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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » "Accio Sirius Black!"
"Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130545] So, 11 September 2005 05:12
Tim Bruening  
When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry wizards
get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius Black!"

Spoilers for book 5:

1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

And when Sirius Black is falling towards that Death Arch, why doesn't
Harry Potter yell "Accio Sirius Black!"
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130551 ] So, 11 September 2005 05:43
Fish Eye no Miko  
Tim Bruening wrote:

> When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry
> wizards get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius
> Black!"

Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?

Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
Right now you are reading my .sig quote.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130552 ] So, 11 September 2005 06:40
Impmon  
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:12:26 -0700, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:

>When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry wizards
>get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius Black!"

Probably because it'd be too late to pull Sirius back out. Once
anyone goes through the viel, there's no way back out.

>Spoilers for book 5:
>
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>
>And when Sirius Black is falling towards that Death Arch, why doesn't
>Harry Potter yell "Accio Sirius Black!"

Would you be able to call someone back in the heat of the moment? I
don't think anyone thought to try accio spell when Sirius was falling.
--
When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130563 ] So, 11 September 2005 10:00
Paul Lints  
Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
> Tim Bruening wrote:
>
>
>>When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry
>>wizards get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius
>>Black!"
>
>
> Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?
>

ISTR it working on animals during a lesson, although I can't remember
which one. I think when they were learning /Silencio/. As for people,
it's not something we've seen.


--
Paul W. Lints Jr. UIN: 25030144
Valid email: pwlints [at] *DELETEME*csupomona.edu
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130586 ] So, 11 September 2005 16:05
Toon  
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:43:18 -0700, "Fish Eye no Miko"
<fisheye [at] deadmoon.circus> wrote:

>Tim Bruening wrote:
>
>> When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry
>> wizards get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius
>> Black!"
>
>Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?
>
>Catherine Johnson.

And everybody's always had an idea where the target was.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130611 ] So, 11 September 2005 20:53
mugglzrule  
Everything was happening so fast. The scene describes all these colored
rays flying through the air in that room, all the curses. And it was so
totally unexpected. I don't think anyone could have done it in time, even
if he had been thinking that keenly on his feet. It was just tragic.


"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:4323A09A.8ECD7E60 [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
> When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry wizards
> get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius Black!"
>
> Spoilers for book 5:
>
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
>
> And when Sirius Black is falling towards that Death Arch, why doesn't
> Harry Potter yell "Accio Sirius Black!"
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130643 ] So, 11 September 2005 23:56
gjw  
On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:12:26 -0700, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:

>When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry wizards
>get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius Black!"
>
>Spoilers for book 5:
>
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>1
>
>And when Sirius Black is falling towards that Death Arch, why doesn't
>Harry Potter yell "Accio Sirius Black!"

Harry has no real idea at the time that the Veil is deadly. At the
time, Harry is probably more concerned about the spell which has just
hit Sirius (and might have been fatal in its own right) than about the
Veil.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130654 ] Mo, 12 September 2005 01:17
Ard Rhi  
"Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:4323A09A.8ECD7E60 [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
> When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry wizards
> get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius Black!"

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.harry-potter/browse_f rm/thread/adc62a35fb6221c0/6d569276c2d931c1?lnk=st&q=acc io+black&rnum=20#6d569276c2d931c1
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130684 ] Mo, 12 September 2005 05:43
Nick Cassaro  
Tim Bruening wrote:

> When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry wizards
> get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius Black!"
>

LOL! Maybe he could counter the spell? A broomstick cannot resist
magic, but maybe Accio is too weak for a human, no matter how many
people are doing it at once?
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130713 ] Mo, 12 September 2005 08:04
Paul Lints  
Toon wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:43:18 -0700, "Fish Eye no Miko"
> <fisheye [at] deadmoon.circus> wrote:
>
>
>>Tim Bruening wrote:
>>
>>
>>>When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry
>>>wizards get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius
>>>Black!"
>>
>>Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?
>>
>>Catherine Johnson.
>
>
> And everybody's always had an idea where the target was.

Yet the argument against /Accio Scuba Gear/ wasn't that the spell
couldn't be performed due to not knowing where the nearest Muggle shop
selling them was, it was that they couldn't alarm Muggles. I think that
pretty much confirms you don't need to know where the target is to
/Accio/ it.

--
Paul W. Lints Jr. UIN: 25030144
Valid email: pwlints [at] *DELETEME*csupomona.edu
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130808 ] Mo, 12 September 2005 19:13
Blon Fel Fotch Passam  
Catherine Johnson wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:

>> When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry
>> wizards get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius
>> Black!"

We've only seen the charm working where the object's location was known.


> Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?

