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Science Fiction » alt.fan.starwars » ROTS

ROTS [message #166436]

Sa, 19 November 2005 22:31

Guest

You know, looking back on it, when Ben told Luke about Darth Vader, I always
pictured a dark haired man in his early 30's and not some kid. I expected
to see more Jedi adventures and little if any guns. Instead, we have what
we have. Movies about Jedi's but not that many Jedi.

Re: ROTS [message #166438 ]

Sa, 19 November 2005 23:24

Anybody

In article <rQMff.675$Zb2.592 [at] newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, "Guest"
<n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

> You know, looking back on it, when Ben told Luke about Darth Vader, I always
> pictured a dark haired man in his early 30's and not some kid. I expected
> to see more Jedi adventures and little if any guns. Instead, we have what
> we have. Movies about Jedi's but not that many Jedi.

The movie saga is only one story in the Star Wars universe - the story
of Anakin Skywalker. It starts with him being discovered as a young
boy, follows his rise and then fall within the Jedi order, his turn to
the Dark Side and his final redemption.

Other stories are told in the EU material of books, comics, games, TV
shows, etc.

Re: ROTS [message #166440 ]

So, 20 November 2005 01:15

Guest

"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:201120051124317216%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <rQMff.675$Zb2.592 [at] newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, "Guest"
> <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You know, looking back on it, when Ben told Luke about Darth Vader, I
>> always
>> pictured a dark haired man in his early 30's and not some kid. I
>> expected
>> to see more Jedi adventures and little if any guns. Instead, we have
>> what
>> we have. Movies about Jedi's but not that many Jedi.
>
> The movie saga is only one story in the Star Wars universe - the story
> of Anakin Skywalker. It starts with him being discovered as a young
> boy, follows his rise and then fall within the Jedi order, his turn to
> the Dark Side and his final redemption.
>
> Other stories are told in the EU material of books, comics, games, TV
> shows, etc.

I don't recall writing about stories or other stories...

Re: ROTS [message #166459 ]

So, 20 November 2005 06:17

DKM

"Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rQMff.675$Zb2.592 [at] newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
> You know, looking back on it, when Ben told Luke about Darth Vader, I
> always pictured a dark haired man in his early 30's and not some kid. I
> expected to see more Jedi adventures and little if any guns. Instead, we
> have what we have. Movies about Jedi's but not that many Jedi.

Really? Why? I always pictured him young.

DKM

Re: ROTS [message #166460 ]

So, 20 November 2005 06:35

Guest

"DKM" <dkmfwtx [at] nospam.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:tFTff.23145$dO2.18159 [at] newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:rQMff.675$Zb2.592 [at] newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>> You know, looking back on it, when Ben told Luke about Darth Vader, I
>> always pictured a dark haired man in his early 30's and not some kid. I
>> expected to see more Jedi adventures and little if any guns. Instead, we
>> have what we have. Movies about Jedi's but not that many Jedi.
>
>
> Really? Why? I always pictured him young.
>
> DKM
>

Well, early 30's is young, but independent and non-childish, in general.

Re: ROTS [message #166463 ]

So, 20 November 2005 06:45

seanocity

Guest wrote:
> You know, looking back on it, when Ben told Luke about Darth Vader, I always
> pictured a dark haired man in his early 30's and not some kid.

Like, Sebastian Shaw but a little younger? Me too. ;p

--
Sean

Re: ROTS [message #166472 ]

So, 20 November 2005 17:01

DKM

"Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VWTff.1149$Y%5.209 [at] newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "DKM" <dkmfwtx [at] nospam.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:tFTff.23145$dO2.18159 [at] newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> "Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:rQMff.675$Zb2.592 [at] newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>>> You know, looking back on it, when Ben told Luke about Darth Vader, I
>>> always pictured a dark haired man in his early 30's and not some kid. I
>>> expected to see more Jedi adventures and little if any guns. Instead,
>>> we have what we have. Movies about Jedi's but not that many Jedi.
>>
>>
>> Really? Why? I always pictured him young.
>>
>> DKM
>>
>
> Well, early 30's is young, but independent and non-childish, in general.

Are you talking about in ANH or in ROTJ?

DKM

Re: ROTS [message #166480 ]

So, 20 November 2005 20:51

Anybody

In article <VWTff.1149$Y%5.209 [at] newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>, "Guest"
<n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

> "DKM" <dkmfwtx [at] nospam.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:tFTff.23145$dO2.18159 [at] newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> >
> > "Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:rQMff.675$Zb2.592 [at] newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
> >> You know, looking back on it, when Ben told Luke about Darth Vader, I
> >> always pictured a dark haired man in his early 30's and not some kid. I
> >> expected to see more Jedi adventures and little if any guns. Instead, we
> >> have what we have. Movies about Jedi's but not that many Jedi.
> >
> >
> > Really? Why? I always pictured him young.
>
> Well, early 30's is young, but independent and non-childish, in general.

