>
> Shnaggletooth
>
You're forgetting his awesome freakout in the turbolift in And The Children
Shall Lead. Never has a starship captain been so bereft of command
composure.
Ian
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180076 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 04:41 |
|
Robert Bernardo wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Laura wrote:
>
>> The companion let her die...
>
>
> Please watch the episode again. The Companion sacrificed its self
> to become one with Nancy and thus in saving her life, the Companion
> became mortal. The Companion did not have to do that.
::sigh::
The companion had a choice. The companion had all the power in that
situation.
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180077 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 04:50 |
|
"Robert Bernardo" <rbernardo [at] iglou.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.61.0512132213120.18517 [at] shell1...
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Laura wrote:
>
> > The companion let her die...
>
> Please watch the episode again. The Companion sacrificed its self
> to become one with Nancy and thus in saving her life, the Companion became
> mortal. The Companion did not have to do that.
The only reason Hedford's life was in peril was because the Companion held
her captive. Her disease was curable, had she been allowed to reach the
Enterprise.
Ian
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180078 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 04:47 |
|
Jaxtraw wrote:
> One thing- does she actually die before being reanimated or does the
> Companion join with her before she dies? I got the impression it "saves" her
> at the brink of death by joining with her.
Why take the companion's word for it? Is IT a reliable source of
unbiased information?
> Of course it's only saving her
> from the completely avoidable fate it caused by its own actions, anyway.
You know? Seriously!
> The reasoning behind the story is easy enough to see.
Oh, sure. BUT IT SUCKED.
> So it's 1960s values that make it to us 21st century folks seem rather
> distasteful, it seems to me. I doubt anyone involved in bringing it to the
> screen thought it was anything other than a nice love story, at the time.
Well, actually, aside from the Hedford controversy, it's deeper than
that. The ep actually has many virtues.
Pardon me, while I pimp my parody:
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/metamorph.htm
I believe I do make a few serious points, there.
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180079 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 05:18 |
|
Jaxtraw wrote:
> The only reason Hedford's life was in peril was because the Companion held
> her captive. Her disease was curable, had she been allowed to reach the
> Enterprise.
Heck yes! The companion had the power to cure her, too!
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180080 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 05:25 |
|
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005, Jaxtraw wrote:
> I got the impression it "saves" her at the brink of death by joining with her.
Correct. During her talk with Cochran, the Companion/Hedford
explains that.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180081 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 05:27 |
|
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Laura wrote:
> The companion had a choice.
Right. The Companion chose self-sacrifice.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180082 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 05:29 |
|
On Wed, 14 Dec 2005, Jaxtraw wrote:
> The only reason Hedford's life was in peril was because the Companion held
> her captive.
Which the Companion did not realize until it was explained to her
by Kirk.
Nobody's perfect (a line used
several times in the Trek movies),
Robert Bernardo
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180083 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 07:10 |
|
shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> Captain Pike agreed to spend his the rest of his days with the
> Talosians, so I think everything worked out for the best. What I find
> implausible was how Commodore Menendez chose not to pursue charges
> against Spock. I mean, all he did was merely commandeer the
> Enterprise, issue false orders, kidnap Captain Pike, assault Starbase
> personnel, etc., etc. ;)
>
> Shnaggletooth
Except it wasn't Commodore Menendez on board the Enteprise, just another
Talosian illusion.
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180084 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 15:16 |
|
shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
: 4) Persuading his senior officers to go along with the mind-body switch
: in "Return to Tomorrow".
But it such a fantastic speech!
Brad
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180085 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 15:18 |
|
Jaxtraw (jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com) wrote:
: "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
: news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
: > shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
: > > 6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
: > > Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving Bailey
: > > behind with Balok.
: > >
: > > 5) Not really a command decision, but more of a lapse in command:
: > > Kirk's falling in love with the female android and generally behaving
: > > like an agonized love-sick teenager ("Requiem For Methesula")
: > >
: > > 4) Persuading his senior officers to go along with the mind-body switch
: > > in "Return to Tomorrow".
: > >
: > > 3) Sending a shuttlecraft team to investigate the quasar in "The
: > > Galileo 7". Yes, he did have standing orders from Starfleet to
: > > investigate all quasar-like activity, but he also had priority orders
: > > from the Federation to send medical supplies to a plague-ridden colony.
: > > Kirk should have known that if something went wrong with the mission,
: > > the quasar would hinder attempts to communicate and rescue. He also
: > > knew about the tight deadline for transporting the medical supplies.
: > > The Federation guy, though he was a creepy jerk, was right when he said
: > > Kirk should never have sent the team in the first place.
