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Fantasy » alt.fan.dragons » Random ramblings...
| Random ramblings... [message #125306] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 05:39 |
|
"I want to believe"... four simple words, fourteen letters, a rather
simple statement of desire that holds all the hope in the world.
And it's true for myself, I want to believe, I want to believe there's
still some magic left in this sad benighted world, this slowly dying
lump of rock hanging alone in space. There has to be some quarter, some
small outpost that the magic still holds sway in, someplace that hasn't
been corrupted by this science nonsense that's killing the rest of the
planet.
Growing up I used to think there was magic all around, behind every tree
and under every rock in the forest, a small clearing just -had- to be a
magic circle, that small pile of stones over there had to be a marker
left by the gnomes to mark safe territory.
I used to talk softly to anything that might be listening in the forest
as I passed through, trying to let them know I meant no harm and wasn't
going to outstay my welcome and sometimes I could swear I heard, softly,
something responding, as if letting me know it was all right and I was
welcome in their place of power, I would have that feeling you'd get
when you walk into your own home, that you were safe and welcome, I
loved those woods and I think they knew it, at least that was how it
felt to me back then.
But after a while the feeling faded, I don't know if it was because I
got older or more cynical, or what, but after a time I'd go into those
woods and all it felt like was I was walking through a clump of trees,
that old feeling wasn't there anymore and I miss it, that feeling of
being surrounded by magic is gone and it feels like I lost something
precious to me and I can never get it back.
I'd do anything to get that back
....I want to believe...
--
Good journeys,
Marrock Volsung
Bearer of one Ponder Point
"Fly with me," said the dragon, "live in the depths of the waters and
soar through the sky.
We are not toys for mortals, but spirits that ride the winds and blow
the clouds along." --Lu Kuei Meng
DC2.Dw Gm L42f W T25,000l Phvwalt Sks,wl
Cbk\gr-^,fgr--,ebk%,vgr--^>bk^,sgr-^,bgr--^&1bk^,wbk [at] gr-,cag^ Bac A++ Nm
O H $+ R+++! Ac+++ J S+++! U I++ V-- Q+++! Tc+ E---!#
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #125308 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 07:11 |
|
>>"I want to believe"... four simple words, >>fourteen letters, a rather
>>simple statement of desire that holds all >>the hope in the world.
<snip>
Oh, how I sympathize with you. I feel exactly the same way about belief
and magic. It's so hard to watch it slip through your fingers as you
grow up.
As for science as a corrupting force, though (a sentiment I've heard
echoed in so many fantasy texts), I just don't think that that's the
way it has to be...it's so very possible for science and magic to exist
together. Just because something is explainable by science doesn't mean
it loses its sense of magic. Just because I know how cells reproduce
doesn't make the process of a growing plant any less wonderful and
miraculous. Just different, just clearer. There's magic in an air
conditioner or a camera or even a flip book.
That doesn't make it any less difficult to bear the pain of hoping for
a more tangible, more fantastic, showier kind of magic, though. I
completely understand that longing for a magic door to another world,
or a unicorn stepping out of the forest into a clearing, or the sudden
induction into the secret society of magic-users that waits hidden,
just under the surface of our own. And it used to be so easy to think
that it would happen one day, that eventually it would surface -
somewhere, somehow. I remember once, when I was reading The Neverending
Story late at night, something small and shiny fell out of the spine of
the book and scared me nearly to death. And I didn't look at it for a
whole minute, because as long as I didn't look there was still the
chance, just the smallest chance, that it might be some little piece of
magic that was going to take me away. Really, it was the disposable
security device to keep you from stealing the book. And I was SO
disappointed. I still am.
I want to believe, too.
Her silhouette shines in the clouds, and she rises with the sun, to
create another
~Gilded Dawn~
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------
DC2.Dw Gf L++ W T Palw Sks,wl Cau,sag Bfl A+ Fr+++^ Nm M H+ $ Fc+ R+
Ac+ J++ S U I# V+++ Q Tc+ E+
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #125311 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 08:40 |
|
On 04 Sep 2005, Marrock was found to have scratched news:X5PSe.2187
$YC1.683 [at] fe08.lga on a rock in alt.fan.dragons:
> "I want to believe"... four simple words, fourteen letters, a rather
> simple statement of desire that holds all the hope in the world.
<Claw>
> But after a while the feeling faded, I don't know if it was because I
> got older or more cynical, or what, but after a time I'd go into those
> woods and all it felt like was I was walking through a clump of trees,
> that old feeling wasn't there anymore and I miss it, that feeling of
> being surrounded by magic is gone and it feels like I lost something
> precious to me and I can never get it back.
> I'd do anything to get that back
I'd say it's because your life has become more complicated, so you just
don't have time any more. If you have the opportunity, go back to these
places, lie down in a comfortable manner, close your eyes, just
concentrate on breathing and nothing else, and once you've calmed
yourself and closed yourself off from all the pressures of the world,
slowly let yourself open up to your environment.
Don't try to force it, and if it doesn't come, then it doesn't come.
But I'd be willing to bet that you'll find that part of you again that
you've "lost".
> ...I want to believe...
I /do/ believe. Without that, I would have ended it long, long ago.
Belief can replace strength, if you let it. For a short time, at
least.....
Lord Flame Stryke
--
DC2.D~ Gm L120f60t180w W T Phawlt Sks Cbk,ere' Bfl A+++! Fr++ Nm M+ O H+
$ Fc~ R+++! Ac+++ J+ S++ U! I# V+++! Q Tc++ E++
Draco nigrum, oculi rubere, suppositus, magus.
http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/ |
http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/AFDList.html
Holder of the Scroll of Nobility from Lady Viriatha, Keeper of the Wand
of Sparklies in its case from Hex, Wielder of the Lady Viri Signature
4x8 from Ysable, Eater of the Mint Cheesecake from Whisper, Mate to Lady
Viriatha, Owner of Flame Stryke's Windex® Factory, Lord Balloonmaker,
Borrower of the Ebony Wood Fife from Luxatos, Accepter of the Small
Statue of a Green Dragon Covered in Ice Cream Toppings from Juniper,
Employer of a miniature Jester doll from SeaKing, Bearer of the Magic
Ever-Bill from SeaKing, Carrier of the gold piece from whisper: o,
Builder of Dragon Fyre Keep, First Dragon of Realism, Giver of the
Pickaxe of Icebreaking to Kalos
--
"In Boston, it is illegal to hold frog-jumping contests in
nightclubs." -- Herd Thinners
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #126786 ] |
Mo, 05 September 2005 19:01 |
|
In article <X5PSe.2187$YC1.683 [at] fe08.lga>, MarrockVolsung [at] optonline.net
says...
> "I want to believe"... four simple words, fourteen letters, a rather
> simple statement of desire that holds all the hope in the world.
>
> And it's true for myself, I want to believe, I want to believe there's
> still some magic left in this sad benighted world, this slowly dying
> lump of rock hanging alone in space. There has to be some quarter, some
> small outpost that the magic still holds sway in, someplace that hasn't
> been corrupted by this science nonsense that's killing the rest of the
> planet.
It's there. Somewhere. I don't know more than that, only that the future
is highly uncertain.
Places to still find "magic" is in energy work or hands on healing (Google
that).
> Growing up I used to think there was magic all around, behind every tree
> and under every rock in the forest, a small clearing just -had- to be a
> magic circle, that small pile of stones over there had to be a marker
> left by the gnomes to mark safe territory.
You aren't the only child to think so. Many children think the same things.
Unfortunately, I never remember thinking things like that.
> But after a while the feeling faded, I don't know if it was because I
> got older or more cynical, or what, but after a time I'd go into those
> woods and all it felt like was I was walking through a clump of trees,
> that old feeling wasn't there anymore and I miss it, that feeling of
> being surrounded by magic is gone and it feels like I lost something
> precious to me and I can never get it back.
>
> I'd do anything to get that back
Patience fiend, patience.
--
Draco18s
DC2.Dw Gm L- W- T Phvwalt Sks Cag^ Bco|# A- Fr Nu M--- O H+ $ Fo R+++ Ac+ J+
S+ I-# V++ Q++ Tc+++[C++]/Tc--- E+
"Yum!" |> v-v-v-v |>
| , , .|. | n | .|.
'. |_/| | |'''''''''''| | \
(q p),-| | HERSHEY'S | |'-._ ))
/_(/ | | CHO|"|LIT | | ) '-.___//
---W"W----'-'----'-'----'-'----------'--------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #126796 ] |
Di, 06 September 2005 04:50 |
|
Draco18s <draco18s_DOES_NOT [at] LIKE_SPAM_hotmail.com> wrote in article
<1125939726.c8ef83632a43cc701ceac73493c5069e [at] teranews>...
> In article <X5PSe.2187$YC1.683 [at] fe08.lga>, MarrockVolsung [at] optonline.net
> says...
> > "I want to believe"... four simple words, fourteen letters, a rather
> > simple statement of desire that holds all the hope in the world.
> >
snip
> >
> > I'd do anything to get that back
>
> Patience fiend, patience.
You do mean friend?
Hex)-(x
> --
> Draco18s
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #126797 ] |
Di, 06 September 2005 04:53 |
|
Hex wrote:
> Draco18s <draco18s_DOES_NOT [at] LIKE_SPAM_hotmail.com> wrote in article
> <1125939726.c8ef83632a43cc701ceac73493c5069e [at] teranews>...
>
>>In article <X5PSe.2187$YC1.683 [at] fe08.lga>, MarrockVolsung [at] optonline.net
>>says...
>>
>>>"I want to believe"... four simple words, fourteen letters, a rather
>>>simple statement of desire that holds all the hope in the world.