"In general"!?!? More like very rare. Most early 30s people these days
are still VERY childish.

Re: ROTS [message #166481 ]

So, 20 November 2005 20:56

Anybody

In article <1132465522.068325.4130 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "Sean
Walsh: Piettus Worshipus" <seanocity [at] gmail.com> wrote:

> Guest wrote:
> > You know, looking back on it, when Ben told Luke about Darth Vader, I always
> > pictured a dark haired man in his early 30's and not some kid.
>
> Like, Sebastian Shaw but a little younger? Me too. ;p

That's probably because you assumed the Jedi were like a navy or police
force with people joining aged early 20s and becomeing Jedi Knights in
their late-20s or early-30s.

But as we know (and knew somewhat since Yoda's too old comment in
Episode V), Jedi start their training very young.

Re: ROTS [message #166483 ]

So, 20 November 2005 21:43

Guest

"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:211120050856430354%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <1132465522.068325.4130 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "Sean
> Walsh: Piettus Worshipus" <seanocity [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Guest wrote:
>> > You know, looking back on it, when Ben told Luke about Darth Vader, I
>> > always
>> > pictured a dark haired man in his early 30's and not some kid.
>>
>> Like, Sebastian Shaw but a little younger? Me too. ;p
>
> That's probably because you assumed the Jedi were like a navy or police
> force with people joining aged early 20s and becomeing Jedi Knights in
> their late-20s or early-30s.
>
> But as we know (and knew somewhat since Yoda's too old comment in
> Episode V), Jedi start their training very young.

But what we did not know or assume was Anakin to be young and hardly 25.
Because, in case you MISSED it, Ben says:"I was once a Jedi KNIGHT, like
your father." At that point, the only Jedi master we knew that could exists
was Yoda. So if Kenobi was a Jedi Knight like Anakin and Ben is old and
then we saw the Vader was about the same age as Ben when he died, it only
stands to reason that Anakin should have been older when he was a Jedi.

Re: ROTS [message #166486 ]

Mo, 21 November 2005 00:29

DKM

"Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ld5gf.912$Ba6.172 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message

>> That's probably because you assumed the Jedi were like a navy or police
>> force with people joining aged early 20s and becomeing Jedi Knights in
>> their late-20s or early-30s.
>>
>> But as we know (and knew somewhat since Yoda's too old comment in
>> Episode V), Jedi start their training very young.
>
> But what we did not know or assume was Anakin to be young and hardly 25.
> Because, in case you MISSED it, Ben says:"I was once a Jedi KNIGHT, like
> your father." At that point, the only Jedi master we knew that could
> exists was Yoda. So if Kenobi was a Jedi Knight like Anakin and Ben is
> old and then we saw the Vader was about the same age as Ben when he died,
> it only stands to reason that Anakin should have been older when he was a
> Jedi.

In case you MISSED we already knew that Anakin was younger then Obi-Wan.
Remember Ben told Luke "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of
mine until he turned to evil..." I had always assumed Vader was in his
early 20s at the time Luke's father died from that line.

DKM

Re: ROTS [message #166487 ]

Mo, 21 November 2005 00:51

Anybody

In article <nF7gf.21918$tV6.16777 [at] newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, "DKM"
<dkmfwtx [at] nospam.sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> "Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Ld5gf.912$Ba6.172 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
>
> >> That's probably because you assumed the Jedi were like a navy or police
> >> force with people joining aged early 20s and becomeing Jedi Knights in
> >> their late-20s or early-30s.
> >>
> >> But as we know (and knew somewhat since Yoda's too old comment in
> >> Episode V), Jedi start their training very young.
> >
> > But what we did not know or assume was Anakin to be young and hardly 25.
> > Because, in case you MISSED it, Ben says:"I was once a Jedi KNIGHT, like
> > your father." At that point, the only Jedi master we knew that could
> > exists was Yoda. So if Kenobi was a Jedi Knight like Anakin and Ben is
> > old and then we saw the Vader was about the same age as Ben when he died,
> > it only stands to reason that Anakin should have been older when he was a
> > Jedi.
>
> In case you MISSED we already knew that Anakin was younger then Obi-Wan.
> Remember Ben told Luke "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of
> mine until he turned to evil..." I had always assumed Vader was in his
> early 20s at the time Luke's father died from that line.

Plus Anakin only looked older when he died because of the injuries he
had from the lava and from using the Dark Side for so long.

