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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc
| Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204067] |
So, 22 Januar 2006 19:56 |
|
The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal Cold
War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and therefore
interfere with the other series).
Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek canon?
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204070 ] |
So, 22 Januar 2006 20:48 |
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<allemannster [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137956184.058906.244470 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal Cold
> War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and therefore
> interfere with the other series).
>
> Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek canon?
Have a read of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_%28television%29
and alleged continuity problems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Enterprise_alleged_c ontinuity_problems
If your not asking a rhetorical question here and really did actually watch
Enterprise and still had problems or couldn't follow it I don't think I or
anyone else could use words small enough for you to understand it.
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204072 ] |
So, 22 Januar 2006 23:01 |
|
On 22 Jan 2006 10:56:24 -0800, allemannster [at] gmail.com wrote:
> The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal Cold
> War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and therefore
> interfere with the other series).
>
> Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek canon?
It's all due to a Berman-Braga spatial-temporal rift.
--
Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz
Promote someone else.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204073 ] |
So, 22 Januar 2006 23:06 |
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On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:48:44 GMT, Kweeg wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Enterprise_alleged_c ontinuity_problems
"Brannon Braga claims he and his staff were "slaves to the
continuity,"
My ass.
You're telling me that Dr. Bashir didn't know that the Klingons went
through a period of looking like humans due to the actions of an
Enterprise crew? Did our beloved genetically enhanced doctor just
sleep through that part of his education?
Of course, the DS9 episode could be blamed, but it was written
*before* Enterprise.
--
Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz
Promote someone else.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204080 ] |
Mo, 23 Januar 2006 16:59 |
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allemannster [at] gmail.com wrote:
> The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal Cold
> War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and therefore
> interfere with the other series).
>
> Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek canon?
>
They don't. Thats why Enterprise sucked so much ass.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204084 ] |
Mo, 23 Januar 2006 18:58 |
|
"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:n_GdnYn60szaYEneRVn-pA [at] giganews.com...
> allemannster [at] gmail.com wrote:
> > The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal Cold
> > War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and therefore
> > interfere with the other series).
> >
> > Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek canon?
> >
>
> They don't. Thats why Enterprise sucked so much ass.
Explain, if you can.
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204088 ] |
Mo, 23 Januar 2006 21:15 |
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Kweeg wrote:
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:n_GdnYn60szaYEneRVn-pA [at] giganews.com...
>
>>allemannster [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal Cold
>>>War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and therefore
>>>interfere with the other series).
>>>
>>>Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek canon?
>>>
>>
>>They don't. Thats why Enterprise sucked so much ass.
>
>
> Explain, if you can.
>
1. Beavis and Butthead shit all over continuity and canon.
2. Neither the Xindi nor Temporal War were ever mentioned in TOS, TNG,
DS9, or Voyager. You'd think that events of that magnitude would have
come up sometime.
3. Enterprise suffered from poor writing (thanks to Beavis and
Butthead), poor direction (sometimes), poor acting (sometimes) and
generally lacked the class, energy and effort of the previous series.
4. Enterprise sucked ass.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204089 ] |
Mo, 23 Januar 2006 22:33 |
|
"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:i8ydnaVgn4yqpEjeRVn-gg [at] giganews.com...
> Kweeg wrote:
> > "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:n_GdnYn60szaYEneRVn-pA [at] giganews.com...
> >
> >>allemannster [at] gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal Cold
> >>>War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and therefore
> >>>interfere with the other series).
> >>>
> >>>Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek
canon?
> >>>
> >>
> >>They don't. Thats why Enterprise sucked so much ass.
> >
> >
> > Explain, if you can.
> >
>
> 1. Beavis and Butthead shit all over continuity and canon.
err not realy, maby all over "established" fan-on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Enterprise_alleged_c ontinuity_problems
> 2. Neither the Xindi nor Temporal War were ever mentioned in TOS, TNG,
> DS9, or Voyager. You'd think that events of that magnitude would have
> come up sometime.
Maybe not It wasn't like billions were killed or fought a major war. One
might think that Kodos the Executioner (TOS Consonance of the King) would
have been mentioned again or we would have found out what exactly Zora did
to make here so "evil" in the eyes of Humans and Vulcans as we did with
Colonel Green (TOS The Savage Curtain) There's tons more "important"
incidents that happened in the Trek universe with no mention of them again.
> 3. Enterprise suffered from poor writing (thanks to Beavis and
> Butthead), poor direction (sometimes), poor acting (sometimes) and
> generally lacked the class, energy and effort of the previous series.
Can not argue with you there, except for season 4 (minus "Daedulus" and
"These are the Voyages") which was the best Trek since most of DS9
> 4. Enterprise sucked ass.
Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so eloquently.
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204091 ] |
Mo, 23 Januar 2006 23:29 |
|
The Continuity Problems Wikipedia article is very informative on all
levels of Enterprise. Thanks for the info.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204094 ] |
Di, 24 Januar 2006 00:00 |
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<allemannster [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138055378.336699.121910 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The Continuity Problems Wikipedia article is very informative on all
> levels of Enterprise. Thanks for the info.
No problem.
Some fanboys just whine for the sake of whining or that TPTB don't conform
to the fanboy's preconceived view of how the Star Trek universe *should* be.
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204099 ] |
Di, 24 Januar 2006 02:31 |
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Kweeg wrote:
> Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so eloquently.
>
Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204103 ] |
Di, 24 Januar 2006 03:31 |
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Ragnar wrote:
> Kweeg wrote:
> > "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:n_GdnYn60szaYEneRVn-pA [at] giganews.com...
> >
> >>allemannster [at] gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>>The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal Cold
> >>>War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and therefore
> >>>interfere with the other series).
> >>>
> >>>Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek canon?
> >>>
> >>
> >>They don't. Thats why Enterprise sucked so much ass.
> >
> >
> > Explain, if you can.
> >
>
> 1. Beavis and Butthead shit all over continuity and canon.
>
> 2. Neither the Xindi nor Temporal War were ever mentioned in TOS, TNG,
> DS9, or Voyager. You'd think that events of that magnitude would have
> come up sometime.
