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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS
Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #158430] Mo, 31 Oktober 2005 01:12
ToolPackinMama  
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/tossex.htm
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #158431 ] Mo, 31 Oktober 2005 01:23
ToolPackinMama  
ToolPackinMama wrote:
> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/tossex.htm

For those of you who don't know how to click a link, here's the text
version:
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #158432 ] Mo, 31 Oktober 2005 01:24
ToolPackinMama  
> For those of you who don't know how to click a link, here's the text
> version:


Star Trek was not a sexist show. It was in fact an anti-sexist show. In
TOS, women were respected, and well represented. We met female queens,
priestesses, soldiers, warriors, villains, and heroines. Virtually all
of the Star Trek women had careers, and were self-supporting. Working
women in the TOS universe are the norm, not the exception.

Sexist, no, sexy, yes! In TOS, women didn't have to choose between being
good but sexless, or sexy but bad. The heroines, queens and warriors
etc. of TOS were sexy, too, and that was OK.

It was beyond OK: it was revolutionary. You see, the sexiness of the TOS
women was meant to represent sexual liberation. In the future, the women
are as sexually free as the men are.

The relationship between the sexes was very interestingly portrayed in
the original Star Trek. This was an important part of Gene Roddenberry's
overall vision of a possible future society.

One complaint TOS critics voice about TOS is that they think the women's
uniforms are too sexy. The fact that the women's tunics are really short
and that the women of the TOS crew are therefore always showing lots o'
leg really bugs some people. Some people say TOS is "non-PC" because the
women look sexy to us. I'd like to speak to this.

First of all, short-short mini-dresses were the fashion rage at the time
TOS was being produced, so to the audience of the day, it wasn't that
shocking. I remember buying dresses for school that were so short that
they were sold with matching panties. Big whoop! What was shocking was
that panty-hose didn't come into common use until a year or two after
the hemlines rose. Us teen schoolgirls were begging our mothers for the
fancy new short-short panty girdles to hold our hose up, so we could
wear the new fashions without showing two inches of lace and spandex
below the hem. Boys reacted to the sight of this bit of lace the way
bulls react to red flags, and we were concerned about arousing them
unduly, especially during school hours.

THAT'S HOW OLD I AM!

In any case, the sexy clothes, etc. of the Star Trek women actually
represents sexual self-expression. Those women are unashamededly sexy,
for their own reasons, and they bloody well, ding-dong know what they
are doing. They are using their beauty and sexual power for their own
purposes.

Now look: people of the future, like people of any time and place you
can name, will think things are sexy or not sexy depending on how they
are socialized. It's pretty clear that TOS-era men and women are 100%
casual about the sight of women's bare legs, to such an extent that the
military issues these skimpy uniforms. The military of the future is as
likely to play a leadership role in fashion as they do now. It's safe to
assume that, to TOS-era people, bare legs for women is considered to be
a practical and conservative mode of dress, the way long skirts seemed
practical to women and men of the 1800's.

Have you ever tried walking up a flight of stairs in a long, full skirt?
No way is *that* practical for military women.

So why don't the women of TOS wear trousers? First of all, some do.
Second, trousers are primarily for men. The sexes still like to
distinguish themselves with their mode of dress in the 2200s, and
apparently they use skirts to do it.

Why should the women conceal their legs if it's not considered immodest
to display them? In tropical climates among simple native peoples, the
only difference between the men and women is men wear breechcloths and
women don't, or men and women wear their beads differently. In some
societies women can run around perfectly naked, and be considered
perfectly decent as they do so. If people can do that now, why not 200
years from now?

TOS women aboard the starship live in a cozy climate-controlled
environment, and they are surrounded by nothing but decent, respectful
men who are their buddies and comrades. What do they have to worry about?

I'll tell you what they worry about: they worry about how to make the
men look at them as if they are women, and not just buddies and
comrades. In "Miri" Yeoman Rand tearfully confesses to Kirk that she has
wanted him to look at her legs. What she means by this is she wants him
to see her as a woman, not just as a person. She has to ASK him to look:
to see her that way.

Apparently TOS men are so inured to the sight of women's bare legs that
they don't even think of them as sexy. What makes a TOS-era woman sexy
to their men, then, if displaying their gams doesn't do it?

Apparently TOS women have to be assertive. The men aboard the Enterprise
need situational and behavioral cues to release their inhibitions. They
need a party, or a romantic setting. They also need the women to behave
flirtatiously. If a woman behaves in a matter-of-fact fashion, the men
respond in kind, but if she flirts with her eyes and/or adopts an
inviting tone of voice and manner, the guys just light up and everything
changes.

It's interesting to note that a TOS man is careful to remain neutral
toward a woman if she's not specifically flirting with him.