Re: ROTS [message #166495 ]

Mo, 21 November 2005 03:39

Guest

"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:211120051251062335%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <nF7gf.21918$tV6.16777 [at] newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, "DKM"
> <dkmfwtx [at] nospam.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> "Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Ld5gf.912$Ba6.172 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>> >
>> > "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >> That's probably because you assumed the Jedi were like a navy or
>> >> police
>> >> force with people joining aged early 20s and becomeing Jedi Knights in
>> >> their late-20s or early-30s.
>> >>
>> >> But as we know (and knew somewhat since Yoda's too old comment in
>> >> Episode V), Jedi start their training very young.
>> >
>> > But what we did not know or assume was Anakin to be young and hardly
>> > 25.
>> > Because, in case you MISSED it, Ben says:"I was once a Jedi KNIGHT,
>> > like
>> > your father." At that point, the only Jedi master we knew that could
>> > exists was Yoda. So if Kenobi was a Jedi Knight like Anakin and Ben is
>> > old and then we saw the Vader was about the same age as Ben when he
>> > died,
>> > it only stands to reason that Anakin should have been older when he was
>> > a
>> > Jedi.
>>
>> In case you MISSED we already knew that Anakin was younger then Obi-Wan.
>> Remember Ben told Luke "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil
>> of
>> mine until he turned to evil..." I had always assumed Vader was in his
>> early 20s at the time Luke's father died from that line.
>
> Plus Anakin only looked older when he died because of the injuries he
> had from the lava and from using the Dark Side for so long.

Well, in the original ROTJ, Anakin looked to be about the same age as Ben.
Give or take maybe 5 years.

Re: ROTS [message #166496 ]

Mo, 21 November 2005 03:42

Guest

"DKM" <dkmfwtx [at] nospam.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nF7gf.21918$tV6.16777 [at] newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Ld5gf.912$Ba6.172 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
>
>>> That's probably because you assumed the Jedi were like a navy or police
>>> force with people joining aged early 20s and becomeing Jedi Knights in
>>> their late-20s or early-30s.
>>>
>>> But as we know (and knew somewhat since Yoda's too old comment in
>>> Episode V), Jedi start their training very young.
>>
>> But what we did not know or assume was Anakin to be young and hardly 25.
>> Because, in case you MISSED it, Ben says:"I was once a Jedi KNIGHT, like
>> your father." At that point, the only Jedi master we knew that could
>> exists was Yoda. So if Kenobi was a Jedi Knight like Anakin and Ben is
>> old and then we saw the Vader was about the same age as Ben when he died,
>> it only stands to reason that Anakin should have been older when he was a
>> Jedi.
>
>
> In case you MISSED we already knew that Anakin was younger then Obi-Wan.
> Remember Ben told Luke "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of
> mine until he turned to evil..." I had always assumed Vader was in his
> early 20s at the time Luke's father died from that line.
>
> DKM
>

Given that Kenobi is an old man when he is talking, even a 35 year old will
be a "young Jedi." When you combine that with Anakin being Luke's father
and showing Anakin in ROTJ, it becomes clear what age range Anakin was
supposed to have been. I guess reintroducing the series to younger
audiences made Lucas get into a young child, then young adult thing. While
Anakin looked more mature in ROTS, it just does not add up in ROTJ. Then
again, a 30 something year old could not play a 19 year old and then a 30
something year old so well. Looks wise.

Re: ROTS [message #166502 ]

Mo, 21 November 2005 04:11

Anybody

In article <qragf.761$Zb2.565 [at] newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, "Guest"
<n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:211120051251062335%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> > In article <nF7gf.21918$tV6.16777 [at] newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, "DKM"
> > <dkmfwtx [at] nospam.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:Ld5gf.912$Ba6.172 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> >> >
> >> > "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >> >> That's probably because you assumed the Jedi were like a navy or
> >> >> police
> >> >> force with people joining aged early 20s and becomeing Jedi Knights in
> >> >> their late-20s or early-30s.
> >> >>
> >> >> But as we know (and knew somewhat since Yoda's too old comment in
> >> >> Episode V), Jedi start their training very young.
> >> >
> >> > But what we did not know or assume was Anakin to be young and hardly
> >> > 25.
> >> > Because, in case you MISSED it, Ben says:"I was once a Jedi KNIGHT,
> >> > like
> >> > your father." At that point, the only Jedi master we knew that could
> >> > exists was Yoda. So if Kenobi was a Jedi Knight like Anakin and Ben is
> >> > old and then we saw the Vader was about the same age as Ben when he
> >> > died,
> >> > it only stands to reason that Anakin should have been older when he was
> >> > a
> >> > Jedi.
> >>
> >> In case you MISSED we already knew that Anakin was younger then Obi-Wan.
> >> Remember Ben told Luke "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil
> >> of
> >> mine until he turned to evil..." I had always assumed Vader was in his
> >> early 20s at the time Luke's father died from that line.
> >
> > Plus Anakin only looked older when he died because of the injuries he
> > had from the lava and from using the Dark Side for so long.
>
> Well, in the original ROTJ, Anakin looked to be about the same age as Ben.
> Give or take maybe 5 years.