The Temporal Cold War was not recorded in any official history. Kirk
and Spock certainly would not have known, unless someone from the
thirty-first century recruited them for assistance.
A lot happened between the Xindi attack and TOS, Season 4 of
Enterprise covers some of the events. By the Next Generation, the Xindi
incident would just be a footnote in history.
Michaek
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204104 ] |
Di, 24 Januar 2006 03:52 |
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Interesting theory about the footnote in history Michael.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204105 ] |
Di, 24 Januar 2006 04:44 |
|
"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:RvKdnY4wC5URHkjeRVn-vA [at] giganews.com...
> Kweeg wrote:
> > Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
eloquently.
> >
>
> Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
Keep trying, sunshine....
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204108 ] |
Di, 24 Januar 2006 14:13 |
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Kweeg wrote:
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:RvKdnY4wC5URHkjeRVn-vA [at] giganews.com...
>
>>Kweeg wrote:
>>
>>>Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
>
> eloquently.
>
>>Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
>
>
> Keep trying, sunshine....
>
Bite me.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204109 ] |
Di, 24 Januar 2006 18:42 |
|
"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:DP2dnW1AY9WYtUveRVn-iw [at] giganews.com...
> Kweeg wrote:
> > "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:RvKdnY4wC5URHkjeRVn-vA [at] giganews.com...
> >
> >>Kweeg wrote:
> >>
> >>>Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
> >
> > eloquently.
> >
> >>Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
> >
> >
> > Keep trying, sunshine....
> >
>
> Bite me.
oohhh no there's a good comeback... you are soo witty.... and you know lots
about Star Trek too, you are so smrt.
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204126 ] |
Mi, 25 Januar 2006 05:26 |
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On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:13:41 -0500, Ragnar <rworkss [at] comsouth.net>
wrote:
>Kweeg wrote:
>> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:RvKdnY4wC5URHkjeRVn-vA [at] giganews.com...
>>
>>>Kweeg wrote:
>>>
>>>>Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
>>
>> eloquently.
>>
>>>Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
>>
>>
>> Keep trying, sunshine....
>>
>
>Bite me.
I have Kweef killfiled. In the future, please remove all of his
comments before replying because I hate to have to shower after
reading his fat, trashbag Klingon costume wearing drivel.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204133 ] |
Mi, 25 Januar 2006 08:04 |
|
Kweeg wrote:
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:DP2dnW1AY9WYtUveRVn-iw [at] giganews.com...
>
>>Kweeg wrote:
>>
>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>news:RvKdnY4wC5URHkjeRVn-vA [at] giganews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Kweeg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
>>>
>>>eloquently.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
>>>
>>>
>>>Keep trying, sunshine....
>>>
>>
>>Bite me.
>
>
> oohhh no there's a good comeback... you are soo witty.... and you know lots
> about Star Trek too, you are so smrt.
>
As if *your* "keep trying, sunshine" was sssoooooooooo witty.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204137 ] |
Mi, 25 Januar 2006 09:26 |
|
"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6eudnZNulqKKvkreRVn-oQ [at] giganews.com...
> Kweeg wrote:
> > "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:DP2dnW1AY9WYtUveRVn-iw [at] giganews.com...
> >
> >>Kweeg wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:RvKdnY4wC5URHkjeRVn-vA [at] giganews.com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Kweeg wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
> >>>
> >>>eloquently.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Keep trying, sunshine....
> >>>
> >>
> >>Bite me.
> >
> >
> > oohhh no there's a good comeback... you are soo witty.... and you know
lots
> > about Star Trek too, you are so smrt.
> >
>
> As if *your* "keep trying, sunshine" was sssoooooooooo witty.
As Kirk once said, "I'm laughing...... at the *superior* intellect"
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204143 ] |
Mi, 25 Januar 2006 18:53 |
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Kweeg wrote:
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:6eudnZNulqKKvkreRVn-oQ [at] giganews.com...
>
>>Kweeg wrote:
>>
>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>news:DP2dnW1AY9WYtUveRVn-iw [at] giganews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Kweeg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:RvKdnY4wC5URHkjeRVn-vA [at] giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Kweeg wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
>>>>>
>>>>>eloquently.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Keep trying, sunshine....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bite me.
>>>
>>>
>>>oohhh no there's a good comeback... you are soo witty.... and you know
>
> lots
>
>>>about Star Trek too, you are so smrt.
>>>
>>
>>As if *your* "keep trying, sunshine" was sssoooooooooo witty.
>
>
>
> As Kirk once said, "I'm laughing...... at the *superior* intellect"
>
I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
know how to spell Queeg.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204160 ] |
Do, 26 Januar 2006 01:58 |
|
"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:WLydnWz-_b6aJkrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
> Kweeg wrote:
> > "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:6eudnZNulqKKvkreRVn-oQ [at] giganews.com...
> >
> >>Kweeg wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:DP2dnW1AY9WYtUveRVn-iw [at] giganews.com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Kweeg wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:RvKdnY4wC5URHkjeRVn-vA [at] giganews.com...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Kweeg wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
> >>>>>
> >>>>>eloquently.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Keep trying, sunshine....
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Bite me.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>oohhh no there's a good comeback... you are soo witty.... and you know
> >
> > lots
> >
> >>>about Star Trek too, you are so smrt.
> >>>
> >>
> >>As if *your* "keep trying, sunshine" was sssoooooooooo witty.
> >
> >
> >
> > As Kirk once said, "I'm laughing...... at the *superior* intellect"
> >
>
> I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
> know how to spell Queeg.
ahh the spelling mistake argument, that last straw to grasp at when you have
nothing more.... so tell me, person who is not smarter than the average
bear but quickly proving that he actually is allot stupider than an average
bear, what is the right spelling, Brian or Bryan, Karl or Carl, Sean or
Shawn?