>>>
>
> snip
>
>>>I'd do anything to get that back
>>
>>Patience fiend, patience.
>
>
>
>
> You do mean friend?
>
>
That's alright, either one works for me.
--
Good journeys,
Marrock Volsung
Bearer of one Ponder Point
"Fly with me," said the dragon, "live in the depths of the waters and
soar through the sky.
We are not toys for mortals, but spirits that ride the winds and blow
the clouds along." --Lu Kuei Meng
DC2.Dw Gm L42f W T25,000l Phvwalt Sks,wl
Cbk\gr-^,fgr--,ebk%,vgr--^>bk^,sgr-^,bgr--^&1bk^,wbk [at] gr-,cag^ Bac A++ Nm
O H $+ R+++! Ac+++ J S+++! U I++ V-- Q+++! Tc+ E---!#
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #126798 ] |
Di, 06 September 2005 04:56 |
|
Marrock <MarrockVolsung [at] optonline.net> wrote in article
<X5PSe.2187$YC1.683 [at] fe08.lga>...
> "I want to believe"... four simple words, fourteen letters, a rather
> simple statement of desire that holds all the hope in the world.
>
> And it's true for myself, I want to believe, I want to believe there's
> still some magic left in this sad benighted world, this slowly dying
> lump of rock hanging alone in space. There has to be some quarter, some
> small outpost that the magic still holds sway in, someplace that hasn't
> been corrupted by this science nonsense that's killing the rest of the
> planet.
>
> Growing up I used to think there was magic all around, behind every tree
> and under every rock in the forest, a small clearing just -had- to be a
> magic circle, that small pile of stones over there had to be a marker
> left by the gnomes to mark safe territory.
>
> I used to talk softly to anything that might be listening in the forest
> as I passed through, trying to let them know I meant no harm and wasn't
> going to outstay my welcome and sometimes I could swear I heard, softly,
> something responding, as if letting me know it was all right and I was
> welcome in their place of power, I would have that feeling you'd get
> when you walk into your own home, that you were safe and welcome, I
> loved those woods and I think they knew it, at least that was how it
> felt to me back then.
>
> But after a while the feeling faded, I don't know if it was because I
> got older or more cynical, or what, but after a time I'd go into those
> woods and all it felt like was I was walking through a clump of trees,
> that old feeling wasn't there anymore and I miss it, that feeling of
> being surrounded by magic is gone and it feels like I lost something
> precious to me and I can never get it back.
>
> I'd do anything to get that back
>
>
> ...I want to believe...
>
> --
> Good journeys,
> Marrock Volsung
>
Magic is all around us and always with us. It comes in many forms and I
feel it often.Sometimes I must slow my human down to absorb the magic. Yet
I treasure these feelings in moments when needed most truely.Imagination,
invention and interpretation are forms of magic. The olde magiks have
weakened to allow new events into our world.
Hex)-(x
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #126799 ] |
Di, 06 September 2005 18:01 |
|
If you're looking for unicorns, gnomes, or yes, even dragons, then
you're going to be disappointed. They don't exist. Or at least not
in any tangible form. There is no real magic in the world as you
envisioned when you were a child, and I can see why you might find this
depressing.
But in truth, it's liberating.
Because what you can now as an adult appreciate is that magic is
entirely in the eye of the beholder. If you see magic in something,
then it is magic. And you can see magic anywhere. In every facet of
life, in nature, in art, in those serendipitous little coincidences
that brighten the day, even in the science you unfairly malign.
This is the nature of growing up. Reconciling the beliefs of childhood
with the realities of adulthood. Some things, some parts of yourself,
you'll find truly aren't there anymore, and it is best that you do
not try and get these things back, because everything has it's time.
But I think you'll find that many of the beliefs, many of the aspects
of life you knew as a child are not gone, they have merely changed. And
if you can reach into that enthusiasm of youth, whilst still
maintaining the critical cynicism of age, you might find the world can
be just as full of magic as when you were a child.
|
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #126800 ] |
Di, 06 September 2005 19:22 |
|
In article <01c5b28d$2fb2b160$5fd3dacf [at] newmicronpc>,
hexdragon [at] ev1.net.spamkilla says...
>
>
>
> Draco18s <draco18s_DOES_NOT [at] LIKE_SPAM_hotmail.com> wrote in article
> <1125939726.c8ef83632a43cc701ceac73493c5069e [at] teranews>...
> > In article <X5PSe.2187$YC1.683 [at] fe08.lga>, MarrockVolsung [at] optonline.net
> > says...
> > > "I want to believe"... four simple words, fourteen letters, a rather
> > > simple statement of desire that holds all the hope in the world.
> > >
> snip
> > >
> > > I'd do anything to get that back
> >
> > Patience fiend, patience.
>
>
>
> You do mean friend?
Yes, I do. That got posted before I could intercept and fix it.
--
Draco18s
DC2.Dw Gm L- W- T Phvwalt Sks Cag^ Bco|# A- Fr Nu M--- O H+ $ Fo R+++ Ac+ J+
S+ I-# V++ Q++ Tc+++[C++]/Tc--- E+
"Yum!" |> v-v-v-v |>
| , , .|. | n | .|.
'. |_/| | |'''''''''''| | \
(q p),-| | HERSHEY'S | |'-._ ))
/_(/ | | CHO|"|LIT | | ) '-.___//
---W"W----'-'----'-'----'-'----------'--------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #126801 ] |
Di, 06 September 2005 19:22 |
|
In article <ix7Te.3725$Rd7.1104 [at] fe11.lga>, MarrockVolsung [at] optonline.net
says...
> Hex wrote:
> > Draco18s <draco18s_DOES_NOT [at] LIKE_SPAM_hotmail.com> wrote in article
> > <1125939726.c8ef83632a43cc701ceac73493c5069e [at] teranews>...
> >
> >>In article <X5PSe.2187$YC1.683 [at] fe08.lga>, MarrockVolsung [at] optonline.net
> >>says...
> >>
> >>>"I want to believe"... four simple words, fourteen letters, a rather
> >>>simple statement of desire that holds all the hope in the world.
> >>>
> >
> > snip
> >
> >>>I'd do anything to get that back
> >>
> >>Patience fiend, patience.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You do mean friend?
> >
> >
>
> That's alright, either one works for me.
*Chuckles*
--
Draco18s
DC2.Dw Gm L- W- T Phvwalt Sks Cag^ Bco|# A- Fr Nu M--- O H+ $ Fo R+++ Ac+ J+
S+ I-# V++ Q++ Tc+++[C++]/Tc--- E+
"Yum!" |> v-v-v-v |>
| , , .|. | n | .|.
'. |_/| | |'''''''''''| | \
(q p),-| | HERSHEY'S | |'-._ ))
/_(/ | | CHO|"|LIT | | ) '-.___//
---W"W----'-'----'-'----'-'----------'--------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #128085 ] |
Mi, 07 September 2005 15:52 |
|
Marrock wrote:
> "I want to believe"... four simple words, fourteen letters, a rather
> simple statement of desire that holds all the hope in the world.
>
> And it's true for myself, I want to believe, I want to believe there's
> still some magic left in this sad benighted world, this slowly dying
> lump of rock hanging alone in space. There has to be some quarter, some
> small outpost that the magic still holds sway in, someplace that hasn't
> been corrupted by this science nonsense that's killing the rest of the
> planet.
>
> Growing up I used to think there was magic all around, behind every tree
> and under every rock in the forest, a small clearing just -had- to be a
> magic circle, that small pile of stones over there had to be a marker
> left by the gnomes to mark safe territory.
>
> I used to talk softly to anything that might be listening in the forest
> as I passed through, trying to let them know I meant no harm and wasn't
> going to outstay my welcome and sometimes I could swear I heard, softly,
> something responding, as if letting me know it was all right and I was
> welcome in their place of power, I would have that feeling you'd get
> when you walk into your own home, that you were safe and welcome, I
> loved those woods and I think they knew it, at least that was how it
> felt to me back then.
>
> But after a while the feeling faded, I don't know if it was because I
> got older or more cynical, or what, but after a time I'd go into those
> woods and all it felt like was I was walking through a clump of trees,
> that old feeling wasn't there anymore and I miss it, that feeling of
> being surrounded by magic is gone and it feels like I lost something
> precious to me and I can never get it back.
>
> I'd do anything to get that back
>
>
> ...I want to believe...
>
> --
> Good journeys,
> Marrock Volsung
>
> Bearer of one Ponder Point
>
> "Fly with me," said the dragon, "live in the depths of the waters and
> soar through the sky.
> We are not toys for mortals, but spirits that ride the winds and blow
> the clouds along." --Lu Kuei Meng
>
> DC2.Dw Gm L42f W T25,000l Phvwalt Sks,wl
> Cbk\gr-^,fgr--,ebk%,vgr--^>bk^,sgr-^,bgr--^&1bk^,wbk [at] gr-,cag^ Bac A++ Nm
> O H $+ R+++! Ac+++ J S+++! U I++ V-- Q+++! Tc+ E---!#
Trust me, it's still there. Magic still exists, it's all around us. The
night alone holds more magic than most have realized in a long time,
and the forests still talk if you know how to listen. All you have to
do is believe, not just want to, but truly BELIEVE. Just look, feel,
you can move it if you try, and it can move mountains. My sympathies to
you if you've forgotten how, but trust me, you can remember. I forgot
once, and the pain that caused ensured I never forgot again. Take Lord
Flame Stryke's advice, it'll work if you believe.
========================
Draklor
DC2.Dc Gm L- W- T- Phvwflt Sks C~ Bfl A Fr- Nn M+ O/ H++ $ F--o R+++
Ac+++ J++ S U- I# V+ Q? Tc+++ E+
Official lounge rat, and member of the Kendo Krew.
