|
Sprinkler Systems
Uhaul move
Lawn care
Roses and trees
Ford Parts
Chrysler Parts
Lake Powell
New IPod Touch Apps
New IPhone Apps
IPhone Apps
IPad Information
IPad Apps
Android APPS
Android Games APPS
Android Systems
Android Tablets APPS and Beyond
Smartphone Apps
Smartphone Games Apps Repair and Tools
Tablet PC
Car Sharing Car Leasing
Tabler Pc
Fly Fishing
Toyota Cars
Vacation Rentals
Stock market
NYSE
SSE Stock
Freight & Shipping News
Gluten
Lactose
Gout
My Coupon Life
Campgrounds Check
Outdoor
Kitchen Design and Redoo
Bath Remodeling
Palm Springs
Las Vegas Vacation Tipps
Lake Powell Boating
Homes for lease
Electric and green Car Blog
Pearls and diamonds
Whatsapp and forget SMS Blog, What is Whatsapp App
Solar Panel Solar Energie Sun Power Blog
|
Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » New Orleans : Interview with Mayor...
| New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125800] |
Fr, 02 September 2005 19:39 |
|
Bush is a tosser...
----- Forwarded message from "Louis Brusco Jr., M.D."
<lb86 [at] columbia.edu> -----
From: "Louis Brusco Jr., M.D." <lb86 [at] columbia.edu>
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 12:58:39 -0400
To: CCM-L <ccm-l [at] ccm-l.org>,
"A site for social, economic and political comments by members of the
health professions" <med-events [at] ccm-l.org>
Cc:
Subject: [ccm-l] Transcript of radio interview with New Orleans' Nagin
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803
<>*
*
Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses'
Transcript of radio interview with New Orleans' Nagin
Friday, September 2, 2005; Posted: 11:49 a.m. EDT (15:49 GMT)
*(CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal
and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local
radio station WWL-AM.*
The following is a transcript of WWL correspondent Garland Robinette's
interview with Nagin on Thursday night. Robinette asked the mayor about
his conversation with President Bush:
<>*NAGIN:* I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his
flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have
been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not
able to marshal resources and we're outmanned in just about every respect.
You know the reason why the looters got out of control? Because we had
most of our resources saving people, thousands of people that were stuck
in attics, man, old ladies. ... You pull off the doggone ventilator vent
and you look down there and they're standing in there in water up to
their freaking necks.
And they don't have a clue what's going on down here. They flew down
here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras,
AP reporters, all kind of goddamn -- excuse my French everybody in
America, but I am pissed.
*WWL:* Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the
military in here"?
*NAGIN:* I said, "I need everything."
Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on
this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff
done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.
And he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing and people
started moving. And he's getting some stuff done.
They ought to give that guy -- if they don't want to give it to me, give
him full authority to get the job done, and we can save some people.
**WWL:** What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
*NAGIN:* I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses,
man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had,
they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down
here and bus people out here.
I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get
every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses
moving to New Orleans."
That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major
deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.
I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's
bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We
don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines
Parish.
It's awful down here, man.
*WWL:* Do you believe that the president is seeing this, holding a news
conference on it but can't do anything until [Louisiana Gov.] Kathleen
Blanco requested him to do it? And do you know whether or not she has
made that request?
*NAGIN:* I have no idea what they're doing. But I will tell you this:
You know, God is looking down on all this, and if they are not doing
everything in their power to save people, they are going to pay the
price. Because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're
dying by the hundreds, I'm willing to bet you.
We're getting reports and calls that are breaking my heart, from people
saying, "I've been in my attic. I can't take it anymore. The water is up
to my neck. I don't think I can hold out." And that's happening as we speak.
You know what really upsets me, Garland? We told everybody the
importance of the 17th Street Canal issue. We said, "Please, please take
care of this. We don't care what you do. Figure it out."
*WWL:* Who'd you say that to?
*NAGIN:* Everybody: the governor, Homeland Security, FEMA. You name it,
we said it.
And they allowed that pumping station next to Pumping Station 6 to go
under water. Our sewage and water board people ... stayed there and
endangered their lives.
And what happened when that pumping station went down, the water started
flowing again in the city, and it starting getting to levels that
probably killed more people.
In addition to that, we had water flowing through the pipes in the city.
That's a power station over there.
So there's no water flowing anywhere on the east bank of Orleans Parish.
So our critical water supply was destroyed because of lack of action.
*WWL:* Why couldn't they drop the 3,000-pound sandbags or the containers
that they were talking about earlier? Was it an engineering feat that
just couldn't be done?
*NAGIN:* They said it was some pulleys that they had to manufacture.
But, you know, in a state of emergency, man, you are creative, you
figure out ways to get stuff done.
Then they told me that they went overnight, and they built 17 concrete
structures and they had the pulleys on them and they were going to drop
them.
I flew over that thing yesterday, and it's in the same shape that it was
after the storm hit. There is nothing happening. And they're feeding the
public a line of bull and they're spinning, and people are dying down here.
*WWL:* If some of the public called and they're right, that there's a
law that the president, that the federal government can't do anything
without local or state requests, would you request martial law?
*NAGIN:* I've already called for martial law in the city of New Orleans.
We did that a few days ago.
*WWL:* Did the governor do that, too?
*NAGIN:* I don't know. I don't think so.
But we called for martial law when we realized that the looting was
getting out of control. And we redirected all of our police officers
back to patrolling the streets. They were dead-tired from saving people,
but they worked all night because we thought this thing was going to
blow wide open last night. And so we redirected all of our resources,
and we hold it under check.
I'm not sure if we can do that another night with the current resources.
And I am telling you right now: They're showing all these reports of
people looting and doing all that weird stuff, and they are doing that,
but people are desperate and they're trying to find food and water, the
majority of them.
Now you got some knuckleheads out there, and they are taking advantage
of this lawless -- this situation where, you know, we can't really
control it, and they're doing some awful, awful things. But that's a
small majority of the people. Most people are looking to try and survive.
And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed
in and out of New Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so
freely it was scary to me, and that's why we were having the escalation
in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk
about it.
You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for
a fix, and that's the reason why they were breaking in hospitals and
drugstores. They're looking for something to take the edge off of their
jones, if you will.