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204161 ] |
Do, 26 Januar 2006 02:40 |
|
Kweeg wrote:
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:WLydnWz-_b6aJkrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>
>>Kweeg wrote:
>>
>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>news:6eudnZNulqKKvkreRVn-oQ [at] giganews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Kweeg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:DP2dnW1AY9WYtUveRVn-iw [at] giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Kweeg wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:RvKdnY4wC5URHkjeRVn-vA [at] giganews.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Kweeg wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>eloquently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Keep trying, sunshine....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bite me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>oohhh no there's a good comeback... you are soo witty.... and you know
>>>
>>>lots
>>>
>>>
>>>>>about Star Trek too, you are so smrt.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>As if *your* "keep trying, sunshine" was sssoooooooooo witty.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>As Kirk once said, "I'm laughing...... at the *superior* intellect"
>>>
>>
>>I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
>>know how to spell Queeg.
>
>
> ahh the spelling mistake argument, that last straw to grasp at when you have
> nothing more.... so tell me, person who is not smarter than the average
> bear but quickly proving that he actually is allot stupider than an average
> bear, what is the right spelling, Brian or Bryan, Karl or Carl, Sean or
> Shawn?
>
Yep, try to deflect from your own shortcomings. Nice try.
|
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204172 ] |
Do, 26 Januar 2006 12:21 |
|
"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:oeednQa_7JA9tUXeRVn-oQ [at] giganews.com...
> Kweeg wrote:
> > "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:WLydnWz-_b6aJkrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
> >
> >>Kweeg wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:6eudnZNulqKKvkreRVn-oQ [at] giganews.com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Kweeg wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:DP2dnW1AY9WYtUveRVn-iw [at] giganews.com...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Kweeg wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:RvKdnY4wC5URHkjeRVn-vA [at] giganews.com...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Kweeg wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>eloquently.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Keep trying, sunshine....
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Bite me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>oohhh no there's a good comeback... you are soo witty.... and you
know
> >>>
> >>>lots
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>about Star Trek too, you are so smrt.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>As if *your* "keep trying, sunshine" was sssoooooooooo witty.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>As Kirk once said, "I'm laughing...... at the *superior* intellect"
> >>>
> >>
> >>I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
> >>know how to spell Queeg.
> >
> >
> > ahh the spelling mistake argument, that last straw to grasp at when you
have
> > nothing more.... so tell me, person who is not smarter than the average
> > bear but quickly proving that he actually is allot stupider than an
average
> > bear, >
> Yep, try to deflect from your own shortcomings. Nice try.
LOL!
Are you really that dense of a person or do you just play on the Usenet?
I'll ask again as apparently you missed the question the first time; (and
I'm typing as slow as I can so you can keep up) ; what is the right
spelling, oh wise grammar and spelling sage, Brian or Bryan, Karl or Carl,
Sean or Shawn? Do you know or will you just exchange the feet again in you
cavernous mouth? I am still "laughing...... at the *superior* intellect"
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
|
|
|
| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204179 ] |
Do, 26 Januar 2006 16:35 |
|
continuity problems are through out star trek all of them, one episode
the ship can do this and the next it can't what the heck is that.
enterprise was great fun and it actually solved one of the continuity
problems, the appearance of the klingons.
peace
zonker
http://2000ah.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204184 ] |
Do, 26 Januar 2006 23:08 |
|
"zonker" <zonkerdead [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1138289731.201641.23520 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> continuity problems are through out star trek all of them, one episode
> the ship can do this and the next it can't what the heck is that.
True
> enterprise was great fun and it actually solved one of the continuity
> problems, the appearance of the klingons.
But there's the known problem. In TNG Picard said First Contact with the
Klingons brought "decades of war".
Well, where was the war???
Not to mention NX-01 personnel having "phase pistols" while Pike, Spock et
al. in "The Menagerie" having *lasers*.
Not to mention NX-01 doing a warp 5 while NCC-1701 in "The Menagerie" barely
doing warp 7, and NCC-1701 in "Arena" barely holding sustained +7 - all this
being 100 years after NX-01.
So in 100 years they have managed a 2 warp increase - even after all of
NX-01's "boldly going" and meeting new life, not to mention new
technologies. Remember the comment in "The Menagerie"? "With our new
ships..." Hmmm. 2 warp being a radical improvement? And the castaways on
Talos would therefore have had access to at least warp 5 ships, never mind a
good chance of warp 6 ships. Waiting for Enterprise to find them in order
for a warp 7 ship to be able to actually reach them - the implication of the
rescue, that they were a bit "out of the way" prior to a Constitution-class
speed vessel showing up 'in the neighborhood' - is rather fantastic.
And NX-01's transporter being even faster in operation than NCC-1701 under
Pike...
Sorry. Kweeg may defend B&B's abomination of canon but not everyone else
here does.
If Star Trek canon never shows the sun setting in a pink sunset on Earth
does that mean B&B can say it never, ever does for the rest of time?
Hell, no Starfleet officer is ever shown taking a dump. Maybe B&B can
remove all heads on starships and say they really are reclaiming for the
space for larger weapons.
|
|
|
| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204186 ] |
Fr, 27 Januar 2006 00:13 |
|
Kweeg wrote:
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:oeednQa_7JA9tUXeRVn-oQ [at] giganews.com...
>
>>Kweeg wrote:
>>
>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>news:WLydnWz-_b6aJkrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Kweeg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:6eudnZNulqKKvkreRVn-oQ [at] giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Kweeg wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:DP2dnW1AY9WYtUveRVn-iw [at] giganews.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Kweeg wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:RvKdnY4wC5URHkjeRVn-vA [at] giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Kweeg wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>eloquently.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Keep trying, sunshine....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bite me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>oohhh no there's a good comeback... you are soo witty.... and you
>
> know
>
>>>>>lots
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>about Star Trek too, you are so smrt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As if *your* "keep trying, sunshine" was sssoooooooooo witty.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>As Kirk once said, "I'm laughing...... at the *superior* intellect"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
>>>>know how to spell Queeg.
>>>
>>>
>>>ahh the spelling mistake argument, that last straw to grasp at when you
>
> have
>
>>>nothing more.... so tell me, person who is not smarter than the average
>>>bear but quickly proving that he actually is allot stupider than an
>
> average
>
>>>bear, >
>>
>>Yep, try to deflect from your own shortcomings. Nice try.
