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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » Race and Culture in Star Trek
Race and Culture in Star Trek [message #85961] Mi, 20 Juli 2005 18:00
Michael Ejercito  
The various species-nations in Star Trek seem to be represented by one
monolithic culture. One only need to look at Vulcans or Klingons or
Ferengi to see that. There is a good reason why each alien species
encountered by the main characters seem to have one monolithic culture.
It can be found by studying past and present cultures on Earth. Dr.
Thomas Sowell, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution of Stanford
University, wrote in his book, The Quest For Cosmic Justice c. 1999, in
pages 63 and 64:

How could Eskimos have acquired the skills and experience necessary to
grow pineapples and other tropical crops? How could the people of the
Himalayas have learned to navigate the high seas? How would
Scandinavians or Polynesians know as much about camels as the Beduins
of the Sahara- or the Beduins know as much about fishing as the
Scandinavians or the Polynesians? Given that mineral desposits which
were central to the industrial revolution neither existed in the
Balkans nor could have been transported there without prohibitive
costs, how could emigrants from the Balkans have brought with them to
North America and Australia the industrial skills possessed by people
from the mineral-rich industrial heartlands of Germany or Britain?

It would come as no surprise that a particular culture or cultures
would dominate each species-nation. There may be millions of pacifist
Klingons on QonoS; they have much less influence on setting foreign
policy than the Klingons we are familiar with- not to mention the fact
that they would not crew the Empire's warships. Similarly, Ferengi who
have rejected materialism would be much less likely to be CEO's of
major manufacturing companies or hold positions in the Grand Nagus's
staff.


Michael
Re: Race and Culture in Star Trek [message #85965 ] Mi, 20 Juli 2005 18:59
Daryl Sawyer  
On 20 Jul 2005 09:00:21 -0700, "Michael Ejercito"
<mejercit [at] hotmail.com> wrote:


>
>It would come as no surprise that a particular culture or cultures
>would dominate each species-nation. There may be millions of pacifist
>Klingons on QonoS; they have much less influence on setting foreign
>policy than the Klingons we are familiar with- not to mention the fact
>that they would not crew the Empire's warships. Similarly, Ferengi who
>have rejected materialism would be much less likely to be CEO's of
>major manufacturing companies or hold positions in the Grand Nagus's
>staff.

So what you're saying is that the nonhuman races could well be just as
diverse as humans are today, but that a particular dominant culture
among a particular species is the only culture generally seen out in
space.

Certainly this would be true of members of that species living on
colony planets. Colonists are generally drawn from a particular pool
of a given population.

I question the notion of pacifist Klingons, though. I wonder how
pacifists could survive on a planet when raiding and duels are still
considered an appropriate part of domestic policy (even as it fades
from foreign policy due to the futility of war with their more
powerful neighbors).

Other Ferrengi I can certainly see, though we'd call them the
exploited underclass. I sincerely doubt there is so much as a square
inch of productive land that is not owned by a strong businessman, or
bought from said businessman the instant he displays weakness. Perhaps
there are some stretches of deeper, wetter swamp in which some
continue to live outside the reach of the Ferrengi financial
juggernaut, but I doubt it. Technology can enable the exploitation of
just about any kind of land (even under the oceans!)

Still, the Ferrengi seem to be divided into two spacefaring
subcultures: the raiders, and the traders. The raiders are the guys
who use those crazy lazer whips. Their dedication to combat seems to
erode their minds; Ferrengi seem to have a strong biological aversion
to combat. The traders are much more stable, and when they do fight,
use more standard phasers (or disruptors? I forgot). The traders may
well be on the higher end of the financial chain, as well; the raiders
are seeking profits outside that they could not get within the
Alliance.

Vulcans seem a more likely place to find diversity; logic does have
its limits after all. The harsh environment would also allow for more
diversity. I suspect all pay homage to... I forgot his name. The
Vulcan that lead them out of barbarism.