: > >
: > > 2) Failing to follow Starfleet procedure, "General Order 12": Don't
: > > approach another Starfleet vessel unless communiations have first been
: > > established. ("The Wrath Of Khan")
: > >
: > > 1) Relegating Khan and his crew to Ceti Alpha 5 instead of bringing
: > > them in chains to a Starbase. (A move which would come back to haunt
: > > Kirk in "The Wrath Of Khan".)
: >
: > I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy Hedford were
: > disposed of.
: >
: > http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
: I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's genocide"
: approach on Deneva :)
I have a problem with people calling it genocide when clearly the Denevans
are not the only humans in the universe.
Brad
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180086 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 15:20 |
|
shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
: True. Except for maybe "Obsession", I don't think Kirk ever lost his
: command composure as much as he did on this episode. ("Losing it"
: without the work of an alien or illness, that is).
I take it you're also not including "The Enemy Within," "The Deadly
Years," and "The Paridise Syndrome" either? :)
Brad
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180087 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 15:21 |
|
ToolPackinMama (laura [at] lauragoodwin.org) wrote:
: Captain Kundalini wrote:
: > 5) Not really a command decision, but more of a lapse in command:
: > Kirk's falling in love with the female android and generally behaving
: > like an agonized love-sick teenager ("Requiem For Methesula")
: >
: > Yes, but he didn't realise she was an Android until it was too late.
: Kirk was so completely not himself in that episode that I am forced to
: wonder what was in that brandy that they drank.
McCoy and Spock had some too. ("Can we handle a drunk Vulcan?")
Brad
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180088 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 15:23 |
|
ToolPackinMama (laura [at] lauragoodwin.org) wrote:
: Robert Bernardo wrote:
: > On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Jaxtraw wrote:
: >
: >> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her...
: >
: >
: > Wrong. Please watch the episode again.
: ::Snort!::
: The companion let her die, when it had the power to heal her, and keep
: her alive indefinitely. It kidnapped her (which kept her from the
: healing help that the Enterprise offered), let her die (even though it
: had the power to heal her), and then STOLE HER STILL-WARM FLESH and
: reanimated it with its own spirit.
: Motive? Love for Cochran. The companion could give him everything
: except sex. Well, with this episode, that problem was solved.... to
: poor Hedford's detriment.
: We have motive, we have the murder weapon, we have the body... all we
: don't have is a decent funeral for the real Nancy Hedford.
You know, when you think of it, maybe this was the writer's incentive for
making Nancy such a B**CH! Maybe he thought we wouldn't feel sorry for
her!
Brad
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180089 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 15:51 |
|
"Brad Filippone" <al019 [at] chebucto.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:dnp9k2$m85$5 [at] News.Dal.Ca...
> Jaxtraw (jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com) wrote:
> : "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
> : news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
> : > shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> : > > 6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
> : > > Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving Bailey
> : > > behind with Balok.
> : > >
> : > > 5) Not really a command decision, but more of a lapse in command:
> : > > Kirk's falling in love with the female android and generally
behaving
> : > > like an agonized love-sick teenager ("Requiem For Methesula")
> : > >
> : > > 4) Persuading his senior officers to go along with the mind-body
switch
> : > > in "Return to Tomorrow".
> : > >
> : > > 3) Sending a shuttlecraft team to investigate the quasar in "The
> : > > Galileo 7". Yes, he did have standing orders from Starfleet to
> : > > investigate all quasar-like activity, but he also had priority
orders
> : > > from the Federation to send medical supplies to a plague-ridden
colony.
> : > > Kirk should have known that if something went wrong with the
mission,
> : > > the quasar would hinder attempts to communicate and rescue. He also
> : > > knew about the tight deadline for transporting the medical supplies.
> : > > The Federation guy, though he was a creepy jerk, was right when he
said
> : > > Kirk should never have sent the team in the first place.
> : > >
> : > > 2) Failing to follow Starfleet procedure, "General Order 12": Don't
> : > > approach another Starfleet vessel unless communiations have first
been
> : > > established. ("The Wrath Of Khan")
> : > >
> : > > 1) Relegating Khan and his crew to Ceti Alpha 5 instead of bringing
> : > > them in chains to a Starbase. (A move which would come back to haunt
> : > > Kirk in "The Wrath Of Khan".)
> : >
> : > I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy Hedford
were
> : > disposed of.
> : >
> : > http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
>
> : I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
genocide"
> : approach on Deneva :)
>
> I have a problem with people calling it genocide when clearly the Denevans
> are not the only humans in the universe.
>
> Brad
Genocide is hard to define exactly but generally means the destruction of a
people based on who they are, generally by nationality/ethnicity. The Jews
aren't the only humans in the universe either, but the Holocaust is
generally considered to be an act of genocide.