>
>
>
> LOL!
> Are you really that dense of a person or do you just play on the Usenet?
> I'll ask again as apparently you missed the question the first time; (and
> I'm typing as slow as I can so you can keep up) ; what is the right
> spelling, oh wise grammar and spelling sage, Brian or Bryan, Karl or Carl,
> Sean or Shawn? Do you know or will you just exchange the feet again in you
> cavernous mouth? I am still "laughing...... at the *superior* intellect"
>
Your question has no bearing on the spelling issue of Queeg. You
yourself claim to have taken it from Captain Queeg of the "The Caine
Mutiny". Yet you can't even spell it right.
|
|
|
| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204188 ] |
Fr, 27 Januar 2006 01:17 |
|
"Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote
in message news:gLbCf.24778$La4.22396 [at] trndny08...
> "zonker" <zonkerdead [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1138289731.201641.23520 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > continuity problems are through out star trek all of them, one episode
> > the ship can do this and the next it can't what the heck is that.
>
> True
>
> > enterprise was great fun and it actually solved one of the continuity
> > problems, the appearance of the klingons.
>
> But there's the known problem. In TNG Picard said First Contact with the
> Klingons brought "decades of war".
>
> Well, where was the war???
>
> Not to mention NX-01 personnel having "phase pistols" while Pike, Spock et
> al. in "The Menagerie" having *lasers*.
We saw the Pike style weapons twice, once in the pilot and again in The Man
Trap, while the name was different they certainly functioned like
phasers/phase pistols. The team "laser" could have been slang used at the
time. Much the same way as everyone was referring to dilithium cristals as
"lithium crystals" in Mudd's Women.
> Not to mention NX-01 doing a warp 5 while NCC-1701 in "The Menagerie"
barely
> doing warp 7, and NCC-1701 in "Arena" barely holding sustained +7 - all
this
> being 100 years after NX-01.
Your point? 80 years later Picard's ship went as fast as Kirks did AND still
used photon torpedoes.
> So in 100 years they have managed a 2 warp increase - even after all of
> NX-01's "boldly going" and meeting new life, not to mention new
> technologies. Remember the comment in "The Menagerie"? "With our new
> ships..." Hmmm. 2 warp being a radical improvement? And the castaways on
> Talos would therefore have had access to at least warp 5 ships, never mind
a
> good chance of warp 6 ships. Waiting for Enterprise to find them in order
> for a warp 7 ship to be able to actually reach them - the implication of
the
> rescue, that they were a bit "out of the way" prior to a
Constitution-class
> speed vessel showing up 'in the neighborhood' - is rather fantastic.
Your assuming *every* ship was the newest and the best. In TOS it is stated
that the Constitution Class are the newest and best at the time, but there
are only "12 like her in the fleet." and the ships are not that new.
Enterprise having had 2 Captains and "the Ship's most experienced officer"
posted off by the time Kirk assumed command.
> And NX-01's transporter being even faster in operation than NCC-1701 under
> Pike...
Oh heaven forbid the special effects would be different! Did you see the
guys running the transporter under Pike's command? One of them was wearing
glasses and the other looked like he was towards the end of his Starfleet
career.You think that they would be that speedy?
> Sorry. Kweeg may defend B&B's abomination of canon but not everyone else
> here does.
LOL! I certainly don't defend the idiots who drove the franchise into the
ground. But it is you confusing established canon with fanon. Every Star
Trek series has contradicted every other and often themselves. Your examples
are pure speculation on your personal interpretation (fanon not canon) and
weak at best.
> If Star Trek canon never shows the sun setting in a pink sunset on Earth
> does that mean B&B can say it never, ever does for the rest of time?
>
> Hell, no Starfleet officer is ever shown taking a dump. Maybe B&B can
> remove all heads on starships and say they really are reclaiming for the
> space for larger weapons.
You really are delusional in your fanatical jihad against B&B an't you?
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
|
|
|
| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204189 ] |
Fr, 27 Januar 2006 01:26 |
|
"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fNudnTS4SYQSykTeRVn-oA [at] giganews.com...
> >>>>>>>>>>>Must be true if you say so as you've presented you argument so
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>eloquently.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Thank you. One tries to be thorough.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Keep trying, sunshine....
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Bite me.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>oohhh no there's a good comeback... you are soo witty.... and you
> >
> > know
> >
> >>>>>lots
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>about Star Trek too, you are so smrt.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>As if *your* "keep trying, sunshine" was sssoooooooooo witty.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>As Kirk once said, "I'm laughing...... at the *superior* intellect"
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
> >>>>know how to spell Queeg.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>ahh the spelling mistake argument, that last straw to grasp at when you
> >
> > have
> >
> >>>nothing more.... so tell me, person who is not smarter than the
average
> >>>bear but quickly proving that he actually is allot stupider than an
> >
> > average
> >
> >>>bear, >
> >>
> >>Yep, try to deflect from your own shortcomings. Nice try.
> >
> >
> >
> > LOL!
> > Are you really that dense of a person or do you just play on the Usenet?
> > I'll ask again as apparently you missed the question the first time;
(and
> > I'm typing as slow as I can so you can keep up) ; what is the right
> > spelling, oh wise grammar and spelling sage, Brian or Bryan, Karl or
Carl,
> > Sean or Shawn? Do you know or will you just exchange the feet again in
you
> > cavernous mouth? I am still "laughing...... at the *superior* intellect"
> >
>
> Your question has no bearing on the spelling issue of Queeg. You
> yourself claim to have taken it from Captain Queeg of the "The Caine
> Mutiny". Yet you can't even spell it right.
Err it does, your the one that brought up how I spell MY name. I am not
Captain Queeg of "The Caine Mutiny" I have not spelt HIS name wrong. So for
the 3rd time, answer the question, or concede the point.
What is the right spelling, Brian or Bryan, Karl or Carl, Sean or Shawn?
