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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now)
Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134860] Fr, 16 September 2005 07:39
Sean  
The elves had a mystique about boats. One Elven tribe built beautiful,
graceful boats like Viking ships and sailed them to Valinor, but they
loved their boats so much, or so I've heard, that some of them stayed
on board, even on the Blessed Shore. Then Feanor and his lot came
along and hijacked the boats to get back to Middle Earth.

Some time after that, Galadriel sang this sad lament:

O Lorien! Too long I have dwelt upon this Hither Shore
And in a fading crown have twined the golden elanor.
But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me back across so wide a Sea?

The boats are symbolic. The whole thing is a powerful metaphor for
something or other, despite JRRT's statement that he cordially
disliked allegory.

The English are a seafaring nation, and they also have a mystique
about boats. Tolkien write in English, and the English language
is full of maritime expressions:

* "Down the hatch" (encouraging children to eat)
* "Don't rock the boat" (ie, don't make trouble)
* "We're all in the same boat" (in the same situation)
* To "barge in" on someone is to make an intrusive entrance
* When "the coast is clear" it's safe to make our move
* "Three sheets to the wind" (ie, drunk)
* The battle of Stalingrad was "the turning of the tide" in WW2
* "Shipshape and Bristol fashion" (ie, spiffy)
* Disproving someone's idea is "taking the wind out of their sails"
* There are plenty more, but by now I'm sure you "get my drift".

If Tolkien had been a Saudi and had written LOTR in Arabic,
then Frodo would have left on a camel.

Sean
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134878 ] Fr, 16 September 2005 19:08
Ikema  
"Sean" <no.spam [at] no.spam> wrote in message news:432A5F11.36F9E503 [at] no.spam...
>
> If Tolkien had been a Saudi and had written LOTR in Arabic,
> then Frodo would have left on a camel.
>
> Sean

Or on a 'magic' carpet
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134883 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 05:42
OMeallyMD  
Sean wrote:
> The elves had a mystique about boats. One Elven tribe built beautiful,
> graceful boats like Viking ships and sailed them to Valinor, but they
> loved their boats so much, or so I've heard, that some of them stayed
> on board, even on the Blessed Shore. Then Feanor and his lot came
> along and hijacked the boats to get back to Middle Earth.

Where has Tolkien compared the Telerian ships to Viking ships? When you
say "or so I've heard" are you implying that you haven't read _The
Silmarillion_?


<snip>

> The boats are symbolic. The whole thing is a powerful metaphor for
> something or other, despite JRRT's statement that he cordially
> disliked allegory.

What is the powerful metaphor to which you refer? "Something or other"
is pretty vague. I'm not saying that they aren't, but could you
elaborate? Metaphor is totally different than allegory.


> If Tolkien had been a Saudi and had written LOTR in Arabic,
> then Frodo would have left on a camel.

I find little logic in your statement, and frankly, it is a bit racist.
The Arabs have a rich maritime tradition. They developed the fore/aft
sail. We don't see Sinbad sailing the seven seas on a camel, do we?

Perhaps if Tolkien were Chinese, you would have him sending Frodo off to
Elvenhome on a rickshaw.
--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134886 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 11:09
onq  
Sean wrote:

[mucking about in boats]

Sean, I think you're a bit "lost at sea" yourself.

M.
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134890 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 14:18
Sean  
Bill O'Meally wrote:

> Sean wrote:
> > The elves had a mystique about boats. One Elven tribe built beautiful,
> > graceful boats like Viking ships
>
> Where has Tolkien compared the Telerian ships to Viking ships?

I'm not sure if he did, directly at least, but *I* did, and so did
some ME artists:

http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pictures/fantasy/Tolkien/lee46.jpg
http://www.jayweidner.com/images/leeElvesBoat.jpg
http://anke.edoras-art.de/images/tolkien/lotr4/funeral_boat_ th.jpg
http://members.fortunecity.com/gabriella66/lordofrings/webgr aphics/sail.gif
http://www.shelltown.net/~dangweth/earend.html
http://www.shelltown.net/~dangweth/earend.jpg


A lot of Middle Earth (including the name itself, Midgard) seems
to be drawn from Norse mythology...

http://www.amscan.org/tolkien.html

....even the dragon heads on some viking prows are the same
north European dragons as Tolkien's, so it's more natural to think
of them as Viking ships than, say, as Polynesian outrigger canoes.

http://college.hmco.com/history/west/mosaic/chapter5/images/ viking_ship.jpg


> > If Tolkien had been a Saudi and had written LOTR in Arabic,
> > then Frodo would have left on a camel.
>
> I find little logic in your statement, and frankly, it is a bit racist.
> The Arabs have a rich maritime tradition. They developed the fore/aft
> sail. We don't see Sinbad sailing the seven seas on a camel, do we?