However, rather than argue, I'd be happy to accept that Kirk was considering
simply an immense act of mass murder (with far less justification than, say,
Kodos the Executioner had, who was faced with the impossible choice between
all the colonists starving to death, or euthanising half to allow the other
half a chance of survival. AFAICT, based on the infomation given in The
Consicience Of The King, Kodos made the right choice)).
Ian
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180090 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 15:53 |
|
"Brad Filippone" <al019 [at] chebucto.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:dnp9gr$m85$4 [at] News.Dal.Ca...
> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> : 4) Persuading his senior officers to go along with the mind-body switch
> : in "Return to Tomorrow".
>
> But it such a fantastic speech!
>
> Brad
Risk IS our BUSINESS!
Whaddaguy :)
Ian
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180091 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 18:17 |
|
Robert Bernardo wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Laura wrote:
>
>> The companion let her die...
>
>
> Please watch the episode again. The Companion sacrificed its self
> to become one with Nancy and thus in saving her life, the Companion
> became mortal. The Companion did not have to do that.
>
> No zombie or legal theories involved,
> Robert Bernardo
Indeed.
I haven't seen the episode in a long time, but I thought I remembered
that Nancy didn't actually die, she was this close >< to dying, but the
Companion sacrificed itself to save her, and they were both in there.
Not that the Companion just possessed a dead body.
And overall, it was a LOVE story--the Companion *would* have left the
planet/asteroid/whatever if Cochrane wanted to (it seems she didn't have
any reason to go back though, no family or anything)--she just would
have died if she did so. Or at least that's the impression I remember--
both of them sacrificed for each other ("Gift of the Magi"?) and both
were content to remain behind with each other.
This was always one of my favorite episodes. :-)
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180092 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 18:57 |
|
A biggie for me would have been not confiding in the Mirror Spock in "Mirror
Mirror." MirSpock would have eventually come to the conclusion that Kirk and
Co. wasn't HIS Kirk and Co.. He seemed more of a natural order type of guy
and figured Kirk didn't belong there as much as MirKirk didn't belong where
he was and probably would have agreed to the plan to send Kirk and Co. back.
<shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1134507905.887721.20140 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> 6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
> Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving Bailey
> behind with Balok.
>
> 5) Not really a command decision, but more of a lapse in command:
> Kirk's falling in love with the female android and generally behaving
> like an agonized love-sick teenager ("Requiem For Methesula")
>
> 4) Persuading his senior officers to go along with the mind-body switch
> in "Return to Tomorrow".
>
> 3) Sending a shuttlecraft team to investigate the quasar in "The
> Galileo 7". Yes, he did have standing orders from Starfleet to
> investigate all quasar-like activity, but he also had priority orders
> from the Federation to send medical supplies to a plague-ridden colony.
> Kirk should have known that if something went wrong with the mission,
> the quasar would hinder attempts to communicate and rescue. He also
> knew about the tight deadline for transporting the medical supplies.
> The Federation guy, though he was a creepy jerk, was right when he said
> Kirk should never have sent the team in the first place.
>
> 2) Failing to follow Starfleet procedure, "General Order 12": Don't
> approach another Starfleet vessel unless communiations have first been
> established. ("The Wrath Of Khan")
>
> 1) Relegating Khan and his crew to Ceti Alpha 5 instead of bringing
> them in chains to a Starbase. (A move which would come back to haunt
> Kirk in "The Wrath Of Khan".)
>
> Shnaggletooth
>
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180093 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 19:54 |
|
"whodunit" <pillut_48 [at] sbcworldly.net> wrote in message
news:hsYnf.40004$D13.38721 [at] newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Robert Bernardo wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Laura wrote:
>>
>>> The companion let her die...
>>
>>
>> Please watch the episode again. The Companion sacrificed its self to
>> become one with Nancy and thus in saving her life, the Companion became
>> mortal. The Companion did not have to do that.
>>
>> No zombie or legal theories involved,
>> Robert Bernardo
>
> Indeed.
>
> I haven't seen the episode in a long time, but I thought I remembered that
> Nancy didn't actually die, she was this close >< to dying, but the
> Companion sacrificed itself to save her, and they were both in there.
Which means they wore the same size and could therefore share a wardrobe. It
was a win-win situation.
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180094 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 22:25 |
|
General Order 24: the destruction of all sentient life on the planet in
"A Taste of Armageddon". If the people there didn't give in: bye, bye
planet. I'd say that's a big one. It all panned out in the end of
course, and the order was never executed; but he did give it, gambling
with the lives of an entire planet.
Not that I disagree with the order, but it's definitely a "questionable"
one.
3D Master
--
~~~~~
"I've got something to say; it's better to burn out than to fade away!"