The women of "Mudd's women" were outlandish mainly because they acted
flirtatiously with everybody (except Eve, who was a little more
conservative). As a consequence, guys were swooning all around them. I
KNOW there was a drug involved, but that same episode at the climax made
the point that it mostly was thanks to *attitude*, not the drug. The
drug made the women feel sexy, so they acted sexy, and the men responded
accordingly.

TOS men often immediately flirt back if they are flirted with, but not
always. They reserve the right to not flirt back. If a guy doesn't like
a girl "that way", or if he's not in the mood, then he doesn't flirt
back and that is the end of it. Unless the woman is a savage.

When the famous green chick, Marta, in "Whom Gods Destroy" was all over
Kirk, he did not flirt back. What was horrifying is that she didn't take
the hint. That's how you knew she was savage, or crazy, or (as it turned
out) both.

IMHO, in "City on the edge of forever", Kirk never made it past first
base with Edith Keeler because their two different courtship styles
clashed. She played cool and kept him at arm's length because, where she
comes from, women are passive and men are supposed to be the aggressors.
Kirk didn't push because, where he comes from, a guy doesn't move on a
lady until she gives him a clear sign that she expects him to. Neither
one of them were getting the cues they needed to give the other the
green light, so they were deadlocked, despite a fierce mutual attraction.

NOTE: The two times that Kirk has sex in TOS (with Mirimanee, and with
Deela), he is not the sexual aggressor. The situation was created for
him, and he just reacts to it. It isn't the woman's state of dress or
undress that matters. The situation, and the woman's attitude is what
matters. In each case it's very clear the woman invited his embrace.

In the future depicted in Star Trek, it's the women who control the
sexual action. The few exceptions we see (example, Space Seed's traitor
Marla McGivers) are clearly aberrant.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #158433 ] Mo, 31 Oktober 2005 01:26
ToolPackinMama  
I don't know how to help you guys who can't read a usenet post.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #158480 ] Mo, 31 Oktober 2005 06:59
lawson  
On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:26:05 -0500, ToolPackinMama
<laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote:

>I don't know how to help you guys who can't read a usenet post.

4 tries for one lame post. Damn, you're a stupid nagging bitch. You
must have had a lot of shit beat out of you early...yet you
replenished. Now you look like Madelyn Murray O'Hair.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #158506 ] Mo, 31 Oktober 2005 09:22
Bo Raxo  
"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:-OudnQRQEfDS-fjeRVn-uQ [at] comcast.com...
>
> > For those of you who don't know how to click a link, here's the text
> > version:
>
>
> Star Trek was not a sexist show. It was in fact an anti-sexist show. In
> TOS, women were respected, and well represented.

Let's examine that:

>We met female queens,

Like the one in Friday's Child, who was sentenced to death? Or like Elaan
of Troyius, sent off for an arranged marriage?
Oh yeah, really respected.

> priestesses,

Like the one in Spock's brain - to run their society, they needed a man's
brain to serve as the controller.

Sounds a tad sexist to me.

>soldiers,

I don't recall any. There was Mara, who was a Klingon, but I didn't see
anything to suggest she was specifically a soldier.

>warriors,

In TOS? Who?


>villains,

Yes, plenty of those. As I pointed out in another post, they were a
collection of female stereotypes: vain, manipulative, weak willed.



>and heroines.

Uh, when in TOS did a woman ever save the day? They got all helpless and
waited for a man to hold them. Even the female starfleet officers were weak
: In the Lights of Zetar, our female officer asks Scotty to comfort her,
'cause she's scared. In Space Seed, a woman betrays her oath, her duty, and
her fellow crew members for love. In Who Mourns for Adonis a woman is
blinded by love to the danger, and even when they do enlist her to help save
the day, her role is to distract the villain by being charming.

Seriously, when did women ever save the day?

>Virtually all
> of the Star Trek women had careers, and were self-supporting.

Let's see: we had a nurse and a glorified telephone operator. Oh yeah, not
sexist at all. The only female scientist I can recall from TOS was Janice
Lester, and she was hardly a positive portrayal - she was so envious of men,
she wanted to become one.

In fact, most of the women you see are there because of a man: The actress
travelling in a troupe with her actor father, the Klingon Kara who is there
because she's Kang's wife, Nancy Crater who is there with her husband at the
archeological dig. Mudd's Women, off to marriages for money.

Number of female security officers in TOS: Zero
Number of female engineers in TOS: Zero
Number of female captains in TOS: Zero
Number of female first officers in TOS: One, and the network didn't like it
and had the character axed
Number of female helmsmen in TOS: Zero

'Nuff said.


