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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed!
Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152189] So, 16 Oktober 2005 22:39
Christopher Kreuzer  
Continuing on from the recently concluded discussion about /The Lord of
the Rings/, the schedule for the Silmarillion Chapter-of-the-week
discussions has been uploaded to the parasha page at maoltuile.org (many
thanks to Een Wilde Ier and Belba Grubb for sorting the handover):

http://parasha.maoltuile.org/

What is needed _now_ is for people to volunteer to introduce the
imminent discussions of the chapters in /The Silmarillion/ by J.R.R.
Tolkien. Have a look at the previous discussions for /The Hobbit/ and
/The Lord of the Rings/ (linked from the above webpage) to see how
people have done this. The introduction can be as long or short as you
like, but it should include a short summary of what happens in the
chapter, and a few questions to start the discussion.

The only qualification is that you need to have read /The Silmarillion/,
and if you haven't, then be warned that there will be plenty of spoilers
in the discussions themselves! You should also have read the chapter in
question before posting the introduction to the discussion.

Please e-mail me at the address I am posting from (also given on the
webpage), if you want to volunteer to introduce a discussion, or have
any questions. You can also volunteer by posting a reply to this post
and saying what chapter you want to introduce.

And if there are any suggestions or corrections about the webpage, can
people please post a reply in these newsgroups, or e-mail me.

I hope I have managed to find all the offers that people made over the
past six months or so. Where people claimed a chapter, they have been
assigned, with the exception of one chapter where it was already claimed
and so that offer was put in the 'reserve volunteers' list. Also, in
most cases where people offered to do _more_ than one chapter, I've only
put them down for one for the moment. Please let me know if you want to
_change_ chapters, or particularly want to do more than one.
Non-consecutive chapters is probably better than consecutive chapters,
for example.

Finally, the 'reserve volunteers' list (which is reassuringly long) is
drawn from several sources... It consists of those who said they would
want to do a chapter but did not volunteer for a specific chapter, plus
those who showed general interest in the idea, plus people who were on
the reserve list for /The Lord of the Rings/! Please let me know if I've
put you on the list by mistake, or (better) if you want to be assigned
to a particular chapter, or if you want to be added to the list to do a
chapter at short notice.

It would be good if people on both the 'reserve volunteer' list and the
main discussion schedule could also e-mail or post to confirm that they
are around and aware of what is going on.

I'll do something for the 'Foreward' tomorrow to get the ball rolling,
and Troels is working on the 'Ainulindale' discussion at the moment. It
would be great if people could volunteer _soon_ for the next few
chapters, especially the 'Valaquenta' discussion, which is due to start
at the end of October.

Thanks.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard

[But hitting 'reply' works as well...]
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152193 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 00:00
Yuk Tang  
"Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
news:GTy4f.130438$G8.124726 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> Continuing on from the recently concluded discussion about /The
> Lord of the Rings/, the schedule for the Silmarillion
> Chapter-of-the-week discussions has been uploaded to the parasha
> page at maoltuile.org (many thanks to Een Wilde Ier and Belba
> Grubb for sorting the handover):
>
> http://parasha.maoltuile.org/

Bugger, Kohrs got to the Nirnaeth before me. Oh well, can I do Turin
instead?


> I hope I have managed to find all the offers that people made over
> the past six months or so. Where people claimed a chapter, they
> have been assigned, with the exception of one chapter where it was
> already claimed and so that offer was put in the 'reserve
> volunteers' list.

I wonder whom that refers to.


> Also, in most cases where people offered to do
> _more_ than one chapter, I've only put them down for one for the
> moment. Please let me know if you want to _change_ chapters, or
> particularly want to do more than one. Non-consecutive chapters is
> probably better than consecutive chapters, for example.
>
> Finally, the 'reserve volunteers' list (which is reassuringly
> long) is drawn from several sources... It consists of those who
> said they would want to do a chapter but did not volunteer for a
> specific chapter, plus those who showed general interest in the
> idea, plus people who were on the reserve list for /The Lord of
> the Rings/! Please let me know if I've put you on the list by
> mistake, or (better) if you want to be assigned to a particular
> chapter, or if you want to be added to the list to do a chapter at
> short notice.

I'll be willing to take up the later chapters (anything after the
return of te Noldor) at short notice, having more interest in the
Silm stories than in LotR.