- Tarvok
Re: Race and Culture in Star Trek [message #85968 ] Mi, 20 Juli 2005 19:24
Kweeg  
"Daryl Sawyer" <tarNOvokSPAM [at] sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:tivsd190v98dtqudhvqh9c8cuie32h65cb [at] 4ax.com...
> On 20 Jul 2005 09:00:21 -0700, "Michael Ejercito"
> <mejercit [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >It would come as no surprise that a particular culture or cultures
> >would dominate each species-nation. There may be millions of pacifist
> >Klingons on QonoS; they have much less influence on setting foreign
> >policy than the Klingons we are familiar with- not to mention the fact
> >that they would not crew the Empire's warships. Similarly, Ferengi who
> >have rejected materialism would be much less likely to be CEO's of
> >major manufacturing companies or hold positions in the Grand Nagus's
> >staff.
<snip>

Indeed. People seem to want to attach human values to *alien* cultures.

--

Qa'pla
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
Re: Race and Culture in Star Trek [message #85970 ] Mi, 20 Juli 2005 19:29
somebody  
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 16:59:24 GMT, Daryl Sawyer wrote:

> On 20 Jul 2005 09:00:21 -0700, "Michael Ejercito"
> <mejercit [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>It would come as no surprise that a particular culture or cultures
>>would dominate each species-nation. There may be millions of pacifist
>>Klingons on QonoS; they have much less influence on setting foreign
>>policy than the Klingons we are familiar with- not to mention the fact
>>that they would not crew the Empire's warships. Similarly, Ferengi who
>>have rejected materialism would be much less likely to be CEO's of
>>major manufacturing companies or hold positions in the Grand Nagus's
>>staff.
>


> Vulcans seem a more likely place to find diversity; logic does have
> its limits after all. The harsh environment would also allow for more
> diversity. I suspect all pay homage to... I forgot his name. The
> Vulcan that lead them out of barbarism.
>
> - Tarvok

I agree with your points about the Klingons and Ferengi, While its
reasonable to believe that pacifist Klingons and Non materialistic Ferengi
'COULD' exist, they would unlikely survive amid the more dominant cultures,
and would be abused if they did.

But i would expect to find some Non-logical Vulcans. i believe the Romulans
were vulcans who rejected Suraks teachings and left the planet? but i would
expect that some would have stayed on vulcan.

Do you think the two could co-exist?

I believe this is an interesting avenue to consider, would the logical
vulcans force there 'Culture' onto those still barbaric, would their be
genocide perhaps at some point in Vulcan history that forced non logical
vulcans to flee? Would there be continuing conflict? or isoltion?
Re: Race and Culture in Star Trek [message #91344 ] Di, 26 Juli 2005 18:36
Daryl Sawyer  
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:29:06 +0100, Feriol <No [at] thanks.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 16:59:24 GMT, Daryl Sawyer wrote:
>
>
>
>> Vulcans seem a more likely place to find diversity; logic does have
>> its limits after all. The harsh environment would also allow for more
>> diversity. I suspect all pay homage to... I forgot his name. The
>> Vulcan that lead them out of barbarism.
>>
>> - Tarvok
>
>I agree with your points about the Klingons and Ferengi, While its
>reasonable to believe that pacifist Klingons and Non materialistic Ferengi
>'COULD' exist, they would unlikely survive amid the more dominant cultures,
>and would be abused if they did.
>
>But i would expect to find some Non-logical Vulcans. i believe the Romulans
>were vulcans who rejected Suraks teachings and left the planet? but i would
>expect that some would have stayed on vulcan.

Actually, I think Romulans left Vulcan before Surak; that's the
impression I get from Spock's speculations, anyway. There was another
group of Vulcans who rejected Surak's teachings (thanks for the name,
BTW), but that was the group that Spocks' brother (Final Frontier) was
a member of--renegade Vulcans, not Romulans.

>Do you think the two could co-exist?

Probably. It is not logical to force culture onto another group, and
there are always those who will hold out no matter how illogical it is
to do so. However, Vulcans are a bit of a unique case. I suspect the
mind meld was originally developed as a means for Vulcans to
communicate with one another when spoken language failed--many
conflicts result not from true differences of opinion, but ways of
expression that seem to suggest to the other a threateningly different
notion.

Quite possibly, the benefits of logic are such that, between the
benefits of logic and the ability to use mind melds to help one
another untangle illogic, it is possible that, with a few exceptions,
Vulcans have been mostly of the logical sort.


- Tarvok
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