These are indeed touchy times, if one can't mention certain nations
and cultures without being accused of racism. However it's true
that I had forgotten the Arab dhow...

http://www.ms-starship.com/journal/oct00/images/dhow-md34P54 107.jpg

....but I associat that style of ship with the Corsairs
and the Southrons, not the elves.

Sean
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134892 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 15:07
Robert Kolker  
Bill O'Meally wrote:

>
>
> I find little logic in your statement, and frankly, it is a bit racist.
> The Arabs have a rich maritime tradition. They developed the fore/aft
> sail. We don't see Sinbad sailing the seven seas on a camel, do we?

The Arabs used lateen rigged sails. They could tack fairly close to the
wind. Square rigged ships could barely tack and had to run on the reach.
That is why Columbus sailed to the "New World" at one lattitude and came
back at another. He could not tack his ships very well.

Elvenships were the last word. They could tack directly into the wind.
The swans pulling the ships didn't mind a bit.

Bob Kolker
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134893 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 16:32
Flame of the West  
Sean wrote:

> If Tolkien had been a Saudi and had written LOTR in Arabic,
> then Frodo would have left on a camel.

Actually he probably wouldn't have left
at all. But if Tolkien had been a
Californian, Frodo would have left in a
Chevy or something.


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134894 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 16:35
Flame of the West  
Bill O'Meally wrote:

> I find little logic in your statement, and frankly,
> it is a bit racist.

I wish people wouldn't throw around words like
"racist" so cavalierly. What will you do when
a real racist comes aboard, having so devalued
the word? The Arabs are not a "race".


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134895 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 16:41
Glenn Holliday  
Sean wrote:
>
> The boats are symbolic. The whole thing is a powerful metaphor for
> something or other, despite JRRT's statement that he cordially
> disliked allegory.
>
> The English are a seafaring nation, and they also have a mystique
> about boats. Tolkien write in English, and the English language
> is full of maritime expressions:

Not just boats, but the sea. I think the sea is the more important
symbol in both British and Tolkien's mythologies, and the boats
come later.

In Welsh mythology, the islands of the western sea are where
heroes find the castles of the gods. The western sea is the
traditional direction for souls to journey to the afterlife.

I see in Valinor, and its associated isles, a direct reflection
of this. For Elves going to Valinor, and for Frodo going to the West,
is not exactly dying. But it's a related spiritual journey.

--
Glenn Holliday holliday [at] acm.org
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134899 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 17:40
jwkenne  
Flame of the West wrote:
> Bill O'Meally wrote:
>
>> I find little logic in your statement, and frankly,
>> it is a bit racist.
>
>
> I wish people wouldn't throw around words like
> "racist" so cavalierly. What will you do when
> a real racist comes aboard, having so devalued
> the word? The Arabs are not a "race".

Actually, depending on how narrowly one wishes to define "race", they are.

But what the original post said was "Saudi", and I don't offhand recall
the actual inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula doing much in a maritime
way.

--
John W. Kennedy
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have
always objected to being governed at all."
-- G. K. Chesterton. "The Man Who Was Thursday"
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134901 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 19:04
OMeallyMD  
Flame of the West wrote:
> Bill O'Meally wrote:
>
>> I find little logic in your statement, and frankly,
>> it is a bit racist.
>
> I wish people wouldn't throw around words like
> "racist" so cavalierly. What will you do when
> a real racist comes aboard, having so devalued
> the word? The Arabs are not a "race".

You're right. Perhaps "stereotypical" would have been a better choice.
Either way, the sentiment is the same. I would suspect someone who would
make such statements about a group of people based on nationality or
culture, would do the same based on race.

--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134902 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 19:07
OMeallyMD  
Sean wrote:
> Bill O'Meally wrote:
>
>> Sean wrote:
>>> The elves had a mystique about boats. One Elven tribe built
>>> beautiful, graceful boats like Viking ships
>>
>> Where has Tolkien compared the Telerian ships to Viking ships?
>
> I'm not sure if he did, directly at least, but *I* did, and so did
> some ME artists:

<snip>

Then you ought to clarify that you are not talking about Tolkien, but
rather your own or others' interpretation of Tolkien.
--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134903 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 19:10
OMeallyMD  
Flame of the West wrote:
> Sean wrote:
>
>> If Tolkien had been a Saudi and had written LOTR in Arabic,
>> then Frodo would have left on a camel.
>
> Actually he probably wouldn't have left
> at all. But if Tolkien had been a
> Californian, Frodo would have left in a
> Chevy or something.