And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And
they've probably found guns. So what you're seeing is drug-starving
crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And we don't have
the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain
sections of the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God
that we're not overrun.
*WWL:* Well, you and I must be in the minority. Because apparently
there's a section of our citizenry out there that thinks because of a
law that says the federal government can't come in unless requested by
the proper people, that everything that's going on to this point has
been done as good as it can possibly be.
*NAGIN:* Really?
*WWL:* I know you don't feel that way.
*NAGIN:* Well, did the tsunami victims request? Did it go through a
formal process to request?
You know, did the Iraqi people request that we go in there? Did they ask
us to go in there? What is more important?
And I'll tell you, man, I'm probably going get in a whole bunch of
trouble. I'm probably going to get in so much trouble it ain't even
funny. You probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview
is over.
*WWL:* You and I will be in the funny place together.
*NAGIN:* But we authorized $8 billion to go to Iraq lickety-quick. After
9/11, we gave the president unprecedented powers lickety-quick to take
care of New York and other places.
Now, you mean to tell me that a place where most of your oil is coming
through, a place that is so unique when you mention New Orleans anywhere
around the world, everybody's eyes light up -- you mean to tell me that
a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and
thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way
to authorize the resources that we need? Come on, man.
You know, I'm not one of those drug addicts. I am thinking very clearly.
And I don't know whose problem it is. I don't know whether it's the
governor's problem. I don't know whether it's the president's problem,
but somebody needs to get their ass on a plane and sit down, the two of
them, and figure this out right now.
*WWL:* What can we do here?
*NAGIN:* Keep talking about it.
*WWL:* We'll do that. What else can we do?
*NAGIN:* Organize people to write letters and make calls to their
congressmen, to the president, to the governor. Flood their doggone
offices with requests to do something. This is ridiculous.
I don't want to see anybody do anymore goddamn press conferences. Put a
moratorium on press conferences. Don't do another press conference until
the resources are in this city. And then come down to this city and
stand with us when there are military trucks and troops that we can't
even count.
Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here. It's too
doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something, and let's fix the
biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.
**WWL: **I'll say it right now, you're the only politician that's called
and called for arms like this. And if -- whatever it takes, the
governor, president -- whatever law precedent it takes, whatever it
takes, I bet that the people listening to you are on your side.
*NAGIN:* Well, I hope so, Garland. I am just -- I'm at the point now
where it don't matter. People are dying. They don't have homes. They
don't have jobs. The city of New Orleans will never be the same in this
time.
*WWL:* We're both pretty speechless here.
*NAGIN:* Yeah, I don't know what to say. I got to go.
*WWL:* OK. Keep in touch. Keep in touch.
----- End forwarded message -----
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125805 ] |
Fr, 02 September 2005 20:15 |
|
Yup, thats one pissed off guy. Didn't know he called for martial law.
Its the president of a country that had the authorization to declare it
isn't it? Personally I think the shoot to kill policy may be a disastor
if some guy dosn't do the smart thing. You can't excatly kill someone
because they were hungrey and the food was begining to rot in the
shops. They, IMO should allow the people to take the food etc, maybe
take the food to certain spots where more can reach them, and have
other people telling where the food locations are with megaphones by
day and flares by night. That will prevent people from monolopizing the
food sources. As for fresh water, I don't know.
The shoot-to-kill policy is fair as far as making off with a plasma tv
and your neighbours car but shouldn't be implemented againist those who
are just trying to get something to eat from the shops.
I think they most of all need helicopters and generators so they can
use the existing resources in the city to relocate the people outside
and into camps. Oh, yeah and about a zillion bulldozers to clear the
roads.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125811 ] |
Fr, 02 September 2005 21:06 |
|
"Morgan" <southclean1 [at] O2mail.ie> wrote in message
news:1125684938.436377.318400 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Yup, thats one pissed off guy. Didn't know he called for martial law.
> Its the president of a country that had the authorization to declare it
> isn't it?
Martial law -- the suspension of civil authority and the imposition of
military authority -- can (and has) been declared by the President of the
US. Notable examples include Lincoln during the Civil War. Governors are
also permitted by the laws of most states to declare martial law. Logical,
since Presidents and Governors are in actual command of military forces.
Mayors don't have that authority as far as I can tell.
Of course, the problem with the Mayor's "call" for martial law is that he
has no legal authority to impose martial law. And there's also the little
problem that Louisiana law does not give the Governor that authority
either -- there is no "martial law" per se in Louisiana law. The governor
did order a "state of public health emergency" on 8/26. This allows her to
suspend laws, order evacuations, and limit the sales of items such as
alcohol and firearms. Of course, the problem is that she has failed to
actually *do* these things (other than the evacuations, which *someone*
ordered, though about a day too late).
So the mayor should direct his outrage to his governor, not to the
President. It is unseemly for someone purportedly in charge to resort to
such hysterics. Since he hasn't been prone to this in the past, I suspect
that he's coming unhinged.
The bottom line is that there was a failure of leadership at the local and
state level. The mayor and governor failed to take appropriate steps
immediately *after* the hurricane to preserve order. They were simply unable
to function. They then dawdled while the situation spun out of control. And
now they are desperately trying to blame *someone* for their own
incompetence.
> Personally I think the shoot to kill policy may be a disastor
> if some guy dosn't do the smart thing.
History suggests that looting will stop after a few looters are shot. I see
no reason to assume that it will be any different in New Orleans.
> You can't excatly kill someone
> because they were hungrey and the food was begining to rot in the
> shops.
The problem is that the looting was widespread and encompassed *far* more
than food and water. It also led to riots and violence.
> They, IMO should allow the people to take the food etc, maybe
> take the food to certain spots where more can reach them
The urbanized areas of New Orleans have relatively few grocery stores;
certainly not enough to feed tens of thousands of people for any length of
time. And food isn't the problem; water is. You can live many days without
eating. You can't live without drinking. When the people start drinking the
sewage-tainted water, we'll have a serious public health problem on our
hands in no time.
The bottom line is that the city will have to be evacuated. It is simply
uninhabitable by the tens of thousands who stayed behind.
