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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before"
| Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1304] |
Di, 12 April 2005 04:31 |
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I always thought "The Cage," the first TOS pilot which NBC rejected, was
a much better story than "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the second TOS
pilot which NBC accepted. "The Cage" was intelligent, thought-provoking
and literate.
Anyone else agree with me?
Leaving aside the cast changes (admittedly, much of the cast of "The
Cage" wasn't all that great), which of the two pilots do the folks here
like better?
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1313 ] |
Di, 12 April 2005 05:41 |
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Steven L. wrote:
> I always thought "The Cage," the first TOS pilot which NBC rejected, was
> a much better story than "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the second TOS
> pilot which NBC accepted. "The Cage" was intelligent, thought-provoking
> and literate.
>
> Anyone else agree with me?
>
> Leaving aside the cast changes (admittedly, much of the cast of "The
> Cage" wasn't all that great), which of the two pilots do the folks here
> like better?
>
>
I don't think I've seen TC unedited, only the parts in WNMHGB, but I
would like to someday. You can tell big sections were taken out, leaving
the story kind of choppy.
I did see the filmed concert version of "Les Miserables" the other day,
and one of the singers, Michael Maguire, seemed like he would make a
good Christopher Pike in a remake. Beautiful blue eyes, intense acting,
etc. I could see him being the captain of the Enterprise.
http://tinyurl.com/5h5co
(might have to click on Michael Maguire)
Interestingly enough, he once guested on VOY years ago.
http://imdb.com/name/nm0536610/
Carolyne in TX
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1315 ] |
Di, 12 April 2005 06:27 |
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"Steven L." <sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:JpG6e.4509$lP1.661 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>I always thought "The Cage," the first TOS pilot which NBC rejected, was a
>much better story than "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the second TOS pilot
>which NBC accepted. "The Cage" was intelligent, thought-provoking and
>literate.
>
> Anyone else agree with me?
>
> Leaving aside the cast changes (admittedly, much of the cast of "The Cage"
> wasn't all that great), which of the two pilots do the folks here like
> better?
"The Cage" was okay, but "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is one of my
favorite episodes. But hey, why choose? Let's combine them both: after Gary
Mitchell starts to become too powerful, the crew of the Enterprise decides
to strand him ... on Talos IV!
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1316 ] |
Di, 12 April 2005 06:29 |
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On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Steven L. wrote:
> Leaving aside the cast changes (admittedly, much of the cast of "The Cage"
> wasn't all that great)
No chance to prove themselves in later episodes, save George Takei
and Majel Barrett.
> which of the two pilots do the folks here like better?
Apples and oranges. Both are fine episodes. My favorite part of
"The Cage" -- the laser (phaser?) cannon attack on the rock outcropping.
My favorite part of "Where No Man Has Gone Before" -- the mano-a-mano
showdown betweek Kirk and Gary.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1319 ] |
Di, 12 April 2005 12:50 |
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"Steven L." <sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:JpG6e.4509$lP1.661 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I always thought "The Cage," the first TOS pilot which NBC rejected, was
> a much better story than "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the second TOS
> pilot which NBC accepted. "The Cage" was intelligent, thought-provoking
> and literate.
>
> Anyone else agree with me?
>
> Leaving aside the cast changes (admittedly, much of the cast of "The
> Cage" wasn't all that great), which of the two pilots do the folks here
> like better?
>
>
> --
The Cage was a true Sci-fi episode, and was more aimed to "Outer Limits"
fans.
WNMHGB was more of a "spooky" episode aimed more at "Twilight Zone" fans.
My guess is as the stories go that TOS was originally pitched to the network
as a "Wagon Train in Space" the powers that be wanted something with more of
a "human story" plot. The network honchos must have been "twilight zone'
fans.
Might explain why the cage was used with the wheel chair pike and spock
having a heart.
More of a human sub-plot ,and the network accepted it that way.
Which one was better is a personal preference type of thing.
(actors aside)
Gypsy
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1323 ] |
Di, 12 April 2005 14:34 |
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On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 02:31:05 GMT, "Steven L."
<sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote:
>I always thought "The Cage," the first TOS pilot which NBC rejected, was
>a much better story than "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the second TOS
>pilot which NBC accepted. "The Cage" was intelligent, thought-provoking
>and literate.
>
If I remember correctly, that's why the suits at NBC wanted a second
pilot. They thought "The Cage" was too cerebral.
>Anyone else agree with me?
>
I thought both pilots were good.
>Leaving aside the cast changes (admittedly, much of the cast of "The
>Cage" wasn't all that great), which of the two pilots do the folks here
>like better?
* Robinson
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1327 ] |
Di, 12 April 2005 18:28 |
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"Gypsy" <spamblocker [at] mail.net> wrote in message
news:bIN6e.2582$8i6.190871 [at] news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> "Steven L." <sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
> news:JpG6e.4509$lP1.661 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > I always thought "The Cage," the first TOS pilot which NBC rejected, was
> > a much better story than "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the second TOS
> > pilot which NBC accepted. "The Cage" was intelligent, thought-provoking
> > and literate.
> >
> > Anyone else agree with me?
> >
> > Leaving aside the cast changes (admittedly, much of the cast of "The
> > Cage" wasn't all that great), which of the two pilots do the folks here
> > like better?
> >
> >
> > --
>
> The Cage was a true Sci-fi episode, and was more aimed to "Outer Limits"
> fans.
>
> WNMHGB was more of a "spooky" episode aimed more at "Twilight Zone" fans.
>
> My guess is as the stories go that TOS was originally pitched to the
network
> as a "Wagon Train in Space" the powers that be wanted something with more
of
> a "human story" plot. The network honchos must have been "twilight zone'
> fans.
>
> Might explain why the cage was used with the wheel chair pike and spock
> having a heart.
> More of a human sub-plot ,and the network accepted it that way.
>
> Which one was better is a personal preference type of thing.
> (actors aside)
Your thinking of The Menagerie the TOS two parter, The Cage was the original
unaired pilot. They used most of the The Cage ep to make The Menagerie.
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TOS/episode/686 62.html
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TOS/episode/686 92.html
--
Qa'pla
Kweeg
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
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| Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1377 ] |
Mi, 13 April 2005 17:16 |
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In article <JpG6e.4509$lP1.661 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Steven
L. <sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net> writes
>I always thought "The Cage," the first TOS pilot which NBC rejected, was
>a much better story than "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the second TOS
>pilot which NBC accepted. "The Cage" was intelligent, thought-provoking
>and literate.
>
>Anyone else agree with me?
>
>Leaving aside the cast changes (admittedly, much of the cast of "The
>Cage" wasn't all that great), which of the two pilots do the folks here
>like better?
>
>
I prefer "The Cage" it was a much better plot and I would even go as far
to say better acted.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1701-tenforward
--
John Hopkins
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1409 ] |
Fr, 15 April 2005 20:59 |
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whodunit wrote:
> I don't think I've seen TC unedited, only the parts in WNMHGB, but I
would like to someday. You can tell big sections were taken out,
leaving the story kind of choppy.
>>
No parts of The Cage are in WNMHGB, they're in The Menagerie. The
question is about comparing the two pilots, not comparing The Cage and
The Menagerie.
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1410 ] |
Fr, 15 April 2005 21:02 |
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Gypsy wrote:
>>
Might explain why the cage was used with the wheel chair pike and spock
having a heart.
More of a human sub-plot ,and the network accepted it that way.
>>
The Cage does not have a wheelchair-bound Pike. That's The Menagerie,
which was not used as a Pilot episode.
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1412 ] |
Fr, 15 April 2005 21:06 |
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>>
If I remember correctly, that's why the suits at NBC wanted a second
pilot. They thought "The Cage" was too cerebral.
>>
Not exactly, that's sort of urban legend. It's not that it was too
cerebral, but rather that it wasn't action-oriented enough. Also, they
seem to have hated almost all the actors except Jeffrey Hunter and
Leonard Nimoy (and even in Nimoy's case, they liked the actor, but not
the character).