.... or perhaps on a skateboard or rollerblades.
--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134910 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 22:09
the softrat  
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:35:45 -0400, Flame of the West
<FotW [at] NOSPAMsolinas.org> wrote:

>Bill O'Meally wrote:
>
>> I find little logic in your statement, and frankly,
>> it is a bit racist.
>
>I wish people wouldn't throw around words like
>"racist" so cavalierly. What will you do when
>a real racist comes aboard, having so devalued
>the word? The Arabs are not a "race".
>
>
>-- FotW
>
How about 'Sardines'?

....uh...'Sardinians'?

the softrat
Unless Barad-dur is rebuilt, twice as evil as before, Frodo has triumphed!
mailto:softrat [at] pobox.com
--
Discordianism: Where reality is a figment of your imagination
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134911 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 22:11
the softrat  
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:32:20 -0400, Flame of the West
<FotW [at] NOSPAMsolinas.org> wrote:

>Sean wrote:
>
>> If Tolkien had been a Saudi and had written LOTR in Arabic,
>> then Frodo would have left on a camel.
>
>Actually he probably wouldn't have left
>at all. But if Tolkien had been a
>Californian, Frodo would have left in a
>Chevy or something.
>
>
>-- FotW
>
>Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.

A Ford!

Fix-Or-Repair-Daily is big in Kalyforniya.

the softrat
Unless Barad-dur is rebuilt, twice as evil as before, Frodo has triumphed!
mailto:softrat [at] pobox.com
--
Discordianism: Where reality is a figment of your imagination
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134914 ] Sa, 17 September 2005 23:53
OMeallyMD  
the softrat wrote:
> A Ford!
>
> Fix-Or-Repair-Daily is big in Kalyforniya.

I thought it was Found-On-Road-Dead.
--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134918 ] So, 18 September 2005 03:19
Flame of the West  
the softrat wrote:

> How about 'Sardines'?
>
> ...uh...'Sardinians'?

It is no dishonor to be associated with Sardines.
They're yummy.


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134929 ] So, 18 September 2005 22:05
the softrat  
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:19:51 -0400, Flame of the West
<FotW [at] NOSPAMsolinas.org> wrote:

>the softrat wrote:
>
>> How about 'Sardines'?
>>
>> ...uh...'Sardinians'?
>
>It is no dishonor to be associated with Sardines.
>They're yummy.
>
"Sardines" are the "People of the Sea".

the softrat
Unless Barad-dur is rebuilt, twice as evil as before, Frodo has triumphed!
mailto:softrat [at] pobox.com
--
Some people have one of those days. I have one of those lives.
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134933 ] So, 18 September 2005 23:20
Speaking Clock  
Sean wrote:

> The English are a seafaring nation, and they also have a mystique
> about boats. Tolkien write in English, and the English language
> is full of maritime expressions:
>
> * "Down the hatch" (encouraging children to eat)
> * "Don't rock the boat" (ie, don't make trouble)
> * "We're all in the same boat" (in the same situation)
> * To "barge in" on someone is to make an intrusive entrance
> * When "the coast is clear" it's safe to make our move
> * "Three sheets to the wind" (ie, drunk)
> * The battle of Stalingrad was "the turning of the tide" in WW2
> * "Shipshape and Bristol fashion" (ie, spiffy)
> * Disproving someone's idea is "taking the wind out of their sails"
> * There are plenty more, but by now I'm sure you "get my drift".

"The sun is over the yardarm" (my favourite!) - time for a drink before
dinner.
--
Speaking Clock
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134954 ] Mo, 19 September 2005 11:41
Tux Wonder-Dog  
John W. Kennedy wrote:

> Flame of the West wrote:
>> Bill O'Meally wrote:
>>
<snip>
> But what the original post said was "Saudi", and I don't offhand recall
> the actual inhabitants of the Arabian peninsula doing much in a maritime
> way.
>
If we are going to nit-pick, "Saudi" is the nationality of a citizen of the
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, established in the 1920s care of the British
Empire. Al Saud was the clan name of a branch of the Hashemite clan,
descendants of Mohammed. The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan is another
kingdom with the same royalty. (Iraq once used to have the same set of
royals, and they had a try at taking Syria as well, but the Fourth Republic
of France kicked him out, will the people, nill the people.)