These are the Accioed objects and living things (*) so far...

the ends of cords
Ton-Tongue Toffees
board dusters
wastepaper baskets
some Lunascopes
books and quills
* a stupid fly
several chairs
a set of Gobstones
* Trevor the toad
a rune dictionary
Harry's Firebolt
the Marauder's Map
the Triwizard Cup
* a gloomy bullfrog
Neville's wand
six Butterbeers
rolls of parchment
the twins' brooms
prophesy (failed)
Harry's wand
* an animated brain
a Horcrux (failed)
Rosmerta's brooms


Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

--
Yay! We've got the Ashes back!
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130915 ] Di, 13 September 2005 07:07
Tim Bruening  
Fish Eye no Miko wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> > When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry
> > wizards get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius
> > Black!"
>
> Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?

I think I have read about it being used on toads and frogs.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130947 ] Di, 13 September 2005 11:12
dsueme  
Tim Bruening wrote:
> Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>
> > Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?
>
> I think I have read about it being used on toads and frogs.

You may go PETA on me and disagree - but generally it is considered
that there is a difference between the "lower" animals and the
"primates". Toads, Frogs, fish, and so on are generally considered
just slightly smarter than trees and flowers. So they don't have much
power to resist - whereas Harry is depicted as developing a conscious
will to resist certain spells.

Dave
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #130975 ] Di, 13 September 2005 14:00
SaireyGamp  
Perhaps they've read The Monkey's Paw.

Sairey
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #131018 ] Di, 13 September 2005 18:55
Blon Fel Fotch Passam  
David Sueme wrote:

> You may go PETA on me and disagree - but generally it is considered
> that there is a difference between the "lower" animals and the
> "primates". Toads, Frogs, fish, and so on are generally considered
> just slightly smarter than trees and flowers. So they don't have much
> power to resist - whereas Harry is depicted as developing a conscious
> will to resist certain spells.

Did you not see the full list I posted? It includes a giant brain.


Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

--
Free Margaret Blaine now!
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #131304 ] Do, 15 September 2005 11:39
dsueme  
Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:

> Did you not see the full list I posted? It includes a giant brain.

The only giant brain I am interested in is my...

But of course you expected me to say this!

Dave
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #131307 ] Do, 15 September 2005 11:44
dsueme  
Sairey wrote:
> Perhaps they've read The Monkey's Paw.

OK, me no read this one. Gimme a synopsis? I'll give anything a
hearing if I seems to make sense.

Dave
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #131405 ] Fr, 16 September 2005 02:36
gjw  
On 15 Sep 2005 02:44:37 -0700, "David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net>
wrote:

>
>Sairey wrote:
>> Perhaps they've read The Monkey's Paw.
>
>OK, me no read this one. Gimme a synopsis? I'll give anything a
>hearing if I seems to make sense.


If it's the story I'm thinking about... Someone gets a magical object
that can grant wishes. They wish that a loved one who had died would
be alive again. The person does come back to life, but as an animated,
decaying corpse, not a normal person, so they must use the final wish
to wish their loved one back in the grave.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #131424 ] Fr, 16 September 2005 05:56
Tim Bruening  
David Sueme wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
> > Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
> >
> > > Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?
> >
> > I think I have read about it being used on toads and frogs.
>
> You may go PETA on me and disagree - but generally it is considered
> that there is a difference between the "lower" animals and the
> "primates". Toads, Frogs, fish, and so on are generally considered
> just slightly smarter than trees and flowers. So they don't have much
> power to resist - whereas Harry is depicted as developing a conscious
> will to resist certain spells.

How does one measure the IQs of trees and flowers?
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #131448 ] Fr, 16 September 2005 11:09
Helena Bowles  
"gjw" <gjw [at] example.net> wrote in message
news:7o4ki1le045ida8tfjukv57viic51b9ae1 [at] 4ax.com...
> On 15 Sep 2005 02:44:37 -0700, "David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Sairey wrote:
> >> Perhaps they've read The Monkey's Paw.
> >
> >OK, me no read this one. Gimme a synopsis? I'll give anything a
> >hearing if I seems to make sense.
>
>
> If it's the story I'm thinking about... Someone gets a magical object
> that can grant wishes. They wish that a loved one who had died would
> be alive again. The person does come back to life, but as an animated,
> decaying corpse, not a normal person, so they must use the final wish
> to wish their loved one back in the grave.

An elderly couple whose son is away fighting in a war receive a visitor
who knows their son - a fellow soldier. He tells them of the Monkey's Paw
and comments that he wishes he had never heard of it despite its ability to
grant wishes. He leaves it with them when he departs. The father wishes for
riches and they are visited by army officers who tell them their son is dead
and bring a large compensation payment. Later grief-ridden the Mother wishes
their son was with them- to father's dismay as she hasn't phrased this very
clearly... A scratching occurrs at the door. It continues while the old
couple clutch each other in fear. The Father attempts to restrain Mother
from opening the door. Finally she breaks free and throws the door open just
as Dad seizes the Monkey's Paw and cries: "I wish my son were back in the
grave". There is nothing outside the door but leaves blowing in the wind...