WNMHGB is thought-provoking too, but also delivers on the
action-adventure promise.
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1427 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 01:49 |
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Graeme wrote:
> If I remember correctly, that's why the suits at NBC wanted a second
> pilot. They thought "The Cage" was too cerebral.
>
>
> Not exactly, that's sort of urban legend. It's not that it was too
> cerebral, but rather that it wasn't action-oriented enough. Also, they
> seem to have hated almost all the actors except Jeffrey Hunter and
> Leonard Nimoy (and even in Nimoy's case, they liked the actor, but not
> the character).
Actually, even that is not the entire story.
In their book "Inside Star Trek," Herb Solow and Bob Justman recalled
that NBC also had real concerns about the eroticism in "The Cage" and in
Roddenberry's plans for Star Trek generally. This was 1965 and Vina's
seductive manner, especially her dance as the Orion slave girl, worried
NBC about broadcasting Star Trek in "Bible Belt" markets.
So in WNMHGB, Roddenberry obviously toned down the eroticism to not
scare the NBC brass. No sensuous dancing girls this time.
When Star Trek went on the air, Roddenberry continued to push the
envelope on eroticism (by mid 1960's standards), which was a continuing
headache for NBC.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1428 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 01:53 |
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John Hopkins wrote:
> In article <JpG6e.4509$lP1.661 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Steven
> L. <sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net> writes
>
>>I always thought "The Cage," the first TOS pilot which NBC rejected, was
>>a much better story than "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the second TOS
>>pilot which NBC accepted. "The Cage" was intelligent, thought-provoking
>>and literate.
>>
>>Anyone else agree with me?
>>
>>Leaving aside the cast changes (admittedly, much of the cast of "The
>>Cage" wasn't all that great), which of the two pilots do the folks here
>>like better?
>>
>>
>
> I prefer "The Cage" it was a much better plot and I would even go as far
> to say better acted.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1701-tenforward
If NBC had never greenlighted Star Trek, even after the second pilot,
"The Cage" might have been just broadcast as a TV-movie at some point.
If so, I believe it would have qualified as one of the best sci-fi
movies of the 1960's, maybe ranking third behind "2001: A Space Odyssey"
and "Planet of the Apes." I thought the script was that good.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1441 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 08:39 |
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Graeme wrote:
> whodunit wrote:
>
>>I don't think I've seen TC unedited, only the parts in WNMHGB, but I
>
> would like to someday. You can tell big sections were taken out,
> leaving the story kind of choppy.
>
>
> No parts of The Cage are in WNMHGB, they're in The Menagerie. The
> question is about comparing the two pilots, not comparing The Cage and
> The Menagerie.
>
Duh, sorry, my bad! Mommy brain.
Please carry on. ;-)
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1444 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 11:58 |
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Steven L. wrote:
> Graeme wrote:
>
>> If I remember correctly, that's why the suits at NBC wanted a second
>> pilot. They thought "The Cage" was too cerebral.
>>
>>
>> Not exactly, that's sort of urban legend. It's not that it was too
>> cerebral, but rather that it wasn't action-oriented enough. Also,
>> they seem to have hated almost all the actors except Jeffrey Hunter
>> and Leonard Nimoy (and even in Nimoy's case, they liked the actor,
>> but not the character).
>
> Actually, even that is not the entire story.
>
> In their book "Inside Star Trek," Herb Solow and Bob Justman recalled
> that NBC also had real concerns about the eroticism in "The Cage" and
> in Roddenberry's plans for Star Trek generally. This was 1965 and
> Vina's seductive manner, especially her dance as the Orion slave
> girl, worried NBC about broadcasting Star Trek in "Bible Belt"
> markets.
>
> So in WNMHGB, Roddenberry obviously toned down the eroticism to not
> scare the NBC brass. No sensuous dancing girls this time.
>
> When Star Trek went on the air, Roddenberry continued to push the
> envelope on eroticism (by mid 1960's standards), which was a
> continuing headache for NBC.
