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Science Fiction » alt.fan.starwars » The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are...
| The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #172004] |
Mo, 21 November 2005 21:53 |
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Does anyone else find it f'ed up that part two of the prequels takes
place about ten years after the first movie and yet Anakins mother is
STILL a slave. And he has NO idea how she's doing? You mean to tell
me the powerful, "we're the good guys" Jedi counsel couldn't even
spare a few coins to buy the poor woman out of slavery?
Wow, real heroes there.
Hell, if anything, THAT should have been what turned Anakin to the
Dark Side, not this whole vague dream crap about Padme dying. The
fact that his Jedi pals didn't give two shits about his mom (the ONLY
PERSON in the world he had family-wise).
But, by part three that's all forgotten...
(sigh)
And don't get me started on the "conceived by the Force" crap...
"I'm trapped in this world
lonely and fading
heartbroke and waiting
for you to come.
We are stuck in this world
that's not for me, for me."
-Wayne Static, "Not Meant For Me" Queen of the Damned Soundtrack
To respond via email, remove the "54"
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| Re: The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #172007 ] |
Mo, 21 November 2005 23:12 |
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"BTM Mike" <breakthemadness54 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:inc4o19be546j9842apbjr3tdmm3bm1lct [at] 4ax.com...
>
> Does anyone else find it f'ed up that part two of the prequels takes
> place about ten years after the first movie and yet Anakins mother is
> STILL a slave.
Actually, no she's not a slave. She married Cleig Lars and was liberated.
If you can't keep up with current events regarding Shmi, maybe you shouldn't
criticize the Jedi for not doing so.
> You mean to tell
> me the powerful, "we're the good guys" Jedi counsel couldn't even
> spare a few coins to buy the poor woman out of slavery?
So you cause a slaver to profit from his illegal activity and that slaver is
just going to enslave someone new with that money. That someone, of course,
isn't lucky enough to have birthed a Jedi so I guess she's not deserving of
being freed.
In any case, the Jedi's job is not to be a hero, they are protectors of the
peace. It's up to the Senate to decide if the slavery problem is serious
enough to raid Tatooine and put an end to the practice. Obviously, it's not
and even allowing that the corrupt Senate would never make such a decision,
it's hardly clear that it would have reflected the will of the populace
anyway. There's no evidence the average Republic citizen gave a damn that
slavery was going on in some remote backwater planet that's not even a
member of the Republic.
> Hell, if anything, THAT should have been what turned Anakin to the
> Dark Side, not this whole vague dream crap about Padme dying. The
> fact that his Jedi pals didn't give two shits about his mom (the ONLY
> PERSON in the world he had family-wise).
I thought it was pretty clear that was a contributing factor. Just because
the dream is the trigger most talked about openly in ROTS doesn't mean his
other reasons for being disillusioned with the Jedi weren't important in his
crossing the party line.
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| Re: The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #172012 ] |
Mo, 21 November 2005 23:59 |
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BTM Mike wrote:
> Does anyone else find it f'ed up that part two of the prequels takes
> place about ten years after the first movie and yet Anakins mother is
> STILL a slave. And he has NO idea how she's doing? You mean to tell
> me the powerful, "we're the good guys" Jedi counsel couldn't even
> spare a few coins to buy the poor woman out of slavery?
>
Did you miss that part on the Jedi Code that says all Jedi must sever
all personal attachments upon joining the Jedi Order?
Jedi Knights are only supposed to conduct Jedi Business as instructed
by the Council. If they went all over the universe trying to help all
their friends and families and loved ones and pets for personal
reasons, then there'd be chaos. Look what happend to Anakin.
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| Re: The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #172016 ] |
Di, 22 November 2005 00:51 |
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In article <1132613965.362107.171450 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
mexican_equivalent [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> BTM Mike wrote:
> > Does anyone else find it f'ed up that part two of the prequels takes
> > place about ten years after the first movie and yet Anakins mother is
> > STILL a slave. And he has NO idea how she's doing? You mean to tell
> > me the powerful, "we're the good guys" Jedi counsel couldn't even
> > spare a few coins to buy the poor woman out of slavery?
>
> Did you miss that part on the Jedi Code that says all Jedi must sever
> all personal attachments upon joining the Jedi Order?