> The shoot-to-kill policy is fair as far as making off with a plasma tv
> and your neighbours car but shouldn't be implemented againist those who
> are just trying to get something to eat from the shops.
As noted above, there are few "shops" carrying food and they have likely
been completely looted.
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125812 ] |
Fr, 02 September 2005 21:15 |
|
"Zip" <zip [at] nowhere.never> wrote in message
news:dfa2o8$8qa$1 [at] nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Bush is a tosser...
<snip>
I'm fascinated by the ability of you lefty nutters to blame Bush for
*everything*.
OK, so there's a federal law that says federal forces can't move into
Louisiana until asked by the Governor. But for some reason you lefties
haven't been castigating the governor of Louisiana for not asking for help
until long after it became apparent that her administration was woefully
unprepared for this emergency. Why? For that matter, *why* are you lefties
constantly whining about Bush, but silent about this irrational basket-case
mayor (who still seems to be on the verge of a breakdown) who allowed the
looting and rioting to escalate out of control?
Of course, the mayor and governor of Louisiana are Democrats, but that
wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it?
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125816 ] |
Fr, 02 September 2005 21:36 |
|
"Ty" <tybeardSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote...
> I'm fascinated by the ability of you lefty nutters to blame Bush for
> *everything*.
>
> OK, so there's a federal law that says federal forces can't move into
> Louisiana until asked by the Governor. But for some reason you lefties
> haven't been castigating the governor of Louisiana for not asking for help
> until long after it became apparent that her administration was woefully
> unprepared for this emergency. Why? For that matter, *why* are you lefties
> constantly whining about Bush, but silent about this irrational
basket-case
> mayor (who still seems to be on the verge of a breakdown) who allowed the
> looting and rioting to escalate out of control?
>
> Of course, the mayor and governor of Louisiana are Democrats, but that
> wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it?
A good president, in this situation, would say words to the effect of....
"Get the troops down there now!... I don't care about that law... I am the
President of the United States!"
....with the swell of the brass and strings to back him up.
And Americans would *CHEER* for him.
But no... Bush didn't do this.
Bush is a tosser.
-Paul.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125822 ] |
Fr, 02 September 2005 22:07 |
|
"Zip" <zip [at] nowhere.never> wrote in message
news:dfa9jj$d9e$1 [at] nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> "Ty" <tybeardSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote...
>> Of course, the mayor and governor of Louisiana are Democrats, but that
>> wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it?
> A good president, in this situation, would say words to the effect of....
> "Get the troops down there now!... I don't care about that law... I am the
> President of the United States!"
Yeah, and you lefties would scream to high heaven for trampelling the
Constitution.
> ...with the swell of the brass and strings to back him up.
>
> And Americans would *CHEER* for him.
>
> But no... Bush didn't do this.
>
> Bush is a tosser.
I notice you failed to answer my question. Why haven't you lefties been
castigating the *Democrat* mayor of New Orleans and *Democrat* governor of
Louisiana?
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125825 ] |
Fr, 02 September 2005 23:04 |
|
As more evidence of the hapless of the mayor's regime,
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc 21109012015
Note the *hundreds* of school busses that might have been used to evacuate
the residents of New Orleans, but weren't.
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125827 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 01:35 |
|
Ty kirjoitti viestissä ...
>"Zip" <zip [at] nowhere.never> wrote in message
>news:dfa9jj$d9e$1 [at] nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> "Get the troops down there now!... I don't care about that law... I am
the
>> President of the United States!"
>
>Yeah, and you lefties would scream to high heaven for trampelling the
>Constitution.
Typical righwing excuse. "We would have done it but we were
afraid of what the Scary Lefties would have said. We are so
scared of them we can't make a single decision if there's a
chance it might upset them. It's all their fault!" Pathetic.
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125830 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 01:42 |
|
"Ty" <tybeardSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote...
> > Bush is a tosser.
>
> I notice you failed to answer my question. Why haven't you lefties been
> castigating the *Democrat* mayor of New Orleans and *Democrat* governor of
> Louisiana?
Well for one thing, I have no fucking clue which political party the
Governer of Louisiana is on, and B, I couldn't fucking care less : It is
irrelevant... And finally, The President is the Almighty Ruler of your
country... the buck stops with him you dumb prick... His name *happens* to
be Bush.
If his name had been "Mathieson" or "Clark" or "Smith", and they had reacted
to this crises in the same way "Bush" hasn't... I'd have been saying...
"Mathieson is a tosser"
"Clark is a Tosser"
or
"Smith is a Tosser"
No matter what fucking political affilitation they happen to have in your
pathetic excuse for a democratic system.... You lame, narrow-minded, spare
prick.
I don't mince words when it comes to the likes of you.
Piss off.
-Paul.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125832 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 03:17 |
|
"Zip" <zip [at] nowhere.never> wrote in message
news:dfao08$nic$1 [at] nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> "Ty" <tybeardSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote...
> > > Bush is a tosser.
> > I notice you failed to answer my question. Why haven't you lefties been
> > castigating the *Democrat* mayor of New Orleans and *Democrat* governor
of
> > Louisiana?
> Well for one thing, I have no fucking clue which political party the
> Governer of Louisiana is on, and B, I couldn't fucking care less : It is
> irrelevant...
Swearing in written communication is so *affected*, you know? Kinda like a
small boy trying to impress the grownups.
In any case, I find your claim unpersuasive.
> I don't mince words when it comes to the likes of you.
You should; your words might then evoke something besides pity.
> Piss off.
You first.
But please...continue the overwrought hysterics.
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125833 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 03:33 |
|
"Zip" <zip [at] nowhere.never> wrote in message
news:dfao08$nic$1 [at] nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> country... the buck stops with him you dumb prick... His name *happens* to
> be Bush.
http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?base/news- 18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana
Looks to me like Bush *saved* many thousands of lives. Past policy in New
Orleans had been to make evacuations optional. But Bush called the hapless
idiot governor of Louisiana and begged her to issue a mandatory evacuation
order:
"The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave
the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because
airlines had already cancelled all flights.
Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said
President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for
the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding."
So once again, your hysterical Bush Derangement Syndrome makes you look like
the clueless idiot that you are.
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125840 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 06:26 |
|
Ty kirjoitti viestissä ...