Thank heavens we no longer live in a time when puritanical zealots impose
their conservative views on the media.
Uh...
Ian
--
____________________
A quality online comic strip for the discerning reader.
With shagging in it.
http://www.jaxtrawstudios.com
Free daily rude toons
http://www.lewdart.com
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1453 ] |
Sa, 16 April 2005 17:40 |
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On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:58:44 +0100, "Jaxtraw"
<jaxtraw [at] nospamnobigfoot.com> wrote:
>Thank heavens we no longer live in a time when puritanical zealots impose
>their conservative views on the media.
That crashing sound you hear is me, falling out of my chair and
laughing my head off ...
--
The Merry Piper
[http://tmpiper.livejournal.com]
If you want to dance, you'll have to pay ... me!
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1483 ] |
So, 17 April 2005 06:00 |
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Jaxtraw wrote:
> Steven L. wrote:
>
>>Graeme wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If I remember correctly, that's why the suits at NBC wanted a second
>>>pilot. They thought "The Cage" was too cerebral.
>>>
>>>
>>>Not exactly, that's sort of urban legend. It's not that it was too
>>>cerebral, but rather that it wasn't action-oriented enough. Also,
>>>they seem to have hated almost all the actors except Jeffrey Hunter
>>>and Leonard Nimoy (and even in Nimoy's case, they liked the actor,
>>>but not the character).
>>
>>Actually, even that is not the entire story.
>>
>>In their book "Inside Star Trek," Herb Solow and Bob Justman recalled
>>that NBC also had real concerns about the eroticism in "The Cage" and
>>in Roddenberry's plans for Star Trek generally. This was 1965 and
>>Vina's seductive manner, especially her dance as the Orion slave
>>girl, worried NBC about broadcasting Star Trek in "Bible Belt"
>>markets.
>>
>>So in WNMHGB, Roddenberry obviously toned down the eroticism to not
>>scare the NBC brass. No sensuous dancing girls this time.
>>
>>When Star Trek went on the air, Roddenberry continued to push the
>>envelope on eroticism (by mid 1960's standards), which was a
>>continuing headache for NBC.
>
>
> Thank heavens we no longer live in a time when puritanical zealots impose
> their conservative views on the media.
One of the most subliminally erotic TOS episodes was "A Private Little
War." Roddenberry knew he would have trouble getting that script past
the NBC censors, so he decided to write an extra scene into the script
as a "bargaining chip." It would be so extreme that the censors would
ask that it be removed, and Roddenberry would graciously consent to do
so, provided they left the rest of his script intact.
And so, Roddenberry wrote a scene into the script of "APLW" in which
Nancy Kovack, as Nona, appears topless, bathing in the river. Kirk,
who's under her spell, sees her bare breasts and gets turned on. He
jumps into the river and embraces her. Roddenberry then sent it to NBC
in New York and waited for the inevitable phone call.
The NBC censors demanded the scene be cut. Roddenberry agreed provided
they left the rest of his script alone. Just as he had planned.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1613 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 00:14 |
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>>
Actually, even that is not the entire story.
In their book "Inside Star Trek," Herb Solow and Bob Justman recalled
that NBC also had real concerns about the eroticism in "The Cage" and
in
Roddenberry's plans for Star Trek generally.
>>
Yes, that's true also. Excellent book by the way.
Actually, neither pilot was really all that great as a pilot. WNMHGB
was a great action adventure story that showed some of the potential of
the show. But as a pilot, it did a really awful job of showcasing the
characters who were supposed to be in the show if it sold. There's
Kirk and Spock, and two guest stars we'll never see again, who do all
the stuff. Yeoman Smith and Lt. Alden have barely a line each. Scott
and Sulu have a bit more, but nothing to write home about. Lt. Leslie,
apart from his two uniforms gets very little to do either, which set a
bad precedent for the series.