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #128091 ] |
Mi, 07 September 2005 17:47 |
|
You all say things like that, but it's harder than you make it out to
be. It's easy enough to pretend to believe, to give all appearances of
believing, but it's very difficult for those of us with skeptical minds
to actually come right out and do it. Seeing magic in the everyday is
fine - easy enough to be impressed, even filled with wonder, at some of
the things we see around us, but actually believing in magic in the
fantastic sense - nearly impossible. It's like trying to believe in
god. Which, for me, as a skeptic who requires solid proof, is extremely
difficult. Don't ask me to have faith. It's not that easy.
Her silhouette shines in the clouds, and she rises with the sun, to
create another
~Gilded Dawn~
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------
DC2.Dw Gf L++ W T Palw Sks,wl Cau,sag Bfl A+ Fr+++^ Nm M H+ $ Fc+ R+
Ac+ J++ S U I# V+++ Q Tc+ E+
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #128092 ] |
Mi, 07 September 2005 18:37 |
|
You can't force yourself to hold a belief and you shouldn't try. If you
don't truly believe in magic in the fantastical sense then don't beat
yourself up over it, it's merely something you have to deal with.
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #128104 ] |
Do, 08 September 2005 08:26 |
|
On 06 Sep 2005, dgorman88 [at] aol.com was found to have scratched
news:1126021798.609144.189140 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com on a rock in
alt.fan.dragons:
> If you're looking for unicorns, gnomes, or yes, even dragons, then
> you're going to be disappointed. They don't exist. Or at least not
> in any tangible form. There is no real magic in the world as you
> envisioned when you were a child, and I can see why you might find
> this depressing.
I must break in here and say that if this is your belief, you'll never
see magic. Magic isn't something that needs to be seen to be believed,
it's something that needs to be believed to be seen.
> But in truth, it's liberating.
> Because what you can now as an adult appreciate is that magic is
> entirely in the eye of the beholder. If you see magic in something,
> then it is magic. And you can see magic anywhere. In every facet of
> life, in nature, in art, in those serendipitous little coincidences
> that brighten the day, even in the science you unfairly malign.
> This is the nature of growing up. Reconciling the beliefs of childhood
> with the realities of adulthood. Some things, some parts of yourself,
> you'll find truly aren't there anymore, and it is best that you do
> not try and get these things back, because everything has it's time.
My childhood was a long, long time ago, and other than my mate, I still
have everything from my childhood, both the good and the bad, the pain
and the happiness. And if I ever lose any of that, I'm sorry to say, I
wouldn't be myself. I tried to lose some of my pain at one time.
Whether I did this consciously or unconsciously I don't know. But my
god made me remember it. And despite all the pain it brought back to
me, it also brought me back myself.
> But I think you'll find that many of the beliefs, many of the aspects
> of life you knew as a child are not gone, they have merely changed.
> And if you can reach into that enthusiasm of youth, whilst still
> maintaining the critical cynicism of age, you might find the world can
> be just as full of magic as when you were a child.
This seems to contradict everything you just said. "Some things, some
parts of yourself, you'll find truly aren't there anymore" and "Many of
the aspects of life you knew as a child are not gone." Personally, I
agree with this last part, but in fact, nothing is lost from your past.
Even if you can't recall something, it's merely forgotten, not lost.
Lord Flame Stryke
--
DC2.D~ Gm L120f60t180w W T Phawlt Sks Cbk,ere' Bfl A+++! Fr++ Nm M+ O H+
$ Fc~ R+++! Ac+++ J+ S++ U! I# V+++! Q Tc++ E++ Draco nigrum, oculi
rubere, suppositus, magus. http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/ |
http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/AFDList.html Holder of the Scroll
of Nobility from Lady Viriatha, Keeper of the Wand of Sparklies in its
case from Hex, Wielder of the Lady Viri Signature 4x8 from Ysable, Eater
of the Mint Cheesecake from Whisper, Mate to Lady Viriatha, Owner of
Flame Stryke's Windex® Factory, Lord Balloonmaker, Borrower of the Ebony
Wood Fife from Luxatos, Accepter of the Small Statue of a Green Dragon
Covered in Ice Cream Toppings from Juniper, Employer of a miniature
Jester doll from SeaKing, Bearer of the Magic Ever-Bill from SeaKing,
Carrier of the gold piece from whisper: o, Builder of Dragon Fyre Keep,
First Dragon of Realism, Giver of the Pickaxe of Icebreaking to Kalos
--
"Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is
the study of carbon compounds that crawl." -- Mike Adams
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #128105 ] |
Do, 08 September 2005 08:34 |
|
On 07 Sep 2005, Gilded Dawn was found to have scratched
news:1126108052.225998.149540 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com on a rock in
alt.fan.dragons:
> You all say things like that, but it's harder than you make it out to
> be. It's easy enough to pretend to believe, to give all appearances of
> believing, but it's very difficult for those of us with skeptical
> minds to actually come right out and do it. Seeing magic in the
> everyday is fine - easy enough to be impressed, even filled with
> wonder, at some of the things we see around us, but actually believing
> in magic in the fantastic sense - nearly impossible. It's like trying
> to believe in god. Which, for me, as a skeptic who requires solid
> proof, is extremely difficult. Don't ask me to have faith. It's not
> that easy.
I never claimed anything was easy. Take the way I quit smoking, for
example. I /knew/ I wasn't addicted. Sounds easy, doesn't it. It's
not. Not even close to easy. If there's even the tiniest speck of
doubt, it will undermine everything you try to believe in, and you'll
either think you're addicted, or you'll be afraid you're addicted.
Either way, that will make you addicted.
The easy part is the believing. The hard part is the hunting down every
tiny particle of yourself that doesn't believe. What I suggested won't
instantly make you a believer. But it /will/ start you down the path to
tracking down those tiny parts of yourself, and either removing them
from your path, or changing them. Both are similarly difficult, but it
gets easier as you go. The more you remove, the less there are in your
path, and so your hunt grows stronger.
This lying with your eyes closed may take an hour, it may take a day, it
may take a week, it might even take a million years or more. I don't
know how strongly or weakly you feel about anything, so I can't judge.
And I don't have the time to do this myself, although I really wish I
did, since there are a lot of things I need to clarify in my own life.
But even if all you get is a sense of peace, well, look at the world
around you and tell me if peace isn't a great accomplishment in itself.
Lord Flame Stryke
--
DC2.D~ Gm L120f60t180w W T Phawlt Sks Cbk,ere' Bfl A+++! Fr++ Nm M+ O H+
$ Fc~ R+++! Ac+++ J+ S++ U! I# V+++! Q Tc++ E++
Draco nigrum, oculi rubere, suppositus, magus.
http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/ |
http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/AFDList.html
Holder of the Scroll of Nobility from Lady Viriatha, Keeper of the Wand
of Sparklies in its case from Hex, Wielder of the Lady Viri Signature
4x8 from Ysable, Eater of the Mint Cheesecake from Whisper, Mate to Lady
Viriatha, Owner of Flame Stryke's Windex® Factory, Lord Balloonmaker,
Borrower of the Ebony Wood Fife from Luxatos, Accepter of the Small
Statue of a Green Dragon Covered in Ice Cream Toppings from Juniper,
Employer of a miniature Jester doll from SeaKing, Bearer of the Magic
Ever-Bill from SeaKing, Carrier of the gold piece from whisper: o,
Builder of Dragon Fyre Keep, First Dragon of Realism, Giver of the
Pickaxe of Icebreaking to Kalos
--
"How much pi could an r² pi if an r² could pi pi?" -- Flame Stryke
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #128112 ] |
Fr, 09 September 2005 04:27 |
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>> If you're looking for unicorns, gnomes, or yes, even dragons, then
> >you're going to be disappointed. They don't exist. Or at least not
> >in any tangible form. There is no real magic in the world as you
> >envisioned when you were a child, and I can see why you might find
> >this depressing.
>I must break in here and say that if this is your belief, you'll never
>see magic. Magic isn't something that needs to be seen to be believed,
>it's something that needs to be believed to be seen.
I'm not going to see magic because magic in the sense you mean it
does not exist, and this kind of doublethink attempt to explain that
away violates the first principle of scientific inquiry. Something must
be provable in repeatable conditions to people who aren't already
convinced of the claim. That's how we get objectivity. Of course if
you are convinced of the existence of magic you will see magic, just as
if you're convinced of flat earth theory you'll see a flat earth.
But that doesn't change the fact that the earth is round, and it
doesn't change the fact that it is not populated by unicorns.
> >But in truth, it's liberating.
> >Because what you can now as an adult appreciate is that magic is
> >entirely in the eye of the beholder. If you see magic in something,
> >then it is magic. And you can see magic anywhere. In every facet of
> >life, in nature, in art, in those serendipitous little coincidences
> >that brighten the day, even in the science you unfairly malign.
> >This is the nature of growing up. Reconciling the beliefs of childhood
> >with the realities of adulthood. Some things, some parts of yourself,
> >you'll find truly aren't there anymore, and it is best that you do
> >not try and get these things back, because everything has it's time.
>My childhood was a long time ago,
Let me guess, you're thousands of years old? Millions?
For some odd reason those who believe they are
dragons/vampires/unicorns (in addition to generally sharing exactly the
same back story: "I was unbelievably powerful and did lots of cool
shit, something tragic and really overdramatic happened, now I'm
trapped in human form") seem to without exception claim some
ridiculously inflated age. Just for once I want to see someone claiming
to be a dragon less than a few hundred years old.
It'd make a nice change.
>> But I think you'll find that many of the beliefs, many of the aspects
>> of life you knew as a child are not gone, they have merely changed.