>Swearing in written communication is so *affected*, you know? Kinda like a
>small boy trying to impress the grownups.
This from someone who thinks "I know you are, but what am I?"
is an appropriate response to critisicm...
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125841 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 06:32 |
|
Ty kirjoitti viestissä ...
> http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?base/news- 18/112523994020
1382.xml&storylist=louisiana
>
>Looks to me like Bush *saved* many thousands of lives. Past policy in New
>Orleans had been to make evacuations optional. But Bush called the hapless
>idiot governor of Louisiana and begged her to issue a mandatory evacuation
>order:
As usual the article does not say what you claim it says.
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125858 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 13:54 |
|
Morgil wrote:
>
> Ty kirjoitti viestissä ...
>
>>Swearing in written communication is so *affected*, you know? Kinda like a
>>small boy trying to impress the grownups.
>
> This from someone who thinks "I know you are, but what am I?"
> is an appropriate response to critisicm...
>
> Morgil
At first I thought I wouldn't get involved, but then, this is _New_
_Orleans_, one of the US's genuine national treasures, an international
cultural icon, and from what I know, Bush's bleeding of troops and finance
for his Iraq misadventure took money from levee maintenance in Louisiana,
and National Guard from civil defense of their homes ... _This_ _is_ _New_
_Orleans_, goddamit! _Birthplace_ _of_ _the_ _Delta_ _Blues_!
I laughed when I read your comments, Morgil!
Keep it up. One million Ty aren't worth one of New Orleans' poorest
citizens.
Wesley Parish
--
"Good, late in to more rewarding well."  "Well, you tonight.  And I was
lookintelligent woman of Ming home.  I trust you with a tender silence."  I
get a word into my hands, a different and unbelike, probably - 'she
fortunate fat woman', wrong word.  I think to me, I justupid.
Let not emacs meta-X dissociate-press write your romantic dialogs...!!!
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125865 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 15:36 |
|
"Tux Wonder-Dog" <wes.parish [at] paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:43198de3 [at] clear.net.nz...
> At first I thought I wouldn't get involved, but then, this is _New_
> _Orleans_, one of the US's genuine national treasures, an international
> cultural icon, and from what I know, Bush's bleeding of troops and finance
> for his Iraq misadventure took money from levee maintenance in Louisiana,
Then your information is obviously incorrect, though it's unclear whether
this is due to ignorance or derangement. I've already quoted the Army Corps
of Engineers official who flatly stated that the levee that collapsed was a
*new* levee and that lack of funds had nothing to do with it.
And if we are going to play the blame game, LEXIS/NEXIS turns up dozens of
stories about the Clinton Administration starving Louisiana for levee
construction funds from 1993-2000 because of pressure from environmentalist
loons.
But since the levee that collapsed was a *new* levee, that dog won't hunt
either. You folks need to stop giving into your Bush Derangement Syndrome so
easily.
The bottom line is rather simple -- the hapless mayor and idiot governor of
Louisiana were utterly inadequate to the task. They had *no* plans for a
mandatory evacuation and only belated ordered one after Bush personally
called the governor and requested it. So the same Bush that you lefties are
so deranged about probably saved thousands of lives by this single act.
After the storm, the hapless mayor and idiot governor were too busy sighing
with relief that the storm missed New Orleans to notice the broken levee and
subsequent rioting and looting. For *three days* they let that go on. The
idiot governor didn't even mobilize the Louisiana national guard until days
after the storm. Amazing.
Oh, and the mayor and governor are Democrats...
As a contrast note that the governor of Mississippi (a Republican) deployed
the national guard before the storm and gave orders to shoot looters.
Consequently, no looting stories from Mississippi.
> Keep it up. One million Ty aren't worth one of New Orleans' poorest
> citizens.
An interesting assertion since I come from that area and have relatives down
there.
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125869 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 15:52 |
|
"Ty" <tybeardSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:wFhSe.3959$v83.918 [at] newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> "Tux Wonder-Dog" <wes.parish [at] paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
> news:43198de3 [at] clear.net.nz...
>
>> At first I thought I wouldn't get involved, but then, this is _New_
>> _Orleans_, one of the US's genuine national treasures, an international
>> cultural icon, and from what I know, Bush's bleeding of troops and
>> finance
>> for his Iraq misadventure took money from levee maintenance in Louisiana,
>
> Then your information is obviously incorrect, though it's unclear whether
> this is due to ignorance or derangement. I've already quoted the Army
> Corps
> of Engineers official who flatly stated that the levee that collapsed was
> a
> *new* levee and that lack of funds had nothing to do with it.
>
> And if we are going to play the blame game, LEXIS/NEXIS turns up dozens of
> stories about the Clinton Administration starving Louisiana for levee
> construction funds from 1993-2000 because of pressure from
> environmentalist
> loons.
>
> But since the levee that collapsed was a *new* levee, that dog won't hunt
> either. You folks need to stop giving into your Bush Derangement Syndrome
> so
> easily.
>
> The bottom line is rather simple -- the hapless mayor and idiot governor
> of
> Louisiana were utterly inadequate to the task. They had *no* plans for a
> mandatory evacuation and only belated ordered one after Bush personally
> called the governor and requested it. So the same Bush that you lefties
> are
> so deranged about probably saved thousands of lives by this single act.
>
> After the storm, the hapless mayor and idiot governor were too busy
> sighing
> with relief that the storm missed New Orleans to notice the broken levee
> and
> subsequent rioting and looting. For *three days* they let that go on. The
> idiot governor didn't even mobilize the Louisiana national guard until
> days
> after the storm. Amazing.
>
> Oh, and the mayor and governor are Democrats...
>
> As a contrast note that the governor of Mississippi (a Republican)
> deployed
> the national guard before the storm and gave orders to shoot looters.
> Consequently, no looting stories from Mississippi.
>
>> Keep it up. One million Ty aren't worth one of New Orleans' poorest
>> citizens.
>
> An interesting assertion since I come from that area and have relatives
> down
> there.
>
> --Ty
>
>
Ty,
You have to admit that Bush could have done a much better response to the
situation as well. During 9-11, Bush was absolutely inspiring when he
visited Ground Zero. You couldn't have asked for more.