> It would be good if people on both the 'reserve volunteer' list
> and the main discussion schedule could also e-mail or post to
> confirm that they are around and aware of what is going on.
>
> I'll do something for the 'Foreward' tomorrow to get the ball
> rolling, and Troels is working on the 'Ainulindale' discussion at
> the moment. It would be great if people could volunteer _soon_ for
> the next few chapters, especially the 'Valaquenta' discussion,
> which is due to start at the end of October.

I'll do Valaquenta if no-one else will.


--
Cheers, ymt.
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152196 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 00:50
Speaking Clock  
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> Continuing on from the recently concluded discussion about /The Lord
> of the Rings/, the schedule for the Silmarillion Chapter-of-the-week
> discussions has been uploaded to the parasha page at maoltuile.org
> (many thanks to Een Wilde Ier and Belba Grubb for sorting the
> handover):
>
> http://parasha.maoltuile.org/

Typo alert. "Foreward" should read "Foreword".
--
Speaking Clock
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152200 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 09:04
Christopher Kreuzer  
Speaking Clock <speaking_clock [at] despammed.com> wrote:
> Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>> Continuing on from the recently concluded discussion about /The Lord
>> of the Rings/, the schedule for the Silmarillion Chapter-of-the-week
>> discussions has been uploaded to the parasha page at maoltuile.org
>> (many thanks to Een Wilde Ier and Belba Grubb for sorting the
>> handover):
>>
>> http://parasha.maoltuile.org/
>
> Typo alert. "Foreward" should read "Foreword".

<groan>

Thanks.
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152201 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 09:37
Christopher Kreuzer  
Yuk Tang <jim.laker2 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

>> http://parasha.maoltuile.org/
>
> Bugger, Kohrs got to the Nirnaeth before me.

He did say he was prepared to do battle for it... :-)

> Oh well, can I do Turin instead?

You are now down for Turin.

<snip>

> I'll be willing to take up the later chapters (anything after the
> return of the Noldor) at short notice, having more interest in the
> Silm stories than in LotR.

Thanks. I'll make a note. In fact, anyone who is down for a chapter is
liable to be considered "emergency" material... Hopefully it won't come
to that, as there seems to be a fair amount of interest.

<snip>

> I'll do Valaquenta if no-one else will.

Thanks. I'll wait a bit (until the end of the week) to see if anyone
else wants it, otherwise I'll put you down for that.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152202 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 09:44
Troels Forchhammer  
In message <news:3rg3q0Fjjlu1U1 [at] individual.net> "Speaking Clock"
<speaking_clock [at] despammed.com> enriched us with:
>

<snip>

> Typo alert. "Foreward" should read "Foreword".

Thank you. I have seen this particular thing so often (including, I
think, using 'forward' in this capacity) that I have been getting
unsure as to whether it was getting to be correct English, or what ;-)

Foreword make sense (it's the same as 'prologue', from 'pro-logos', I
believe) and the Danish word is a third translation of this.

Incidentally, are 'foreword' and 'forward/foreward' actual homophones
(sounding exactly the same) or just very similar (I guess that might
depend on what dialect we're speaking about)?

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>

Men, said the Devil,
are good to their brothers:
they don't want to mend
their own ways, but each other's.
- Piet Hein, /Mankind/
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152203 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 11:38
Speaking Clock  
Troels Forchhammer wrote:

>> Typo alert. "Foreward" should read "Foreword".
>
> Thank you. I have seen this particular thing so often (including, I
> think, using 'forward' in this capacity) that I have been getting
> unsure as to whether it was getting to be correct English, or what ;-)

Language change in action before our very eyes!

> Foreword make sense (it's the same as 'prologue', from 'pro-logos', I
> believe) and the Danish word is a third translation of this.
>
> Incidentally, are 'foreword' and 'forward/foreward' actual homophones
> (sounding exactly the same) or just very similar (I guess that might
> depend on what dialect we're speaking about)?

No, they're not that similar in pronunciation. Roughly speaking, "forward"
= "forwd" with the stress very much on the first syllable; and "foreword" =
"forwerd" with equal stress on both. I don't think regional variations play
any part in this ... but no doubt someone out there can prove me wrong!
<misses the softrat>

And "foreward" isn't in my dictionary at all.
--
Speaking Clock
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152206 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 14:22
Chris Kern  
I'll take Chapter 2 (Aule and Yavanna).