It's nicely retold by LadyJaida and Darkorific in their (long but)
exceedingly good Marauder's era fanfic called "Shoebox Project" (on
Livejournal). They have the four Marauders repair to the Shrieking shack on
Halloween to tell ghost stories. James tells the story as "The Clabbert's
Paw", Lupin reads the Poe classic "The Telltale Heart" while Peter and
Sirius tell stories I know but don't know the original titles of: Peter "The
Shrake's Liver" and Sirius a story I know as "Drip, drip" or "Humans can
lick, too". Anyone with the slightest interest in fanfic should read this
magnum opus. It has some of the best writing and characterisation of ANY
fanfic I've ever read. Actually that may not say much. I'll go further.
Within the picaresque fanfic structure the narrative and characterisation
are as good as ( and better than many) professionally published novels.
There is a slow move towards a slash relationship between Lupin and Sirius
but it's pretty much ignorable most of the time if that's not your bag. I've
even given the scene where the three Animagi Marauders make the first steps
towards transformation (getting their animals minds) to my two children.
They thought it was hilarious and spent the next three hours pretending to
be Sirius with a dog mind...
HELENA
>
>
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #131454 ] Fr, 16 September 2005 14:14
Toon  
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:36:32 GMT, gjw <gjw [at] example.net> wrote:

>On 15 Sep 2005 02:44:37 -0700, "David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Sairey wrote:
>>> Perhaps they've read The Monkey's Paw.
>>
>>OK, me no read this one. Gimme a synopsis? I'll give anything a
>>hearing if I seems to make sense.
>
>
>If it's the story I'm thinking about... Someone gets a magical object
>that can grant wishes. They wish that a loved one who had died would
>be alive again. The person does come back to life, but as an animated,
>decaying corpse, not a normal person, so they must use the final wish
>to wish their loved one back in the grave.
>

Technically, they don't know he's a decaying corpse, but based on
every wish having a very bad catch, they figured that was it. Plus
he's practically bashing his way through the door kinda indicates a
less than polite attitude.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #131879 ] Mo, 19 September 2005 06:44
Igenlode Wordsmith  
On 16 Sep 2005 Helena Bowles wrote:

[snip "Monkey's Paw"]

> It's nicely retold by LadyJaida and Darkorific in their (long but)
> exceedingly good Marauder's era fanfic called "Shoebox Project" (on
> Livejournal). They have the four Marauders repair to the Shrieking shack on
> Halloween to tell ghost stories. James tells the story as "The Clabbert's
> Paw", Lupin reads the Poe classic "The Telltale Heart" while Peter and
> Sirius tell stories I know but don't know the original titles of: Peter "The
> Shrake's Liver" and Sirius a story I know as "Drip, drip" or "Humans can
> lick, too". Anyone with the slightest interest in fanfic should read this
> magnum opus.

URL? :-)
--
Igenlode Wordsmith Pirates of the Caribbean fanfiction:
- http://ivory.150m.com/Tower/Fiction/FineWoman.html
- http://ivory.150m.com/Tower/Fiction/ForMe.html
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #136226 ] Mi, 21 September 2005 21:14
Helena Bowles  
"Igenlode" <Use-Author-Address-Header [at] [127.1]> wrote in message
news:20050919073044.12564.qmail [at] riot.eu.org...
> On 16 Sep 2005 Helena Bowles wrote:
>
> [snip "Monkey's Paw"]
>
> > It's nicely retold by LadyJaida and Darkorific in their (long but)
> > exceedingly good Marauder's era fanfic called "Shoebox Project" (on
> > Livejournal). They have the four Marauders repair to the Shrieking shack
on
> > Halloween to tell ghost stories. James tells the story as "The
Clabbert's
> > Paw", Lupin reads the Poe classic "The Telltale Heart" while Peter and
> > Sirius tell stories I know but don't know the original titles of: Peter
"The
> > Shrake's Liver" and Sirius a story I know as "Drip, drip" or "Humans can
> > lick, too". Anyone with the slightest interest in fanfic should read
this
> > magnum opus.
>
> URL? :-)

Sorry, that was lazy of me.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/shoebox_project/

It's a great story, if you like fanfic. I came across it when I was
intending to go to Accio as someone presented a paper on characterisations
of certain characters within Fanfiction as it was used, along with some
others, as an illustration.
HELENA
> --
> Igenlode Wordsmith Pirates of the Caribbean fanfiction:
> - http://ivory.150m.com/Tower/Fiction/FineWoman.html
> - http://ivory.150m.com/Tower/Fiction/ForMe.html
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #148347 ] Di, 11 Oktober 2005 01:22
Tim Bruening  
Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:

> Catherine Johnson wrote:
>
> > Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> >> When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry
> >> wizards get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius
> >> Black!"
>
> We've only seen the charm working where the object's location was known.
>
> > Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?
>
> These are the Accioed objects and living things (*) so far...
>
> the ends of cords
> Ton-Tongue Toffees
> board dusters
> wastepaper baskets
> some Lunascopes
> books and quills
> * a stupid fly
> several chairs
> a set of Gobstones
> * Trevor the toad
> a rune dictionary
> Harry's Firebolt
> the Marauder's Map
> the Triwizard Cup
> * a gloomy bullfrog
> Neville's wand
> six Butterbeers
> rolls of parchment
> the twins' brooms
> prophesy (failed)
> Harry's wand
> * an animated brain
> a Horcrux (failed)
> Rosmerta's brooms

Why doesn't Harry try Accioing Severas Snape as he is chasing him after
Snape killed Dumbledore?
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #148362 ] Di, 11 Oktober 2005 02:41
Vickie  
> From: Tim Bruening <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>
> Newsgroups: alt.fan.harry-potter,mn.humor
> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:22:41 -0700
> Subject: Re: "Accio Sirius Black!"
>
>
>
> Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
>
>> Catherine Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>>
>>>> When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry
>>>> wizards get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius
>>>> Black!"
>>
>> We've only seen the charm working where the object's location was known.
>>
>>> Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?
>>
>> These are the Accioed objects and living things (*) so far...
>>
>> the ends of cords
>> Ton-Tongue Toffees
>> board dusters
>> wastepaper baskets
>> some Lunascopes
>> books and quills
>> * a stupid fly
>> several chairs
>> a set of Gobstones
>> * Trevor the toad
>> a rune dictionary
>> Harry's Firebolt
>> the Marauder's Map
>> the Triwizard Cup
>> * a gloomy bullfrog
>> Neville's wand
>> six Butterbeers
>> rolls of parchment
>> the twins' brooms
>> prophesy (failed)
>> Harry's wand
>> * an animated brain
>> a Horcrux (failed)
>> Rosmerta's brooms
>
> Why doesn't Harry try Accioing Severas Snape as he is chasing him after
> Snape killed Dumbledore?


He doesn't want to touch him? ;)
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #148393 ] Di, 11 Oktober 2005 09:34
Toon  
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:41:39 GMT, Vickie <vick3ie [at] stny.rr.com> wrote:

>
>
>> From: Tim Bruening <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>
>> Newsgroups: alt.fan.harry-potter,mn.humor
>> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:22:41 -0700
>> Subject: Re: "Accio Sirius Black!"
>>
>>
>>
>> Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
>>
>>> Catherine Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>>>
>>>>> When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry
>>>>> wizards get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius
>>>>> Black!"
>>>
>>> We've only seen the charm working where the object's location was known.
>>>
>>>> Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?
>>>
>>> These are the Accioed objects and living things (*) so far...
>>>
>>> the ends of cords
>>> Ton-Tongue Toffees
>>> board dusters
>>> wastepaper baskets
>>> some Lunascopes
>>> books and quills
>>> * a stupid fly
>>> several chairs
>>> a set of Gobstones
>>> * Trevor the toad
>>> a rune dictionary
>>> Harry's Firebolt
>>> the Marauder's Map
>>> the Triwizard Cup
>>> * a gloomy bullfrog
>>> Neville's wand
>>> six Butterbeers
>>> rolls of parchment
>>> the twins' brooms
>>> prophesy (failed)
>>> Harry's wand
>>> * an animated brain
>>> a Horcrux (failed)
>>> Rosmerta's brooms
>>
>> Why doesn't Harry try Accioing Severas Snape as he is chasing him after
>> Snape killed Dumbledore?
>
>
>He doesn't want to touch him? ;)

Yeah, the quick summoning will splatter hair grease everywhere.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #148395 ] Di, 11 Oktober 2005 09:39
Tim Bruening  
Vickie wrote:

> > From: Tim Bruening <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>
> > Newsgroups: alt.fan.harry-potter,mn.humor
> > Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:22:41 -0700
> > Subject: Re: "Accio Sirius Black!"
> >
> >
> >
> > Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
> >
> >> Catherine Johnson wrote:
> >>
> >>> Tim Bruening wrote:
> >>
> >>>> When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry
> >>>> wizards get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius
> >>>> Black!"
> >>
> >> We've only seen the charm working where the object's location was known.
> >>
> >>> Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?
> >>
> >> These are the Accioed objects and living things (*) so far...
> >>
> >> the ends of cords
> >> Ton-Tongue Toffees
> >> board dusters
> >> wastepaper baskets
> >> some Lunascopes
> >> books and quills
> >> * a stupid fly
> >> several chairs
> >> a set of Gobstones
> >> * Trevor the toad
> >> a rune dictionary
> >> Harry's Firebolt
> >> the Marauder's Map
> >> the Triwizard Cup
> >> * a gloomy bullfrog
> >> Neville's wand
> >> six Butterbeers
> >> rolls of parchment
> >> the twins' brooms
> >> prophesy (failed)
> >> Harry's wand
> >> * an animated brain
> >> a Horcrux (failed)
> >> Rosmerta's brooms
> >
> > Why doesn't Harry try Accioing Severas Snape as he is chasing him after
> > Snape killed Dumbledore?
>
> He doesn't want to touch him? ;)