As I just said, he LOOKED older then he really was because of the
injuries, but he wasn't the same as as Ben at all.

Re: ROTS [message #166526 ]

Mo, 21 November 2005 16:01

Guest

"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:211120051611474889%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <qragf.761$Zb2.565 [at] newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, "Guest"
> <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
>> news:211120051251062335%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
>> > In article <nF7gf.21918$tV6.16777 [at] newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, "DKM"
>> > <dkmfwtx [at] nospam.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:Ld5gf.912$Ba6.172 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>> >> >
>> >> > "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
>> >>
>> >> >> That's probably because you assumed the Jedi were like a navy or
>> >> >> police
>> >> >> force with people joining aged early 20s and becomeing Jedi Knights
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> their late-20s or early-30s.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But as we know (and knew somewhat since Yoda's too old comment in
>> >> >> Episode V), Jedi start their training very young.
>> >> >
>> >> > But what we did not know or assume was Anakin to be young and hardly
>> >> > 25.
>> >> > Because, in case you MISSED it, Ben says:"I was once a Jedi KNIGHT,
>> >> > like
>> >> > your father." At that point, the only Jedi master we knew that
>> >> > could
>> >> > exists was Yoda. So if Kenobi was a Jedi Knight like Anakin and Ben
>> >> > is
>> >> > old and then we saw the Vader was about the same age as Ben when he
>> >> > died,
>> >> > it only stands to reason that Anakin should have been older when he
>> >> > was
>> >> > a
>> >> > Jedi.
>> >>
>> >> In case you MISSED we already knew that Anakin was younger then
>> >> Obi-Wan.
>> >> Remember Ben told Luke "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a
>> >> pupil
>> >> of
>> >> mine until he turned to evil..." I had always assumed Vader was in
>> >> his
>> >> early 20s at the time Luke's father died from that line.
>> >
>> > Plus Anakin only looked older when he died because of the injuries he
>> > had from the lava and from using the Dark Side for so long.
>>
>> Well, in the original ROTJ, Anakin looked to be about the same age as
>> Ben.
>> Give or take maybe 5 years.
>
> As I just said, he LOOKED older then he really was because of the
> injuries, but he wasn't the same as as Ben at all.

I guess that is your 'fanboy' excuse? He LOOKED about the same age as
Kenobi with the mask off(regardless of injuries as we can tell an injury
from old age!) AND after he had come back to being good at the end of the
original ROTJ. Either you are too young to have seen the original or you
forgot?

Re: ROTS [message #166527 ]

Mo, 21 November 2005 16:18

Clams Canino

"Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Xilgf.1020

As a quick aside, they outta ILM that scar onto Vaders right eye when he
get's unmasked in VI.

-W

Re: ROTS [message #166528 ]

Mo, 21 November 2005 16:29

seanocity

Clams Canino wrote:
> "Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Xilgf.1020
>
>
> As a quick aside, they outta ILM that scar onto Vaders right eye when he
> get's unmasked in VI.

Why? I'm thinking getting horribly scarred all over his body from that
fire wiped that particular scar right out.

--
Sean

Re: ROTS [message #166537 ]

Mo, 21 November 2005 20:21

Anybody

In article <Xilgf.1020$Ba6.650 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>, "Guest"
<n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:211120051611474889%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> >
> > As I just said, he LOOKED older then he really was because of the
> > injuries, but he wasn't the same as as Ben at all.
>
> I guess that is your 'fanboy' excuse? He LOOKED about the same age as
> Kenobi with the mask off(regardless of injuries as we can tell an injury
> from old age!) AND after he had come back to being good at the end of the
> original ROTJ. Either you are too young to have seen the original or you
> forgot?

It's not a "fanyboy excuse" - it's the proper answer.

As someone else has given a quote for, we already knew Anakin was
younger than Ben.