- The Kurgan, Highlander
"Give me some sugar, baby!"
- Ashley J. 'Ash' Williams, Army of Darkness
~~~~~
Author of several stories, which can be found here:
http://members.chello.nl/~jg.temolder1/
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180095 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 23:38 |
|
"3D Master" <3d.master [at] chello.nl> wrote in message
news:97125$43a08db8$3ec2eec9$5130 [at] news.chello.nl...
> General Order 24: the destruction of all sentient life on the planet in
> "A Taste of Armageddon". If the people there didn't give in: bye, bye
> planet. I'd say that's a big one. It all panned out in the end of
> course, and the order was never executed; but he did give it, gambling
> with the lives of an entire planet.
>
> Not that I disagree with the order, but it's definitely a "questionable"
> one.
It's even more dubious that the order even *exists*. I don't think I'd much
like the Federation's touchy-feely dictatorship, if I lived there. Have we
ever seen any hint of an election? Nooooooooo......
Ian
--
www.jaxtrawstudios.com
science fiction with shagging in it
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180096 ] |
Mi, 14 Dezember 2005 23:58 |
|
3D Master wrote:
> General Order 24: the destruction of all sentient life on the planet in
> "A Taste of Armageddon". If the people there didn't give in: bye, bye
> planet. I'd say that's a big one. It all panned out in the end of
> course, and the order was never executed; but he did give it, gambling
> with the lives of an entire planet.
>
> Not that I disagree with the order, but it's definitely a "questionable"
> one.
I'd question whether the order actually exists. It could very well be
Kirk bluffing. Remember the Corbomite Maneuver?
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180097 ] |
Do, 15 Dezember 2005 00:22 |
|
Manco wrote:
> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> > Captain Pike agreed to spend his the rest of his days with the
> > Talosians, so I think everything worked out for the best. What I find
> > implausible was how Commodore Menendez chose not to pursue charges
> > against Spock. I mean, all he did was merely commandeer the
> > Enterprise, issue false orders, kidnap Captain Pike, assault Starbase
> > personnel, etc., etc. ;)
> >
> > Shnaggletooth
>
> Except it wasn't Commodore Menendez on board the Enteprise, just another
> Talosian illusion.
Yeah, but we saw at the end that Menendez and Starfleet were watching
the court proceedings the whole time. (Uhura's message from Starfleet)
Shnaggletooth
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180098 ] |
Do, 15 Dezember 2005 00:25 |
|
Benjamin Pavsner wrote:
> A biggie for me would have been not confiding in the Mirror Spock in "Mirror
> Mirror." MirSpock would have eventually come to the conclusion that Kirk and
> Co. wasn't HIS Kirk and Co.. He seemed more of a natural order type of guy
> and figured Kirk didn't belong there as much as MirKirk didn't belong where
> he was and probably would have agreed to the plan to send Kirk and Co. back.
> <shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1134507905.887721.20140 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > 6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
> > Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving Bailey
> > behind with Balok.
> >
> > 5) Not really a command decision, but more of a lapse in command:
> > Kirk's falling in love with the female android and generally behaving
> > like an agonized love-sick teenager ("Requiem For Methesula")
> >
> > 4) Persuading his senior officers to go along with the mind-body switch
> > in "Return to Tomorrow".
> >
> > 3) Sending a shuttlecraft team to investigate the quasar in "The
> > Galileo 7". Yes, he did have standing orders from Starfleet to
> > investigate all quasar-like activity, but he also had priority orders
> > from the Federation to send medical supplies to a plague-ridden colony.
> > Kirk should have known that if something went wrong with the mission,
> > the quasar would hinder attempts to communicate and rescue. He also
> > knew about the tight deadline for transporting the medical supplies.
> > The Federation guy, though he was a creepy jerk, was right when he said
> > Kirk should never have sent the team in the first place.
> >
> > 2) Failing to follow Starfleet procedure, "General Order 12": Don't
> > approach another Starfleet vessel unless communiations have first been
> > established. ("The Wrath Of Khan")
> >
> > 1) Relegating Khan and his crew to Ceti Alpha 5 instead of bringing
> > them in chains to a Starbase. (A move which would come back to haunt
> > Kirk in "The Wrath Of Khan".)
> >
> > Shnaggletooth
> >
I don't know if Mirror Spock would have believed Good Kirk's story; the
Mirror Kirk was supposed to be some real slick backstabber, and Mirror
Spock might have thought it was just another trick "to advance himself
to the admiralty".
Shnaggletooth
|
|
|
Gehe zu:
aktuelle Zeit: Do Feb 9 05:38:23 CET 2012
Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 0,35819 Sekunden |