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1614 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 00:22 |
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>>
And so, Roddenberry wrote a scene into the script of "APLW" in which
Nancy Kovack, as Nona, appears topless, bathing in the river. Kirk,
who's under her spell, sees her bare breasts and gets turned on. He
jumps into the river and embraces her. Roddenberry then sent it to NBC
in New York and waited for the inevitable phone call.
The NBC censors demanded the scene be cut. Roddenberry agreed provided
they left the rest of his script alone. Just as he had planned.
>>
Old Earth business practice. Ask for more than you want. They could
have meddled with the rest of the scene anyway, but they were less
inclined to after he'd caved a bit.
Is it just me, or was Nona just not as sexy as she was supposed to be?
Even the thought of her bathing topless doesn't grab me that much. To
me she was more annoying than topless. Kind of like Lucy van Pelt
in... well, pelts.
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1615 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 00:23 |
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>>
And so, Roddenberry wrote a scene into the script of "APLW" in which
Nancy Kovack, as Nona, appears topless, bathing in the river. Kirk,
who's under her spell, sees her bare breasts and gets turned on. He
jumps into the river and embraces her. Roddenberry then sent it to NBC
in New York and waited for the inevitable phone call.
The NBC censors demanded the scene be cut. Roddenberry agreed provided
they left the rest of his script alone. Just as he had planned.
>>
Old Earth business practice. Ask for more than you want. They could
have meddled with the rest of the scene anyway, but they were less
inclined to after he'd caved a bit.
Is it just me, or was Nona just not as sexy as she was supposed to be?
Even the thought of her bathing topless doesn't grab me that much. To
me she was more annoying than topless. Kind of like Lucy van Pelt
in... well, pelts.
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1616 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 00:52 |
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"Graeme" <graemecree [at] aol.com> wrote...
> >>
> Actually, neither pilot was really all that great as a pilot. WNMHGB
> was a great action adventure story that showed some of the potential of
> the show. But as a pilot, it did a really awful job of showcasing the
> characters who were supposed to be in the show if it sold.
Actually, it was a perfect vehicle for the people who were
going to be the stars of the revised series: Shatner and Nimoy.
GeneK
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1617 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 01:01 |
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>>
Actually, even that is not the entire story.
In their book "Inside Star Trek," Herb Solow and Bob Justman recalled
that NBC also had real concerns about the eroticism in "The Cage" and
in
Roddenberry's plans for Star Trek generally.
>>
Yes, that's true also. Excellent book by the way.
Actually, neither pilot was really all that great as a pilot. WNMHGB
was a great action adventure story that showed some of the potential of
the show. But as a pilot, it did a really awful job of showcasing the
characters who were supposed to be in the show if it sold. There's
Kirk and Spock, and two guest stars we'll never see again, who do all
the stuff. Yeoman Smith and Lt. Alden have barely a line each. Scott
and Sulu have a bit more, but nothing to write home about. Lt. Leslie,
apart from his two uniforms gets very little to do either, which set a
bad precedent for the series.
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #1618 ] |
Mi, 20 April 2005 01:06 |
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Jaxtraw wrote:
> Thank heavens we no longer live in a time when puritanical zealots
impose their conservative views on the media.
>
> Uh...
>
> Ian
>>
In this case, the zealots were the ones footing the bill for the show,
which, one would think, would entitle them to some kind of say about
what went into it.
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| Re: Poll: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #20375 ] |
Sa, 23 April 2005 18:10 |
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>>
Leaving aside the cast changes (admittedly, much of the cast of "The
Cage" wasn't all that great), which of the two pilots do the folks here
like better?
>>
Laurel Goodwin was my favorite of the three Yeowomen. Liked her more
than Dromm and Whitney. John Hoyt is good, I wouldn't have minded if
they'd kept him. Peter Duryea I could have taken or left. Number One
was okay, but I think they wrote themselves into a corner right away by
letting Pike know that she had romantic fantasies about him and wasn't
so unemotional as she pretended. That kind of thing should have come
at the end of the first season, or later.