But it would keep him from escaping.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #148397 ] Di, 11 Oktober 2005 10:06
Tim Bruening  
Toon wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:41:39 GMT, Vickie <vick3ie [at] stny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >> From: Tim Bruening <tsbrueni [at] pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>
> >> Newsgroups: alt.fan.harry-potter,mn.humor
> >> Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:22:41 -0700
> >> Subject: Re: "Accio Sirius Black!"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:
> >>
> >>> Catherine Johnson wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Tim Bruening wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> When Sirius Black goes missing, why don't a bunch of Ministry
> >>>>> wizards get together, pull out their wands, and yell "Accio Sirius
> >>>>> Black!"
> >>>
> >>> We've only seen the charm working where the object's location was known.
> >>>
> >>>> Do we know if Accio works on living things, and people in particular?
> >>>
> >>> These are the Accioed objects and living things (*) so far...
> >>>
> >>> the ends of cords
> >>> Ton-Tongue Toffees
> >>> board dusters
> >>> wastepaper baskets
> >>> some Lunascopes
> >>> books and quills
> >>> * a stupid fly
> >>> several chairs
> >>> a set of Gobstones
> >>> * Trevor the toad
> >>> a rune dictionary
> >>> Harry's Firebolt
> >>> the Marauder's Map
> >>> the Triwizard Cup
> >>> * a gloomy bullfrog
> >>> Neville's wand
> >>> six Butterbeers
> >>> rolls of parchment
> >>> the twins' brooms
> >>> prophesy (failed)
> >>> Harry's wand
> >>> * an animated brain
> >>> a Horcrux (failed)
> >>> Rosmerta's brooms
> >>
> >> Why doesn't Harry try Accioing Severas Snape as he is chasing him after
> >> Snape killed Dumbledore?
> >
> >
> >He doesn't want to touch him? ;)
>
> Yeah, the quick summoning will splatter hair grease everywhere.

I suggest Accioing a sharp knife, then Accioing Snape right ONTO the knife!
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #148598 ] Mi, 12 Oktober 2005 07:56
dsueme  
Tim Bruening wrote:

> I suggest Accioing a sharp knife, then Accioing Snape right ONTO the knife!

But there is a second level of logic, Tim, that makes this a problem.
Curses in the Potterverse are dichotomized into ordinary and
"unforgivable" curses. You are proposing to commit great bodily harm
(or worse) with the "accio" curse. This would seem to promote it into
the arena with "advra kadrava", an unforgivable curse. "Accio", unlike
"advra kadrava", is routinely taught to school age innocents. It
cannot, then, be and "evil" incantation. "Accio" cannot be used to
kill or maim because it is not a proscribed magic.

Dave
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #148666 ] Mi, 12 Oktober 2005 20:34
Troels Forchhammer  
In message
<news:1129096577.326819.216500 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
"David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net> enriched us with:
>

<snip>

> But there is a second level of logic, Tim, that makes this a
> problem. Curses in the Potterverse are dichotomized into ordinary
> and "unforgivable" curses. You are proposing to commit great
> bodily harm (or worse) with the "accio" curse. This would seem to
> promote it into the arena with "advra kadrava", an unforgivable
> curse. "Accio", unlike "advra kadrava", is routinely taught to
> school age innocents. It cannot, then, be and "evil" incantation.
> "Accio" cannot be used to kill or maim because it is not a
> proscribed magic.

I must be ailing in some respect -- I not only understood the above,
but I smiled in general agreement ... ;-)

The 'dichotomisation' (is that a word?) in Potterverse does, in a
number of ways, stand in the way of the internal logic of the story,
and while I fully appreciate the need to simplify the model that is
presented in a children's book (otherwise it wouldn't be possible to
tackle some of the fundamental questions at all), the simplification
must be an aid for the story, rather than a hindrance -- a stepping-
stone rather than the stone that trips the story up.

I'm not entirely sure that this particular problem really exists in
Potterverse, but we could certainly find problems of this type.

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>

Taking fun
as simply fun
and earnestness
in earnest
shows how thouroughly
thou none
of the two
discernest.
- Piet Hein, /The Eternal Twins/
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #148758 ] Do, 13 Oktober 2005 09:11
Tim Bruening  
David Sueme wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> > I suggest Accioing a sharp knife, then Accioing Snape right ONTO the knife!
>
> But there is a second level of logic, Tim, that makes this a problem.
> Curses in the Potterverse are dichotomized into ordinary and
> "unforgivable" curses. You are proposing to commit great bodily harm
> (or worse) with the "accio" curse. This would seem to promote it into
> the arena with "advra kadrava", an unforgivable curse. "Accio", unlike
> "advra kadrava", is routinely taught to school age innocents. It
> cannot, then, be and "evil" incantation. "Accio" cannot be used to
> kill or maim because it is not a proscribed magic.