As usual it's the fools who sit in front of the cinema / TV screen with
their brains truned off that complain about so-called "problems" that
don't even exist. :-\

Re: ROTS [message #172009 ]

Mo, 21 November 2005 23:31

SpammersDie

"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:221120050903592100%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <Xilgf.1020$Ba6.650 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>, "Guest"
> <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
>> news:211120051611474889%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
>> >
>> > As I just said, he LOOKED older then he really was because of the
>> > injuries, but he wasn't the same as as Ben at all.
>>
>> I guess that is your 'fanboy' excuse? He LOOKED about the same age as
>> Kenobi with the mask off(regardless of injuries as we can tell an injury
>> from old age!) AND after he had come back to being good at the end of the
>> original ROTJ. Either you are too young to have seen the original or you
>> forgot?
>
> It's not a "fanyboy excuse" - it's the proper answer.
>
> As someone else has given a quote for, we already knew Anakin was
> younger than Ben.

All we knew was that Obi-Wan said "A young Jedi named Darth Vader who was a
pupil of mine.." Back in 1977, I was foolish enough to believe Obi-Wan so I
pictured DV as a young kid - much like he's portrayed in ROTS.

By 1983, we already knew that Obi-Wan lied about lots of things so it's not
at all far-fetched to believe he also misrepresented DV's age as well in
order to keep Luke thinking of Anakin and DV as two separate people.

All that remains established is that Obi-Wan trained DV to be a Jedi. That
does not establish that Obi-Wan was older than DV. Given that in 1983, we
had no knowledge of the typical age that Jedi began training, it was quite
conceivable that Obi-Wan and DV were contemporaries and Obi-Wan was the
trainer due to experience, not age.

What we *did* know in 1983 was what Anakin looked like physically, or at
least that he projected himself as a Sebastian Shaw lookalike at the Endor
roast. And that projection was no 45 year old. You can't blame people for
relying on their own eyes and perception over anything that liar Obi-Wan
says.

Re: ROTS [message #172015 ]

Di, 22 November 2005 00:49

Anybody

In article <hVrgf.78798$qk4.49030 [at] bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:

> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:221120050903592100%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> > In article <Xilgf.1020$Ba6.650 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>, "Guest"
> > <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> >> news:211120051611474889%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> >> >
> >> > As I just said, he LOOKED older then he really was because of the
> >> > injuries, but he wasn't the same as as Ben at all.
> >>
> >> I guess that is your 'fanboy' excuse? He LOOKED about the same age as
> >> Kenobi with the mask off(regardless of injuries as we can tell an injury
> >> from old age!) AND after he had come back to being good at the end of the
> >> original ROTJ. Either you are too young to have seen the original or you
> >> forgot?
> >
> > It's not a "fanyboy excuse" - it's the proper answer.
> >
> > As someone else has given a quote for, we already knew Anakin was
> > younger than Ben.
>
> All we knew was that Obi-Wan said "A young Jedi named Darth Vader who was a
> pupil of mine.." Back in 1977, I was foolish enough to believe Obi-Wan so I
> pictured DV as a young kid - much like he's portrayed in ROTS.
>
> By 1983, we already knew that Obi-Wan lied about lots of things so it's not
> at all far-fetched to believe he also misrepresented DV's age as well in
> order to keep Luke thinking of Anakin and DV as two separate people.
>
> All that remains established is that Obi-Wan trained DV to be a Jedi. That
> does not establish that Obi-Wan was older than DV. Given that in 1983, we
> had no knowledge of the typical age that Jedi began training, it was quite
> conceivable that Obi-Wan and DV were contemporaries and Obi-Wan was the
> trainer due to experience, not age.
>
> What we *did* know in 1983 was what Anakin looked like physically, or at
> least that he projected himself as a Sebastian Shaw lookalike at the Endor
> roast. And that projection was no 45 year old. You can't blame people for
> relying on their own eyes and perception over anything that liar Obi-Wan
> says.

We also know that Anakin wore the Vader suit because he had massive
injuries and couldn't survive without it, therefore it's extremely
likely that he looks older than he really is.

Re: ROTS [message #172018 ]

Di, 22 November 2005 01:52

DKM

"Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Tuagf.762$Zb2.40 [at] newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...

>> In case you MISSED we already knew that Anakin was younger then Obi-Wan.
>> Remember Ben told Luke "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil
>> of mine until he turned to evil..." I had always assumed Vader was in
>> his early 20s at the time Luke's father died from that line.
>>
>> DKM
>>
>
> Given that Kenobi is an old man when he is talking, even a 35 year old
> will be a "young Jedi." When you combine that with Anakin being Luke's
> father and showing Anakin in ROTJ, it becomes clear what age range Anakin
> was supposed to have been. I guess reintroducing the series to younger
> audiences made Lucas get into a young child, then young adult thing.
> While Anakin looked more mature in ROTS, it just does not add up in ROTJ.
> Then again, a 30 something year old could not play a 19 year old and then
> a 30 something year old so well. Looks wise.

