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Science Fiction » alt.fan.starwars » Order 66: The Final Verdict Is In
| Order 66: The Final Verdict Is In [message #175663] |
Mi, 30 November 2005 03:35 |
|
Some months ago I had a fairly spirited discussion in here about
whether the clone troopers were programmed at "birth" to carry out
Order 66 or were programmed by Palpatine much later on.
I'm here to say to the person I argued with (sorry I can't remember
your name): YOU WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG. The latest EU book,
"Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader," seems to settle the question
pretty convincingly. In fact, it's almost made me wonder if James
Luceno were lurking in here and decided to settle the question once
and for all. Here's the quote, which is from Vader's point of view:
"He knew that Order Sixty-Six had not been hardwired into the clones
by the Kaminoans who had grown them. Rather, the troopers--the
commanders, especially--had been programmed to demonstrate unfailing
loyalty to the Supreme Chancellor, in his role as Commander in Chief
of the Grand Army of the Republic."
So there you have it: No programming at birth.
Best,
Todd
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| Re: Order 66 ... and other "problems" [message #175671 ] |
Mi, 30 November 2005 06:47 |
|
In article <9g3qo1h30rbpmbni2uo97dmqhgbc9okrnb [at] 4ax.com>, Todd
<twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote:
> Some months ago I had a fairly spirited discussion in here about
> whether the clone troopers were programmed at "birth" to carry out
> Order 66 or were programmed by Palpatine much later on.
>
> I'm here to say to the person I argued with (sorry I can't remember
> your name): YOU WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG. The latest EU book,
> "Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader," seems to settle the question
> pretty convincingly. In fact, it's almost made me wonder if James
> Luceno were lurking in here and decided to settle the question once
> and for all. Here's the quote, which is from Vader's point of view:
>
> "He knew that Order Sixty-Six had not been hardwired into the clones
> by the Kaminoans who had grown them. Rather, the troopers--the
> commanders, especially--had been programmed to demonstrate unfailing
> loyalty to the Supreme Chancellor, in his role as Commander in Chief
> of the Grand Army of the Republic."
>
> So there you have it: No programming at birth.
Only the programming to be loyal to the "Republic", which we already
knew.
While we're at it, here's a couple more quotes from another book that
clean up a few "mysteries".
First two quotes that prove (as much as it can be) that Stormtroopers
are NOT all clones ...
IMPERIAL MIGHT
Having eliminated his most powerful opponenst, Emperor
Palpatine is free to throw all of his resources into a
military buildup unlike any in recorded galactic history.
Republic Assault Ships used during the Clone Wars are
decommissioned and replaced by larger warships with more
destructive firepower. Human males - especially those
prejudiced to aliens - are recruited from Military
Academies to command the clone troops; those who refuse
to voluntarily enlist are either drafted to serve
alongside the clones as footsoldiers or eliminated.
- Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide
Imperial Academy
Requiring human officers to command and serve with the
clone troops, Imperial leaders sought the best candidates
at the Academy.
- Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide
This information is in the section of the timeline between the two
trilogies, so by the time of Episode IV there may have been very few
clones or even none at all. I'm not sure how such a technique would
ensure the troopers are loyal, but still, there it is in black and
white.
Next the "problem" of Tarkin apparently being in charge of Vader ...
Wilhuff Tarkin becomes the first military leader to
be promoted to Grand Moff, the highest rank in the
Imperial Navy. The Emperor eventually grants him
limited authority over Darth Vader.
- Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide
Finally, a partial answer as to why the Death Star didn't simply blow
Yavin away to get at the Rebel Base moon ...
After firing, the superlaser requires a recharge period
of 24 standard hours before it can be fired again, so
Death Star gunners are trained to hit their target on
the first shot.
- Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide
I would have thought it's pretty difficult to miss a planet, but then
they ARE Imperial troops. ;-)
"Use the books Luke." :-)
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| Re: Order 66 ... and other "problems" [message #175673 ] |
Mi, 30 November 2005 07:13 |
|
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:47:23 +1300, Anybody
<anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote:
>In article <9g3qo1h30rbpmbni2uo97dmqhgbc9okrnb [at] 4ax.com>, Todd
><twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Some months ago I had a fairly spirited discussion in here about
>> whether the clone troopers were programmed at "birth" to carry out
>> Order 66 or were programmed by Palpatine much later on.
>>
>> I'm here to say to the person I argued with (sorry I can't remember
>> your name): YOU WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG. The latest EU book,
>> "Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader," seems to settle the question
>> pretty convincingly. In fact, it's almost made me wonder if James
>> Luceno were lurking in here and decided to settle the question once
>> and for all. Here's the quote, which is from Vader's point of view:
>>
>> "He knew that Order Sixty-Six had not been hardwired into the clones
>> by the Kaminoans who had grown them. Rather, the troopers--the
>> commanders, especially--had been programmed to demonstrate unfailing
>> loyalty to the Supreme Chancellor, in his role as Commander in Chief
>> of the Grand Army of the Republic."