I am still "laughing...... at the *superior* intellect
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
|
|
|
| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204191 ] |
Fr, 27 Januar 2006 02:48 |
|
Kweeg wrote:
> I am not
> Captain Queeg of "The Caine Mutiny" I have not spelt HIS name wrong.
So now you claim you didn't get it from The Caine Mutiny? Make up your
mind.
|
|
|
| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204192 ] |
Fr, 27 Januar 2006 05:06 |
|
"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:GfmdnTDSWcNS5kTeRVn-pA [at] giganews.com...
> Kweeg wrote:
> > I am not
> > Captain Queeg of "The Caine Mutiny" I have not spelt HIS name wrong.
>
> So now you claim you didn't get it from The Caine Mutiny? Make up your
> mind.
Third avoidance noted, answer the question, or concede the point.
What is the right spelling, Brian or Bryan, Karl or Carl, Sean or Shawn?
I am still "laughing...... at the *superior* intellect
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
|
|
|
| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204193 ] |
Fr, 27 Januar 2006 05:13 |
|
"Kweeg" <kweeg [at] nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:3EdCf.227168$tl.160395 [at] pd7tw3no...
> "Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com>
> wrote
> in message news:gLbCf.24778$La4.22396 [at] trndny08...
>> "zonker" <zonkerdead [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1138289731.201641.23520 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > continuity problems are through out star trek all of them, one episode
>> > the ship can do this and the next it can't what the heck is that.
>>
>> True
>>
>> > enterprise was great fun and it actually solved one of the continuity
>> > problems, the appearance of the klingons.
>>
>> But there's the known problem. In TNG Picard said First Contact with the
>> Klingons brought "decades of war".
>>
>> Well, where was the war???
>>
>> Not to mention NX-01 personnel having "phase pistols" while Pike, Spock
>> et
>> al. in "The Menagerie" having *lasers*.
>
> We saw the Pike style weapons twice, once in the pilot and again in The
> Man
> Trap, while the name was different they certainly functioned like
> phasers/phase pistols. The team "laser" could have been slang used at the
> time. Much the same way as everyone was referring to dilithium cristals as
> "lithium crystals" in Mudd's Women.
True we only saw the weapons twice. But twice in TOS is still good enough
to make it canon. ONCE in TOS, TNG et al is good enough to make anything
canon - canon is "it came before".
>> Not to mention NX-01 doing a warp 5 while NCC-1701 in "The Menagerie"
> barely
>> doing warp 7, and NCC-1701 in "Arena" barely holding sustained +7 - all
> this
>> being 100 years after NX-01.
>
> Your point? 80 years later Picard's ship went as fast as Kirks did AND
> still
> used photon torpedoes.
The point is:
At the end of ENT they mentioned the work on the new, faster warp 7 engine
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warp_drive
That is 10 years after the launch of humanity's first warp 5 capable
starship, the Enterprise. So 10 years later they work on warp 7...but 80
years after that they are STILL at warp 7??
If this is true why does the leutenant in "The Menagerie" / "The Cage"
mention "Well the time barrier's been broken! Our new ships can..." when
they haven't broken anything at all? They had warp 7 capable ships 80 years
before that scene. The SS Columbia, the ship that crashed on Talos, left
Earth 18 years prior to Enterprise intercepting the radio signal. This
means that, for sure, they would have left an Earth where (according to
B&B's ST universe) warp 7 would have been a natural fact.
Now Enterprise goes to Talos after Pike orders "time warp 7". This would
have been a normal speed as it had been available according to B&B for at
least 72 years (2251 (average) minus 2161 minus 18 (year crash)).
Yet the leutenant claims this should be a significant difference in speed
versus what the scientists are familiar with along with making hand signs to
Pike when the ship does actually hit warp 7, implying this to be a bit
"special".
On to weapons...
Why does NX-01 have (crude) torpedoes while NCC-1701 (under early Kirk) have
none (I'll ignore Pike as we cannot prove yea or nay)? If NCC-1701 had even
NX-01's torpedoes why didn't Kirk use them against the Romulan warbird in
"Balance of Terror" when the phaser banks failed?
> Your assuming *every* ship was the newest and the best. In TOS it is
> stated
> that the Constitution Class are the newest and best at the time, but there
> are only "12 like her in the fleet." and the ships are not that new.
> Enterprise having had 2 Captains and "the Ship's most experienced officer"
> posted off by the time Kirk assumed command.
But still - warp 7 would not have been anything special for NCC-1701, either
under Pike or Kirk, as we have factually proved that as per B&B warp 7 ships
existed for at least 72 years (Pike) or approx. 87 years (Kirk).
Unless they recurved the warp calculations. So...um...we're supposed to
take yet *another* recurve, this time without any official claim?
>> And NX-01's transporter being even faster in operation than NCC-1701
>> under
>> Pike...
>
> Oh heaven forbid the special effects would be different! Did you see the
> guys running the transporter under Pike's command? One of them was wearing
> glasses and the other looked like he was towards the end of his Starfleet
> career.You think that they would be that speedy?
I think most fans would agree the transporter shouldn't have existed at
*all* on NX-01. And if you are going to make the device first generation
you should make it terrible inefficent and cumbersome - which they tried at
first (for all of 1 or 2 seasons...)
> You really are delusional in your fanatical jihad against B&B an't you?
BECAUSE IT'S EASY. Common sense can be used proving many points - as I did
here - to show how things should have progressed. We aren't jumping to
conclusions when almost anyone can put 2 + 2 together by replaying scenes
and get a logical timeline.
A timeline B&B completely threw out.
If it took 100 years to make a warp 5 engine from Cochrane's engine, then 10
years to make a warp 7, 100 years later in Kirk time still staying stuck at
warp 8 emergency only? Without a recurve?
Please.
Enterprise should have been warp 3. First steps into the universe, and
there would have been PLENTY of opportunity for *logical* adventure once
people were made to understand events that happened took much longer time to
occur than TOS. But B&B got impatient and wanted things to happen quickly -
from phase pistols to transporters to hull plating to warp speeds.