-Chris
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152209 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 15:44
Derek Broughton  
Speaking Clock wrote:

> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>
>>> Typo alert. "Foreward" should read "Foreword".
>
>> Incidentally, are 'foreword' and 'forward/foreward' actual homophones
>> (sounding exactly the same) or just very similar (I guess that might
>> depend on what dialect we're speaking about)?
>
> No, they're not that similar in pronunciation. Roughly speaking,
> "forward" = "forwd" with the stress very much on the first syllable; and
> "foreword" =
> "forwerd" with equal stress on both. I don't think regional variations
> play any part in this ... but no doubt someone out there can prove me
> wrong! <misses the softrat>

While I'd really hesitate to say that any two English words of such
similarity are _never_ pronounced as homophones, somewhere, I can't think
of anywhere that these are.

> And "foreward" isn't in my dictionary at all.

I don't know if it ever existed in reality, though I've come across it in
fantasy literature in enough places to suggest it's a proper word. The
"foreward" would be the open area within the main gate of a keep - and,
like foreword, pronounced with equal stress on the syllables.
--
derek
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152214 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 17:33
Matthew T Curtis  
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:39:02 GMT, "Christopher Kreuzer"
<spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>Continuing on from the recently concluded discussion about /The Lord of
>the Rings/, the schedule for the Silmarillion Chapter-of-the-week
>discussions has been uploaded to the parasha page at maoltuile.org (many
>thanks to Een Wilde Ier and Belba Grubb for sorting the handover):
>
>http://parasha.maoltuile.org/
>
>What is needed _now_ is for people to volunteer to introduce the
>imminent discussions of the chapters in /The Silmarillion/ by J.R.R.
>Tolkien. Have a look at the previous discussions for /The Hobbit/ and
>/The Lord of the Rings/ (linked from the above webpage) to see how
>people have done this. The introduction can be as long or short as you
>like, but it should include a short summary of what happens in the
>chapter, and a few questions to start the discussion.
>
>The only qualification is that you need to have read /The Silmarillion/,
>and if you haven't, then be warned that there will be plenty of spoilers
>in the discussions themselves! You should also have read the chapter in
>question before posting the introduction to the discussion.
>
>Please e-mail me at the address I am posting from (also given on the
>webpage), if you want to volunteer to introduce a discussion, or have
>any questions. You can also volunteer by posting a reply to this post
>and saying what chapter you want to introduce.
>
>And if there are any suggestions or corrections about the webpage, can
>people please post a reply in these newsgroups, or e-mail me.
>
>I hope I have managed to find all the offers that people made over the
>past six months or so. Where people claimed a chapter, they have been
>assigned, with the exception of one chapter where it was already claimed
>and so that offer was put in the 'reserve volunteers' list. Also, in
>most cases where people offered to do _more_ than one chapter, I've only
>put them down for one for the moment. Please let me know if you want to
>_change_ chapters, or particularly want to do more than one.
>Non-consecutive chapters is probably better than consecutive chapters,
>for example.
>
>Finally, the 'reserve volunteers' list (which is reassuringly long) is
>drawn from several sources... It consists of those who said they would
>want to do a chapter but did not volunteer for a specific chapter, plus
>those who showed general interest in the idea, plus people who were on
>the reserve list for /The Lord of the Rings/! Please let me know if I've
>put you on the list by mistake, or (better) if you want to be assigned
>to a particular chapter, or if you want to be added to the list to do a
>chapter at short notice.
>
>It would be good if people on both the 'reserve volunteer' list and the
>main discussion schedule could also e-mail or post to confirm that they
>are around and aware of what is going on.
>
>I'll do something for the 'Foreward' tomorrow to get the ball rolling,
>and Troels is working on the 'Ainulindale' discussion at the moment. It
>would be great if people could volunteer _soon_ for the next few
>chapters, especially the 'Valaquenta' discussion, which is due to start
>at the end of October.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Christopher

Can I volunteer for two, if it's not too greedy?

_Valaquenta_ (Oct 31) and _Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin_ (May 22).
If either of those two are taken, I could do the tables/index/map (Jul
10).

--
Matthew T Curtis mtcurtis[at]dsl.pipex.com
HIV+ for 25 glorious years!
What Mrs Whitlow had sewn together out of her dress was a lot more
substantial than a bikini. It was more a *newzealand* - two quite
large respectable halves separated by a narrow channel.
- Terry Pratchett
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152215 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 17:40
Yuk Tang  
Derek Broughton <news [at] pointerstop.ca> wrote in
news:bemc23-tj8.ln1 [at] news.pointerstop.ca:
> Speaking Clock wrote:
>> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>>
>>>> Typo alert. "Foreward" should read "Foreword".
>>
>>> Incidentally, are 'foreword' and 'forward/foreward' actual
>>> homophones (sounding exactly the same) or just very similar (I
>>> guess that might depend on what dialect we're speaking about)?
>>
>> No, they're not that similar in pronunciation. Roughly speaking,
>> "forward" = "forwd" with the stress very much on the first
>> syllable; and "foreword" =
>> "forwerd" with equal stress on both. I don't think regional
>> variations play any part in this ... but no doubt someone out
>> there can prove me wrong! <misses the softrat>
>
> While I'd really hesitate to say that any two English words of
> such similarity are _never_ pronounced as homophones, somewhere, I
> can't think of anywhere that these are.

