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Science Fiction » alt.fan.starwars » Star Wars without the prequels...
Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166288] Mo, 14 November 2005 12:12
Petertje  
Hi group,

It is my opinion that as the prequels were released over the last couple of
years, with each of the prequel released, the magic of Star Wars somehow
became less and less. It seems like the more of the story was told, the less
magical it became.

In the OT, the Force was this magical thing and needed absolutely no
(scientific) explanation of what it was. Noone I know needed a
rationalisation of the Force (like the midchlorians). also, no-one I know
needed an explanation of why Darth Vader was such an evil person. Again, the
mystery about his unknown past made him all the more scarier and seeing him
as a self-centred brat takes away a lot of his allure. And there are many
more examples of storyline that has been displayed in the prequels that I
think were not necessary.

I think the story as presented, with all the open questions, in the OT was
enough of the story. As in many art forms, sometimes it is more important
what you leave out in your work, than what you put in.

I'm still a Star Wars fan, but mostly of the original series. Anyone else
who feels like that the prequels do not add anything special or exciting to
the story?
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166289 ] Mo, 14 November 2005 12:31
Darth Mura  
> Anyone else
> who feels like that the prequels do not add anything special or exciting to
> the story?

After seeing Enterprise I can understand how you might feel. But for
me the prequals helped bring a new appreciation of the OT. Maybe
you're just feeling nostalgic.
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166290 ] Mo, 14 November 2005 12:39
Petertje  
On 11/14/05 12:31 PM, in article
1131967877.072295.275790 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Darth Mura"
<shridurga [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
>> Anyone else
>> who feels like that the prequels do not add anything special or exciting to
>> the story?
>
> After seeing Enterprise I can understand how you might feel. But for
> me the prequals helped bring a new appreciation of the OT. Maybe
> you're just feeling nostalgic.


Hehe, I have considered that last possibility yes :-) But I do wonder how
new viewers witness the new movies - apart from the anachronisms that the
prequels have introduced.

The only parts that I really liked about the prequels was Qui-Gonn, who
really did have a very Jedi like appearance and attitude, Paplpatine and
Obi-Wan. I think Obi Wan character was consistent with the original trilogy
and we see some of the insecurities and failures of Obi- Wan who mentioned
them to Luke in the OT ('I thought I could be as good a teacher as Yoda, but
I was wrong').

But as far as Darth Vader's (or Anakin if you will) part is concerned I feel
it has failed miserably to make a believable and emotional story.

Thanks for the post tough, always nice to have someone with a different
opinion to join the discussion instead of the usual mudthrowing around here
;-)
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166291 ] Mo, 14 November 2005 15:34
1CTHOMSON1  
You guys r a bunch of nerds, get a proper job u losers
"Petertje" <petertje_he [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BF9E3616.21094%petertje_he [at] hotmail.com...
> On 11/14/05 12:31 PM, in article
> 1131967877.072295.275790 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Darth Mura"
> <shridurga [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >> Anyone else
> >> who feels like that the prequels do not add anything special or
exciting to
> >> the story?
> >
> > After seeing Enterprise I can understand how you might feel. But for
> > me the prequals helped bring a new appreciation of the OT. Maybe
> > you're just feeling nostalgic.
>
>
> Hehe, I have considered that last possibility yes :-) But I do wonder how
> new viewers witness the new movies - apart from the anachronisms that the
> prequels have introduced.
>
> The only parts that I really liked about the prequels was Qui-Gonn, who
> really did have a very Jedi like appearance and attitude, Paplpatine and
> Obi-Wan. I think Obi Wan character was consistent with the original
trilogy
> and we see some of the insecurities and failures of Obi- Wan who
mentioned
> them to Luke in the OT ('I thought I could be as good a teacher as Yoda,
but
> I was wrong').
>
> But as far as Darth Vader's (or Anakin if you will) part is concerned I
feel
> it has failed miserably to make a believable and emotional story.
>
> Thanks for the post tough, always nice to have someone with a different
> opinion to join the discussion instead of the usual mudthrowing around
here
> ;-)
>
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166292 ] Mo, 14 November 2005 15:46
Petertje  
On 11/14/05 3:34 PM, in article dla77f$c4g$1 [at] newsfeed.th.ifl.net,
"1CTHOMSON1" <1CTHOMSON1 [at] larkhall.s-lanark.sch.uk> wrote:

> You guys r a bunch of nerds, get a proper job u losers

Yes, I am a nerd and I already have a proper job. Am not sure about the
loser part but I'm sure I am considered less a loser than someone who goes
to a star wars usenet group to tell other people that they are losers. In
amazingly bad grammar I might add.
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166294 ] Mo, 14 November 2005 17:59
Sty  
>> You guys r a bunch of nerds, get a proper job u losers
>
> Yes, I am a nerd and I already have a proper job. Am not sure about the
> loser part but I'm sure I am considered less a loser than someone who goes
> to a star wars usenet group to tell other people that they are losers. In
> amazingly bad grammar I might add.
^^^ ^^^^^^
Maybe he was inspired by Yoda.
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166296 ] Mo, 14 November 2005 19:12
Jedi Jonny  
"Sty" <rensoNO [at] SPAMgmx.net> wrote in message
news:4378b49c$0$2338$ba620dc5 [at] text.nova.planet.nl...
> >> You guys r a bunch of nerds, get a proper job u losers
> >
> > Yes, I am a nerd and I already have a proper job. Am not sure about the
> > loser part but I'm sure I am considered less a loser than someone who
goes
> > to a star wars usenet group to tell other people that they are losers.
In
> > amazingly bad grammar I might add.
> ^^^ ^^^^^^
> Maybe he was inspired by Yoda.
>

Inspired by Yoda, he was.... dont you mean lol
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166298 ] Mo, 14 November 2005 23:21
This old Bob  
"Petertje" <petertje_he [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BF9E2F95.2108C%petertje_he [at] hotmail.com...
> Hi group,
>
> It is my opinion that as the prequels were released over the last couple
> of
> years, with each of the prequel released, the magic of Star Wars somehow
> became less and less. It seems like the more of the story was told, the
> less
> magical it became.

Yeah, I could see that.

The other night we were watching #5 and I said to my 10 year old daughter
who doesn't like the prequels, I wonder if it would have been better if they
were released in reverse order, so that the last release is Ani as that cool
little boy. I dunno,. Just a thought, and probably not the first to think of
this.
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166307 ] Di, 15 November 2005 03:06
fish  
Petertje sez...

> I think the story as presented, the OT was enough of the story.

I got rid of every DVD except for Episodes III and IV.

I have the complete story and am very happy with just two DVD's.

> I'm still a Star Wars fan

Me too.

No need to expand on why you have a preference. You just do.

May the force be with you!

--
______________
=====fish=====
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166323 ] Mi, 16 November 2005 06:53
Carin  
YES! I like ROTS as a movie (and the other two have their moments) - but
feel "Star Wars" was better before the prequels came along.
A lot of what made Star Wars great was changed by the prequels. I feel like
some of the magic is gone.

"Petertje" <petertje_he [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BF9E2F95.2108C%petertje_he [at] hotmail.com...
> Hi group,
>
> It is my opinion that as the prequels were released over the last couple
of
> years, with each of the prequel released, the magic of Star Wars somehow
> became less and less. It seems like the more of the story was told, the
less
> magical it became.
>
> In the OT, the Force was this magical thing and needed absolutely no
> (scientific) explanation of what it was. Noone I know needed a
> rationalisation of the Force (like the midchlorians). also, no-one I know
> needed an explanation of why Darth Vader was such an evil person. Again,
the
> mystery about his unknown past made him all the more scarier and seeing
him
> as a self-centred brat takes away a lot of his allure. And there are many
> more examples of storyline that has been displayed in the prequels that I
> think were not necessary.
>
> I think the story as presented, with all the open questions, in the OT was
> enough of the story. As in many art forms, sometimes it is more important
> what you leave out in your work, than what you put in.
>
> I'm still a Star Wars fan, but mostly of the original series. Anyone else
> who feels like that the prequels do not add anything special or exciting
to
> the story?
>
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166325 ] Mi, 16 November 2005 13:25
MDChubb  
I think the original trilogy could stand very well on it's own. In fact
it did for over a decade and a half. All the back story didn't need to
be explained to appreciate the story, any more than we really need to
know exactly what a "nerf herder" is (Yes, I know, someone who herds
"nerfs", but what's a "nerf" then?).

That said, I don't think the prequels detract from the "magic"
necessarily. It provides for a little more detail and insight into the
characters and events. While it's not completely necessary, it's not an
entirely bad thing either.