What's to keep someone (such as Lord Voldemort) from adapting "Accio" for lethal
purposes?
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #148863 ] Do, 13 Oktober 2005 21:37
Blon Fel Fotch Passam  
Troels Forchhammer wrote:

> David Sueme wrote:

>> Curses in the Potterverse are dichotomized into ordinary and
>> "unforgivable" curses. You are proposing to commit great bodily harm
>> (or worse) with the "accio" curse. This would seem to promote it into
>> the arena with "advra kadrava", an unforgivable curse. "Accio", unlike
>> "advra kadrava", is routinely taught to school age innocents. It
>> cannot, then, be and "evil" incantation. "Accio" cannot be used to kill
>> or maim because it is not a proscribed magic.

What a load of rubbish!


> The 'dichotomisation' (is that a word?) in Potterverse does, in a
> number of ways, stand in the way of the internal logic of the story,
> and while I fully appreciate the need to simplify the model that is
> presented in a children's book (otherwise it wouldn't be possible to
> tackle some of the fundamental questions at all), the simplification
> must be an aid for the story, rather than a hindrance -- a stepping-
> stone rather than the stone that trips the story up.

> I'm not entirely sure that this particular problem really exists in
> Potterverse, but we could certainly find problems of this type.

Well, 'dichotomisation' ~is~ a word, but I think it's silly to suppose
that if school-age innocents are taught a spell, then it can't be used
for harm. For example, you could accio a knife and then stab someone.


Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

--
Free Margaret Blaine now!
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #148949 ] Fr, 14 Oktober 2005 04:34
gjw  
On 12 Oct 2005 18:34:31 GMT, Troels Forchhammer
<Troels [at] ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:

>In message
><news:1129096577.326819.216500 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
>"David Sueme" <dsueme [at] comcast.net> enriched us with:
>>
>
><snip>
>
>> But there is a second level of logic, Tim, that makes this a
>> problem. Curses in the Potterverse are dichotomized into ordinary
>> and "unforgivable" curses. You are proposing to commit great
>> bodily harm (or worse) with the "accio" curse. This would seem to
>> promote it into the arena with "advra kadrava", an unforgivable
>> curse. "Accio", unlike "advra kadrava", is routinely taught to
>> school age innocents. It cannot, then, be and "evil" incantation.
>> "Accio" cannot be used to kill or maim because it is not a
>> proscribed magic.
>
>I must be ailing in some respect -- I not only understood the above,
>but I smiled in general agreement ... ;-)

My take is that a normal spell could be used to kill someone, in the
same way that a common household item (such as a hammer or a carving
knife) can be used to kill, even though it wasn't designed to do that.

Unforgivable curses, as I understand them, are designed solely for an
evil purpose. A real world example: unlike a hammer or knife, for
instance, machine guns were created only to kill people - they have no
other real purpose. Hence they're illegal, while hammers and carving
knives are not.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #149022 ] Fr, 14 Oktober 2005 13:17
Tim Bruening  
Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen wrote:

> Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>
> > David Sueme wrote:
>
> >> Curses in the Potterverse are dichotomized into ordinary and
> >> "unforgivable" curses. You are proposing to commit great bodily harm
> >> (or worse) with the "accio" curse. This would seem to promote it into
> >> the arena with "advra kadrava", an unforgivable curse. "Accio", unlike
> >> "advra kadrava", is routinely taught to school age innocents. It
> >> cannot, then, be and "evil" incantation. "Accio" cannot be used to kill
> >> or maim because it is not a proscribed magic.
>
> What a load of rubbish!
>
> > The 'dichotomisation' (is that a word?) in Potterverse does, in a
> > number of ways, stand in the way of the internal logic of the story,
> > and while I fully appreciate the need to simplify the model that is
> > presented in a children's book (otherwise it wouldn't be possible to
> > tackle some of the fundamental questions at all), the simplification
> > must be an aid for the story, rather than a hindrance -- a stepping-
> > stone rather than the stone that trips the story up.
>
> > I'm not entirely sure that this particular problem really exists in
> > Potterverse, but we could certainly find problems of this type.
>
> Well, 'dichotomisation' ~is~ a word, but I think it's silly to suppose
> that if school-age innocents are taught a spell, then it can't be used
> for harm. For example, you could accio a knife and then stab someone.

I would accio a gun and then shoot.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #150819 ] Fr, 14 Oktober 2005 18:21
Troels Forchhammer  
In message <news:t16uk1lt910ukfvtp09ig9u9o0sdn4okda [at] 4ax.com>
gjw <gjw [at] example.net> enriched us with:
>
> On 12 Oct 2005 18:34:31 GMT, Troels Forchhammer
> <Troels [at] ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:
>>

<snip>

>> I must be ailing in some respect -- I not only understood the
>> above, but I smiled in general agreement ... ;-)
>
> My take is that a normal spell could be used to kill someone, in
> the same way that a common household item (such as a hammer or a
> carving knife) can be used to kill, even though it wasn't designed
> to do that.