Saudis didn't have anything to do with the establishment of the Kilafah (The
Caliphate/s) for obvious reasons. Nor did they have anything to do with
the spread of Islam to anywhere else. For obvious reasons.

As far as the inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsular doing much in a maritime
manner, some of the earliest Muslims went into exile from Makkah (Mecca)
across the Red Sea to the Kingdom of Abyssinia. And the various Persian
Gulf Emirates have long been known for pearl-diving, and suchlike.

Stereotypes are a trap for young players in the big city.

Wesley Parish
--
"Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I was
lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  I
get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she
fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid.
Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134958 ] So, 18 September 2005 16:46
Derek Broughton  
Flame of the West wrote:

> Bill O'Meally wrote:
>
>> I find little logic in your statement, and frankly,
>> it is a bit racist.
>
> I wish people wouldn't throw around words like
> "racist" so cavalierly. What will you do when
> a real racist comes aboard, having so devalued
> the word? The Arabs are not a "race".

Not to mention that there is nothing racist in suggesting that a book
written from a Saudi (he never said Arab; Saudis are even less a race)
viewpoint would likely have Frodo leave on a camel. Middle-Eastern
literature of many kinds has a long history of people travelling by camel
train.
--
derek
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134961 ] Mo, 19 September 2005 15:53
ojevind.lang  
Bill O'Meally wrote:

>Perhaps if Tolkien were Chinese, you would have him sending Frodo off to
Elvenhome on a rickshaw.=20

Drawn by Sam, no doubt.

=D6jevind
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134962 ] Mo, 19 September 2005 16:22
nopspam  
"Öjevind Lång" <ojevind.lang [at] bredband.net> wrote in
news:1127138019.167006.243660 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> Bill O'Meally wrote:
>
>>Perhaps if Tolkien were Chinese, you would have him sending Frodo off to
> Elvenhome on a rickshaw.
>
> Drawn by Sam, no doubt.

If Tolkien were a hippie, he would have Frodo sail off on a cloud of smoke:

"My dear lad Frodo," Gandalf said. "Try this, it will send you straight to
Valinor. It is what Saruman always sought for but never found; the top
quality stuff from the Southfarthing."

--
Mästerkatten
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #134964 ] Mo, 19 September 2005 17:10
Stan Brown  
On 19 Sep 2005 06:53:39 -0700 in rec.arts.books.tolkien, Öjevind
Lång favored us with...
> Bill O'Meally wrote:
>
> >Perhaps if Tolkien were Chinese, you would have him sending Frodo off to
> Elvenhome on a rickshaw.
>
> Drawn by Sam, no doubt.

Or by Pauline Baynes. :-)


(Just trying to lighten up this discussion. People seem to be
taking it entirely too seriously, hurling accusations of racism and
what not over off-hand comments.)

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html
FAQ of the Rings: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #136507 ] Mo, 19 September 2005 19:02
Troels Forchhammer  
In message <news:MPG.1d98a0f9eda845b99897f3 [at] news.individual.net>
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown [at] fastmail.fm> enriched us with:
>
> On 19 Sep 2005 06:53:39 -0700 in rec.arts.books.tolkien, Öjevind
> Lång favored us with...
>>
>> Bill O'Meally wrote:
>>>
>>> Perhaps if Tolkien were Chinese, you would have him sending
>>> Frodo off to Elvenhome on a rickshaw.
>>
>> Drawn by Sam, no doubt.
>
> Or by Pauline Baynes. :-)

Ugh! ;-)

How(e) so?

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>

A good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read.
- (Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!)
I think he left in a boot (was Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now)) [message #136529 ] Di, 20 September 2005 01:44
donnellaf  
I maintain that a scribal error in the textual history of the LOTR is
responsible for the now-accepted notion that Frodo left as a hero in a
boat. In reality he left as a rascal in a boot, as in, "they gave him
the boot."

Consider: the letter "o" usually looks a lot like the letter "a,"
except that the latter letter has a little line. Sloppy scribal
scrawling may, therefore, have led to the substitution of "a" for "o,"
giving "boat" from "boot." Thereafter, all MSS in that particular
family retained that rendering.

As the only extant manuscripts are those unearthed by Tolkien (which
have not been dated with any certainty, but are almost certainly late
and unreliable), it is impossible to say for sure either how early this
variant entered into the mythos or how profound it was in shaping our
view of the events. It seems likely, however, that this error gave
rise to (or grew out of) a rather dramatic reinterpretation of the
character of Frodo Baggins. Let us look first at what it must have
meant to the original authors.