It's curious to me, the reactions to the prequels, though. I have a
friend who claims he "likes to pretend they don't exist". As evidenced
by the popularity of the EU, there are plenty of fans clamoring for new
material. Of course then, when Lucas finally gives it to them, all they
do is complain. Mostly, I suspect, because it isn't exactly what THEY
wanted.

Yes, the prequels could have been better. By the same token, they could
have been worse too. Of course, we'll find out in 2007 when the 30th
anniversary super deluxe mega ultra not to be rereleased until the next
Christmas season box set comes out. Lucas' tinkering may provide for
prequels that are better. Or worse.
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166327 ] Mi, 16 November 2005 15:47
Clams Canino  
In hindsight, have now seen all 6 in the 1-6 order, I think the NT makes the
OT look almost black and white. I think Lucas outta "rape a few more
childhoods" and really ILM the shit outta 4-6. They looked great UNTIL you
had to watch them after 1-3. Even turning up the color saturation on them
would help a little, but they really need to get a full ILM facelift.

Assuming they stay "as is" - I think the 4,5,1,2,3,6 order that I
postulated might be the ticket afterall.

-W

"Michael Chubb" <MDChubb [at] webtv.net> wrote in message
news:7699-437B2540-18 [at] storefull-3317.bay.webtv.net...
> I think the original trilogy could stand very well on it's own. In fact
> it did for over a decade and a half. All the back story didn't need to
> be explained to appreciate the story, any more than we really need to
> know exactly what a "nerf herder" is (Yes, I know, someone who herds
> "nerfs", but what's a "nerf" then?).
>
> That said, I don't think the prequels detract from the "magic"
> necessarily. It provides for a little more detail and insight into the
> characters and events. While it's not completely necessary, it's not an
> entirely bad thing either.
>
> It's curious to me, the reactions to the prequels, though. I have a
> friend who claims he "likes to pretend they don't exist". As evidenced
> by the popularity of the EU, there are plenty of fans clamoring for new
> material. Of course then, when Lucas finally gives it to them, all they
> do is complain. Mostly, I suspect, because it isn't exactly what THEY
> wanted.
>
> Yes, the prequels could have been better. By the same token, they could
> have been worse too. Of course, we'll find out in 2007 when the 30th
> anniversary super deluxe mega ultra not to be rereleased until the next
> Christmas season box set comes out. Lucas' tinkering may provide for
> prequels that are better. Or worse.
>
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166368 ] Do, 17 November 2005 23:24
fish  
Clams Canino sez...

> In hindsight, have now seen all 6 in the 1-6 order

That sounds brutal.

> Assuming they stay "as is"

As is in your collection, that is.

> I think the 4,5,1,2,3,6 order

I disagree.

My preference is 3,4.

That's it. I have only 2 DVD's and watched "A New Hope" last night.

I am satisfied that after Luke destroyed the Death Star, that was the end of
the Empire.

Goodbye.

--
______________
=====fish=====
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166380 ] Fr, 18 November 2005 02:48
JH  
> I'm still a Star Wars fan, but mostly of the original series. Anyone else
> who feels like that the prequels do not add anything special or exciting
to
> the story?

I agree completely- they are not necessary and I needed no literal
explanation of anything. However, if they were going to do pre-quels I wish
they would have focused more on Darth Vader's rise in power as an evil
entity than his childhood. The way GL when about it just seemed
self-serving.
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #166410 ] Fr, 18 November 2005 20:45
fish  
JH sez...

> .....if they were going to do pre-quels
> I wish they would have focused more
> on Darth Vader's rise in power as an
> evil entity than his childhood.

I sold out my other DVD's and kept just episodes III & IV because those two
movies tell the story for me.

I am not amused by Gungans, Ewoks or finding out that Luke kissed his sister
only to find out that Darth Vader is his father after his hand is sliced
off, only to have his friend, Han Solo Frozen in Carbonite because of his
trusted friend, Lando.

The story got so twisted, I am very satisfied with just episodes III & IV.

For those who desire all 6 episodes, then if it makes you happy, that's not
my business.

After watching the deleted scenes, I really would have strongly preferred
those scenes be in the movie. Sure, it would make the movie longer, but it
would also make it better because we are denied allot of valuable
information, such as the establishment of the Rebellion or Padme's Meeting
with Palpatine.

--
______________
=====fish=====
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #172005 ] Mo, 21 November 2005 21:58
imsjry  
fish wrote:
> I got rid of every DVD except for Episodes III and IV.
> I have the complete story and am very happy with just two DVD's.