Well, first of all I did say that I wasn't sure about this particular
case (spells), but that the general problem (good/evil dichotomisation)
does occur in Potterverse.

With respect to the spells, the problem is not so much how the spells
can, story-internally, be used, or what constitutes an Unforgivable
Curse (I don't agree entirely on that account -- I see the Unforgivable
Curses as being unforgivable because the use of them requires a desire
to do evil -- there are many other spells -- /Sectumsempra/ comes to
mind -- that can be used only for evil purposes, but which are not
unforgivable).

If there is anything to the problem with spells (and I repeat that I am
not convinced that this is the case), then it is not in their potential
to do evil, but in the way they are actually used -- their portrayal in
the books.

I cannot without a great deal of research say whether the
dichotomisation is actual for all or even some spells (beyond the
Patronus charm and the Unforgivable Curses), though I think that some
spells would certainly fall in a third, neutral, category, but if
David's description would be correct, then most spells would be shown
as either being capable of causing harm, or not being so capable -- the
former consisting mainly of various jinxes, hexes and curses.

The point/level where I did agree with what David said was that there
are situations in the books where such a dichotomisation becomes more
important than the consistency of plot or world -- where, for instance,
Voldemort is forced to act unnaturally because he has to be an evil
overlord (I'm not sure that this is an actual example, though). I
cannot give any good examples of this off the top of my head: it was
mainly a sensation or impression that I recalled rather than exact
situations, but I'll try to hunt down a good example.

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>

Knowing what
thou knowest not
is in a sense
omniscience
- Piet Hein, /Omniscience/
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #167428 ] Di, 15 November 2005 19:49
Mark Evans  
David Sueme <dsueme [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Tim Bruening wrote:
>
>> I suggest Accioing a sharp knife, then Accioing Snape right ONTO the knife!
>
> But there is a second level of logic, Tim, that makes this a problem.
> Curses in the Potterverse are dichotomized into ordinary and
> "unforgivable" curses. You are proposing to commit great bodily harm
> (or worse) with the "accio" curse. This would seem to promote it into
> the arena with "advra kadrava", an unforgivable curse. "Accio", unlike

The difference is that AK has no other purpose other than killing.
Even then it's only against Wizarding law to use it to kill
a human being.

> "advra kadrava", is routinely taught to school age innocents. It
> cannot, then, be and "evil" incantation. "Accio" cannot be used to
> kill or maim because it is not a proscribed magic.

It is a general summoning charm. You can summon anything with it,
including a sword or a machine gun.

It's doubtful that "Wingardium Leviosa" is intended to stunning
trolls either.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #167515 ] Do, 17 November 2005 07:02
Toon  
On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:49:57 +0000, Mark Evans
<mpe [at] anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>David Sueme <dsueme [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>>
>>> I suggest Accioing a sharp knife, then Accioing Snape right ONTO the knife!
>>
>> But there is a second level of logic, Tim, that makes this a problem.
>> Curses in the Potterverse are dichotomized into ordinary and
>> "unforgivable" curses. You are proposing to commit great bodily harm
>> (or worse) with the "accio" curse. This would seem to promote it into
>> the arena with "advra kadrava", an unforgivable curse. "Accio", unlike
>
>The difference is that AK has no other purpose other than killing.
>Even then it's only against Wizarding law to use it to kill
>a human being.
>
>> "advra kadrava", is routinely taught to school age innocents. It
>> cannot, then, be and "evil" incantation. "Accio" cannot be used to
>> kill or maim because it is not a proscribed magic.
>
>It is a general summoning charm. You can summon anything with it,
>including a sword or a machine gun.
>
>It's doubtful that "Wingardium Leviosa" is intended to stunning
>trolls either.

But when has anyone ever Accioed an organic being, from an unknown
location, or even great distances. Not to mention, the severe damage
to people, places, things in between as Sirius or Snape goes flying
towards you. Then, you got Accio which is not an unforgivable, but
you're still a murderer, a psycho, and you're kissed by a Dementor
guaranteed. All while hoping Snape doesn't grab Hermione or Neville
or such along the way. Ditto Sirius in the original topic. And what
if he grabs a Dementor along the way? Or Voldemort? Or a boggart?
what if one of the summoners fears V the most, like Lupin thought
Harry did.

