| A question for the Trek techs [message #220497] |
Do, 23 Februar 2006 07:56 |
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Why are photon torpedoes dumb weapons? Not dumb as in stupid, but dumb as in
seemingly unguided. With modern weapons technology we have "fire and forget"
type weapons that actively guide themselse to their targets. Even in TOS
days we had guided munitions. Why is it the that we so often see the
torpedoes miss so completely that it would seem like even the firing
computer is guessing?
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| Re: A question for the Trek techs [message #220499 ] |
Do, 23 Februar 2006 17:49 |
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PorKNutZ wrote:
> Why are photon torpedoes dumb weapons? Not dumb as in stupid, but dumb as in
> seemingly unguided. With modern weapons technology we have "fire and forget"
> type weapons that actively guide themselse to their targets. Even in TOS
> days we had guided munitions. Why is it the that we so often see the
> torpedoes miss so completely that it would seem like even the firing
> computer is guessing?
Photons are not dumb weapons, they are guided.
Worf was testing a new guidance system in "Genesis",
and the EMH mentioned torpedo guidance in "Message
in a Bottle".
And in fact they miss quite rarely. Most every
example of a photon torpedo missing its target
involves it being fired by a damaged ship, or
within a nebula or some other environment in
which targeting and guidance is difficult.
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
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| Re: A question for the Trek techs [message #220502 ] |
Do, 23 Februar 2006 20:26 |
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"Graham Kennedy" <graham [at] ditl.org> wrote in message
news:OHlLf.664$e8.1759 [at] news-1.opaltelecom.net...
> PorKNutZ wrote:
>> Why are photon torpedoes dumb weapons? Not dumb as in stupid, but dumb as
>> in seemingly unguided. With modern weapons technology we have "fire and
>> forget" type weapons that actively guide themselse to their targets. Even
>> in TOS days we had guided munitions. Why is it the that we so often see
>> the torpedoes miss so completely that it would seem like even the firing
>> computer is guessing?
>
> Photons are not dumb weapons, they are guided.
> Worf was testing a new guidance system in "Genesis",
> and the EMH mentioned torpedo guidance in "Message
> in a Bottle".
>
> And in fact they miss quite rarely. Most every
> example of a photon torpedo missing its target
> involves it being fired by a damaged ship, or
> within a nebula or some other environment in
> which targeting and guidance is difficult.
Indeed. And in ST:TUC they give a photon torpedo autonomous guidance control
to automatically seek out exhaust plasma streams.
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| Re: A question for the Trek techs [message #220518 ] |
Fr, 24 Februar 2006 06:05 |
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"PorKNutZ" <porknuts*nospam* [at] cox.net> wrote in message
news:d0dLf.410439$0l5.334857 [at] dukeread06...
> Why are photon torpedoes dumb weapons? Not dumb as in stupid, but dumb as
in
> seemingly unguided. With modern weapons technology we have "fire and
forget"
> type weapons that actively guide themselse to their targets. Even in TOS
> days we had guided munitions. Why is it the that we so often see the
> torpedoes miss so completely that it would seem like even the firing
> computer is guessing?
>
>
When did you see them miss?
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| Re: A question for the Trek techs [message #220519 ] |
Fr, 24 Februar 2006 06:06 |
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Glassman wrote:
> When did you see them miss?
::highfive!:: Good question! :)
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| Re: A question for the Trek techs [message #220550 ] |
Fr, 24 Februar 2006 18:43 |
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ToolPackinMama wrote:
> Glassman wrote:
>
>> When did you see them miss?
>
> ::highfive!:: Good question! :)
The first time I know of that a photon
clearly missed the target was the Reliant
in Wrath of Khan. It fired on and missed
the Enterprise *before* they went into the
nebula, then again after.
The second miss is obvious, the whole point
of going in there was that tactical functions
wouldn't function. before is harder. But the
dialogue when Enterpise first hits Reliant
earlier on is
Joaquim : "We can't fire!"
Khan : "Why can't you?"
Joaquim : "They've damaged the photon controls
and the warp drive!"
Clearly they got the photons back to functional
service, but there's nothing to say they repaired
all of the damage and were able to target them
properly.
Like I said - almost every concrete example of a
Trek ship missing anything it shoots at involved
damage or special circumstances. Under normal
conditions they are *massively* accurate.
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
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| Re: A question for the Trek techs [message #220556 ] |
Fr, 24 Februar 2006 23:50 |
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On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:43:27 +0000, Graham Kennedy <graham [at] ditl.org>
wrote:
>ToolPackinMama wrote:
>> Glassman wrote:
>>
>>> When did you see them miss?
>>
>> ::highfive!:: Good question! :)
>
>The first time I know of that a photon
>clearly missed the target was the Reliant
>in Wrath of Khan. It fired on and missed
>the Enterprise *before* they went into the
>nebula, then again after.
>
>The second miss is obvious, the whole point
>of going in there was that tactical functions
>wouldn't function. before is harder. But the
>dialogue when Enterpise first hits Reliant
>earlier on is
>
>Joaquim : "We can't fire!"
> Khan : "Why can't you?"
>Joaquim : "They've damaged the photon controls
> and the warp drive!"
>
>Clearly they got the photons back to functional
>service, but there's nothing to say they repaired
>all of the damage and were able to target them
>properly.
>
>Like I said - almost every concrete example of a
>Trek ship missing anything it shoots at involved
>damage or special circumstances. Under normal
>conditions they are *massively* accurate.
Given the conditions at which they often engage their targets, it's
not hard to see why.
After all, they're usually within spitting distance anyway, so how can
you miss?
-LMB
The reason congressmen try so hard to get re-elected is that they
would hate to have to make a living under the laws they've passed.
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea.
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| Re: A question for the Trek techs [message #243296 ] |
So, 02 April 2006 02:32 |
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> Why are photon torpedoes dumb weapons? Not dumb as in stupid, but
> dumb as in seemingly unguided. With modern weapons technology we
> have "fire and forget" type weapons that actively guide themselse to
> their targets. Even in TOS days we had guided munitions. Why is it
> the that we so often see the torpedoes miss so completely that it
> would seem like even the firing computer is guessing?
Same reasons present day seeking weapons miss, countermeasures.
Someone developes a seeker, the opposition developes a means to
distract the weapon. The weapon is given better sensory guidence and
the opposition make the counter better.
I remember torpedoes bursting around the target ship until Chekov
finally say "Got him!". Many torpedoes were probably detonating before
the ship thinking they reached the target. Some may hit the shield but
not the ship itself. It was the one that finally passed through a now
down shield and that's the one we hear about from the crew.
Phasers could do that too. They aren't visually aiming, they're using
computer assisted targeting that's also fighting ghost signals and
sensor dampening. We just don't hear about it because it could bog
down the action. Wrath of Khan is the only one I remember that did
involve visual, seat-of-your-pants instinct firing.
Don't think of starships as naval but as 'modern' aerial.
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