>
> Jedi Knights are only supposed to conduct Jedi Business as instructed
> by the Council. If they went all over the universe trying to help all
> their friends and families and loved ones and pets for personal
> reasons, then there'd be chaos. Look what happend to Anakin.
Jedi also don't have money as such, especially not personal money.
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| Re: The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #172038 ] |
Di, 22 November 2005 23:34 |
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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:12:52 GMT, "SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:
>
>"BTM Mike" <breakthemadness54 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:inc4o19be546j9842apbjr3tdmm3bm1lct [at] 4ax.com...
>>
>> Does anyone else find it f'ed up that part two of the prequels takes
>> place about ten years after the first movie and yet Anakins mother is
>> STILL a slave.
>
>Actually, no she's not a slave. She married Cleig Lars and was liberated.
>
>If you can't keep up with current events regarding Shmi, maybe you shouldn't
>criticize the Jedi for not doing so.
Point is, Anakin didn't know that, and niether did the Jedi. It
doesn't say WHEN Lars married her, so odds it wasn't right after
Anakin. And the point is still valid, our noble Jedis didn't do a
damn thing to help/check up on one of their newest recruits moms.
Wow, real compassionate here.
>> You mean to tell
>> me the powerful, "we're the good guys" Jedi counsel couldn't even
>> spare a few coins to buy the poor woman out of slavery?
>
>So you cause a slaver to profit from his illegal activity and that slaver is
>just going to enslave someone new with that money. That someone, of course,
>isn't lucky enough to have birthed a Jedi so I guess she's not deserving of
>being freed.
To be honest, that whole part of the first movie is stupid. If the
Jedi had had money, the would have left with the part and not even
noticed Anakin (yeah, I know, their ability to see the Force has been
reduced for some time, but still, if Anakins such a "bright flare"
Force, Qui Gon should have been able to sense it while in the same
room with room.
So, here they are, stuck on a backwater planet while MILLIONS of
people are dying and or being ensalved and Naboo, and they're wasting
time making bets with an ADMITTED slave trader. They should have just
used the Force, wrapped a ton of duct tape around that dude's ass,
took the part, and said, "Hey, we'll be back to pay you later..."
But no, let's put the fate of an entire planet and our mission on a
boy we're never meet, who supposedly a badass because he can fly pods
and who's so poor you can only afford to build one robot AND a pod
racer.
>In any case, the Jedi's job is not to be a hero, they are protectors of the
>peace. It's up to the Senate to decide if the slavery problem is serious
>enough to raid Tatooine and put an end to the practice.
Didn't say anything about ending the practice, but rescuing ONE person
who's REALLY important to the so-called "Chosen One" would seem like a
good idea, even if Kenobi had to do it himself. (And if you say the
Jedi counsel probably forbid him to, that makes them even more of a
bunch of douche bags.)
>> Hell, if anything, THAT should have been what turned Anakin to the
>> Dark Side, not this whole vague dream crap about Padme dying. The
>> fact that his Jedi pals didn't give two shits about his mom (the ONLY
>> PERSON in the world he had family-wise).
>
>I thought it was pretty clear that was a contributing factor. Just because
>the dream is the trigger most talked about openly in ROTS doesn't mean his
>other reasons for being disillusioned with the Jedi weren't important in his
>crossing the party line.
That the fact that it's not even MENTIONED strikes me as bad writing
on GL's part. (That or Anakin has a short term memory.)
"I'm trapped in this world
lonely and fading
heartbroke and waiting
for you to come.
We are stuck in this world
that's not for me, for me."
-Wayne Static, "Not Meant For Me" Queen of the Damned Soundtrack
To respond via email, remove the "54"
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| Re: The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #172039 ] |
Di, 22 November 2005 23:41 |
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On 21 Nov 2005 14:59:25 -0800, mexican_equivalent [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>Did you miss that part on the Jedi Code that says all Jedi must sever
>all personal attachments upon joining the Jedi Order?
>
>Jedi Knights are only supposed to conduct Jedi Business as instructed
>by the Council. If they went all over the universe trying to help all
>their friends and families and loved ones and pets for personal
>reasons, then there'd be chaos. Look what happend to Anakin.
Yeah, I've heard that before, and the whole strikes me as idiotic and
a lame plot device, especially considering the dumbass speech they
give about Anakin being worried about his mom being a bad thing.