Dubya could probably pronounce 'forward', 'foreward', 'ford' and
'furred' as homophones.

A Steve Bell cartoon from W's first tour of Europe has a chimp
emerging from a plane, asking "Is this Yurp?". More recent ones have
the same character promising "Freeman moxy".


--
Cheers, ymt.
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152216 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 17:53
Stan Brown  
Dateline 17 Oct 2005 07:44:03 GMT from Troels Forchhammer
<Troels [at] ThisIsFake.invalid>:
> In message <news:3rg3q0Fjjlu1U1 [at] individual.net> "Speaking Clock"
> <speaking_clock [at] despammed.com> enriched us with:
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> > Typo alert. "Foreward" should read "Foreword".
>
> Thank you. I have seen this particular thing so often (including, I
> think, using 'forward' in this capacity) that I have been getting
> unsure as to whether it was getting to be correct English, or what ;-)

English has trouble with for- and fore- compounds. Many, many people
don't know the difference between "forego" and "forgo", and in fact
the AHD4 now lists "forego" as a variant of "forgo". The tendency to
mix them must be resisted, or nobody will be able to say anything
clearly.

("forgo" means to do without; the "for" comes from the same negative
root as "forbid", to bit NOT to do something; "forego" means to go
before.)

> Incidentally, are 'foreword' and 'forward/foreward' actual homophones
> (sounding exactly the same) or just very similar (I guess that might
> depend on what dialect we're speaking about)?

They're homophones in my dialect. :-)

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html
FAQ of the Rings: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152217 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 17:57
Stan Brown  
Dateline Mon, 17 Oct 2005 1:38:47 +0100 from Speaking Clock
<speaking_clock [at] despammed.com>:
> And "foreward" isn't in my dictionary at all.

I would have thought it a legitimate word, meaning "in the direction
of the fore"(*), but Google found no definition for it.

(*) The "fore" is the bow or front end of a ship, but
<http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=fore> gives only
"forward" for movement in that direction.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html
FAQ of the Rings: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152222 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 19:06
Graham Lockwood  
On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:44:11 -0500, Derek Broughton wrote
(in article <bemc23-tj8.ln1 [at] news.pointerstop.ca>):

> Speaking Clock wrote:
>
>> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>>
>>>> Typo alert. "Foreward" should read "Foreword".
>>
>>> Incidentally, are 'foreword' and 'forward/foreward' actual homophones
>>> (sounding exactly the same) or just very similar (I guess that might
>>> depend on what dialect we're speaking about)?
>>
>> No, they're not that similar in pronunciation. Roughly speaking,
>> "forward" = "forwd" with the stress very much on the first syllable; and
>> "foreword" =
>> "forwerd" with equal stress on both. I don't think regional variations
>> play any part in this ... but no doubt someone out there can prove me
>> wrong! <misses the softrat>
>
> While I'd really hesitate to say that any two English words of such
> similarity are _never_ pronounced as homophones, somewhere, I can't think
> of anywhere that these are.

I and everyone I can ever recall hearing say them has pronounced "forward"
and "foreword" identically to my ear. ;)

Also, dictionary.com gives identical pronunciation guides for them although
"foreword" could be pronounced with a different kind of vowel in the first
syllable.

>> And "foreward" isn't in my dictionary at all.
>
> I don't know if it ever existed in reality, though I've come across it in
> fantasy literature in enough places to suggest it's a proper word. The
> "foreward" would be the open area within the main gate of a keep - and,
> like foreword, pronounced with equal stress on the syllables.

According to dictionary.com, it's obsolete and means "The van; the front."
Shakespeare apparently used it (where, it doesn't say) in "My foreward shall
be drawn out all in length, Consisting equally of horse and foot." I suspect
it's mainly just an obsolete spelling of "forward".



---
Graham
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152224 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 19:09
Henriette  
Speaking Clock schreef:

>
> And "foreward" isn't in my dictionary at all.
> --
In none of mine either - not even the 1895-one!