> >And if you can reach into that enthusiasm of youth, whilst still
> >maintaining the critical cynicism of age, you might find the world can
> >be just as full of magic as when you were a child.
>This seems to contradict everything you just said. "Some things, some
>parts of yourself, you'll find truly aren't there anymore" and "Many of
>the aspects of life you knew as a child are not gone."
There's no contradiction, some things remain, some will be gone, and
some will merely have changed over time into something different.
That's the nature of growing up.
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #128113 ] |
Fr, 09 September 2005 08:03 |
|
In article <1126232858.930351.150030 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
dgorman88 [at] aol.com says...
> >My childhood was a long time ago,
>
> Let me guess, you're thousands of years old? Millions?
He can give you an exact number, but he's just past 3 million, yes.
> For some odd reason those who believe they are
> dragons/vampires/unicorns (in addition to generally sharing exactly the
> same back story: "I was unbelievably powerful and did lots of cool
> shit, something tragic and really overdramatic happened, now I'm
> trapped in human form") seem to without exception claim some
> ridiculously inflated age. Just for once I want to see someone claiming
> to be a dragon less than a few hundred years old.
>
> It'd make a nice change.
*Raises a paw*
I don't know much about my past (I.E. zippo in the memory dept.), but I'd
take a gander at less than a hundred in that life.
--
Draco18s
DC2.Dw Gm L- W- T Phvwalt Sks Cag^ Bco|# A- Fr Nu M--- O H+ $ Fo R+++ Ac+ J+
S+ I-# V++ Q++ Tc+++[C++]/Tc--- E+
"Yum!" |> v-v-v-v |>
| , , .|. | n | .|.
'. |_/| | |'''''''''''| | \
(q p),-| | HERSHEY'S | |'-._ ))
/_(/ | | CHO|"|LIT | | ) '-.___//
---W"W----'-'----'-'----'-'----------'--------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #128114 ] |
Fr, 09 September 2005 08:45 |
|
On 08 Sep 2005, dgorman88 [at] aol.com was found to have scratched
news:1126232858.930351.150030 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com on a rock in
alt.fan.dragons:
>>> If you're looking for unicorns, gnomes, or yes, even dragons, then
>> >you're going to be disappointed. They don't exist. Or at least not
>> >in any tangible form. There is no real magic in the world as you
>> >envisioned when you were a child, and I can see why you might find
>> >this depressing.
>>I must break in here and say that if this is your belief, you'll never
>>see magic. Magic isn't something that needs to be seen to be
>>believed, it's something that needs to be believed to be seen.
> I'm not going to see magic because magic in the sense you mean it
> does not exist, and this kind of doublethink attempt to explain that
> away violates the first principle of scientific inquiry. Something
I feel sorry for you. Stating directly that magic doesn't exist, and
doing everything you can to convince yourself that magic doesn't
exist..... I can't even conceive of the mere notion of living life so
bereft of everything.....
> must be provable in repeatable conditions to people who aren't already
> convinced of the claim. That's how we get objectivity. Of course if
> you are convinced of the existence of magic you will see magic, just
> as if you're convinced of flat earth theory you'll see a flat earth.
> But that doesn't change the fact that the earth is round, and it
> doesn't change the fact that it is not populated by unicorns.
Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there. For
you, unicorns will never stride by. I don't say that because there will
never be unicorns around you, but that you'll choose to ignore them from
so deep down inside that you'll look right through them.
>> >But in truth, it's liberating.
>> >Because what you can now as an adult appreciate is that magic is
>> >entirely in the eye of the beholder. If you see magic in something,
>> >then it is magic. And you can see magic anywhere. In every facet of
>> >life, in nature, in art, in those serendipitous little coincidences
>> >that brighten the day, even in the science you unfairly malign.
>> >This is the nature of growing up. Reconciling the beliefs of
>> >childhood with the realities of adulthood. Some things, some parts
>> >of yourself, you'll find truly aren't there anymore, and it is best
>> >that you do not try and get these things back, because everything
>> >has it's time.
>>My childhood was a long time ago,
> Let me guess, you're thousands of years old? Millions?
A little over 3 million, yes.
> For some odd reason those who believe they are
> dragons/vampires/unicorns (in addition to generally sharing exactly
> the same back story: "I was unbelievably powerful and did lots of cool
> shit, something tragic and really overdramatic happened, now I'm
> trapped in human form") seem to without exception claim some
> ridiculously inflated age. Just for once I want to see someone
> claiming to be a dragon less than a few hundred years old.
You should perhaps read the newsgroups you're trying to upset. Both
those not being supreme beings, and those not being millions of years
old post here on a regular basis. I can't help who I was. And I'm not
going to inconvenience myself to try for someone like you who could
never understand the way I feel, not because I can't explain it, but
because you'd never hear me.
>>> But I think you'll find that many of the beliefs, many of the
>>> aspects of life you knew as a child are not gone, they have merely
>>> changed.
>> >And if you can reach into that enthusiasm of youth, whilst still
>> >maintaining the critical cynicism of age, you might find the world
>> >can be just as full of magic as when you were a child.
>>This seems to contradict everything you just said. "Some things, some
>>parts of yourself, you'll find truly aren't there anymore" and "Many
>>of the aspects of life you knew as a child are not gone."
> There's no contradiction, some things remain, some will be gone, and
> some will merely have changed over time into something different.
> That's the nature of growing up.
I say nothing will be gone. As I said before, if you lose a part of
yourself, you'll no longer be yourself. But just because you can't
remember something doesn't mean it's gone.
Lord Flame Stryke
--
DC2.D~ Gm L120f60t180w W T Phawlt Sks Cbk,ere' Bfl A+++! Fr++ Nm M+ O H+
$ Fc~ R+++! Ac+++ J+ S++ U! I# V+++! Q Tc++ E++ Draco nigrum, oculi
rubere, suppositus, magus. http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/ |
http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/AFDList.html Holder of the Scroll
of Nobility from Lady Viriatha, Keeper of the Wand of Sparklies in its
case from Hex, Wielder of the Lady Viri Signature 4x8 from Ysable, Eater
of the Mint Cheesecake from Whisper, Mate to Lady Viriatha, Owner of
Flame Stryke's Windex® Factory, Lord Balloonmaker, Borrower of the Ebony
Wood Fife from Luxatos, Accepter of the Small Statue of a Green Dragon
Covered in Ice Cream Toppings from Juniper, Employer of a miniature
Jester doll from SeaKing, Bearer of the Magic Ever-Bill from SeaKing,
Carrier of the gold piece from whisper: o, Builder of Dragon Fyre Keep,
First Dragon of Realism, Giver of the Pickaxe of Icebreaking to Kalos
--
"Save yourself! Reboot in 5 seconds!" -- Herd Thinners
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129860 ] |
Fr, 09 September 2005 14:49 |
|
On a dark and stormy night, dgorman88 [at] aol.com whispered:
> Something
> must be provable in repeatable conditions to people who aren't already
> convinced of the claim. That's how we get objectivity.
Of course, this ignores the major flaw in this assumption. The flaw
being, the scientific method fails completely when faced with issues
beyond our collective ability to perceive and affect reality. It's
simple, and sublime.
Just a Monkey,
Scott,
--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129864 ] |
Fr, 09 September 2005 23:19 |
|
>> I'm not going to see magic because magic in the sense you mean it
>> does not exist, and this kind of doublethink attempt to explain that
>> away violates the first principle of scientific inquiry. Something
> I feel sorry for you. Stating directly that magic doesn't exist, and
> doing everything you can to convince yourself that magic doesn't
> exist..... I can't even conceive of the mere notion of living life so
> bereft of everything.....
I'm not attempting to convince myself of anything, merely working on
what has been the basis of scientific inquiry and critical thinking for
thousands of years. And I'm not sure what you consider bereft, I find
the world quite full and beautiful enough without self-delusion.
>> must be provable in repeatable conditions to people who aren't already
>> convinced of the claim. That's how we get objectivity. Of course if
>> you are convinced of the existence of magic you will see magic, just
>> as if you're convinced of flat earth theory you'll see a flat earth.
>> But that doesn't change the fact that the earth is round, and it
>> doesn't change the fact that it is not populated by unicorns.
> Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there. For
> you, unicorns will never stride by. I don't say that because there will
> never be unicorns around you, but that you'll choose to ignore them from
> so deep down inside that you'll look right through them.
Why would I look through them? I have no particular vested interest in
unicorns existing or not existing, in fact unicorns existing would be
very cool, I merely work on the available evidence.
>>> My childhood was a long time ago,
>> Let me guess, you're thousands of years old? Millions?
> A little over 3 million, yes.
Well of course.
>> For some odd reason those who believe they are
>> dragons/vampires/unicorns (in addition to generally sharing exactly
>> the same back story: "I was unbelievably powerful and did lots of cool
>> shit, something tragic and really overdramatic happened, now I'm
>> trapped in human form") seem to without exception claim some
>> ridiculously inflated age. Just for once I want to see someone
>> claiming to be a dragon less than a few hundred years old.
> You should perhaps read the newsgroups you're trying to upset. Both
> those not being supreme beings, and those not being millions of years
> old post here on a regular basis.
I've been reading afd on and off for about five years now, and I'm
not trying to upset anyone. I'm well aware there are those who post
here who do not claim to be supreme beings, or to be unbelievably
ancient, but there's no shortage of those who do and their tendency
to follow the same clich=E9d fantasy storyline, to give themselves the
same god-like powers, and the same unbelievable longevity does
sometimes verge on the ridiculous.
> I can't help who I was. And I'm not
> going to inconvenience myself to try for someone like you who could
> never understand the way I feel, not because I can't explain it, but
> because you'd never hear me.