But when I saw his press conference after his fly-over tour of the scene, I
thought I was watching Tarzan give a speech. "Me President, New Orleans bad.
Much water. People go 'glub glub' and sink in water. Cheetah upset. Jane
looting."
Although I understand about the levees and such, you have to admit that this
was FAR from being the finest hours of the Bush presidency.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125873 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 17:07 |
|
Ty <tybeardSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote:
<snip>
> dozens of stories about the Clinton Administration starving Louisiana
> for levee construction funds from 1993-2000 because of pressure from
> environmentalist loons.
Were these the same environmental loons that said that keeping the
wetlands around New Orleans would help to absorb the storm surge from
any hurricane? The re-engineering of the coastline around New Orleans
over the past century, constraining the river and preventing the natural
river silt deposition that forms a delta, made the area MORE susceptible
to hurricane damage. Oh, and while New Orleans was preserved by this
re-engineering of the land (mostly constraining the Mississippi River to
prevent flooding), instead of flood deposits naturally raising the level
of the land, the land that New Orleans is built on steadily sank and is
now, as we all know from the news reports and as the residents have
known for years, below sea level, AND, more importantly, below the level
of the river and lake on either side.
Christopher
--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125877 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 18:48 |
|
"Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:M_iSe.101582
> > dozens of stories about the Clinton Administration starving Louisiana
> > for levee construction funds from 1993-2000 because of pressure from
> > environmentalist loons.
> Were these the same environmental loons that said that keeping the
> wetlands around New Orleans would help to absorb the storm surge from
> any hurricane?
No, I don't think so. IIRC, the Army Corps of Engineers made this case
decades ago. The particular enviro-loons that pressured Clinton were
concerned about a few allegedly endangered fish species.
In any case, lack of funding during Democrat or Republican administrations
didn't create this problem. A new levee failed and the local authorities
were hapless and utterly incompetent.
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125878 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 18:48 |
|
"Bajori" <baronjosefr [at] aol.com> wrote in message
news:fUhSe.120790$WN5.27788 [at] fe02.news.easynews.com...
> Ty,
> You have to admit that Bush could have done a much better response to the
> situation as well. During 9-11, Bush was absolutely inspiring when he
> visited Ground Zero. You couldn't have asked for more.
<shrug>
Almost any action can be improved. Indeed, Bush himself has characterized
the reaction of FEMA as unsatisfactory. But there's a huge difference
between saying that the reaction could have been better and characterizing
the *clear* ineptitude of the local officials as somehow being Bush's fault.
This is especially galling when we recall that *Bush* was the one who
pressed the idiot Louisiana governor into ordering a mandatory evacuation.
Had Bush not done this, it seems likely to me tha the death toll would be
*much* higher and the problems *far* worse.
There are also a variety of flatly inaccurate statements, such as blaming
the levee collapse on purported cuts in funding by Bush. As I noted, the
levee that collapsed was a new levee. And of course, LEXIS/NEXIS turns up
numerous articles about Clinton reducing funding as well.
> But when I saw his press conference after his fly-over tour of the scene,
I
> thought I was watching Tarzan give a speech. "Me President, New Orleans
bad.
> Much water. People go 'glub glub' and sink in water. Cheetah upset. Jane
> looting."
Compared to the emoting and whining in the governor's press conferences, and
the insane babbling in the mayor's conferences, Bush sounded like Henry V
before Agincourt.
> Although I understand about the levees and such, you have to admit that
this
> was FAR from being the finest hours of the Bush presidency.
<shrug>
I don't think that the available evidence justifies such a conclusion.
Federal emergency units were in place before the storm hit. Bush personally
pressed the idiot governor into ordering a mandatory evacuation. Bush's
"failure" appears to be in assuming that the mayor and governor could be
trusted to competently carry out their duties.
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125879 ] |
Sa, 03 September 2005 20:20 |
|
Ty <tybeardSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote:
<snip>
> A new levee failed
They are calling it a floodwall. Built on top of a levee. FWIW.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125882 ] |
So, 04 September 2005 00:45 |
|
"Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:PPlSe.101677$G8.30536 [at] text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Ty <tybeardSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> <snip>
> > A new levee failed
> They are calling it a floodwall. Built on top of a levee. FWIW.
I was repeating what the Army Corps of Engineers said:
"In a telephone interview with reporters, corps
officials said that although portions of the flood-
protection levees remain incomplete, the levees
near Lake Pontchartrain that gave way--inundating
much of the city--were completed and in good
condition before the hurricane."
In any case, I don't think that changing the terminology affects my point.
--Ty
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125887 ] |
So, 04 September 2005 07:30 |
|
Ty kirjoitti viestissä ...
>In any case, lack of funding during Democrat or Republican administrations
>didn't create this problem. A new levee failed and the local authorities
>were hapless and utterly incompetent.
And the Federal Government was hopelessly slow in
responsing to the crisis, but we cannot say that out
loud, because that would be criticizing Bush...
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125936 ] |
So, 04 September 2005 23:36 |
|
In article <dfa2o8$8qa$1 [at] nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
zip [at] nowhere.never says...
> **WWL:** What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
>
> *NAGIN:* I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses,
> man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had,
> they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down
> here and bus people out here.
Well, Mr. Mayor, here are the buses:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc 21109012015
Right where you left them to rot.
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125957 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 10:04 |
|
Tar-Elenion wrote:
> In article <dfa2o8$8qa$1 [at] nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
> zip [at] nowhere.never says...
>
>
>>**WWL:** What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
>>
>>*NAGIN:* I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses,
>>man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had,
>>they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down
>>here and bus people out here.
>
>
> Well, Mr. Mayor, here are the buses:
> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc 21109012015
>
> Right where you left them to rot.
You left out the part where he said his answer to using
school buses was: "You got to be kidding me. This is a
national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line
in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."
Even if it would have been possible to get those buses
out of New Orleans with all the roads jammed by refugees,
it's hardly anyone's first priority when the entire city
is about to get flooded. So it's hard to see your point.
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #125958 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 12:03 |
|
In article <dfgu6g$4ld$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
says...
> Tar-Elenion wrote:
> > In article <dfa2o8$8qa$1 [at] nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
> > zip [at] nowhere.never says...