Henriette
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152230 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 20:24
Taemon  
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

> Thanks. I'll make a note. In fact, anyone who is down for a chapter
> is
> liable to be considered "emergency" material... Hopefully it won't
> come to that, as there seems to be a fair amount of interest.

I am still on the reserve list, and I'd be willing to do one. But as
you say, there is probably no need for my unknowledgeable self to fill
in.

T.
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152235 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 21:07
Troels Forchhammer  
In message <news:MPG.1dbd9309ff4a6ac7989a08 [at] news.individual.net>
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown [at] fastmail.fm> enriched us with:
>
> Dateline 17 Oct 2005 07:44:03 GMT from Troels Forchhammer
> <Troels [at] ThisIsFake.invalid>:
>>

['Foreword' and 'forward' and 'foreward']

To you, and to everybody else who have responded, thanks.
I've been wondering about this for some time (I had the audacity to
point it out to a poster in another group at one point, and received
a rather rude reply), and was happy for the chance to bring it up,
and for the willingness of the replies.

> English has trouble with for- and fore- compounds. Many, many
> people don't know the difference between "forego" and "forgo", and
> in fact the AHD4 now lists "forego" as a variant of "forgo". The
> tendency to mix them must be resisted, or nobody will be able to
> say anything clearly.

Interestingly Cambridge lists no difference in the the pronunciation
of the first syllable in either version:

Forward:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?dict=CALD&key =97491&ph=on
Foreword
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?dict=CALD&key =30529&ph=on

> ("forgo" means to do without; the "for" comes from the same
> negative root as "forbid", to bit NOT to do something; "forego"
> means to go before.)

That is very similar to Danish 'forgå' and 'foregå', although the
former, 'forgå' means to cease to exist (in which case people will
have to do without it). 'Foregå' is usually used in connection of
being a good example.

>> Incidentally, are 'foreword' and 'forward/foreward' actual
>> homophones (sounding exactly the same) or just very similar (I
>> guess that might depend on what dialect we're speaking about)?
>
> They're homophones in my dialect. :-)

Funny how this differs from place to place, eh ;-)

I wonder if people in whose dialect the words are homophones are more
liable to make the mistake of mixing the two.

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>

Giving in is no defeat.
Passing on is no retreat.
Selves are made to rise above.
You shall live in what you love.
- Piet Hein, /The Me Above the Me/
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152239 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 21:53
Christopher Kreuzer  
Speaking Clock <speaking_clock [at] despammed.com> wrote:
> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>
>>> Typo alert. "Foreward" should read "Foreword".

Trust a simple typo to lead to this sort of thread! :-)

>> Thank you. I have seen this particular thing so often (including, I
>> think, using 'forward' in this capacity) that I have been getting
>> unsure as to whether it was getting to be correct English, or what
>> ;-)
>
> Language change in action before our very eyes!
>
>> Foreword make sense (it's the same as 'prologue', from 'pro-logos', I
>> believe) and the Danish word is a third translation of this.

Yes. It would make sense that it is FORE-WORD, a word that comes before
the main story, where FORE is used to mean "before". But then I
remembered that 'be-' as a prefix has extensive archiac (and not so
archaic) uses. So I got to wondering if it is possible to decompose
before into BE-FORE. And whether before consists of two prefixes glued
together?

Other Be-words are:

Begat
Bewail
Bedevil
Beyond
Befriend

To name just a few of countless examples.
Though 'beyond' and 'before' might be the odd ones out.
And add: behind and between to those two 'locational' words.
And make up "befront" for the fun of it.
And betwixt is also a locational word, I believe.
Synonymous with between.

>> Incidentally, are 'foreword' and 'forward/foreward' actual homophones
>> (sounding exactly the same) or just very similar (I guess that might
>> depend on what dialect we're speaking about)?
>
> No, they're not that similar in pronunciation. Roughly speaking,
> "forward" = "forwd" with the stress very much on the first syllable;
> and "foreword" = "forwerd" with equal stress on both. I don't think
> regional variations play any part in this ... but no doubt someone
> out there can prove me wrong! <misses the softrat>

This got me wondering whether softrat did say anything about 'foreword'
and would you believe it...

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=foreword+author:softrat&am p;start=0&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&num=100&fil ter=0

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&a mp;num=100&q=foreward+author%3Asoftrat&safe=off

Note the variant spellings of Foreword, Foreward and Forwurd...