B&B played very loose with canon, and they paid for it. Boo, hoo, I should
feel SO sorry that ENT got shitcanned because nobody wanted to see it. Boo
hoo, B&B actually didn't do anything wrong.
And where's the Klingon problem? 4.5 years of ENT and Klingons weren't in
the fore very much. Bringing in the Klingons that early, and with a whimper
rather than a bang, was yet another B&B screwup.
You want canon? It could have been very easy. Humans get into space with
their first warp 3/4 starship and start exploring. After lengthy travels
they start meeting up with alien colonies and vessels traveling to and fro
in space. The humans start their own explorations and start interacting
with the alien cultures. The aliens have a bit of a classic problem, one
somewhat long standing - an alien race that call themselves "Klingon". Most
races avoid contact as much as possible.
The humans meet their first Klingon - and friction starts. Battles ensue,
but the humans are rather outclassed. This happened to some of the species
the humans met with first - so the humans start strategic friendships to
help with the "Klingon problem".
There you go. Beginning of exploration. Beginnings of Federation.
Beginnings of Klingon wars, Neutral Zone, more rapid technological
developments.
All fits into recognized Star Trek pattern.
But no. B&B wanted time travel to be the center of their stories - **just
like always**. Berman makes Enterprise a model for time travel stories -
and shitcans the entire Trek universe. Paradox? The entire Enterprise
series is finding solutions to a constant paradox created to make "stories".
|
|
|
| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204194 ] |
Fr, 27 Januar 2006 12:12 |
|
Kweeg wrote:
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:GfmdnTDSWcNS5kTeRVn-pA [at] giganews.com...
>
>>Kweeg wrote:
>>
>>>I am not
>>>Captain Queeg of "The Caine Mutiny" I have not spelt HIS name wrong.
>>
>>So now you claim you didn't get it from The Caine Mutiny? Make up your
>>mind.
>
>
> Third avoidance noted, answer the question, or concede the point.
> What is the right spelling, Brian or Bryan, Karl or Carl, Sean or Shawn?
> I am still "laughing...... at the *superior* intellect
>
Yes, your third avoidance noted. Why you narc on yourself I don't know.
|
|
|
| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204195 ] |
Fr, 27 Januar 2006 13:06 |
|
"Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote
in message news:76hCf.2014$Yi5.183 [at] trndny02...
> "Kweeg" <kweeg [at] nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:3EdCf.227168$tl.160395 [at] pd7tw3no...
> > "Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com>
> > wrote
> > in message news:gLbCf.24778$La4.22396 [at] trndny08...
> >> "zonker" <zonkerdead [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1138289731.201641.23520 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> > continuity problems are through out star trek all of them, one
episode
> >> > the ship can do this and the next it can't what the heck is that.
> >>
> >> True
> >>
> >> > enterprise was great fun and it actually solved one of the continuity
> >> > problems, the appearance of the klingons.
> >>
> >> But there's the known problem. In TNG Picard said First Contact with
the
> >> Klingons brought "decades of war".
> >>
> >> Well, where was the war???
> >>
> >> Not to mention NX-01 personnel having "phase pistols" while Pike, Spock
> >> et
> >> al. in "The Menagerie" having *lasers*.
> >
> > We saw the Pike style weapons twice, once in the pilot and again in The
> > Man
> > Trap, while the name was different they certainly functioned like
> > phasers/phase pistols. The team "laser" could have been slang used at
the
> > time. Much the same way as everyone was referring to dilithium cristals
as
> > "lithium crystals" in Mudd's Women.
>
> True we only saw the weapons twice. But twice in TOS is still good enough
> to make it canon. ONCE in TOS, TNG et al is good enough to make anything
> canon - canon is "it came before".
>
> >> Not to mention NX-01 doing a warp 5 while NCC-1701 in "The Menagerie"
> > barely
> >> doing warp 7, and NCC-1701 in "Arena" barely holding sustained +7 - all
> > this
> >> being 100 years after NX-01.
> >
> > Your point? 80 years later Picard's ship went as fast as Kirks did AND
> > still
> > used photon torpedoes.
>
> The point is:
>
> At the end of ENT they mentioned the work on the new, faster warp 7 engine
>
> http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Warp_drive
>
> That is 10 years after the launch of humanity's first warp 5 capable
> starship, the Enterprise. So 10 years later they work on warp 7...but 80
> years after that they are STILL at warp 7??
>
> If this is true why does the leutenant in "The Menagerie" / "The Cage"
> mention "Well the time barrier's been broken! Our new ships can..." when
> they haven't broken anything at all? They had warp 7 capable ships 80
years
> before that scene. The SS Columbia, the ship that crashed on Talos, left
> Earth 18 years prior to Enterprise intercepting the radio signal. This
> means that, for sure, they would have left an Earth where (according to
> B&B's ST universe) warp 7 would have been a natural fact.
>
> Now Enterprise goes to Talos after Pike orders "time warp 7". This would
> have been a normal speed as it had been available according to B&B for at
> least 72 years (2251 (average) minus 2161 minus 18 (year crash)).
>
> Yet the leutenant claims this should be a significant difference in speed
> versus what the scientists are familiar with along with making hand signs
to
> Pike when the ship does actually hit warp 7, implying this to be a bit
> "special".
>
> On to weapons...
>
> Why does NX-01 have (crude) torpedoes while NCC-1701 (under early Kirk)
have
> none (I'll ignore Pike as we cannot prove yea or nay)? If NCC-1701 had
even
> NX-01's torpedoes why didn't Kirk use them against the Romulan warbird in
> "Balance of Terror" when the phaser banks failed?
That's a fabulous episode but the writer completely fuxx0red up the weapons
systems, using phasers as torpedoes. Kirk even has them set for "proximity
fuses", and every time we see them they're pulse weapons that look like
photon torpedoes.
I daresay it's possible to come up with some convoluted explanation of this,
but it's probably better just to accept that nobody was caring much about
continuity at that point.