> >
> >
> >>**WWL:** What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
> >>
> >>*NAGIN:* I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses,
> >>man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had,
> >>they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down
> >>here and bus people out here.
> >
> >
> > Well, Mr. Mayor, here are the buses:
> > http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc 21109012015
> >
> > Right where you left them to rot.
>
> You left out the part where he said his answer to using
> school buses was: "You got to be kidding me. This is a
> national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line
> in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."
>
> Even if it would have been possible to get those buses
> out of New Orleans with all the roads jammed by refugees,
> it's hardly anyone's first priority when the entire city
> is about to get flooded. So it's hard to see your point.
The evacuation order was issued before the hurricane. Those buses, which
fall under the jurisdiction of the Mayor, who was responsible for the
evacuation, should have been used for the evacuation, rather than him
saying he needed Greyhound buses to come in well after the event. By the
time he was claiming he need greyhound buses to come in, the schoolbuses
were rotting away in the flood. Not to mention that bring greyhound
buses from all over the country would have taken days to organize and
get there, and the roads would be in no way suitable. Or in other words
what the Mayor was clompaining about, wad that he wanted greyhound buses
to show up on his doorstep on Friday September 2nd, I am saying he could
have used those school buses (of which there were a couple hundred in
that lot) to evacuate people on the 26th and 27th and 28th of August.
Hopefully you will now be able to follow my point.
From the State of Louisiana EOP supplement:
5. The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles.
School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles
provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for
individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in
evacuating.
And from the City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management
Plan:
ANNEX I: HURRICANES
PREPAREDNESS (PHASE I: TRAINING, EXERCISES AND EDUCATION)
V. TASKS
A. Mayor
* Initiate the evacuation.
* Retain overall control of all evacuation procedures via EOC operations
..
D. Regional Transit Authority
* Supply transportation as needed in accordance with the current
Standard Operating Procedures.
* Place special vehicles on alert to be utilized if needed.
* Position supervisors and dispatch evacuation buses.
* If warranted by scope of evacuation, implement additional service.
* Position supervisors and dispatch evacuation buses.
http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127338 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 13:13 |
|
Tar-Elenion wrote:
> In article <dfgu6g$4ld$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
> says...
>>Even if it would have been possible to get those buses
>>out of New Orleans with all the roads jammed by refugees,
>>it's hardly anyone's first priority when the entire city
>>is about to get flooded. So it's hard to see your point.
>
>
>
> The evacuation order was issued before the hurricane. Those buses, which
> fall under the jurisdiction of the Mayor, who was responsible for the
> evacuation, should have been used for the evacuation, rather than him
> saying he needed Greyhound buses to come in well after the event. By the
> time he was claiming he need greyhound buses to come in, the schoolbuses
> were rotting away in the flood. Not to mention that bring greyhound
> buses from all over the country would have taken days to organize and
> get there, and the roads would be in no way suitable. Or in other words
> what the Mayor was clompaining about, wad that he wanted greyhound buses
> to show up on his doorstep on Friday September 2nd, I am saying he could
> have used those school buses (of which there were a couple hundred in
> that lot) to evacuate people on the 26th and 27th and 28th of August.
> Hopefully you will now be able to follow my point.
Yes, and to be honest, it sounds like something that is
easy to say on hindsight. Obviously it's easy to say now
that they should have taken as many people as far away
as soon as possible, but how does it help the situation
*now*, to tell in hindsight what should have done earlier?
That's the part which is hard to see. Wheter the failures
in evacuation before the storm were Mayor's fault, is a
different matter.
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127342 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 13:29 |
|
In article <dfh98s$9nu$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
says...
> Tar-Elenion wrote:
> > In article <dfgu6g$4ld$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
> > says...
>
<snip>
>
> Yes, and to be honest, it sounds like something that is
> easy to say on hindsight.
(I will have to save this)
> Obviously it's easy to say now
> that they should have taken as many people as far away
> as soon as possible, but how does it help the situation
> *now*, to tell in hindsight what should have done earlier?
(And this part)
> That's the part which is hard to see. Wheter the failures
> in evacuation before the storm were Mayor's fault, is a
> different matter.
(And here to connect it)
No, the matter is related to the mayor hysterically trying to cast blame
on others. If he wants to dish it out, he can take it back. Otherwise he
was being completely useless and only feeding into a hysterically
overwrought and self-serving media frenzy.
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127349 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 13:51 |
|
Tar-Elenion wrote:
> No, the matter is related to the mayor hysterically trying to cast blame
> on others. If he wants to dish it out, he can take it back. Otherwise he
> was being completely useless and only feeding into a hysterically
> overwrought and self-serving media frenzy.
Well, you might want to save that criticism to topics that
are actually related to it then, to avoid misunderstandings.
Just a suggestion.
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127350 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 13:57 |
|
I sure would like to know why they weren't used before Katrina hit land to
get people out of there that didn't have their own transportation.
Andrea
"Tar-Elenion" <tar_elenion [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d8508b3d8ab4cd198990f [at] newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <dfa2o8$8qa$1 [at] nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
> zip [at] nowhere.never says...
>
>> **WWL:** What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
>>
>> *NAGIN:* I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses,
>> man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had,
>> they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down
>> here and bus people out here.
>
> Well, Mr. Mayor, here are the buses:
> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc 21109012015
>
> Right where you left them to rot.
>
>
> --
> Tar-Elenion
>
> He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
> stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
> ago did thee this hurt.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127351 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 14:09 |
|
In article <dfhbg2$arm$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
says...
> Tar-Elenion wrote:
>
> > No, the matter is related to the mayor hysterically trying to cast blame
> > on others. If he wants to dish it out, he can take it back. Otherwise he
> > was being completely useless and only feeding into a hysterically
> > overwrought and self-serving media frenzy.
>
> Well, you might want to save that criticism to topics that
> are actually related to it then, to avoid misunderstandings.
There was no misunderstanding, and it was related.
> Just a suggestion.
I'll file it in the appropriate receptacle.
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127352 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 14:15 |
|
In article <hoWSe.25826$1g2.6832 [at] fe05.lga>, andrea37 [at] charter.net says...