>>
>> So there you have it: No programming at birth.
>
>Only the programming to be loyal to the "Republic", which we already
>knew.
>
>
>
>While we're at it, here's a couple more quotes from another book that
>clean up a few "mysteries".
>
Sorry, I had to snip 'em before I read 'em. I'm still reading the new
book. I'll check it out afterward.
Todd
|
|
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| Re: Order 66 ... and other "problems" [message #175681 ] |
Mi, 30 November 2005 08:12 |
|
In article <5ngqo1lt4tktl13d3ba848cbuan49n98i3 [at] 4ax.com>, Todd
<twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:47:23 +1300, Anybody
> <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <9g3qo1h30rbpmbni2uo97dmqhgbc9okrnb [at] 4ax.com>, Todd
> ><twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Some months ago I had a fairly spirited discussion in here about
> >> whether the clone troopers were programmed at "birth" to carry out
> >> Order 66 or were programmed by Palpatine much later on.
> >>
> >> I'm here to say to the person I argued with (sorry I can't remember
> >> your name): YOU WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG. The latest EU book,
> >> "Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader," seems to settle the question
> >> pretty convincingly. In fact, it's almost made me wonder if James
> >> Luceno were lurking in here and decided to settle the question once
> >> and for all. Here's the quote, which is from Vader's point of view:
> >>
> >> "He knew that Order Sixty-Six had not been hardwired into the clones
> >> by the Kaminoans who had grown them. Rather, the troopers--the
> >> commanders, especially--had been programmed to demonstrate unfailing
> >> loyalty to the Supreme Chancellor, in his role as Commander in Chief
> >> of the Grand Army of the Republic."
> >>
> >> So there you have it: No programming at birth.
> >
> >Only the programming to be loyal to the "Republic", which we already
> >knew.
> >
> >
> >
> >While we're at it, here's a couple more quotes from another book that
> >clean up a few "mysteries".
>
> Sorry, I had to snip 'em before I read 'em. I'm still reading the new
> book. I'll check it out afterward.
Sorry, I should have said at the start that my quotes do NOT come out
of the new novel.
The quotes I posted all come from the new Dorling Kindersley book "Star
Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide", which is a reference book that gets
it's details from the various sources (comics, games, etc.), but
doesn't include the very latest novels ... which makes you wonder how
they can call it the "Ultimate Guide". :-\
|
|
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| Re: Order 66 ... and other "problems" [message #175686 ] |
Mi, 30 November 2005 08:22 |
|
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:12:40 +1300, Anybody
<anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote:
>In article <5ngqo1lt4tktl13d3ba848cbuan49n98i3 [at] 4ax.com>, Todd
><twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:47:23 +1300, Anybody
>> <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <9g3qo1h30rbpmbni2uo97dmqhgbc9okrnb [at] 4ax.com>, Todd
>> ><twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Some months ago I had a fairly spirited discussion in here about
>> >> whether the clone troopers were programmed at "birth" to carry out
>> >> Order 66 or were programmed by Palpatine much later on.
>> >>
>> >> I'm here to say to the person I argued with (sorry I can't remember
>> >> your name): YOU WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG. The latest EU book,
>> >> "Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader," seems to settle the question
>> >> pretty convincingly. In fact, it's almost made me wonder if James
>> >> Luceno were lurking in here and decided to settle the question once
>> >> and for all. Here's the quote, which is from Vader's point of view:
>> >>
>> >> "He knew that Order Sixty-Six had not been hardwired into the clones
>> >> by the Kaminoans who had grown them. Rather, the troopers--the
>> >> commanders, especially--had been programmed to demonstrate unfailing
>> >> loyalty to the Supreme Chancellor, in his role as Commander in Chief
>> >> of the Grand Army of the Republic."
>> >>
>> >> So there you have it: No programming at birth.
>> >
>> >Only the programming to be loyal to the "Republic", which we already
>> >knew.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >While we're at it, here's a couple more quotes from another book that
>> >clean up a few "mysteries".
>>
>> Sorry, I had to snip 'em before I read 'em. I'm still reading the new
>> book. I'll check it out afterward.
>
>Sorry, I should have said at the start that my quotes do NOT come out
>of the new novel.
>
>The quotes I posted all come from the new Dorling Kindersley book "Star
>Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide", which is a reference book that gets
>it's details from the various sources (comics, games, etc.), but
>doesn't include the very latest novels ... which makes you wonder how
>they can call it the "Ultimate Guide". :-\
It's only ultimate until something else comes out, I guess.
Okay, since there are no book spoilers I'll go back and read your
post. Thanks for the disclaimer.
Todd
|
|
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| Re: Order 66 ... and other "problems" [message #178212 ] |
Sa, 03 Dezember 2005 17:03 |
|
"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:301120051847230808%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <9g3qo1h30rbpmbni2uo97dmqhgbc9okrnb [at] 4ax.com>, Todd
> <twrexxnospam [at] earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Some months ago I had a fairly spirited discussion in here about
> > whether the clone troopers were programmed at "birth" to carry out
> > Order 66 or were programmed by Palpatine much later on.