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #68572 ] |
Di, 28 Juni 2005 02:20 |
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I enjoyed The Cage when I finally saw it in 1991 but it is less appealing
that Where No Man Has Gone Before in that Spock's speach pattern is less
machanical and Kirk is in it as opposed to Christopher. The Cage would have
been a good pilot movie but Where No Man was a necessary starting point for
the series. Actually I think Man Trap would have made a better premire.
"Steven L." <sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:JpG6e.4509$lP1.661 [at] newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>I always thought "The Cage," the first TOS pilot which NBC rejected, was a
>much better story than "Where No Man Has Gone Before," the second TOS pilot
>which NBC accepted. "The Cage" was intelligent, thought-provoking and
>literate.
>
> Anyone else agree with me?
>
> Leaving aside the cast changes (admittedly, much of the cast of "The Cage"
> wasn't all that great), which of the two pilots do the folks here like
> better?
>
>
> --
> Steven D. Litvintchouk
> Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net
>
> Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
>
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #68575 ] |
Di, 28 Juni 2005 03:53 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #68577 ] |
Di, 28 Juni 2005 04:27 |
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Neon Knight wrote:
> "Victor F. Antoine" <giladan [at] pipeline.com> wrote in
> news:pJ0we.18$aY6.3 [at] newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
>
>> The Cage would have been a good pilot movie but Where
>>No Man was a necessary starting point for the series. Actually I
>>think Man Trap would have made a better premire.
>
>
> Well, The Man Trap WAS the premiere.
In effect, yes.
Me, I think Corbomite Maneuver would have been best...
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #68590 ] |
Di, 28 Juni 2005 04:57 |
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On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:53:11 -0500, Neon Knight <knightofneon [at] spamex.com>
wrote:
>Well, The Man Trap WAS the premiere. Even though Where No Man Has Gone
>Before was the second pilot filmed, it was the 3rd episode shown in
>season one. The Man Trap was first. Not sure why they did this because
>obviously the events of WNMHGB happened before The Man Trap.
Blame the suits at NBC, who thought that anything except a bug-eyed monster
was above the intelligence and taste of the average viewer .. Remember,
these are the people who thought the Cage was too "cerebral"
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #68592 ] |
Di, 28 Juni 2005 05:27 |
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George Peatty wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:53:11 -0500, Neon Knight <knightofneon [at] spamex.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Well, The Man Trap WAS the premiere. Even though Where No Man Has Gone
>>Before was the second pilot filmed, it was the 3rd episode shown in
>>season one. The Man Trap was first. Not sure why they did this because
>>obviously the events of WNMHGB happened before The Man Trap.
>
>
> Blame the suits at NBC, who thought that anything except a bug-eyed monster
> was above the intelligence and taste of the average viewer .. Remember,
> these are the people who thought the Cage was too "cerebral"
>
Well, maybe they were right. Look at how people here react to the very
idea of Kirk and Spock as Gay lovers. It's the twenty-first century,
yet, even now, the world just isn't ready for some things.
Not that that stopped GR from trying.
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #68594 ] |
Di, 28 Juni 2005 05:48 |
|
"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:11c1gt6qa9g2ne3 [at] news.supernews.com...
> George Peatty wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:53:11 -0500, Neon Knight <knightofneon [at] spamex.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well, The Man Trap WAS the premiere. Even though Where No Man Has Gone
>>>Before was the second pilot filmed, it was the 3rd episode shown in
>>>season one. The Man Trap was first. Not sure why they did this because
>>>obviously the events of WNMHGB happened before The Man Trap.
>>
>>
>> Blame the suits at NBC, who thought that anything except a bug-eyed
>> monster
>> was above the intelligence and taste of the average viewer .. Remember,
>> these are the people who thought the Cage was too "cerebral"
>
> Well, maybe they were right. Look at how people here react to the very
> idea of Kirk and Spock as Gay lovers. It's the twenty-first century, yet,
> even now, the world just isn't ready for some things.
>
> Not that that stopped GR from trying.
>
>
Goodwin!
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.tv.star-trek.tos/msg /edc99bd4aa862e6c?hl=en
"Kirk and Spock are heterosexual and nothing but - and that's the truth.
