| Trek and Sex [message #165981] |
Mi, 16 November 2005 02:25 |
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I just happened upon this article-
http://scifi.about.com/library/weekly/aa022003.htm
which among other things, says-
[...
But for the best example of a show that isn't afraid of dealing with
"issues" unless they're sexual -- at which point the show gains the maturity
level of a thirteen-year-old boy -- we have Enterprise. To understand just
how far Star Trek has fallen, consider the pro-sex sensibilities of Star
Trek: The Original Series. While today we tend to comment primarily on
Kirk's rampant libido, a more important part of the show's sexual message
wasn't that Kirk was randy, but that the women who joined him in his
sexuality weren't to be treated like whores. On the contrary, a woman could
want to sleep with him, enjoy sleeping with him, and talk about sleeping
with him and still be a fine, upstanding woman. Sure, they tended to die and
stuff, but they weren't vilified. For the 1960s, this was a pretty
revolutionary idea.
By contrast, and despite initial signs that sexuality would play a greater
role on the show than it did in VOY, DS9, and TNG, Enterprise has given us
little but "giggle and jiggle" sex meant to make us smirk at skin and laugh
at sex for being so "ooky." Tucker gets pregnant, and the Klingons chortle
so hard they almost pee on themselves. Archer and T'Pol get tied up
together, and he ends up with her breasts in his face. When poor T'Pol is
sexually attracted to a Vulcan male, he mind-rapes her. The only person
who's had sex for sure on the show is Hoshi, who "gets some" on Risa as a
joke against the poor men, who don't. In fact, when Tucker and Reed go to
Risa, they end up getting lured into the basement by two beautiful women who
turn out to be male alien muggers in disguise.
....]
I'm inclined to agree. The treatment of sex in every show after TOS was
utterly cringeworthy.
Ian
--
www.jaxtrawstudios.com
science fiction with shagging in it
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| Re: Trek and Sex [message #165991 ] |
Mi, 16 November 2005 16:20 |
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>I'm inclined to agree. The treatment of sex in every show after TOS was
>utterly cringeworthy.
>
>Ian
I don't think so. Sex is a fun & enjoyable pastime. It shouldn't be
taken to seriously, & a light-hearted approach to it on ST is right
IMO. How many people could say they wouldn't just love holo-sex? If
they were honest, probably only the very religious.
"Roll-on holo-suites" I say :o)
Kat
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| Re: Trek and Sex [message #165993 ] |
Mi, 16 November 2005 18:25 |
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Jaxtraw wrote:
> I'm inclined to agree. The treatment of sex in every show after TOS was
> utterly cringeworthy.
Yep, that's generally true. I would nitpick about how "randy" Kirk
actually was.
In fact, I have nitpicked it rather thoroughly:
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/toswomen.htm
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/kisskirk.htm
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/kirkgirls.htm
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| Re: Trek and Sex [message #165994 ] |
Mi, 16 November 2005 18:45 |
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spocksbrain [at] ntlworld.com wrote:
>>I'm inclined to agree. The treatment of sex in every show after TOS was
>>utterly cringeworthy.
> I don't think so. Sex is a fun & enjoyable pastime. It shouldn't be
> taken to seriously, & a light-hearted approach to it on ST is right
> IMO. How many people could say they wouldn't just love holo-sex?
<IMHO> Kirk wouldn't love it. He'd find the whole idea repugnant. His
idea of making love is to be with a special, real person. His idea of
what fun is includes things like playing chess with a real person (NOT
the computer) and running around outside in the real outdoors, breathing
real fresh air.
More than once in TOS we are shown that - or Kirk flat out admits that -
Kirk hates being cooped up and he craves the great outdoors. His
idea of fun is to go camping, to ride horses, to walk on a beach.
That's why he goes ashore every chance he can.
More than once his overpowering craving to commune with nature got him
into trouble.
Once Kirk realized that what he was experiencing in the Nexus wasn't
real, he ran out of there like a kid running out on the last day of
school. He wanted to get back to real life - because that's what really
matters to him.
Spock, OTOH, would probably like it. He likes playing chess against the
computer, and maybe even prefers it. Real people tend to annoy him, but
he'd probably enjoy interacting with holofolk, in an environment he
could control.
That's why Spock thought it was a good idea to dump Captain Pike with
the Talosians. He thought a life of fantasy was preferable to the
miserable reality that guy was stuck with. </IMHO>
Laura
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| Re: Trek and Sex [message #165995 ] |
Mi, 16 November 2005 19:01 |
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"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:GpudnXeH2_T39ubenZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> Jaxtraw wrote:
>
> > I'm inclined to agree. The treatment of sex in every show after TOS was
> > utterly cringeworthy.
>
> Yep, that's generally true. I would nitpick about how "randy" Kirk
> actually was.
>
> In fact, I have nitpicked it rather thoroughly:
>
>
> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/toswomen.htm
> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/kisskirk.htm
> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/kirkgirls.htm
>
Yes, I know about that POV :) but I subscribe to the more canonical one, of
Kirk as a somewhat lonely career driven heterosexual who grabs a little love
where he can. I'd rather not get into a row about that.
The article is talking about how women in TOS aren't denigrated for being
sex positive, and I think that's a good point. When Deela has her way with
Jim, the show doesn't cast judgement on her for it. The prosecutor in court
martial whose name I forget right now is portrayed simply as an independent
woman who at one point in the past had a grown up relationship with Kirk,
and has moved on. Etc.
Ian
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| Re: Trek and Sex [message #165996 ] |
Mi, 16 November 2005 19:11 |
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<spocksbrain [at] ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1132154415.983347.252740 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >I'm inclined to agree. The treatment of sex in every show after TOS was
> >utterly cringeworthy.
> >
> >Ian
>
>
> I don't think so. Sex is a fun & enjoyable pastime. It shouldn't be
> taken to seriously, & a light-hearted approach to it on ST is right
> IMO. How many people could say they wouldn't just love holo-sex? If
> they were honest, probably only the very religious.
> "Roll-on holo-suites" I say :o)
The later shows were caught in a cleft stick. I think some of the creators
wanted to portray sex like that, but US network TV is so repressed because
of the american taliban that they couldn't. People can't even use naughty
words, or civilisation might collapse or something. The result is it has to
fall back on nudge-nudge wink-wink innuendo and chaste imagery that ends up
looking childish and embarrassing.
Y'know. If Risa's the galaxy's biggest free sex theme park, if this is sex
tourism we're talking about, if you go there to bang hot members of your
preferred gender, let's out with in and say so. But they can't. So it all
ends up oddly toe-curling, Mr Riker with eyebrow raised and eyes a-twinkle,
know what I mean, eh, eh?
I'd say the shows don't portray sex as the fun and enjoyable pastime it is.
You have to go to a special planet to do it, or love yourself on the
holodeck, fer cryin' out loud.
Ian
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| Re: Trek and Sex [message #166002 ] |
Mi, 16 November 2005 22:02 |
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"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:cu2dnXYReOag7ebenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> IMO. How many people could say they wouldn't just love holo-sex?
>
> <IMHO> Kirk wouldn't love it. He'd find the whole idea repugnant. His
> idea of making love is to be with a special, real person. His idea of
> what fun is includes things like playing chess with a real person (NOT the
> computer) and running around outside in the real outdoors, breathing real
> fresh air.
I'd agree completely if it weren't for the fact that Kirk came close to
messing
up his whole life for an android.
Other than that,.....................yep
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| Re: Trek and Sex [message #166085 ] |
Fr, 18 November 2005 15:01 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: Trek and Sex [message #166086 ] |
Fr, 18 November 2005 15:08 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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