Also:

http://tolkien.slimy.com/etext/EtextChps.html
http://tolkien.slimy.com/etext/LotRF1.txt

Either I'm in good spelling company, or I'm missing a joke somewhere.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152241 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 22:10
Christopher Kreuzer  
Taemon <Taemon [at] zonnet.nl> wrote:

> I am still on the reserve list, and I'd be willing to do one. But as
> you say, there is probably no need for my unknowledgeable self to fill
> in.

I never said that! You've just gone straight to the front of the
'reserve volunteers' queue... :-)

[Well, mentally at the front anyway, as the list is alphabetical]
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152247 ] Mo, 17 Oktober 2005 23:45
Christopher Kreuzer  
Christopher Kreuzer <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> http://parasha.maoltuile.org/
>
> What is needed _now_ is for people to volunteer [...]

After the latest round of sparring (three people wanted Valaquenta), the
page has been updated, and is assigned for the next five weeks through
to chapter 2 of Quenta Silmarillion (14th November). There are also 15
reserve volunteers for the 18 remaining chapters...

Now I just have to remember to spell 'Foreword' correctly...

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152255 ] Di, 18 Oktober 2005 01:08
Troels Forchhammer  
In message <news:CiT4f.131031$G8.33588 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
"Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> enriched us with:
>
> Speaking Clock <speaking_clock [at] despammed.com> wrote:
>>

<snip>

Fore-word/ward/wurd/and why not wed? ;-)

>> I don't think regional variations play any part in this ... but
>> no doubt someone out there can prove me wrong! <misses the
>> softrat>

Sigh, indeed!

> This got me wondering whether softrat did say anything about
> 'foreword' and would you believe it...

You bet I would ;-)

[...]
> Note the variant spellings of Foreword, Foreward and Forwurd...
[...]
> http://tolkien.slimy.com/etext/LotRF1.txt
>
> Either I'm in good spelling company, or I'm missing a joke
> somewhere.

Regarding this particular example, I think it's the joke -- one that
would, I believe, be in the spirit of the LotR E-Text ...

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>

Love while you've got
love to give.
Live while you've got
life to live.
- Piet Hein, /Memento Vivere/
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152257 ] Di, 18 Oktober 2005 01:31
Stan Brown  
Dateline 17 Oct 2005 19:07:36 GMT from Troels Forchhammer
<Troels [at] ThisIsFake.invalid>:
> Troels Forchhammer
> Valid e-mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>

Not.

I tried to e-mail you, changing the (a) to [at] , and it bounced with
"user not local".

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html
FAQ of the Rings: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152259 ] Di, 18 Oktober 2005 04:11
jwkenne  
Yuk Tang wrote:
> Derek Broughton <news [at] pointerstop.ca> wrote in
> news:bemc23-tj8.ln1 [at] news.pointerstop.ca:
>
>>Speaking Clock wrote:
>>
>>>Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Typo alert. "Foreward" should read "Foreword".
>>>
>>>>Incidentally, are 'foreword' and 'forward/foreward' actual
>>>>homophones (sounding exactly the same) or just very similar (I
>>>>guess that might depend on what dialect we're speaking about)?
>>>
>>>No, they're not that similar in pronunciation. Roughly speaking,
>>>"forward" = "forwd" with the stress very much on the first
>>>syllable; and "foreword" =
>>>"forwerd" with equal stress on both. I don't think regional
>>>variations play any part in this ... but no doubt someone out
>>>there can prove me wrong! <misses the softrat>
>>
>>While I'd really hesitate to say that any two English words of
>>such similarity are _never_ pronounced as homophones, somewhere, I
>>can't think of anywhere that these are.
>
>
> Dubya could probably pronounce 'forward', 'foreward', 'ford' and
> 'furred' as homophones.

You forgot "froward".

--
John W. Kennedy
"...if you had to fall in love with someone who was evil, I can see why
it was her."
-- "Alias"
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152276 ] Di, 18 Oktober 2005 09:44
Christopher Kreuzer  
"Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown [at] fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Dateline 17 Oct 2005 19:07:36 GMT from Troels Forchhammer
> <Troels [at] ThisIsFake.invalid>:
> > Troels Forchhammer
> > Valid e-mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>
>
> Not.
>
> I tried to e-mail you, changing the (a) to [at] , and it bounced with
> "user not local".

That's funny. I tried the same thing recently and it didn't bounce.
No reply yet though... :-)
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152281 ] Di, 18 Oktober 2005 10:42
Taemon  
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

> Taemon <Taemon [at] zonnet.nl> wrote:
>> I am still on the reserve list, and I'd be willing to do one. But
>> as
>> you say, there is probably no need for my unknowledgeable self to
>> fill in.
> I never said that! You've just gone straight to the front of the
> 'reserve volunteers' queue... :-)

I didn't mean it that way, easy :-) It's a fact I'm not so much the
student here, and I don't mind. It's just that if you really can't
find anyone to do a chapter I'm happy to step in.