I'm pretty sure you can't Accio organics.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #167551 ] Do, 17 November 2005 16:53
drusilla  
"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:307on15stts9nv9mjko70f0b81k2dcdq2g [at] 4ax.com...
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:49:57 +0000, Mark Evans
> <mpe [at] anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>David Sueme <dsueme [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>>>
>>>> I suggest Accioing a sharp knife, then Accioing Snape right ONTO the
>>>> knife!
>>>
>>> But there is a second level of logic, Tim, that makes this a problem.
>>> Curses in the Potterverse are dichotomized into ordinary and
>>> "unforgivable" curses. You are proposing to commit great bodily harm
>>> (or worse) with the "accio" curse. This would seem to promote it into
>>> the arena with "advra kadrava", an unforgivable curse. "Accio", unlike
>>
>>The difference is that AK has no other purpose other than killing.
>>Even then it's only against Wizarding law to use it to kill
>>a human being.
>>
>>> "advra kadrava", is routinely taught to school age innocents. It
>>> cannot, then, be and "evil" incantation. "Accio" cannot be used to
>>> kill or maim because it is not a proscribed magic.
>>
>>It is a general summoning charm. You can summon anything with it,
>>including a sword or a machine gun.
>>
>>It's doubtful that "Wingardium Leviosa" is intended to stunning
>>trolls either.
>
> But when has anyone ever Accioed an organic being, from an unknown
> location, or even great distances. Not to mention, the severe damage
> to people, places, things in between as Sirius or Snape goes flying
> towards you. Then, you got Accio which is not an unforgivable, but
> you're still a murderer, a psycho, and you're kissed by a Dementor
> guaranteed. All while hoping Snape doesn't grab Hermione or Neville
> or such along the way. Ditto Sirius in the original topic. And what
> if he grabs a Dementor along the way? Or Voldemort? Or a boggart?
> what if one of the summoners fears V the most, like Lupin thought
> Harry did.
>
> I'm pretty sure you can't Accio organics.

You can, we've seen that in the books. But making a muggle paralel: you
falls from a cliff, whoever saves you won't just tie a rope around you and
pull up, you can get huirt with whatever is in the way.
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #167603 ] Fr, 18 November 2005 00:31
Blon Fel Fotch Passam  
Toon wrote:

> But when has anyone ever Accioed an organic being, from an unknown
> location, or even great distances. Not to mention, the severe damage
> to people, places, things in between as Sirius or Snape goes flying
> towards you. Then, you got Accio which is not an unforgivable, but
> you're still a murderer, a psycho, and you're kissed by a Dementor
> guaranteed. All while hoping Snape doesn't grab Hermione or Neville
> or such along the way. Ditto Sirius in the original topic. And what
> if he grabs a Dementor along the way? Or Voldemort? Or a boggart?
> what if one of the summoners fears V the most, like Lupin thought
> Harry did.

> I'm pretty sure you can't Accio organics.

These are the Accioed objects and organic beings (*) so far...

the ends of cords
Ton-Tongue Toffees
board dusters
wastepaper baskets
some Lunascopes
books and quills
* a stupid fly
several chairs
a set of Gobstones
* Trevor the toad
a rune dictionary
Harry's Firebolt
the Marauder's Map
the Triwizard Cup
* a gloomy bullfrog
Neville's wand
six Butterbeers
rolls of parchment
the twins' brooms
prophesy (failed)
Harry's wand
* an animated brain
a Horcrux (failed)
Rosmerta's brooms

I've just copied that list from my post earlier in this thread.


Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen

--
Free Margaret Blaine now!
Re: "Accio Sirius Black!" [message #167734 ] Sa, 19 November 2005 04:13
Tim Bruening  
Toon wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:49:57 +0000, Mark Evans
> <mpe [at] anacon.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >David Sueme <dsueme [at] comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Tim Bruening wrote:
> >>
> >>> I suggest Accioing a sharp knife, then Accioing Snape right ONTO the knife!
> >>
> >> But there is a second level of logic, Tim, that makes this a problem.
> >> Curses in the Potterverse are dichotomized into ordinary and
> >> "unforgivable" curses. You are proposing to commit great bodily harm
> >> (or worse) with the "accio" curse. This would seem to promote it into
> >> the arena with "advra kadrava", an unforgivable curse. "Accio", unlike
> >
> >The difference is that AK has no other purpose other than killing.
> >Even then it's only against Wizarding law to use it to kill
> >a human being.
> >
> >> "advra kadrava", is routinely taught to school age innocents. It
> >> cannot, then, be and "evil" incantation. "Accio" cannot be used to
> >> kill or maim because it is not a proscribed magic.
> >
> >It is a general summoning charm. You can summon anything with it,
> >including a sword or a machine gun.
> >
> >It's doubtful that "Wingardium Leviosa" is intended to stunning
> >trolls either.
>
> But when has anyone ever Accioed an organic being, from an unknown
> location, or even great distances. Not to mention, the severe damage
> to people, places, things in between as Sirius or Snape goes flying
> towards you. Then, you got Accio which is not an unforgivable, but
> you're still a murderer, a psycho, and you're kissed by a Dementor
> guaranteed. All while hoping Snape doesn't grab Hermione or Neville
> or such along the way. Ditto Sirius in the original topic. And what
> if he grabs a Dementor along the way? Or Voldemort? Or a boggart?
> what if one of the summoners fears V the most, like Lupin thought
> Harry did.
>
> I'm pretty sure you can't Accio organics.

I've read of animals being Accioed.
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