Ah, "you could never understand the way I feel", the familiar call
of self-righteous teenagers everywhere.
Perhaps your problem is not that I wouldn't hear you or that I
couldn't understand, but rather that I wouldn't unquestioningly
accept everything you say. After all, all I am suggesting is that the
principles of scientific inquiry and critical thinking be applied to
your claims. Is that really so bad?
>> There's no contradiction, some things remain, some will be gone, and
>> some will merely have changed over time into something different.
>> That's the nature of growing up.
> I say nothing will be gone. As I said before, if you lose a part of
> yourself, you'll no longer be yourself. But just because you can't
> remember something doesn't mean it's gone.
People lose and gain things all the time. We change. Does that mean we
aren't still ourselves? Of course not, merely that "ourselves" a
very nebulous and strange thing indeed. The desire to hold onto things,
to not accept the change, is understandable. But you'll find a lot
more peace comes if you can learn to embrace and accept such changes.
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129865 ] |
Fr, 09 September 2005 23:27 |
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And Scott, I understand what you're saying.
When you start talking about things beyond our abillity to perceive
reality, it really becomes a matter of faith rather than fact. I have
no problem with people having faith in magic or in dragons in a
non-observable, non-physical way. But when someone makes the claim that
they can use magic to have a real effect on the world, or that dragons
exist in a physical sense, there's a burden of proof, and the proof
quite simply isn't there.
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129869 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 02:12 |
|
In article <1126300778.072207.49270 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, dgorman88
[at] aol.com says...
> >> But that doesn't change the fact that the earth is round, and it
> >> doesn't change the fact that it is not populated by unicorns.
>
> > Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there. For
> > you, unicorns will never stride by. I don't say that because there will
> > never be unicorns around you, but that you'll choose to ignore them from
> > so deep down inside that you'll look right through them.
>
> Why would I look through them? I have no particular vested interest in
> unicorns existing or not existing, in fact unicorns existing would be
> very cool, I merely work on the available evidence.
You might not look through them, but you certainly won't see a unicorn.
You'll see a white horse. Or whatever color it happens to be.
--
Draco18s
DC2.Dw Gm L- W- T Phvwalt Sks Cag^ Bco|# A- Fr Nu M--- O H+ $ Fo R+++ Ac+ J+
S+ I-# V++ Q++ Tc+++[C++]/Tc--- E+
"Yum!" |> v-v-v-v |>
| , , .|. | n | .|.
'. |_/| | |'''''''''''| | \
(q p),-| | HERSHEY'S | |'-._ ))
/_(/ | | CHO|"|LIT | | ) '-.___//
---W"W----'-'----'-'----'-'----------'--------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129871 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 02:19 |
|
In article <1126301276.488316.157110 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
dgorman88 [at] aol.com says...
> And Scott, I understand what you're saying.
>
> When you start talking about things beyond our abillity to perceive
> reality, it really becomes a matter of faith rather than fact. I have
> no problem with people having faith in magic or in dragons in a
> non-observable, non-physical way. But when someone makes the claim that
> they can use magic to have a real effect on the world, or that dragons
> exist in a physical sense, there's a burden of proof, and the proof
> quite simply isn't there.
I have talked with animals, cats, dogs, horses...
I have seen healing done on a body without the person having been touched...
I have been subject to temporal distortion (I.E. short distance time
travel)...
These are not faith to me, I do not believe them. I KNOW. I have done it.
And so have others.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hands+on+healing&am p;btnG=Google+Search
--
Draco18s
DC2.Dw Gm L- W- T Phvwalt Sks Cag^ Bco|# A- Fr Nu M--- O H+ $ Fo R+++ Ac+ J+
S+ I-# V++ Q++ Tc+++[C++]/Tc--- E+
"Yum!" |> v-v-v-v |>
| , , .|. | n | .|.
'. |_/| | |'''''''''''| | \
(q p),-| | HERSHEY'S | |'-._ ))
/_(/ | | CHO|"|LIT | | ) '-.___//
---W"W----'-'----'-'----'-'----------'--------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129872 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 03:17 |
|
On a dark and stormy night, dgorman88 [at] aol.com whispered:
> And Scott, I understand what you're saying.
>
> When you start talking about things beyond our abillity to perceive
> reality, it really becomes a matter of faith rather than fact. I have
> no problem with people having faith in magic or in dragons in a
> non-observable, non-physical way. But when someone makes the claim
> that they can use magic to have a real effect on the world, or that
> dragons exist in a physical sense, there's a burden of proof, and the
> proof quite simply isn't there.
It's also a burden of proof to demonstrate it doesn't work; the person
having faith it isn't factual must be able to demonstrate impossibility
as much as the person with faith it is factual must be able to
demonstrate possibility. All any particular test can show, is
individual capacity.
Just a Monkey,
Scott,
--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129873 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 05:28 |
|
Draco18s wrote:
> In article <1126301276.488316.157110 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> dgorman88 [at] aol.com says...
>
>>And Scott, I understand what you're saying.
>>
>>When you start talking about things beyond our abillity to perceive
>>reality, it really becomes a matter of faith rather than fact. I have
>>no problem with people having faith in magic or in dragons in a
>>non-observable, non-physical way. But when someone makes the claim that
>>they can use magic to have a real effect on the world, or that dragons
>>exist in a physical sense, there's a burden of proof, and the proof
>>quite simply isn't there.
>
>
> I have talked with animals, cats, dogs, horses...
Can you do this and prove that you've done it? If so I know somebody
willing to give you $1 million real US dollars, no kidding. See his web
site at www.randi.org
> I have seen healing done on a body without the person having been touched...
> I have been subject to temporal distortion (I.E. short distance time
> travel)...
> These are not faith to me, I do not believe them. I KNOW. I have done it.
> And so have others.
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hands+on+healing&am p;btnG=Google+Search
--
-Kalos
Peace and peppermint cheesecake to all.
Bearer of one Pickaxe of Icebreaking from Flame Stryke.
DC2.Dw Gm L- W-- T Phwaplt Sks,wl,bh Cja-\bz,v~ Bfl A- Fr- N? M--- O H++
$~ F+~ R* Ac++ J+ S---! U- I---# V-- Q---! Tc++[QBASIC] E+
The Dragon Classification Project calls me a: class Xenosauria
(xeno=strange, saur=lizard), subclass Pterosauria (Lizard Dragon), order
Squamadraconia (Scales Dragon), suborder Draconia (Western Dragon),
family Pterodraconia (General Western Dragon), genus [unnamed; finned,
spiked, serpentine in width], species {genus name} parvus (parvus=small)
See my art at http://kaloskalyre.deviantart.com/
"Boy, n.: A noise with dirt on it." -Herd Thinners
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129874 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 05:40 |
|
Draco18s wrote:
>I have talked with animals, cats, dogs, horses...
>I have seen healing done on a body without the >person having been touched...
>I have been subject to temporal distortion (I.E. >short distance time
>travel)...
>These are not faith to me, I do not believe them. >I KNOW. I have done it.
I'm sure you believe you have done these things, but can you present a
single shed of evidence for these things you claim to know as fact?
>And so have others.
http://www.google.com/search?h l=en&q=hands+on+healing&btnG=G
oogle+Search
And others still have disproved such claims.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=hands+on+he aling+debunked&btnG=Search
Scott L wrote:
>It's also a burden of proof to demonstrate it >doesn't work; the person
>having faith it isn't factual must be able to >demonstrate impossibility
Proving a negative, any negative, has long been accepted as a logical
fallacy and in some cases nigh on impossible. The burden of proof is
always entirely on the person making the claim, whether that be the
prosecution in a court case, a scientist putting forward a new theory
or someone on the internet claiming to be a dragon.
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129875 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 06:46 |
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In article <-tidnSzxQJN6z7_eRVn-gg [at] comcast.com>, kaloskalyre [at] comcast.net
says...
> Draco18s wrote:
> > In article <1126301276.488316.157110 [at] g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > dgorman88 [at] aol.com says...
> >
> >>And Scott, I understand what you're saying.
> >>
> >>When you start talking about things beyond our abillity to perceive
> >>reality, it really becomes a matter of faith rather than fact. I have
> >>no problem with people having faith in magic or in dragons in a
> >>non-observable, non-physical way. But when someone makes the claim that
> >>they can use magic to have a real effect on the world, or that dragons
> >>exist in a physical sense, there's a burden of proof, and the proof
> >>quite simply isn't there.
> >
> >
> > I have talked with animals, cats, dogs, horses...
>
> Can you do this and prove that you've done it? If so I know somebody
> willing to give you $1 million real US dollars, no kidding. See his web
> site at www.randi.org
I'm curious as to how a test for talking with animals could be set up.
And as for my submitting myself. I'd rather not because I'm not very good
at doing it, I can get answers some of the time, but certainly not enough to
pass any kind of proof test.
--
Draco18s
DC2.Dw Gm L- W- T Phvwalt Sks Cag^ Bco|# A- Fr Nu M--- O H+ $ Fo R+++ Ac+ J+
S+ I-# V++ Q++ Tc+++[C++]/Tc--- E+
"Yum!" |> v-v-v-v |>
| , , .|. | n | .|.
'. |_/| | |'''''''''''| | \
(q p),-| | HERSHEY'S | |'-._ ))
/_(/ | | CHO|"|LIT | | ) '-.___//
---W"W----'-'----'-'----'-'----------'--------------
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129876 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 06:47 |
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In article <1126323634.771080.145720 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
dgorman88 [at] aol.com says...
> Draco18s wrote:
>
> >I have talked with animals, cats, dogs, horses...
> >I have seen healing done on a body without the >person having been touched...
> >I have been subject to temporal distortion (I.E. >short distance time
> >travel)...