This makes no sence...
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #172010 ] Mo, 21 November 2005 23:55
Solon  
_imsjry_ spoke thusly:
> fish wrote:
>> I got rid of every DVD except for Episodes III and IV.
>> I have the complete story and am very happy with just two DVD's.
>
> This makes no sence...

That's 'fish'. He/She is trying to be funny, by acting like an idiot.
--
usenetsolon [at] gmail.com
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #172020 ] Di, 22 November 2005 02:40
fish  
I execute the force choke on Solon for saying...

>>> I got rid of every DVD except for Episodes III and IV.
>>> I have the complete story and am very happy with just two DVD's.
>>
>> This makes no sence...
>
> That's 'fish'. He/She is trying to be funny, by acting like an idiot.

I find your lack of faith disturbing!

Episode III begins the adventure.
From the beginning, we are introduced to R2D2, Anakin, Obi-Wan and further
into the story, the rest of the main characters.

We know that Anakin secretly wed Padme.
We understood that what he did was forbidden by the Jedi code.

We learn about the Sith from the master himself.
We learn that the chancellor is actually the Sith Lord.
We are told that Dooku sliced off Anakin's arm.
We learn that Anakin becomes Darth Vader.
We see Anakin before the helmet.
We see the birth of the twins and learn that Luke and Leia are related.
We know that Darth Vader is their father.
We see the construction of the Death Star.

IF YOU WATCH EP. II, YOU WILL DISCOVER THAT ANAKIN'S ARM WAS NOT THE SAME
LENGTH AS IT WAS IN EP. 3 !!

IF YOU WATCH EP. I, YOU EXPOSE YOURSELF TO JAR JAR BINKS.

In Episode IV, we are introduced to some new characters, such as Luke, Han,
Leia.
We see Luke destroy the Death Star.

Movie is complete.
Everything in Episodes V and VI are already revealed in Ep. III.

And Damnit, if you watch any other episodes, you see what was already
established before.

Luke removes Vader's helmet.
Vader: Tell your sister, you were right!

Well of course Luke was right.

Goodbye.

--
______________
=====fish=====
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #172028 ] Di, 22 November 2005 08:25
Karrde  
"fish" <i.am.such.a.fish [at] atlantic.ocean> wrote in message
news:rbqff.1$mi2.0 [at] trnddc09...
> JH sez...
>
>> .....if they were going to do pre-quels
>> I wish they would have focused more
>> on Darth Vader's rise in power as an
>> evil entity than his childhood.
>
> I sold out my other DVD's and kept just episodes III & IV because those
> two
> movies tell the story for me.
>
> I am not amused by Gungans, Ewoks or finding out that Luke kissed his
> sister
> only to find out that Darth Vader is his father after his hand is sliced
> off, only to have his friend, Han Solo Frozen in Carbonite because of his
> trusted friend, Lando.

But with just 3 and 4, we still know that Luke kissed his sister.

> The story got so twisted, I am very satisfied with just episodes III & IV.
>
> For those who desire all 6 episodes, then if it makes you happy, that's
> not
> my business.

Some people just like ANH as a stand alone. Some like only the OT. Others
prefer the six movie Saga. Still others are satisfied with nothing less
than movies, novels, comics, card games, etc. Whatever. Enjoy what you
enjoy and don't let anyone piss in your Wheaties because they don't think
anyone should like the things that they don't.

--
--K
http://afssmugglersalliance.tripod.com/afs_faq.html

Current Action Figure Count: 1246
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #172037 ] Di, 22 November 2005 21:51
imsjry  
Karrde wrote:
>
> Some people just like ANH as a stand alone. Some like only the OT. Others
> prefer the six movie Saga. Still others are satisfied with nothing less
> than movies, novels, comics, card games, etc. Whatever. Enjoy what you
> enjoy and don't let anyone piss in your Wheaties because they don't think
> anyone should like the things that they don't.

That's fine, but to say that #2 or #5 don't add anything to the series
is just silly and plain wrong.
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #172047 ] Mi, 23 November 2005 01:59
bruno  
Michael Chubb wrote:
> I think the original trilogy could stand very well on it's own. In fact
> it did for over a decade and a half. All the back story didn't need to
> be explained to appreciate the story, any more than we really need to
> know exactly what a "nerf herder" is (Yes, I know, someone who herds
> "nerfs", but what's a "nerf" then?).