In general tho I agree that the whole NX-01's design is waaaaaaaay too
advanced for its time and as such breaks continuity. The worst thing for me
is the desperation to give the ship shields, so they come up with this
nonsense of polarised hull plating, then they use it precisely like shields
("hull plating at 15% captain). If you're really talking about a smart
material that gets harder when you polarise it, it wouldn't take percentile
or temporary damage. Talking about it being "at 15%" would be meaningless-
all that would matter would be whether the enemy have blown a hole in it in
some specific place or not. And every time it took damage, you'd have to get
out and physically replace it. Imagine body armour. If somebody's just shot
a bullet through it, you wouldn't say "my armour is at 98%". You wouldn't
say anything in fact, because you've just been shot.
[I'm not sure there's ever been a good explanation of "shields at 15%"
either, come to that. It seems to be used to mean that they're at full
strength until 0% rather than having 15% of their strength. The only
reaosonable explanation I can come up with is that the shield generators
have to dump the energy they're absorbing somewhere, and can only absorb so
much- after which they need to shut down and cool down before being used
again. Starships seem to have an effectively unlimited supply of energy, so
it makes no sense to say that the shields are running out of power.]
Ian
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204197 ] |
Fr, 27 Januar 2006 17:07 |
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"Jaxtraw" <jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote in message
news:43da0b8a$0$29572$da0feed9 [at] news.zen.co.uk...
> [I'm not sure there's ever been a good explanation of "shields at 15%"
> either, come to that. It seems to be used to mean that they're at full
> strength until 0% rather than having 15% of their strength. The only
> reaosonable explanation I can come up with is that the shield generators
> have to dump the energy they're absorbing somewhere, and can only absorb
> so
> much- after which they need to shut down and cool down before being used
> again.
Actually that's exactly what the Tech Manuals imply.
> Starships seem to have an effectively unlimited supply of energy, so
> it makes no sense to say that the shields are running out of power.]
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204198 ] |
Fr, 27 Januar 2006 18:41 |
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"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:GuednUfotY1hYkTenZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
--
Qa ' PLONK
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204200 ] |
Fr, 27 Januar 2006 23:19 |
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Kweeg wrote:
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:GuednUfotY1hYkTenZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>
Yep, ran away when he couldn't answer up.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204214 ] |
So, 29 Januar 2006 20:26 |
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Kweeg wrote:
> <allemannster [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1137956184.058906.244470 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal Cold
>> War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and therefore
>> interfere with the other series).
>>
>> Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek
>> canon?
>
>
> Have a read of:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_%28television%29
> and alleged continuity problems:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Enterprise_alleged_c ontinuity_problems
>
> If your not asking a rhetorical question here and really did actually
> watch Enterprise and still had problems or couldn't follow it I don't
> think I or anyone else could use words small enough for you to
> understand it.
Interesting reads... Very well witten.
Some explanations however feel somewhat ... overly contrived. If the writers
had paid more attention to what was established there wouldn't have been a
controversy.
The greatest problems I personally have are: cloaking technology,
laser/phase pistols (although that 'slang' interpretation is a very cool
one, I like it!), the appearance of the 'BoT' type Romulan vessels (no
painting of birds or wings, but maybe that was only in official campaigns),
non-corporeals (the Wiki explanation makes Spock's statement extremely
dense).
My feeling is that if Mister Coto had been involved from the beginning they
might not have so much controversy.
Personally I would have made a number of changes:
- In stead of Enterprise I would have called the ship the 'Phoenix' (to
honor Cochrane's vessel).
- I would have deleted the Temporal Cold war story line and the first two
seasons and would have shortened the Xindy stuff to a story arc of between
three and seven episodes. It did contain some great stuff: The weapon they
were building, the spheres, that TARDIS type ship.
- Probably used several different actors. Bakula was great in 'Quantum Leap'
and several movies, but this time... It's probably the way his character was
written though... Who would I have cast? Good question! Maybe someone like
Richard Dean Anderson.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204215 ] |
So, 29 Januar 2006 21:06 |
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"Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
news:43dd16fe$0$11071$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl...
> Kweeg wrote:
> > <allemannster [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1137956184.058906.244470 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal Cold
> >> War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and therefore
> >> interfere with the other series).
> >>
> >> Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek
> >> canon?
> >
> >
> > Have a read of:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_%28television%29
> > and alleged continuity problems:
> >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Enterprise_alleged_c ontinuity_problems
> >
> > If your not asking a rhetorical question here and really did actually
> > watch Enterprise and still had problems or couldn't follow it I don't
> > think I or anyone else could use words small enough for you to
> > understand it.
>
>
> Interesting reads... Very well witten.
> Some explanations however feel somewhat ... overly contrived. If the
writers
> had paid more attention to what was established there wouldn't have been a
> controversy.
>
> The greatest problems I personally have are: cloaking technology,
> laser/phase pistols (although that 'slang' interpretation is a very cool
> one, I like it!), the appearance of the 'BoT' type Romulan vessels (no
> painting of birds or wings, but maybe that was only in official
campaigns),
> non-corporeals (the Wiki explanation makes Spock's statement extremely
> dense).
>
> My feeling is that if Mister Coto had been involved from the beginning
they
> might not have so much controversy.
> Personally I would have made a number of changes:
> - In stead of Enterprise I would have called the ship the 'Phoenix' (to
> honor Cochrane's vessel).
> - I would have deleted the Temporal Cold war story line and the first two
> seasons and would have shortened the Xindy stuff to a story arc of between
> three and seven episodes. It did contain some great stuff: The weapon they
> were building, the spheres, that TARDIS type ship.
> - Probably used several different actors. Bakula was great in 'Quantum
Leap'
> and several movies, but this time... It's probably the way his character
was
> written though... Who would I have cast? Good question! Maybe someone
like
> Richard Dean Anderson.
Agree with you on Coto, he could have turned out a good show. I would have
thought it would be a no brainier to do a prequel. The exploration stuff,
the "problems" with the Klingons, the getting the *known* ST races together,
a bit of the Earth Romulan War followed by the founding of the Federation
show. It should have written itself, insofar as the bad guys, drama,
potential skulduggery and intrigue. But what did we get, an invented
(stupid) temporal cold-war and the made up zindi arc. Sad as it could have
been a good show for the fan and non-fan alike.