I always figured Obi-Wan was around 60 in ANH (I guess now we know he was
around 58) so he would have been around 40 when Luke was born since I
guessed Luke as 20. Obi-Wan said Vader was "young" when he betrayed the
Jedi so I figured Vader was in his early twenties at the time. I just
thought Shaw looked too old for the part.

Lucas has stated that originally Anakin was suppose to be 13 in TPM, but
decided to make him younger because he wanted to make the separation from
his mother more traumatic and the spark of his fall.

Re: ROTS [message #172049 ]

Mi, 23 November 2005 02:09

Guest

Re: ROTS [message #172050 ]

Mi, 23 November 2005 02:12

Guest

"Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
news:221120051249488346%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> In article <hVrgf.78798$qk4.49030 [at] bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:
>
>> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
>> news:221120050903592100%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
>> > In article <Xilgf.1020$Ba6.650 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>, "Guest"
>> > <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:211120051611474889%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
>> >> >
>> >> > As I just said, he LOOKED older then he really was because of the
>> >> > injuries, but he wasn't the same as as Ben at all.
>> >>
>> >> I guess that is your 'fanboy' excuse? He LOOKED about the same age as
>> >> Kenobi with the mask off(regardless of injuries as we can tell an
>> >> injury
>> >> from old age!) AND after he had come back to being good at the end of
>> >> the
>> >> original ROTJ. Either you are too young to have seen the original or
>> >> you
>> >> forgot?
>> >
>> > It's not a "fanyboy excuse" - it's the proper answer.
>> >
>> > As someone else has given a quote for, we already knew Anakin was
>> > younger than Ben.
>>
>> All we knew was that Obi-Wan said "A young Jedi named Darth Vader who was
>> a
>> pupil of mine.." Back in 1977, I was foolish enough to believe Obi-Wan so
>> I
>> pictured DV as a young kid - much like he's portrayed in ROTS.
>>
>> By 1983, we already knew that Obi-Wan lied about lots of things so it's
>> not
>> at all far-fetched to believe he also misrepresented DV's age as well in
>> order to keep Luke thinking of Anakin and DV as two separate people.
>>
>> All that remains established is that Obi-Wan trained DV to be a Jedi.
>> That
>> does not establish that Obi-Wan was older than DV. Given that in 1983, we
>> had no knowledge of the typical age that Jedi began training, it was
>> quite
>> conceivable that Obi-Wan and DV were contemporaries and Obi-Wan was the
>> trainer due to experience, not age.
>>
>> What we *did* know in 1983 was what Anakin looked like physically, or at
>> least that he projected himself as a Sebastian Shaw lookalike at the
>> Endor
>> roast. And that projection was no 45 year old. You can't blame people for
>> relying on their own eyes and perception over anything that liar Obi-Wan
>> says.
>
> We also know that Anakin wore the Vader suit because he had massive
> injuries and couldn't survive without it, therefore it's extremely
> likely that he looks older than he really is.

Like the man wrote, at the end of ROTJ we see what Anakin looks like without
injuries and he was around 55-60 years old.

Re: ROTS [message #172051 ]

Mi, 23 November 2005 02:15

Guest

"DKM" <dkmfwtx [at] nospam.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:bZtgf.23554$dO2.11870 [at] newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Tuagf.762$Zb2.40 [at] newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
>
>>> In case you MISSED we already knew that Anakin was younger then Obi-Wan.
>>> Remember Ben told Luke "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil
>>> of mine until he turned to evil..." I had always assumed Vader was in
>>> his early 20s at the time Luke's father died from that line.
>>>
>>> DKM
>>>
>>
>> Given that Kenobi is an old man when he is talking, even a 35 year old
>> will be a "young Jedi." When you combine that with Anakin being Luke's
>> father and showing Anakin in ROTJ, it becomes clear what age range Anakin
>> was supposed to have been. I guess reintroducing the series to younger
>> audiences made Lucas get into a young child, then young adult thing.
>> While Anakin looked more mature in ROTS, it just does not add up in ROTJ.
>> Then again, a 30 something year old could not play a 19 year old and then
>> a 30 something year old so well. Looks wise.
>
> I always figured Obi-Wan was around 60 in ANH (I guess now we know he was
> around 58) so he would have been around 40 when Luke was born since I
> guessed Luke as 20. Obi-Wan said Vader was "young" when he betrayed the
> Jedi so I figured Vader was in his early twenties at the time. I just
> thought Shaw looked too old for the part.
>
> Lucas has stated that originally Anakin was suppose to be 13 in TPM, but
> decided to make him younger because he wanted to make the separation from
> his mother more traumatic and the spark of his fall.
>

Easy to say that you thought Anakin was young now. Back then everyone was
thinking he was older. Again(!), in ROTJ that says it all. Not the revised
and rearranged DVD Jedi, but the original or even the SE. It is clear what
Lucas original vision on Anakin was. Now that I think of it, that had
something to do with my perception on what he should have looked like and
his age. This could also have something to do with why Lucas changed him
around in the DVD....