> "Tar-Elenion" <tar_elenion [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d8508b3d8ab4cd198990f [at] newsgroups.comcast.net...
> > In article <dfa2o8$8qa$1 [at] nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
> > zip [at] nowhere.never says...
> >
> >> **WWL:** What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
> >>
> >> *NAGIN:* I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses,
> >> man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had,
> >> they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down
> >> here and bus people out here.
> >
> > Well, Mr. Mayor, here are the buses:
> > http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc 21109012015
> >
> > Right where you left them to rot.
>
> I sure would like to know why they weren't used before Katrina hit land to
> get people out of there that didn't have their own transportation.
I'm sure a lot of people would like to know.
I would like to know why the Mayor of New Orleans has not been asked by
the media (which has done an utterly pathetic job over the past week),
and how long it will take them to ask him.
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127353 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 14:14 |
|
Andrea Wojtewicz wrote:
> I sure would like to know why they weren't used before Katrina hit land to
> get people out of there that didn't have their own transportation.
As I understood it, the plan was to get the people without
transportation to the Superdome, and transportations to
there were available, but many people simply decided to
stay at their homes. I don't know how rational it would
have been to start transporting those people from what was
assumed to be a safe place, to some unknown location by
school buses, with roads being jammed by refugees and the
hurricane about to strike at any moment...
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127354 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 14:20 |
|
Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in
news:dfh98s$9nu$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:
> Tar-Elenion wrote:
>> In article <dfgu6g$4ld$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
>> says...
>
>>>Even if it would have been possible to get those buses
>>>out of New Orleans with all the roads jammed by refugees,
>>>it's hardly anyone's first priority when the entire city
>>>is about to get flooded. So it's hard to see your point.
>>
>>
>>
>> The evacuation order was issued before the hurricane. Those buses,
>> which fall under the jurisdiction of the Mayor, who was responsible
>> for the evacuation, should have been used for the evacuation, rather
>> than him saying he needed Greyhound buses to come in well after the
>> event. By the time he was claiming he need greyhound buses to come
>> in, the schoolbuses were rotting away in the flood. Not to mention
>> that bring greyhound buses from all over the country would have taken
>> days to organize and get there, and the roads would be in no way
>> suitable. Or in other words what the Mayor was clompaining about, wad
>> that he wanted greyhound buses to show up on his doorstep on Friday
>> September 2nd, I am saying he could have used those school buses (of
>> which there were a couple hundred in that lot) to evacuate people on
>> the 26th and 27th and 28th of August. Hopefully you will now be able
>> to follow my point.
>
> Yes, and to be honest, it sounds like something that is
> easy to say on hindsight. Obviously it's easy to say now
> that they should have taken as many people as far away
> as soon as possible, but how does it help the situation
> *now*, to tell in hindsight what should have done earlier?
> That's the part which is hard to see. Wheter the failures
> in evacuation before the storm were Mayor's fault, is a
> different matter.
But of course people must demand responsibility for many aspects of the
situation, on all political and executive levels, locally as well as in
the White House. How else prevent that the next natural catastrophe will
have as disastrous effects? It is a strange argument that it doesn't
"help the situation now" to crave responsibility for errors made. Maybe
it isn't the proper moment to do so until the disaster is dealt with, but
it would be very odd if it wouldn't be done at all.
There are many aspects of a situation like this. I'd for instance be
interested in looking at the laws that regulate town planning in the US,
and at how the city plans for New Orleans have been decided, how building
regulations have been enforced etcetera. I suppose that the Mayor and his
predecessors have had some part in this.
--
Mästerkatten
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127355 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 14:23 |
|
Tar-Elenion wrote:
> In article <dfhbg2$arm$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
> says...
>
>>Tar-Elenion wrote:
>>
>>
>>>No, the matter is related to the mayor hysterically trying to cast blame
>>>on others. If he wants to dish it out, he can take it back. Otherwise he
>>>was being completely useless and only feeding into a hysterically
>>>overwrought and self-serving media frenzy.
>>
>>Well, you might want to save that criticism to topics that
>>are actually related to it then, to avoid misunderstandings.
>
>
> There was no misunderstanding, and it was related.
Not to the quote which you answered to anyway.
> **WWL:** What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
>
> *NAGIN:* I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses,
> man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had,
> they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down
> here and bus people out here.
As you see, he is not casting blame on anyone, but telling
what is needed *right now* to get control of the situation.
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127356 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 14:40 |
|
In article <dfhdbe$bsv$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
says...
> Tar-Elenion wrote:
> > In article <dfhbg2$arm$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
> > says...
> >
> >>Tar-Elenion wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>No, the matter is related to the mayor hysterically trying to cast blame
> >>>on others. If he wants to dish it out, he can take it back. Otherwise he
> >>>was being completely useless and only feeding into a hysterically
> >>>overwrought and self-serving media frenzy.
> >>
> >>Well, you might want to save that criticism to topics that
> >>are actually related to it then, to avoid misunderstandings.
> >
> >
> > There was no misunderstanding, and it was related.
>
> Not to the quote which you answered to anyway.
Correct, there was no misunderstanding. Incorrect, it was related.
>
> > **WWL:** What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
> >
> > *NAGIN:* I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses,
> > man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had,
> > they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down
> > here and bus people out here.
Well, Mr. Mayor, here are the buses:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc 21109012015
Right where you left them to rot.
> As you see, he is not casting blame on anyone, but telling
> what is needed *right now* to get control of the situation.
>
Don't tell me what I see. He was casting blame, I've seen the articles,
and heard the interveiws.
> > >Just a suggestion.
> > I'll file it in the appropriate receptacle.
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127357 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 14:36 |
|
Mästerkatten wrote:
> Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:dfh98s$9nu$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:
>>Yes, and to be honest, it sounds like something that is
>>easy to say on hindsight. Obviously it's easy to say now
>>that they should have taken as many people as far away
>>as soon as possible, but how does it help the situation
>>*now*, to tell in hindsight what should have done earlier?
>>That's the part which is hard to see. Wheter the failures
>>in evacuation before the storm were Mayor's fault, is a
>>different matter.