Oh what, if he HADN'T cared about his mom, that would make him perfect
Jedi material? I could understand them saying he can't see her while
he's in training and whatnot, but leaving her to rot on a desert
planet just strikes me as cruel and hypocritical (and again, a stupid
plot point GL doesn't take advantage of, but the time ep 3 comes
around, Anakin seems to have forgotten the whole thing.)
To be honest, the whole Jedi philosophy really makes no sense. On the
one, the constantly caution you about letting your emotions control
you. Hey fine, makes sense, balance in all things, stay cool, be
rational, not emotionally, blah blah. But THEN they turned around
"Trust your feelings", "Go with your instincts", and I believei n TPM
Qui Gon even says something along the lines of, "Don't think, just
feel..."
Er... okay. Make up your mind people.
"I'm trapped in this world
lonely and fading
heartbroke and waiting
for you to come.
We are stuck in this world
that's not for me, for me."
-Wayne Static, "Not Meant For Me" Queen of the Damned Soundtrack
To respond via email, remove the "54"
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| Re: The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #172092 ] |
Do, 24 November 2005 03:39 |
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> Did you miss that part on the Jedi Code that says all Jedi must sever
> all personal attachments upon joining the Jedi Order?
The thing I can't figure out is why in the hell being a Jedi is supposed to
be such an awesome thing, or why anybody would even want to be one. You have
to start training when you're 7 or 8, you can never talk to your parents or
anybody you know ever again, you have to be an apprentice and have a lame
haircut until you're 20, and your life consists of never getting laid and
occasionally fucking somebody up with a light saber.
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| Re: The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #172104 ] |
Do, 24 November 2005 10:56 |
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badlands420 wrote:
>
> The thing I can't figure out is why in the hell being a Jedi is supposed to
> be such an awesome thing, or why anybody would even want to be one. You have
>
I suppose fictional people make personal sacrifices to join the Jedi
Order for the same reason some real-life catholics make personal
sacrifices to join the priesthood. No possessions, no women, no
family... sounds familiar?
>
> and your life consists of never getting laid and
>
Again, it's similar to the Catholic priesthood.
<insert obligatory gay catholic priest joke here>
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| Re: The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #172117 ] |
Do, 24 November 2005 20:51 |
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> Again, it's similar to the Catholic priesthood.
> <insert obligatory gay catholic priest joke here>
Damn, you totally stole my thunder.
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| Re: The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #172119 ] |
Do, 24 November 2005 21:27 |
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<mexican_equivalent [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132826215.612526.164230 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> badlands420 wrote:
>>
>> The thing I can't figure out is why in the hell being a Jedi is supposed
>> to
>> be such an awesome thing, or why anybody would even want to be one. You
>> have
>>
>
> I suppose fictional people make personal sacrifices to join the Jedi
> Order for the same reason some real-life catholics make personal
> sacrifices to join the priesthood. No possessions, no women, no
> family... sounds familiar?
>
>
>>
>> and your life consists of never getting laid and
>>
>
> Again, it's similar to the Catholic priesthood.
> <insert obligatory gay catholic priest joke here>
Its not obligatory, its insulting. The Catholic Church has just banned
gays from the priesthood.
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| Re: The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #172122 ] |
Fr, 25 November 2005 00:31 |
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> Its not obligatory, its insulting. The Catholic Church has just banned
> gays from the priesthood.
Which means, of course, that Catholic priesthood just ceased to exist.
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| Re: The Jedi, oh what big heroes we are... [message #174262 ] |
Sa, 26 November 2005 04:44 |
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BTM Mike wrote:
>
> That the fact that it's not even MENTIONED strikes me as bad writing
> on GL's part. (That or Anakin has a short term memory.)
>
Actually, Anakin's mother is mentioned in ROTS. After Anakin kills
Count Dooku in cold blood by Palpatine's request, and Anakin is feeling
guilt over doing it, Palpatine rationalizes it by reminding him of
(among other things) what he did to the sandpeople after his mother
died. There is even some kind of sandpeople-related sound effect that
can be heard while Anakin is remembering it. That was part of
Palpatine's method of turning Anakin to the Dark Side, by bringing back
memories of his mother's death, and by reminding him that he is capable
of slaughtering people (including children) in cold blood.
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