T.
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152289 ] Di, 18 Oktober 2005 15:41
Larry Swain  
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> Christopher Kreuzer <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>http://parasha.maoltuile.org/
>>
>>What is needed _now_ is for people to volunteer [...]
>
>
> After the latest round of sparring (three people wanted Valaquenta), the
> page has been updated, and is assigned for the next five weeks through
> to chapter 2 of Quenta Silmarillion (14th November). There are also 15
> reserve volunteers for the 18 remaining chapters...
>
> Now I just have to remember to spell 'Foreword' correctly...
>
> Christopher
>
Put me down for the reserve list too, Christopher.
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152294 ] Di, 18 Oktober 2005 16:52
Troels Forchhammer  
In message <news:jt-dnaR3QLobZsneRVn-tw [at] rcn.net>
Larry Swain <theswain [at] operamail.com> enriched us with:
>
> Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>>
>> Christopher Kreuzer <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> http://parasha.maoltuile.org/
>>>
>> There are also 15 reserve volunteers for the 18
>> remaining chapters...

I'll hurry to grab 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age' while it
is still available ;-)

> Put me down for the reserve list too, Christopher.

Now we just need the reserves to pick a chapter each and then we'll be
nearly there ;-)

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>

Philosophers
must ultimately find
their true perfection

in knowing all
the follies of mankind
- by introspection.
- Piet Hein, /The Ultimate Wisdom/
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152370 ] Mi, 19 Oktober 2005 16:44
danhenry  
On Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:39:02 GMT, "Christopher Kreuzer"
<spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>Continuing on from the recently concluded discussion about /The Lord of
>the Rings/, the schedule for the Silmarillion Chapter-of-the-week
>discussions has been uploaded to the parasha page at maoltuile.org (many
>thanks to Een Wilde Ier and Belba Grubb for sorting the handover):
>
>http://parasha.maoltuile.org/
>
>What is needed _now_ is for people to volunteer to introduce the
>imminent discussions of the chapters in /The Silmarillion/ by J.R.R.
>Tolkien.

Timing looks good for me to do:
Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor
or
Of the Darkening of Valinor

I'll take either one. Depending on how many volunteers we get, I could
maybe do one in the Spring as well, but it looks like those chapters are
filling up faster than the near ones.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry [at] inreach.com
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152396 ] Mi, 19 Oktober 2005 22:47
Larry Swain  
Troels Forchhammer wrote:
> In message <news:jt-dnaR3QLobZsneRVn-tw [at] rcn.net>
> Larry Swain <theswain [at] operamail.com> enriched us with:
>
>>Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>>
>>>Christopher Kreuzer <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://parasha.maoltuile.org/
>>>>
>>>
>>>There are also 15 reserve volunteers for the 18
>>>remaining chapters...
>
>
> I'll hurry to grab 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age' while it
> is still available ;-)
>
>
>>Put me down for the reserve list too, Christopher.
>
>
> Now we just need the reserves to pick a chapter each and then we'll be
> nearly there ;-)
>
Hey Troels, I've grabbed two already and felt like I should let others
have a go before I grab more!
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152397 ] Mi, 19 Oktober 2005 23:16
Christopher Kreuzer  
Larry Swain <theswain [at] operamail.com> wrote:
> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>> In message <news:jt-dnaR3QLobZsneRVn-tw [at] rcn.net>
>> Larry Swain <theswain [at] operamail.com> enriched us with:

<snip>

>>> Put me down for the reserve list too, Christopher.
>>
>> Now we just need the reserves to pick a chapter each and then we'll
>> be nearly there ;-)
>>
> Hey Troels, I've grabbed two already and felt like I should let others
> have a go before I grab more!

I had my eye on some of those chapters, but they have been going fast.
Only 14 chapters left of the 24 Quenta Silmarillion chapters.

I'm going to write to those who expressed interest a while ago (those on
the volunteers list) and see if they are still interested or not.
Possibly some people don't feel they can commit this far in advance.

As there seems to be a lot of interest, I think an informal limit of two
chapters for any one person is a good idea - more variety and all that.
[Hmm, having said that, I'm now wondering if the 'Foreword' counts!]
After all, the people assigned chapters are only introducing the
discussions. After that, it is free for anyone and everyone to say what
they want.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152399 ] Mi, 19 Oktober 2005 23:34
mhaines  
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>
> I'm going to write to those who expressed interest a while ago (those on
> the volunteers list) and see if they are still interested or not.
> Possibly some people don't feel they can commit this far in advance.