> >These are not faith to me, I do not believe them. >I KNOW. I have done it.
>
> I'm sure you believe you have done these things, but can you present a
> single shed of evidence for these things you claim to know as fact?
>
> >And so have others.
> http://www.google.com/search?h l=en&q=hands+on+healing&btnG=G
> oogle+Search
>
> And others still have disproved such claims.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=hands+on+he aling+debunked&btnG=Search
I think that your reply to Scott is my reply to you. You can't prove that
it doesn't happen based on partial results.
> Scott L wrote:
>
> >It's also a burden of proof to demonstrate it >doesn't work; the person
> >having faith it isn't factual must be able to >demonstrate impossibility
>
> Proving a negative, any negative, has long been accepted as a logical
> fallacy and in some cases nigh on impossible. The burden of proof is
> always entirely on the person making the claim, whether that be the
> prosecution in a court case, a scientist putting forward a new theory
> or someone on the internet claiming to be a dragon.
>
>
--
Draco18s
DC2.Dw Gm L- W- T Phvwalt Sks Cag^ Bco|# A- Fr Nu M--- O H+ $ Fo R+++ Ac+ J+
S+ I-# V++ Q++ Tc+++[C++]/Tc--- E+
"Yum!" |> v-v-v-v |>
| , , .|. | n | .|.
'. |_/| | |'''''''''''| | \
(q p),-| | HERSHEY'S | |'-._ ))
/_(/ | | CHO|"|LIT | | ) '-.___//
---W"W----'-'----'-'----'-'----------'--------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129877 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 07:26 |
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Draco18s wrote:
....
>>>>And Scott, I understand what you're saying.
>>>>
>>>>When you start talking about things beyond our abillity to perceive
>>>>reality, it really becomes a matter of faith rather than fact. I have
>>>>no problem with people having faith in magic or in dragons in a
>>>>non-observable, non-physical way. But when someone makes the claim that
>>>>they can use magic to have a real effect on the world, or that dragons
>>>>exist in a physical sense, there's a burden of proof, and the proof
>>>>quite simply isn't there.
>>>
>>>
>>>I have talked with animals, cats, dogs, horses...
>>
>>Can you do this and prove that you've done it? If so I know somebody
>>willing to give you $1 million real US dollars, no kidding. See his web
>>site at www.randi.org
>
>
> I'm curious as to how a test for talking with animals could be set up.
> And as for my submitting myself. I'd rather not because I'm not very good
> at doing it, I can get answers some of the time, but certainly not enough to
> pass any kind of proof test.
>
I'm curious too. Really it depends on what kinds of things you talk
about. If they can identify an object and tell you what it is, for
example, you could have somebody put the object in another room, have
the animal go into said room and see what the object is, and then have
him/her come back and tell you. If on the other hand you generally get
things like "I'm hungry"/"I Want to play"/"Who are these strange
people?", that would be harder to design a test for because they can
often be understood simply by watching the animal's actions. This is
assuming, of course, that you know what general kind of answer you'll
get. If you don't know that, then designing a test would be nearly, if
not totally, impossible.
--
-Kalos
Peace and peppermint cheesecake to all.
Bearer of one Pickaxe of Icebreaking from Flame Stryke.
DC2.Dw Gm L- W-- T Phwaplt Sks,wl,bh Cja-\bz,v~ Bfl A- Fr- N? M--- O H++
$~ F+~ R* Ac++ J+ S---! U- I---# V-- Q---! Tc++[QBASIC] E+
The Dragon Classification Project calls me a: class Xenosauria
(xeno=strange, saur=lizard), subclass Pterosauria (Lizard Dragon), order
Squamadraconia (Scales Dragon), suborder Draconia (Western Dragon),
family Pterodraconia (General Western Dragon), genus [unnamed; finned,
spiked, serpentine in width], species {genus name} parvus (parvus=small)
See my art at http://kaloskalyre.deviantart.com/
"Boy, n.: A noise with dirt on it." -Herd Thinners
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129878 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 10:12 |
|
On 09 Sep 2005, dgorman88 [at] aol.com was found to have scratched
news:1126300778.072207.49270 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com on a rock in
alt.fan.dragons:
>> I feel sorry for you. Stating directly that magic doesn't exist, and
>> doing everything you can to convince yourself that magic doesn't
>> exist..... I can't even conceive of the mere notion of living life
>> so bereft of everything.....
> I'm not attempting to convince myself of anything, merely working on
> what has been the basis of scientific inquiry and critical thinking
> for thousands of years. And I'm not sure what you consider bereft, I
> find the world quite full and beautiful enough without self-delusion.
Is that what I have? Self-delusion?
>> Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there.
>> For you, unicorns will never stride by. I don't say that because
>> there will never be unicorns around you, but that you'll choose to
>> ignore them from so deep down inside that you'll look right through
>> them.
> Why would I look through them? I have no particular vested interest in
> unicorns existing or not existing, in fact unicorns existing would be
> very cool, I merely work on the available evidence.
I think there's a line from "The God that Failed" by Metallica that can
be adapted to your situation. "Hearing only what you want to hear and
knowing only what's you've heard." In your case, it's visual.
>> You should perhaps read the newsgroups you're trying to upset. Both
>> those not being supreme beings, and those not being millions of years
>> old post here on a regular basis.
> I've been reading afd on and off for about five years now, and I'm
> not trying to upset anyone. I'm well aware there are those who post
> here who do not claim to be supreme beings, or to be unbelievably
> ancient, but there's no shortage of those who do and their tendency
> to follow the same clichéd fantasy storyline, to give themselves the
> same god-like powers, and the same unbelievable longevity does
> sometimes verge on the ridiculous.
You shouldn't make blanket claims to that effect, then. Asking to see
just one person who doesn't consider themselves all powerful when you
then claim you've seen them isn't scientific, either, you know.
>> I can't help who I was. And I'm not
>> going to inconvenience myself to try for someone like you who could
>> never understand the way I feel, not because I can't explain it, but
>> because you'd never hear me.
> Ah, "you could never understand the way I feel", the familiar call
> of self-righteous teenagers everywhere.
Rwally. Teenager. You obviously know nothing about me, or about my
human host. It's long past its teenage years.
> Perhaps your problem is not that I wouldn't hear you or that I
> couldn't understand, but rather that I wouldn't unquestioningly
> accept everything you say. After all, all I am suggesting is that the
> principles of scientific inquiry and critical thinking be applied to
> your claims. Is that really so bad?
I've noticed that magic and science tend to be mutually exclusive. As
someone once asked on this newsgroup, could I magically recreate a
circuit that uses components to manipulate a voltage or current, and I
figured I could create something that achieves a desired outcome, but
not with circuits.
Also, the Law of Conservation of Energy says that energy can be neither
created nor destroyed, merely changed; and the Theory of Relativity says
that matter and energy are interchangeable. Meaning that if magical
energy followed said scientific theory, whenever I created something,
the magical energy would be lessened, whereas it stays the same, and in
some cases gets stronger.
>> I say nothing will be gone. As I said before, if you lose a part of
>> yourself, you'll no longer be yourself. But just because you can't
>> remember something doesn't mean it's gone.
> People lose and gain things all the time. We change. Does that mean we
> aren't still ourselves? Of course not, merely that "ourselves" a
> very nebulous and strange thing indeed. The desire to hold onto
> things, to not accept the change, is understandable. But you'll find a
> lot more peace comes if you can learn to embrace and accept such
> changes.
I don't oppose change. Nor do I say things won't change. I merely say
that things won't be lost.
Lord Flame Stryke
--
DC2.D~ Gm L120f60t180w W T Phawlt Sks Cbk,ere' Bfl A+++! Fr++ Nm M+ O H+
$ Fc~ R+++! Ac+++ J+ S++ U! I# V+++! Q Tc++ E++ Draco nigrum, oculi
rubere, suppositus, magus. http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/ |
http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/AFDList.html Holder of the Scroll
of Nobility from Lady Viriatha, Keeper of the Wand of Sparklies in its
case from Hex, Wielder of the Lady Viri Signature 4x8 from Ysable, Eater
of the Mint Cheesecake from Whisper, Mate to Lady Viriatha, Owner of
Flame Stryke's Windex® Factory, Lord Balloonmaker, Borrower of the Ebony
Wood Fife from Luxatos, Accepter of the Small Statue of a Green Dragon
Covered in Ice Cream Toppings from Juniper, Employer of a miniature
Jester doll from SeaKing, Bearer of the Magic Ever-Bill from SeaKing,
Carrier of the gold piece from whisper: o, Builder of Dragon Fyre Keep,
First Dragon of Realism, Giver of the Pickaxe of Icebreaking to Kalos
--
"Checkuary, n: The thirteenth month of the year. Begins New Year's Day
and ends when a person stops absentmindedly writing the old year on his
checks." -- Herd Thinners
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129879 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 10:17 |
|
On 09 Sep 2005, dgorman88 [at] aol.com was found to have scratched
news:1126323634.771080.145720 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com on a rock in
alt.fan.dragons:
>>It's also a burden of proof to demonstrate it >doesn't work; the
>>person having faith it isn't factual must be able to >demonstrate
>>impossibility
> Proving a negative, any negative, has long been accepted as a logical
> fallacy and in some cases nigh on impossible. The burden of proof is
> always entirely on the person making the claim, whether that be the
> prosecution in a court case, a scientist putting forward a new theory
> or someone on the internet claiming to be a dragon.
Thus you making the claim that I'm not exactly who and what I say has
burden of proof that I'm lying, or misperceiving, or am mentally
unstable, or what have you. So where does that leave us?