Frodo was given the boot. He was kicked out of the Shire. It may have
been simply because he was a freeloader and the Shire had fallen upon
hard times (drought, pestilence, invasion; c.f. "Sharkey"). This
interpretation ignores some very pervasive and troubling evidence.
While later redactors spun Frodo in a very positive light, they
retained language replete with such constructions as _master_ Frodo.
And do we ever hear tell of Frodo or Bilbo working to maintain their
opulent lifestyle? No. Where does all the wealth come from then? It
comes from the masses. Careful reading of the text, stripping away the
embellishments, reveals a Frodo who was a cruel and oppressive
aristocrat in the time of a rebellion led by one Samwise Gamgee. Note
how meticulously the later authors remove any sign of animosity between
the two and, indeed, make Frodo and Sam the best of friends! By
showing Frodo in a better light, even, than the true hero Sam, the
reader is manipulated to see this tyrant as a kind benefactor, one
respected and loved by Samwise. The public now sees Frodo as the
savior of the Shire, the one who put out Sharkey. The hard truth,
however, is that Frodo *was* Sharkey.

So what happened to Frodo after Sam exiled him from the Shire? No tale
now tells. Once the "boat" variant was introduced, it opened the
realms of possibility, and enabled a latter author to insert this happy
tale of Saint Frodo sailing off into heaven.

This is but one of the many tales which need to be stripped away in the
quest for the historical Frodo.


Farewell,
Andy
Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now) [message #136573 ] Mi, 21 September 2005 03:49
OMeallyMD  
Stan Brown wrote:

> (Just trying to lighten up this discussion. People seem to be
> taking it entirely too seriously, hurling accusations of racism and
> what not over off-hand comments.)

Really. I mean, it's not like he was posting from *Google* or something!

--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
Re: I think he left in a boot (was Re: Why Frodo left in a boat (seriously now)) [message #136581 ] Mi, 21 September 2005 12:27
Tux Wonder-Dog  
Andrew F. Donnell wrote:

> I maintain that a scribal error in the textual history of the LOTR is
> responsible for the now-accepted notion that Frodo left as a hero in a
> boat. In reality he left as a rascal in a boot, as in, "they gave him
> the boot."
>
> Consider: the letter "o" usually looks a lot like the letter "a,"
> except that the latter letter has a little line. Sloppy scribal
> scrawling may, therefore, have led to the substitution of "a" for "o,"
> giving "boat" from "boot." Thereafter, all MSS in that particular
> family retained that rendering.
>
> As the only extant manuscripts are those unearthed by Tolkien (which
> have not been dated with any certainty, but are almost certainly late
> and unreliable), it is impossible to say for sure either how early this
> variant entered into the mythos or how profound it was in shaping our
> view of the events. It seems likely, however, that this error gave
> rise to (or grew out of) a rather dramatic reinterpretation of the
> character of Frodo Baggins. Let us look first at what it must have
> meant to the original authors.
>
> Frodo was given the boot. He was kicked out of the Shire. It may have
> been simply because he was a freeloader and the Shire had fallen upon
> hard times (drought, pestilence, invasion; c.f. "Sharkey"). This
> interpretation ignores some very pervasive and troubling evidence.
> While later redactors spun Frodo in a very positive light, they
> retained language replete with such constructions as _master_ Frodo.
> And do we ever hear tell of Frodo or Bilbo working to maintain their
> opulent lifestyle? No. Where does all the wealth come from then? It
> comes from the masses. Careful reading of the text, stripping away the
> embellishments, reveals a Frodo who was a cruel and oppressive
> aristocrat in the time of a rebellion led by one Samwise Gamgee. Note
> how meticulously the later authors remove any sign of animosity between
> the two and, indeed, make Frodo and Sam the best of friends! By
> showing Frodo in a better light, even, than the true hero Sam, the
> reader is manipulated to see this tyrant as a kind benefactor, one
> respected and loved by Samwise. The public now sees Frodo as the
> savior of the Shire, the one who put out Sharkey. The hard truth,
> however, is that Frodo *was* Sharkey.
>
> So what happened to Frodo after Sam exiled him from the Shire? No tale
> now tells. Once the "boat" variant was introduced, it opened the
> realms of possibility, and enabled a latter author to insert this happy
> tale of Saint Frodo sailing off into heaven.
>
> This is but one of the many tales which need to be stripped away in the
> quest for the historical Frodo.
>
>
> Farewell,
> Andy
Right on!

Speaking facetiously, I like it!

Wesley Parish
--
"Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I was
lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  I
get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she
fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid.
Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!
Vorheriges Thema:Why did Frodo leave in a boat?
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