I have to find my copy of the book before committing. ;)

Michelle
Flutist
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152400 ] Mi, 19 Oktober 2005 23:40
Christopher Kreuzer  
Michelle J. Haines <mhaines [at] nanc.com> wrote:
> Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>>
>> I'm going to write to those who expressed interest a while ago
>> (those on the volunteers list) and see if they are still interested
>> or not. Possibly some people don't feel they can commit this far in
>> advance.
>
> I have to find my copy of the book before committing. ;)

Would you like a photocopy of chapter 4?
Less than two pages. Probably qualifies as 'fair use'... :-)

[Yes, this _is_ a joke!]
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152428 ] Do, 20 Oktober 2005 06:52
Odysseus  
Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>
> In message <news:3rg3q0Fjjlu1U1 [at] individual.net> "Speaking Clock"
> <speaking_clock [at] despammed.com> enriched us with:
>
> <snip>
>
> > Typo alert. "Foreward" should read "Foreword".
>
> Thank you. I have seen this particular thing so often (including, I
> think, using 'forward' in this capacity) that I have been getting
> unsure as to whether it was getting to be correct English, or what ;-)

There are several pairs of English words in for- and fore- that often
get confused in writing, even by native speakers. Forgo/forego and
forbear/forebear are probably the next most common stumbling-blocks
after forward/foreword. In speech they're usually distinguishable by
how they're stressed.

> Foreword make sense (it's the same as 'prologue', from 'pro-logos', I
> believe) and the Danish word is a third translation of this.

Cf. "afterword" & "epilogue". The etymological meanings are the same
in both pairs, but their usage is somewhat different: the Saxon
-words are usually extraneous or (quasi-)editorial, while the Greek
-logues are parts of the story.

--
Odysseus
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152431 ] Do, 20 Oktober 2005 07:39
Odysseus  
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>
> Continuing on from the recently concluded discussion about /The Lord of
> the Rings/, the schedule for the Silmarillion Chapter-of-the-week
> discussions has been uploaded to the parasha page at maoltuile.org (many
> thanks to Een Wilde Ier and Belba Grubb for sorting the handover):
>
> http://parasha.maoltuile.org/

Seconded!

> What is needed _now_ is for people to volunteer to introduce the
> imminent discussions of the chapters in /The Silmarillion/ by J.R.R.
> Tolkien. Have a look at the previous discussions for /The Hobbit/ and
> /The Lord of the Rings/ (linked from the above webpage) to see how
> people have done this. The introduction can be as long or short as you
> like, but it should include a short summary of what happens in the
> chapter, and a few questions to start the discussion.

I'll take "Of the Sun & Moon and the Hiding of Valinor" if it hasn't
been spoken for yet. Not very imminent, I realize ...

--
Odysseus
Re: Silmarillion Chapter of the Week page uploaded - volunteers needed! [message #152458 ] Do, 20 Oktober 2005 16:44
Larry Swain  
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> Larry Swain <theswain [at] operamail.com> wrote:
>
>>Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>>
>>>In message <news:jt-dnaR3QLobZsneRVn-tw [at] rcn.net>
>>>Larry Swain <theswain [at] operamail.com> enriched us with:
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>>>Put me down for the reserve list too, Christopher.
>>>
>>>Now we just need the reserves to pick a chapter each and then we'll
>>>be nearly there ;-)
>>>
>>
>>Hey Troels, I've grabbed two already and felt like I should let others
>>have a go before I grab more!
>
>
> I had my eye on some of those chapters, but they have been going fast.
> Only 14 chapters left of the 24 Quenta Silmarillion chapters.
>
> I'm going to write to those who expressed interest a while ago (those on
> the volunteers list) and see if they are still interested or not.
> Possibly some people don't feel they can commit this far in advance.
>
> As there seems to be a lot of interest, I think an informal limit of two
> chapters for any one person is a good idea - more variety and all that.
> [Hmm, having said that, I'm now wondering if the 'Foreword' counts!]
> After all, the people assigned chapters are only introducing the
> discussions. After that, it is free for anyone and everyone to say what
> they want.
>
> Christopher
>
My vote is that the Foreword, which I'm glad we've included, doesn't
count for your informal two. Besides, as the chap who got things going,
and is maintaining the page and all that, I think you ought to be able
to do three if you like.
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