Re: ROTS [message #172058 ]

Mi, 23 November 2005 03:11

DKM

Guest wrote:
>
> Easy to say that you thought Anakin was young now.

It was easy for me to say back when I saw ESB because I was already
thinking Vader was younger before we learned he was Daddy.

I can have some friends post about the fact we had this very debate
back then.

DKM

Re: ROTS [message #172065 ]

Mi, 23 November 2005 04:20

Anybody

In article <UlPgf.810$fO5.741 [at] newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>, "Guest"
<n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:221120051249488346%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> > In article <hVrgf.78798$qk4.49030 [at] bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > "SpammersDie" <xx [at] xx.xx> wrote:
> >
> >> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> >> news:221120050903592100%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> >> > In article <Xilgf.1020$Ba6.650 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>, "Guest"
> >> > <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:211120051611474889%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > As I just said, he LOOKED older then he really was because of the
> >> >> > injuries, but he wasn't the same as as Ben at all.
> >> >>
> >> >> I guess that is your 'fanboy' excuse? He LOOKED about the same age as
> >> >> Kenobi with the mask off(regardless of injuries as we can tell an
> >> >> injury
> >> >> from old age!) AND after he had come back to being good at the end of
> >> >> the
> >> >> original ROTJ. Either you are too young to have seen the original or
> >> >> you
> >> >> forgot?
> >> >
> >> > It's not a "fanyboy excuse" - it's the proper answer.
> >> >
> >> > As someone else has given a quote for, we already knew Anakin was
> >> > younger than Ben.
> >>
> >> All we knew was that Obi-Wan said "A young Jedi named Darth Vader who was
> >> a
> >> pupil of mine.." Back in 1977, I was foolish enough to believe Obi-Wan so
> >> I
> >> pictured DV as a young kid - much like he's portrayed in ROTS.
> >>
> >> By 1983, we already knew that Obi-Wan lied about lots of things so it's
> >> not
> >> at all far-fetched to believe he also misrepresented DV's age as well in
> >> order to keep Luke thinking of Anakin and DV as two separate people.
> >>
> >> All that remains established is that Obi-Wan trained DV to be a Jedi.
> >> That
> >> does not establish that Obi-Wan was older than DV. Given that in 1983, we
> >> had no knowledge of the typical age that Jedi began training, it was
> >> quite
> >> conceivable that Obi-Wan and DV were contemporaries and Obi-Wan was the
> >> trainer due to experience, not age.
> >>
> >> What we *did* know in 1983 was what Anakin looked like physically, or at
> >> least that he projected himself as a Sebastian Shaw lookalike at the
> >> Endor
> >> roast. And that projection was no 45 year old. You can't blame people for
> >> relying on their own eyes and perception over anything that liar Obi-Wan
> >> says.
> >
> > We also know that Anakin wore the Vader suit because he had massive
> > injuries and couldn't survive without it, therefore it's extremely
> > likely that he looks older than he really is.
>
> Like the man wrote, at the end of ROTJ we see what Anakin looks like without
> injuries and he was around 55-60 years old.

It was still the same Anakin, only the physical scars were missing. Now
that has been replaced by Hayden as the younger Anakin ... which makes
almot no sense at all. :-(

Re: ROTS [message #172066 ]

Mi, 23 November 2005 04:21

Anybody

In article <mjPgf.809$fO5.633 [at] newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>, "Guest"
<n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:221120050903592100%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> > In article <Xilgf.1020$Ba6.650 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>, "Guest"
> > <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> >> news:211120051611474889%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> >> >
> >> > As I just said, he LOOKED older then he really was because of the
> >> > injuries, but he wasn't the same as as Ben at all.
> >>
> >> I guess that is your 'fanboy' excuse? He LOOKED about the same age as
> >> Kenobi with the mask off(regardless of injuries as we can tell an injury
> >> from old age!) AND after he had come back to being good at the end of the
> >> original ROTJ. Either you are too young to have seen the original or you
> >> forgot?
> >
> > It's not a "fanyboy excuse" - it's the proper answer.
> >
> > As someone else has given a quote for, we already knew Anakin was
> > younger than Ben.
> >
> > As usual it's the fools who sit in front of the cinema / TV screen with
> > their brains truned off that complain about so-called "problems" that
> > don't even exist. :-\
>
> No - it's the 'think we know it all' nerds who make excuses for things that
> just do not exist.