Period. End of Story." - ToolPackinMama
George
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #68598 ] |
Di, 28 Juni 2005 06:10 |
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George wrote:
> "Kirk and Spock are heterosexual and nothing but - and that's the truth.
> Period. End of Story." - ToolPackinMama
Yeah yeah, congratulations, you "win" the K/S "debate". There. Happy?
Please stop hating me now.
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #68611 ] |
Di, 28 Juni 2005 07:30 |
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"George" <darthbonobo [at] goodall.org> wrote in message
news:1119930490.609b816f8b73815084a4a969ef567e41 [at] teranews...
>
> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
> news:11c1gt6qa9g2ne3 [at] news.supernews.com...
> > George Peatty wrote:
> >> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:53:11 -0500, Neon Knight
<knightofneon [at] spamex.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Well, The Man Trap WAS the premiere. Even though Where No Man Has Gone
> >>>Before was the second pilot filmed, it was the 3rd episode shown in
> >>>season one. The Man Trap was first. Not sure why they did this because
> >>>obviously the events of WNMHGB happened before The Man Trap.
> >>
> >>
> >> Blame the suits at NBC, who thought that anything except a bug-eyed
> >> monster
> >> was above the intelligence and taste of the average viewer .. Remember,
> >> these are the people who thought the Cage was too "cerebral"
> >
> > Well, maybe they were right. Look at how people here react to the very
> > idea of Kirk and Spock as Gay lovers. It's the twenty-first century,
yet,
> > even now, the world just isn't ready for some things.
> >
> > Not that that stopped GR from trying.
> >
> >
>
> Goodwin!
>
>
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.tv.star-trek.tos/msg /edc99bd4aa862e6c?hl=en
> "Kirk and Spock are heterosexual and nothing but - and that's the truth.
> Period. End of Story." - ToolPackinMama
LOL!
--
Qa'pla
Kweeg
Ten of Clubs in the eeeevil Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #69997 ] |
Di, 28 Juni 2005 16:29 |
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in article Xns9682D477B217219knightofneon20 [at] 216.196.97.136, Neon Knight at
knightofneon [at] spamex.com wrote on 6/27/05 6:53 PM:
> "Victor F. Antoine" <giladan [at] pipeline.com> wrote in
> news:pJ0we.18$aY6.3 [at] newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
>> The Cage would have been a good pilot movie but Where
>> No Man was a necessary starting point for the series. Actually I
>> think Man Trap would have made a better premire.
>
> Well, The Man Trap WAS the premiere. Even though Where No Man Has Gone
> Before was the second pilot filmed, it was the 3rd episode shown in
> season one. The Man Trap was first. Not sure why they did this because
> obviously the events of WNMHGB happened before The Man Trap.
The network did it 'cause they wanted a monster.
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| Re: "The Cage" Vs. "Where No Man Has Gone Before" [message #70000 ] |
Di, 28 Juni 2005 17:54 |
|
She mentioned peoples reactions to the idea. i don't see how this should be
seen as raising the K/S debate, and therefore can anybody win?
Peoples reactions to the idea, were 'volotile' to say the least.
"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:11c1gt6qa9g2ne3 [at] news.supernews.com...
> George Peatty wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:53:11 -0500, Neon Knight <knightofneon [at] spamex.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well, The Man Trap WAS the premiere. Even though Where No Man Has Gone
>>>Before was the second pilot filmed, it was the 3rd episode shown in
>>>season one. The Man Trap was first. Not sure why they did this because
>>>obviously the events of WNMHGB happened before The Man Trap.
>>
>>
>> Blame the suits at NBC, who thought that anything except a bug-eyed
>> monster
>> was above the intelligence and taste of the average viewer .. Remember,
>> these are the people who thought the Cage was too "cerebral"
>
> Well, maybe they were right. Look at how people here react to the very
> idea of Kirk and Spock as Gay lovers. It's the twenty-first century, yet,
> even now, the world just isn't ready for some things.
>
> Not that that stopped GR from trying.
>
>
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