Lord Flame Stryke
--
DC2.D~ Gm L120f60t180w W T Phawlt Sks Cbk,ere' Bfl A+++! Fr++ Nm M+ O H+
$ Fc~ R+++! Ac+++ J+ S++ U! I# V+++! Q Tc++ E++
Draco nigrum, oculi rubere, suppositus, magus.
http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/ |
http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/AFDList.html
Holder of the Scroll of Nobility from Lady Viriatha, Keeper of the Wand
of Sparklies in its case from Hex, Wielder of the Lady Viri Signature
4x8 from Ysable, Eater of the Mint Cheesecake from Whisper, Mate to Lady
Viriatha, Owner of Flame Stryke's Windex® Factory, Lord Balloonmaker,
Borrower of the Ebony Wood Fife from Luxatos, Accepter of the Small
Statue of a Green Dragon Covered in Ice Cream Toppings from Juniper,
Employer of a miniature Jester doll from SeaKing, Bearer of the Magic
Ever-Bill from SeaKing, Carrier of the gold piece from whisper: o,
Builder of Dragon Fyre Keep, First Dragon of Realism, Giver of the
Pickaxe of Icebreaking to Kalos
--
"I'll just sit here and explode than, shall I?" -- John Cleese, Pluto
Nash
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129880 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 13:20 |
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On a dark and stormy night, dgorman88 [at] aol.com whispered:
> Draco18s wrote:
>
> > I have talked with animals, cats, dogs, horses...
> > I have seen healing done on a body without the >person having been
> > touched... I have been subject to temporal distortion (I.E. >short
> > distance time travel)...
> > These are not faith to me, I do not believe them. >I KNOW. I have
> > done it.
>
> I'm sure you believe you have done these things, but can you present a
> single shed of evidence for these things you claim to know as fact?
>
> > And so have others.
> http://www.google.com/search?h l=en&q=hands+on+healing&btnG=G
> oogle+Search
>
> And others still have disproved such claims.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=hands+on+he aling+debunked&btn
> G=Search
>
>
> Scott L wrote:
>
> > It's also a burden of proof to demonstrate it >doesn't work; the
> > person having faith it isn't factual must be able to >demonstrate
> > impossibility
>
> Proving a negative, any negative, has long been accepted as a logical
> fallacy and in some cases nigh on impossible.
So is requiring an unprovable fact; a fact that cannot be demonstrated
in *any* direction. This demonstrates the superstition you follow by
disbelieving the possibility of magic. In essence, you therefore
practice magic by denying magic.
Just a Monkey,
Scott,
--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129881 ] |
Sa, 10 September 2005 13:22 |
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On a dark and stormy night, Draco18s whispered:
> I think that your reply to Scott is my reply to you. You can't prove
> that it doesn't happen based on partial results.
Yup. Said response was a blatant aspect of the circular (read;
fallacious and superstitious) argument that absence of proof equals
proof of absence.
Just a Monkey,
Scott,
--
Visit me at http://4dw.net/moonfriend/index.html
Find the KMG (KY/Midwest Gather) at http://www.wertle.com/midwest.html
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129882 ] |
So, 11 September 2005 01:43 |
|
In article <79SdnWainJIR87_eRVn-pw [at] comcast.com>, kaloskalyre [at] comcast.net
says...
> Draco18s wrote:
> ...
> >>>>And Scott, I understand what you're saying.
> >>>>
> >>>>When you start talking about things beyond our abillity to perceive
> >>>>reality, it really becomes a matter of faith rather than fact. I have
> >>>>no problem with people having faith in magic or in dragons in a
> >>>>non-observable, non-physical way. But when someone makes the claim that
> >>>>they can use magic to have a real effect on the world, or that dragons
> >>>>exist in a physical sense, there's a burden of proof, and the proof
> >>>>quite simply isn't there.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I have talked with animals, cats, dogs, horses...
> >>
> >>Can you do this and prove that you've done it? If so I know somebody
> >>willing to give you $1 million real US dollars, no kidding. See his web
> >>site at www.randi.org
> >
> >
> > I'm curious as to how a test for talking with animals could be set up.
> > And as for my submitting myself. I'd rather not because I'm not very good
> > at doing it, I can get answers some of the time, but certainly not enough to
> > pass any kind of proof test.
> >
> I'm curious too. Really it depends on what kinds of things you talk
> about.
Cats, dogs, and horses mostly (seeing as those three animals live at my
house).
> If they can identify an object and tell you what it is, for
> example, you could have somebody put the object in another room, have
> the animal go into said room and see what the object is, and then have
> him/her come back and tell you.
I've asked those types of questions, but the thing is, the animal has to be
interested in the object in question. A number on a piece of paper isn't
going to come through, because the number has no meaning to the animal. The
best I might get is "guy with a piece of paper" in picture form.
The name the animal's owner gives it falls into this category sometimes.
> If on the other hand you generally get
> things like "I'm hungry"/"I Want to play"/"Who are these strange
> people?", that would be harder to design a test for because they can
> often be understood simply by watching the animal's actions. This is
> assuming, of course, that you know what general kind of answer you'll
> get. If you don't know that, then designing a test would be nearly, if
> not totally, impossible.
For those, I rarely talk to the animal for. Observation is much simpler
Now, if you had a dog who went into the room and in the room was food and it
was given to the dog, I'm sure I'd be able to pick up on that, and without
behavioral clues.
--
Draco18s
DC2.Dw Gm L- W- T Phvwalt Sks Cag^ Bco|# A- Fr Nu M--- O H+ $ Fo R+++ Ac+ J+
S+ I-# V++ Q++ Tc+++[C++]/Tc--- E+
"Yum!" |> v-v-v-v |>
| , , .|. | n | .|.
'. |_/| | |'''''''''''| | \
(q p),-| | HERSHEY'S | |'-._ ))
/_(/ | | CHO|"|LIT | | ) '-.___//
---W"W----'-'----'-'----'-'----------'--------------
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129883 ] |
So, 11 September 2005 01:48 |
|
In article <Xns96CD1745BCA9CDragonFyre [at] 24.71.223.159>, FlameStryke [at] gmail.com
says...
> On 09 Sep 2005, dgorman88 [at] aol.com was found to have scratched
> news:1126323634.771080.145720 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com on a rock in
> alt.fan.dragons:
>
> >>It's also a burden of proof to demonstrate it >doesn't work; the
> >>person having faith it isn't factual must be able to >demonstrate
> >>impossibility
> > Proving a negative, any negative, has long been accepted as a logical
> > fallacy and in some cases nigh on impossible. The burden of proof is
> > always entirely on the person making the claim, whether that be the
> > prosecution in a court case, a scientist putting forward a new theory
> > or someone on the internet claiming to be a dragon.
>
> Thus you making the claim that I'm not exactly who and what I say has
> burden of proof that I'm lying, or misperceiving, or am mentally
> unstable, or what have you. So where does that leave us?
Somewhere in the vicinity of proving God via Jesus.
Proof as follows (well, what I know of it):
Jesus existed (fact)
Jesus gave us good laws to live by (fact)
Jesus said God existed (fact)
Now, either Jesus was crazy, lying, he never existed, or he's telling the
truth.
Do you want to believe a crazy man?
Do you want to listen to a lie-er?
Or did he not exist? (Thus unmaking Christianity/Catholicism/etc.)
Or is it all true? (Thus proving an unprovable)
--
Draco18s
DC2.Dw Gm L- W- T Phvwalt Sks Cag^ Bco|# A- Fr Nu M--- O H+ $ Fo R+++ Ac+ J+
S+ I-# V++ Q++ Tc+++[C++]/Tc--- E+
"Yum!" |> v-v-v-v |>
| , , .|. | n | .|.
'. |_/| | |'''''''''''| | \
(q p),-| | HERSHEY'S | |'-._ ))
/_(/ | | CHO|"|LIT | | ) '-.___//
---W"W----'-'----'-'----'-'----------'--------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #129887 ] |
So, 11 September 2005 17:59 |
|
dgorman88 [at] aol.com wrote:
> >> If you're looking for unicorns, gnomes, or yes, even dragons, then
> > >you're going to be disappointed. They don't exist. Or at least not
> > >in any tangible form. There is no real magic in the world as you
> > >envisioned when you were a child, and I can see why you might find
> > >this depressing.
>
> >I must break in here and say that if this is your belief, you'll never
> >see magic. Magic isn't something that needs to be seen to be believed,
> >it's something that needs to be believed to be seen.
>
> I'm not going to see magic because magic in the sense you mean it
> does not exist, and this kind of doublethink attempt to explain that
> away violates the first principle of scientific inquiry. Something must
> be provable in repeatable conditions to people who aren't already
> convinced of the claim.
Been, and done. When I told my friends about my being a dragon, and
having magical abilities, some of them wanted me to go see a
psycologist. So, I humoured them. They are, after all, my friends, and
only doing what they thought best for me. I used repeatable, testable,
scientific evidence that I do infact have magical abilities. As for my
being a dragon, despite the fact that I had some emperical data on the
subject, far too much of it is introspective. So I don't think she
believed that. I did, however, manage to convince her that my belief
did not hinder my normal day to day life, and that I posed no danger to
myself or others.
> That's how we get objectivity. Of course if
> you are convinced of the existence of magic you will see magic, just as
> if you're convinced of flat earth theory you'll see a flat earth.
> But that doesn't change the fact that the earth is round, and it
> doesn't change the fact that it is not populated by unicorns.
>
>
> > >But in truth, it's liberating.
> > >Because what you can now as an adult appreciate is that magic is
> > >entirely in the eye of the beholder. If you see magic in something,
> > >then it is magic. And you can see magic anywhere. In every facet of
> > >life, in nature, in art, in those serendipitous little coincidences
> > >that brighten the day, even in the science you unfairly malign.