As usual, if you're not going to believe the answers, then don't bother
wasting our time asking the questions. :-\

Re: ROTS [message #172084 ]

Do, 24 November 2005 01:21

j porter

"Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xilgf.1020$Ba6.650 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:211120051611474889%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> > In article <qragf.761$Zb2.565 [at] newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, "Guest"
> > <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> >> news:211120051251062335%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> >> > In article <nF7gf.21918$tV6.16777 [at] newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, "DKM"
> >> > <dkmfwtx [at] nospam.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:Ld5gf.912$Ba6.172 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> >> That's probably because you assumed the Jedi were like a navy or
> >> >> >> police
> >> >> >> force with people joining aged early 20s and becomeing Jedi
Knights
> >> >> >> in
> >> >> >> their late-20s or early-30s.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> But as we know (and knew somewhat since Yoda's too old comment in
> >> >> >> Episode V), Jedi start their training very young.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But what we did not know or assume was Anakin to be young and
hardly
> >> >> > 25.
> >> >> > Because, in case you MISSED it, Ben says:"I was once a Jedi
KNIGHT,
> >> >> > like
> >> >> > your father." At that point, the only Jedi master we knew that
> >> >> > could
> >> >> > exists was Yoda. So if Kenobi was a Jedi Knight like Anakin and
Ben
> >> >> > is
> >> >> > old and then we saw the Vader was about the same age as Ben when
he
> >> >> > died,
> >> >> > it only stands to reason that Anakin should have been older when
he
> >> >> > was
> >> >> > a
> >> >> > Jedi.
> >> >>
> >> >> In case you MISSED we already knew that Anakin was younger then
> >> >> Obi-Wan.
> >> >> Remember Ben told Luke "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a
> >> >> pupil
> >> >> of
> >> >> mine until he turned to evil..." I had always assumed Vader was in
> >> >> his
> >> >> early 20s at the time Luke's father died from that line.
> >> >
> >> > Plus Anakin only looked older when he died because of the injuries he
> >> > had from the lava and from using the Dark Side for so long.
> >>
> >> Well, in the original ROTJ, Anakin looked to be about the same age as
> >> Ben.
> >> Give or take maybe 5 years.
> >
> > As I just said, he LOOKED older then he really was because of the
> > injuries, but he wasn't the same as as Ben at all.
>
> I guess that is your 'fanboy' excuse? He LOOKED about the same age as
> Kenobi with the mask off(regardless of injuries as we can tell an injury
> from old age!) AND after he had come back to being good at the end of the
> original ROTJ. Either you are too young to have seen the original or you
> forgot?
>
>
Alexander the Great conquered basicly the known world in his twenties. We
can safely assume that the chosen one of the Jedi is at least that good. For
someone so fixated on Anakin being in his 30's when this happened, because
you say its a more mature age, you have acted antagonistic, and downright
snide at times. I guess that other poster was right, some folks in their
thirtoes do act like kids now.

Re: ROTS [message #172085 ]

Do, 24 November 2005 01:24

j porter

"Guest" <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mjPgf.809$fO5.633 [at] newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> news:221120050903592100%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> > In article <Xilgf.1020$Ba6.650 [at] newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>, "Guest"
> > <n0gar [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Anybody" <anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com> wrote in message
> >> news:211120051611474889%anybody [at] anywhere-anytime.com...
> >> >
> >> > As I just said, he LOOKED older then he really was because of the
> >> > injuries, but he wasn't the same as as Ben at all.
> >>
> >> I guess that is your 'fanboy' excuse? He LOOKED about the same age as
> >> Kenobi with the mask off(regardless of injuries as we can tell an
injury
> >> from old age!) AND after he had come back to being good at the end of
the
> >> original ROTJ. Either you are too young to have seen the original or
you
> >> forgot?
> >
> > It's not a "fanyboy excuse" - it's the proper answer.
> >
> > As someone else has given a quote for, we already knew Anakin was
> > younger than Ben.
> >
> > As usual it's the fools who sit in front of the cinema / TV screen with
> > their brains truned off that complain about so-called "problems" that
> > don't even exist. :-\
>
> No - it's the 'think we know it all' nerds who make excuses for things
that
> just do not exist.
>
>
Anyone who posts in a newsgroup should probably stay away from the word
nerd, as non-nerds wouldnt be caught dead posting here.

Re: ROTS [message #172095 ]

Do, 24 November 2005 04:15

Anybody

In article <MH7hf.32580$uC3.10229 [at] twister.nyroc.rr.com>, "j porter"
<mporter1 [at] twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I guess that other poster was right, some folks in their
> thirtoes do act like kids now.

Unfortunately there are lost of kids who are MUCH better behaved and
more mature then many people in their 30's these days. :-\

Vorheriges Thema:	After watching Eps. III & IV
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