> >
> > I'm here to say to the person I argued with (sorry I can't remember
> > your name): YOU WERE RIGHT AND I WAS WRONG. The latest EU book,
> > "Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader," seems to settle the question
> > pretty convincingly. In fact, it's almost made me wonder if James
> > Luceno were lurking in here and decided to settle the question once
> > and for all. Here's the quote, which is from Vader's point of view:
> >
> > "He knew that Order Sixty-Six had not been hardwired into the clones
> > by the Kaminoans who had grown them. Rather, the troopers--the
> > commanders, especially--had been programmed to demonstrate unfailing
> > loyalty to the Supreme Chancellor, in his role as Commander in Chief
> > of the Grand Army of the Republic."
> >
> > So there you have it: No programming at birth.
>
> Only the programming to be loyal to the "Republic", which we already
> knew.
>
>
>
> While we're at it, here's a couple more quotes from another book that
> clean up a few "mysteries".
>
> First two quotes that prove (as much as it can be) that Stormtroopers
> are NOT all clones ...
>
> IMPERIAL MIGHT
> Having eliminated his most powerful opponenst, Emperor
> Palpatine is free to throw all of his resources into a
> military buildup unlike any in recorded galactic history.
> Republic Assault Ships used during the Clone Wars are
> decommissioned and replaced by larger warships with more
> destructive firepower. Human males - especially those
> prejudiced to aliens - are recruited from Military
> Academies to command the clone troops; those who refuse
> to voluntarily enlist are either drafted to serve
> alongside the clones as footsoldiers or eliminated.
>
> - Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide
>
>
> Imperial Academy
> Requiring human officers to command and serve with the
> clone troops, Imperial leaders sought the best candidates
> at the Academy.
>
> - Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide
>
> This information is in the section of the timeline between the two
> trilogies, so by the time of Episode IV there may have been very few
> clones or even none at all. I'm not sure how such a technique would
> ensure the troopers are loyal, but still, there it is in black and
> white.
>
>
>
> Next the "problem" of Tarkin apparently being in charge of Vader ...
>
> Wilhuff Tarkin becomes the first military leader to
> be promoted to Grand Moff, the highest rank in the
> Imperial Navy. The Emperor eventually grants him
> limited authority over Darth Vader.
>
> - Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide
>
>
>
> Finally, a partial answer as to why the Death Star didn't simply blow
> Yavin away to get at the Rebel Base moon ...
>
> After firing, the superlaser requires a recharge period
> of 24 standard hours before it can be fired again, so
> Death Star gunners are trained to hit their target on
> the first shot.
>
> - Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide
>
> I would have thought it's pretty difficult to miss a planet, but then
> they ARE Imperial troops. ;-)
>
>
>
> "Use the books Luke." :-)
I could be mistaken, but it doesnt take 24 hours between shots at Endor. It
doesnt even take 24 minutes there.
|
|
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| Re: Order 66 ... and other "problems" [message #178215 ] |
Sa, 03 Dezember 2005 17:59 |
|
>> Finally, a partial answer as to why the Death Star didn't simply blow
>> Yavin away to get at the Rebel Base moon ...
>>
>> After firing, the superlaser requires a recharge period
>> of 24 standard hours before it can be fired again, so
>> Death Star gunners are trained to hit their target on
>> the first shot.
>>
>> - Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide
>>
>> I would have thought it's pretty difficult to miss a planet, but then
>> they ARE Imperial troops. ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> "Use the books Luke." :-)
>
> I could be mistaken, but it doesnt take 24 hours between shots at Endor.
> It
> doesnt even take 24 minutes there.
We're talking about a different Death Star and blowing up a cruiser is a
little different from blowing up a planet. There's probably a low-power
setting that doesn't require such a long recharge.
|
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| Re: Order 66 ... and other "problems" [message #178231 ] |
Sa, 03 Dezember 2005 23:40 |
|
In article <O9kkf.118525$qk4.76477 [at] bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:
> >> Finally, a partial answer as to why the Death Star didn't simply blow
> >> Yavin away to get at the Rebel Base moon ...
> >>
> >> After firing, the superlaser requires a recharge period
> >> of 24 standard hours before it can be fired again, so
> >> Death Star gunners are trained to hit their target on
> >> the first shot.
> >>
> >> - Star Wars: The Ultimate Visual Guide
> >>
> >> I would have thought it's pretty difficult to miss a planet, but then
> >> they ARE Imperial troops. ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Use the books Luke." :-)
> >
> > I could be mistaken, but it doesnt take 24 hours between shots at Endor.
> > It doesnt even take 24 minutes there.
>
> We're talking about a different Death Star and blowing up a cruiser is a
> little different from blowing up a planet. There's probably a low-power
> setting that doesn't require such a long recharge.
True, plus ...
Death Star II
...
This new Death Star's central weapon, the terrifying
superlaser, featured substantially increased power,
allowing it to be recharged in a matter of minutes
rather than hours.
- The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels
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