I tend to agree. All background information that is actually relevant
to the OT plot is already explicitly provided in Episodes IV-VI making
the prequels largely redundant. In fact, we already knew from the OT :
(1) that there was once upon a time an "old republic" which was
replaced by the empire; (2) that the Jedi were the guardians of peace
and justice in the old republic; (3) that Darth Vader was Luke's and
Leia's biological father and was himself a former Jedi named Anakin
Skywalker who turned to the dark side and helped hunt and kill all his
former comrades; (4) that Obi-Wan was once Anakin's master and a
general in the clone wars before he went into exile; (5) that there was
an old, wise Jedi master named Yoda who once also trained Obi-Wan; and
(6) that the emperor was a man named Palpatine who knew how to use the
dark side. What else is to tell then ?

I'm pretty sure most of you will disagree, but, as far as I see it, the
only significant new information in the prequels is the identity and
life history of Luke's mother. Unfortunately, GL turned Padm=E9 into
such a boring/dull character that even this tiny bit of Episodes I-III
that could be of interest to fans ended up becoming a huge
disappointment.
On the other hand, knowing how the empire was born or how the clone
wars began
is certainly nice, but again, going back to my initial point, is
neither necessary nor relevant to tell/understand/appreciate the story
in Episodes IV-VI.

> That said, I don't think the prequels detract from the "magic"
> necessarily. It provides for a little more detail and insight into the
> characters and events. While it's not completely necessary, it's not an
> entirely bad thing either.
>
> It's curious to me, the reactions to the prequels, though. I have a
> friend who claims he "likes to pretend they don't exist". As evidenced
> by the popularity of the EU, there are plenty of fans clamoring for new
> material. Of course then, when Lucas finally gives it to them, all they
> do is complain. Mostly, I suspect, because it isn't exactly what THEY
> wanted.
>
> Yes, the prequels could have been better. By the same token, they could
> have been worse too. Of course, we'll find out in 2007 when the 30th
> anniversary super deluxe mega ultra not to be rereleased until the next
> Christmas season box set comes out. Lucas' tinkering may provide for
> prequels that are better. Or worse.
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #172102 ] Do, 24 November 2005 09:21
Karrde  
"imsjry" <Imsjry [at] ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:1132692667.001236.97270 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Karrde wrote:
>>
>> Some people just like ANH as a stand alone. Some like only the OT.
>> Others
>> prefer the six movie Saga. Still others are satisfied with nothing less
>> than movies, novels, comics, card games, etc. Whatever. Enjoy what you
>> enjoy and don't let anyone piss in your Wheaties because they don't think
>> anyone should like the things that they don't.
>
> That's fine, but to say that #2 or #5 don't add anything to the series
> is just silly and plain wrong.

Some people (let it be clear that I am not one of them) think that they
don't add anything. Just because you and I don't agre doesn't make their
opinion wrong. I can debate all day long that the EU doesn't follow the
rules of the SW Universe as laid out by GL, but in the end all that matters
is whether or not you get enjoyment from the books.

--
--K
http://afssmugglersalliance.tripod.com/afs_faq.html

Current Action Figure Count: 1246
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #175624 ] Mo, 28 November 2005 23:03
Billy-Bob Thornhump  
IV was great, it was creative and truly something new under the sun.
It was a new genre. It could have and should have ended right there.

V didn't really need to happen, it was really just more of the same,
but still enjoyable. But it implied the existence of VI...

VI was just plain evil. Ewoks running around without pants and
breeding, and then the wrong side won. Tacked on plot. Hey let's
destroy another death star. That would be a real cliff hanger. No
wonder the actors looked bored.

Given that they were already milking it by VI, the prequels were just
piling on. From the thin plots, lousy scripts, horrid acting, video
game-like special effects etc. it's clear that no one even cared. The
prequels did nothing to advance the story. They were just out for a
fast buck, which they got, so we'll be subjected to more. God help us
all.
Re: Star Wars without the prequels... [message #175676 ] Mi, 30 November 2005 07:41
Karrde  
"Ewok Holocaust" <pnwms [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133215412.513804.183540 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> Given that they were already milking it by VI, the prequels were just
> piling on.

1999 called. It wants it's bitter fanboys back.

--
--K
http://afssmugglersalliance.tripod.com/afs_faq.html

Current Action Figure Count: 1254
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