> > >This is the nature of growing up. Reconciling the beliefs of childhood
> > >with the realities of adulthood. Some things, some parts of yourself,
> > >you'll find truly aren't there anymore, and it is best that you do
> > >not try and get these things back, because everything has it's time.
>
> >My childhood was a long time ago,
>
> Let me guess, you're thousands of years old? Millions?
>
> For some odd reason those who believe they are
> dragons/vampires/unicorns (in addition to generally sharing exactly the
> same back story: "I was unbelievably powerful and did lots of cool
> shit, something tragic and really overdramatic happened, now I'm
> trapped in human form") seem to without exception claim some
> ridiculously inflated age. Just for once I want to see someone claiming
> to be a dragon less than a few hundred years old.
>
> It'd make a nice change.
>
Ok, here's your nice change. I'm significantly less that a hundred
years old, and have never, to my knowledge, possessed unimaginable
power. I am working on it, though. If you want a run down of my back
story, it's simple: I never really felt as though I fit in with
humanity. As such, I tried to figure out what I am. Part of me kept
screaming "you are a dragon," and so I tried to gather evidence to
disprove what I believed. I tried my very best to remain objetive, but
was only able to find one thing that refuted my claim. Physical
appearance.
> >> But I think you'll find that many of the beliefs, many of the aspects
> >> of life you knew as a child are not gone, they have merely changed.
> > >And if you can reach into that enthusiasm of youth, whilst still
> > >maintaining the critical cynicism of age, you might find the world can
> > >be just as full of magic as when you were a child.
>
> >This seems to contradict everything you just said. "Some things, some
> >parts of yourself, you'll find truly aren't there anymore" and "Many of
> >the aspects of life you knew as a child are not gone."
>
> There's no contradiction, some things remain, some will be gone, and
> some will merely have changed over time into something different.
> That's the nature of growing up.
Bah, growing up is no fun. The world looses too much of it's wonder
that way.
========================
Draklor
DC2.Dc Gm L- W- T- Phvwflt Sks C~ Bfl A Fr- Nn M+ O/ H++ $ F--o R+++
Ac+++ J++ S U- I# V+ Q? Tc+++ E+
Official lounge rat, and member of the Kendo Krew.
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #145728 ] |
Mi, 07 September 2005 15:52 |
|
Marrock wrote:
> "I want to believe"... four simple words, fourteen letters, a rather
> simple statement of desire that holds all the hope in the world.
>
> And it's true for myself, I want to believe, I want to believe there's
> still some magic left in this sad benighted world, this slowly dying
> lump of rock hanging alone in space. There has to be some quarter, some
> small outpost that the magic still holds sway in, someplace that hasn't
> been corrupted by this science nonsense that's killing the rest of the
> planet.
>
> Growing up I used to think there was magic all around, behind every tree
> and under every rock in the forest, a small clearing just -had- to be a
> magic circle, that small pile of stones over there had to be a marker
> left by the gnomes to mark safe territory.
>
> I used to talk softly to anything that might be listening in the forest
> as I passed through, trying to let them know I meant no harm and wasn't
> going to outstay my welcome and sometimes I could swear I heard, softly,
> something responding, as if letting me know it was all right and I was
> welcome in their place of power, I would have that feeling you'd get
> when you walk into your own home, that you were safe and welcome, I
> loved those woods and I think they knew it, at least that was how it
> felt to me back then.
>
> But after a while the feeling faded, I don't know if it was because I
> got older or more cynical, or what, but after a time I'd go into those
> woods and all it felt like was I was walking through a clump of trees,
> that old feeling wasn't there anymore and I miss it, that feeling of
> being surrounded by magic is gone and it feels like I lost something
> precious to me and I can never get it back.
>
> I'd do anything to get that back
>
>
> ...I want to believe...
>
> --
> Good journeys,
> Marrock Volsung
>
> Bearer of one Ponder Point
>
> "Fly with me," said the dragon, "live in the depths of the waters and
> soar through the sky.
> We are not toys for mortals, but spirits that ride the winds and blow
> the clouds along." --Lu Kuei Meng
>
> DC2.Dw Gm L42f W T25,000l Phvwalt Sks,wl
> Cbk\gr-^,fgr--,ebk%,vgr--^>bk^,sgr-^,bgr--^&1bk^,wbk [at] gr-,cag^ Bac A++ Nm
> O H $+ R+++! Ac+++ J S+++! U I++ V-- Q+++! Tc+ E---!#
Trust me, it's still there. Magic still exists, it's all around us. The
night alone holds more magic than most have realized in a long time,
and the forests still talk if you know how to listen. All you have to
do is believe, not just want to, but truly BELIEVE. Just look, feel,
you can move it if you try, and it can move mountains. My sympathies to
you if you've forgotten how, but trust me, you can remember. I forgot
once, and the pain that caused ensured I never forgot again. Take Lord
Flame Stryke's advice, it'll work if you believe.
========================
Draklor
DC2.Dc Gm L- W- T- Phvwflt Sks C~ Bfl A Fr- Nn M+ O/ H++ $ F--o R+++
Ac+++ J++ S U- I# V+ Q? Tc+++ E+
Official lounge rat, and member of the Kendo Krew.
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #145734 ] |
Mi, 07 September 2005 17:47 |
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You all say things like that, but it's harder than you make it out to
be. It's easy enough to pretend to believe, to give all appearances of
believing, but it's very difficult for those of us with skeptical minds
to actually come right out and do it. Seeing magic in the everyday is
fine - easy enough to be impressed, even filled with wonder, at some of
the things we see around us, but actually believing in magic in the
fantastic sense - nearly impossible. It's like trying to believe in
god. Which, for me, as a skeptic who requires solid proof, is extremely
difficult. Don't ask me to have faith. It's not that easy.
Her silhouette shines in the clouds, and she rises with the sun, to
create another
~Gilded Dawn~
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DC2.Dw Gf L++ W T Palw Sks,wl Cau,sag Bfl A+ Fr+++^ Nm M H+ $ Fc+ R+
Ac+ J++ S U I# V+++ Q Tc+ E+
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #145735 ] |
Mi, 07 September 2005 18:37 |
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You can't force yourself to hold a belief and you shouldn't try. If you
don't truly believe in magic in the fantastical sense then don't beat
yourself up over it, it's merely something you have to deal with.
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| Re: Random ramblings... [message #145747 ] |
Do, 08 September 2005 08:26 |
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On 06 Sep 2005, dgorman88 [at] aol.com was found to have scratched
news:1126021798.609144.189140 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com on a rock in
alt.fan.dragons:
> If you're looking for unicorns, gnomes, or yes, even dragons, then
> you're going to be disappointed. They don't exist. Or at least not
> in any tangible form. There is no real magic in the world as you
> envisioned when you were a child, and I can see why you might find
> this depressing.
I must break in here and say that if this is your belief, you'll never
see magic. Magic isn't something that needs to be seen to be believed,
it's something that needs to be believed to be seen.
> But in truth, it's liberating.
> Because what you can now as an adult appreciate is that magic is
> entirely in the eye of the beholder. If you see magic in something,
> then it is magic. And you can see magic anywhere. In every facet of
> life, in nature, in art, in those serendipitous little coincidences
> that brighten the day, even in the science you unfairly malign.
> This is the nature of growing up. Reconciling the beliefs of childhood
> with the realities of adulthood. Some things, some parts of yourself,
> you'll find truly aren't there anymore, and it is best that you do
> not try and get these things back, because everything has it's time.
My childhood was a long, long time ago, and other than my mate, I still
have everything from my childhood, both the good and the bad, the pain
and the happiness. And if I ever lose any of that, I'm sorry to say, I
wouldn't be myself. I tried to lose some of my pain at one time.
Whether I did this consciously or unconsciously I don't know. But my
god made me remember it. And despite all the pain it brought back to
me, it also brought me back myself.
> But I think you'll find that many of the beliefs, many of the aspects
> of life you knew as a child are not gone, they have merely changed.
> And if you can reach into that enthusiasm of youth, whilst still
> maintaining the critical cynicism of age, you might find the world can
> be just as full of magic as when you were a child.
This seems to contradict everything you just said. "Some things, some
parts of yourself, you'll find truly aren't there anymore" and "Many of
the aspects of life you knew as a child are not gone." Personally, I
agree with this last part, but in fact, nothing is lost from your past.
Even if you can't recall something, it's merely forgotten, not lost.
Lord Flame Stryke
--
DC2.D~ Gm L120f60t180w W T Phawlt Sks Cbk,ere' Bfl A+++! Fr++ Nm M+ O H+
$ Fc~ R+++! Ac+++ J+ S++ U! I# V+++! Q Tc++ E++ Draco nigrum, oculi
rubere, suppositus, magus. http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/ |
http://www.geocities.com/flame_stryke/AFDList.html Holder of the Scroll
of Nobility from Lady Viriatha, Keeper of the Wand of Sparklies in its
case from Hex, Wielder of the Lady Viri Signature 4x8 from Ysable, Eater
of the Mint Cheesecake from Whisper, Mate to Lady Viriatha, Owner of
Flame Stryke's Windex® Factory, Lord Balloonmaker, Borrower of the Ebony
Wood Fife from Luxatos, Accepter of the Small Statue of a Green Dragon
Covered in Ice Cream Toppings from Juniper, Employer of a miniature
Jester doll from SeaKing, Bearer of the Magic Ever-Bill from SeaKing,
Carrier of the gold piece from whisper: o, Builder of Dragon Fyre Keep,
First Dragon of Realism, Giver of the Pickaxe of Icebreaking to Kalos
--
"Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Biochemistry is
the study of carbon compounds that crawl." -- Mike Adams
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