>
>
> But of course people must demand responsibility for many aspects of the
> situation, on all political and executive levels, locally as well as in
> the White House. How else prevent that the next natural catastrophe will
> have as disastrous effects? It is a strange argument that it doesn't
> "help the situation now" to crave responsibility for errors made. Maybe
> it isn't the proper moment to do so until the disaster is dealt with, but
> it would be very odd if it wouldn't be done at all.
I agree completely. I just oppose the logic that it's
somehow wrong and condemnable for the Mayor to demand
evacuation *now*, on grounds that he might have failed
in the evacuation process earlier.
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127358 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 14:47 |
|
Tar-Elenion wrote:
> In article <dfhdbe$bsv$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
> says...
>
>>Tar-Elenion wrote:
>>
>>>In article <dfhbg2$arm$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
>>>says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tar-Elenion wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>No, the matter is related to the mayor hysterically trying to cast blame
>>>>>on others. If he wants to dish it out, he can take it back. Otherwise he
>>>>>was being completely useless and only feeding into a hysterically
>>>>>overwrought and self-serving media frenzy.
>>>>
>>>>Well, you might want to save that criticism to topics that
>>>>are actually related to it then, to avoid misunderstandings.
>>>
>>>
>>>There was no misunderstanding, and it was related.
>>
>>Not to the quote which you answered to anyway.
>
>
> Correct, there was no misunderstanding. Incorrect, it was related.
>
>> > **WWL:** What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
>> >
>> > *NAGIN:* I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses,
>> > man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had,
>> > they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down
>> > here and bus people out here.
>
>
> Well, Mr. Mayor, here are the buses:
> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc 21109012015
>
> Right where you left them to rot.
>
>
>>As you see, he is not casting blame on anyone, but telling
>>what is needed *right now* to get control of the situation.
>>
>
> Don't tell me what I see. He was casting blame, I've seen the articles,
> and heard the interveiws.
He might very well be casting blame, but not in the
quote which you picked to reply to. Do you see now?
Morgil
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127359 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 14:55 |
|
In article <dfhep6$cjv$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
says...
> Tar-Elenion wrote:
> > In article <dfhdbe$bsv$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
> > says...
> >
> >>Tar-Elenion wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <dfhbg2$arm$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
> >>>says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Tar-Elenion wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>No, the matter is related to the mayor hysterically trying to cast blame
> >>>>>on others. If he wants to dish it out, he can take it back. Otherwise he
> >>>>>was being completely useless and only feeding into a hysterically
> >>>>>overwrought and self-serving media frenzy.
> >>>>
> >>>>Well, you might want to save that criticism to topics that
> >>>>are actually related to it then, to avoid misunderstandings.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>There was no misunderstanding, and it was related.
> >>
> >>Not to the quote which you answered to anyway.
> >
> >
> > Correct, there was no misunderstanding. Incorrect, it was related.
> >
> >> > **WWL:** What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
> >> >
> >> > *NAGIN:* I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses,
> >> > man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had,
> >> > they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down
> >> > here and bus people out here.
> >
> >
> > Well, Mr. Mayor, here are the buses:
> > http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc 21109012015
> >
> > Right where you left them to rot.
> >
> >
> >>As you see, he is not casting blame on anyone, but telling
> >>what is needed *right now* to get control of the situation.
> >>
> >
> > Don't tell me what I see. He was casting blame, I've seen the articles,
> > and heard the interveiws.
>
> He might very well be casting blame, but not in the
> quote which you picked to reply to. Do you see now?
Nope, he was casting blame.
--
Tar-Elenion
He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every
stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long
ago did thee this hurt.
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127360 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 15:06 |
|
Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in
news:dfhe5b$c98$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:
> Mästerkatten wrote:
>> Morgil <morestelx [at] hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:dfh98s$9nu$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi:
>
>>>Yes, and to be honest, it sounds like something that is
>>>easy to say on hindsight. Obviously it's easy to say now
>>>that they should have taken as many people as far away
>>>as soon as possible, but how does it help the situation
>>>*now*, to tell in hindsight what should have done earlier?
>>>That's the part which is hard to see. Wheter the failures
>>>in evacuation before the storm were Mayor's fault, is a
>>>different matter.
>>
>>
>> But of course people must demand responsibility for many aspects of
>> the situation, on all political and executive levels, locally as well
>> as in the White House. How else prevent that the next natural
>> catastrophe will have as disastrous effects? It is a strange argument
>> that it doesn't "help the situation now" to crave responsibility for
>> errors made. Maybe it isn't the proper moment to do so until the
>> disaster is dealt with, but it would be very odd if it wouldn't be
>> done at all.
>
> I agree completely. I just oppose the logic that it's
> somehow wrong and condemnable for the Mayor to demand
> evacuation *now*, on grounds that he might have failed
> in the evacuation process earlier.
I didn't relate your post to the logic of your opponent, an issue that
I'm afraid you will have to sort out by yourselves. Maybe I
misinterpreted you because I find the discussion of responsibility of
wider general interest and with greater possible repercussions. I
apologize.
--
Mästerkatten
|
|
|
| Re: New Orleans : Interview with Mayor... [message #127361 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 15:06 |
|
Tar-Elenion wrote:
> In article <dfhep6$cjv$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
> says...
>
>>Tar-Elenion wrote:
>>
>>>In article <dfhdbe$bsv$1 [at] nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx [at] hotmail.com
>>>says...
>>>>>**WWL:** What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
>>>>>
>>>>>*NAGIN:* I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses,
>>>>>man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had,
>>>>>they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down
>>>>>here and bus people out here.
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, Mr. Mayor, here are the buses:
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc 21109012015
>>>
>>>Right where you left them to rot.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>As you see, he is not casting blame on anyone, but telling
>>>>what is needed *right now* to get control of the situation.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Don't tell me what I see. He was casting blame, I've seen the articles,
>>>and heard the interveiws.
>>
>>He might very well be casting blame, but not in the
>>quote which you picked to reply to. Do you see now?
>
>
> Nope, he was casting blame.
Okay... What would you consider to be an acceptable response
to a question "What do you need right now to get control of
this situation?"
Morgil
|
|
|
Gehe zu:
aktuelle Zeit: Mi Mai 23 22:05:48 CEST 2012
Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 0,09625 Sekunden |