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204218 ] |
Mo, 30 Januar 2006 00:02 |
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Kweeg wrote:
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> news:43dd16fe$0$11071$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl...
>> Kweeg wrote:
>>> <allemannster [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1137956184.058906.244470 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal
>>>> Cold War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and
>>>> therefore interfere with the other series).
>>>>
>>>> Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek
>>>> canon?
>>>
>>>
>>> Have a read of:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_%28television%29
>>> and alleged continuity problems:
>>>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Enterprise_alleged_c ontinuity_problems
>>>
>>> If your not asking a rhetorical question here and really did
>>> actually watch Enterprise and still had problems or couldn't follow
>>> it I don't think I or anyone else could use words small enough for
>>> you to understand it.
>>
>>
>> Interesting reads... Very well witten.
>> Some explanations however feel somewhat ... overly contrived. If the
>> writers had paid more attention to what was established there
>> wouldn't have been a controversy.
>>
>> The greatest problems I personally have are: cloaking technology,
>> laser/phase pistols (although that 'slang' interpretation is a very
>> cool one, I like it!), the appearance of the 'BoT' type Romulan
>> vessels (no painting of birds or wings, but maybe that was only in
>> official campaigns), non-corporeals (the Wiki explanation makes
>> Spock's statement extremely dense).
>>
>> My feeling is that if Mister Coto had been involved from the
>> beginning they might not have so much controversy.
>> Personally I would have made a number of changes:
>> - In stead of Enterprise I would have called the ship the 'Phoenix'
>> (to honor Cochrane's vessel).
>> - I would have deleted the Temporal Cold war story line and the
>> first two seasons and would have shortened the Xindy stuff to a
>> story arc of between three and seven episodes. It did contain some
>> great stuff: The weapon they were building, the spheres, that TARDIS
>> type ship. - Probably used several different actors. Bakula was
>> great in 'Quantum Leap' and several movies, but this time... It's
>> probably the way his character was written though... Who would I
>> have cast? Good question! Maybe someone like Richard Dean Anderson.
>
> Agree with you on Coto, he could have turned out a good show. I would
> have thought it would be a no brainier to do a prequel. The
> exploration stuff, the "problems" with the Klingons, the getting the
> *known* ST races together, a bit of the Earth Romulan War followed by
> the founding of the Federation show. It should have written itself,
> insofar as the bad guys, drama, potential skulduggery and intrigue.
> But what did we get, an invented (stupid) temporal cold-war and the
> made up zindi arc. Sad as it could have been a good show for the fan
> and non-fan alike.
Indeed. Just follow the established patterns by previous shows and put some
meat on those bones.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The world that denies thee, thou inhabit.
The peace that ignores thee, thou corrupt.
Chaos. I remain, as ever, thy faithful, degenerate son."
Ethan Rayne, 'Halloween' (Buffy The Vampire Slayer)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204219 ] |
Mo, 30 Januar 2006 00:08 |
|
"Kweeg" <kweeg [at] nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Ve9Df.480911$ki.30725 [at] pd7tw2no...
> "Wouter Valentijn" <liam [at] valentijn.nu> wrote in message
> news:43dd16fe$0$11071$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl...
> > Kweeg wrote:
> > > <allemannster [at] gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1137956184.058906.244470 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >> The whole Xindi thing is extremely confusing, as is the Temporal Cold
> > >> War. Both of the arcs seem to interfere with TOS (and therefore
> > >> interfere with the other series).
> > >>
> > >> Can someone explain how either of the two arcs fit into Star Trek
> > >> canon?
> > >
> > >
> > > Have a read of:
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_%28television%29
> > > and alleged continuity problems:
> > >
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Enterprise_alleged_c ontinuity_problems
> > >
> > > If your not asking a rhetorical question here and really did actually
> > > watch Enterprise and still had problems or couldn't follow it I don't
> > > think I or anyone else could use words small enough for you to
> > > understand it.
> >
> >
> > Interesting reads... Very well witten.
> > Some explanations however feel somewhat ... overly contrived. If the
> writers
> > had paid more attention to what was established there wouldn't have been
a
> > controversy.
> >
> > The greatest problems I personally have are: cloaking technology,
> > laser/phase pistols (although that 'slang' interpretation is a very cool
> > one, I like it!), the appearance of the 'BoT' type Romulan vessels (no
> > painting of birds or wings, but maybe that was only in official
> campaigns),
> > non-corporeals (the Wiki explanation makes Spock's statement extremely
> > dense).
> >
> > My feeling is that if Mister Coto had been involved from the beginning
> they
> > might not have so much controversy.
> > Personally I would have made a number of changes:
> > - In stead of Enterprise I would have called the ship the 'Phoenix' (to
> > honor Cochrane's vessel).
> > - I would have deleted the Temporal Cold war story line and the first
two
> > seasons and would have shortened the Xindy stuff to a story arc of
between
> > three and seven episodes. It did contain some great stuff: The weapon
they
> > were building, the spheres, that TARDIS type ship.
> > - Probably used several different actors. Bakula was great in 'Quantum
> Leap'
> > and several movies, but this time... It's probably the way his character
> was
> > written though... Who would I have cast? Good question! Maybe someone
> like
> > Richard Dean Anderson.
>
> Agree with you on Coto, he could have turned out a good show. I would have
> thought it would be a no brainier to do a prequel. The exploration stuff,
> the "problems" with the Klingons, the getting the *known* ST races
together,
> a bit of the Earth Romulan War followed by the founding of the Federation
> show. It should have written itself, insofar as the bad guys, drama,
> potential skulduggery and intrigue. But what did we get, an invented
> (stupid) temporal cold-war and the made up zindi arc. Sad as it could have
> been a good show for the fan and non-fan alike.
> --
>
It seems pretty obvious with hindsight that they had no idea what they
intended to do with the series. There was not even the most general of
plans. It was conceived purely as another setting for run of the mill
Trekisodes, a formula which had already fallen apart with Voyager.
Ian
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