Bo Raxo
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #158514 ] Mo, 31 Oktober 2005 10:50
sdlitvin  
Bo Raxo wrote:

> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
> news:-OudnQRQEfDS-fjeRVn-uQ [at] comcast.com...
>
>>>For those of you who don't know how to click a link, here's the text
>>>version:
>>
>>
>>Star Trek was not a sexist show. It was in fact an anti-sexist show. In
>>TOS, women were respected, and well represented.

"ToolPackinMama" tends to rewrite history to shoehorn it into her
philosophy.



>
>
>>priestesses,
>
>
> Like the one in Spock's brain - to run their society, they needed a man's
> brain to serve as the controller.

They needed a Vulcan's brain, not necessarily a man's brain.


>
> Sounds a tad sexist to me.
>
>
>>soldiers,
>
>
> I don't recall any.

In "The Enterprise Incident," the captain of the Romulan vessel which
captured the Enterprise was female.

The rebel leader in "The Cloud Minders" was female.

>
>
> Uh, when in TOS did a woman ever save the day?

Lt. Uhura worked with Kirk to rescue the Enterprise in that episode with
the spores on Omicron Ceti Three.


>>Virtually all
>>of the Star Trek women had careers, and were self-supporting.
>
>
> Let's see: we had a nurse and a glorified telephone operator. Oh yeah, not
> sexist at all.

For the 1960's, the Uhura character was way ahead of its time. We're
talking about having a female officer (lieutenant) on the bridge of a
major ship. That was truly science fiction in the 1960's.

The 1960's was a time when NASA was opposed to sending any female
astronauts into space, even after Russia had already sent female
cosmonauts into space. (The U.S. never launched female astronauts into
space until the Space Shuttle program.)

The 1960's was a time when the idea of mixed-gender crews was unheard
of. In the episode "Tomorrow is Yesterday," the 1960's fighter pilot
Captain Christopher is startled to see female crewmembers on the
Enterprise.

Star Trek's attitudes toward women were probably more enlightened than
what could be seen elsewhere on TV. Take a look at how women were
portrayed in sitcoms, for example. They were the loyal and dutiful
housewives. Career women weren't really portrayed till the 1970's.

As late as the mid 1960's, women were supposed to be homemakers. That
was their role in life. I remember reading a high-school biology
*textbook* that said as much.


--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #159969 ] Mo, 31 Oktober 2005 17:28
Bones  
If I may take up ToolPackinMama's side on this. . .

I think she was refering to the status on women on board the
Enterprise, and by extension the Federation. The episodes of "Friday's
Child" and "Elaan of Troyus" were not about Federation women. Look up
he comments on barbarians.

Number of female security officers in TOS: Let's see, like all red
shirts (or in this case skirts) I can't rmember her name. How about the
one that was killed in "By any Other Name"

Number of female warriors? What would you call all the women on the
Enterprise? No one is aboard the ship to be a warrior first, but when
the situation requires it the women of the Enterprise are just as much
in the fight as the men are.

Number of female engineers in TOS: All right, not a major character,
but see the episode "Alternative Factor."

Number of female captains in TOS: Zero -- I'll grant this one. But how
many captains did we see?

Number of female first officers in TOS: Zero -- I'll grant this one
too, although it should be noted that we only saw one Male first
officer -- and he wasn't human. I'd say there are just not enought
facts for this one.

Number of female helmsmen in TOS: Depends upon what you mean by
helmsman, but I can count at least three.

What is more to the point here is that TOS was very progressive in its
male-female relationships for a show produced in the 60's -- light
years ahead of its contemporaries and ahead of most modern programs to
boot. Yes, there were some sexist things on Star Trek. What is unique
is not how many times it did occur, but rather how few.

And to ToolPackinMama, I don't always agree with you but I very much
respect you as a Star Trek fan. I am appalled by some of the nasty
things I have seen written about you in recent posts. I am positive
that most of the real fans would join me in supporting your rights to
express your ST related opinions.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #159990 ] Mo, 31 Oktober 2005 20:42
ANIM8Rfsk  
in article 1130776095.513884.150520 [at] g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Bones at
mahop1 [at] yahoo.com wrote on 10/31/05 9:28 AM:

> If I may take up ToolPackinMama's side on this. . .

Usually a mistake. :-)
>
> I think she was refering to the status on women on board the
> Enterprise, and by extension the Federation. The episodes of "Friday's
> Child" and "Elaan of Troyus" were not about Federation women. Look up
> he comments on barbarians.

T'Pau of Vulcan wasn't a barbarian, and turned down a seat on the Federation
Council.
>
> Number of female security officers in TOS: Let's see, like all red
> shirts (or in this case skirts) I can't rmember her name. How about the
> one that was killed in "By any Other Name"
>
> Number of female warriors? What would you call all the women on the
> Enterprise? No one is aboard the ship to be a warrior first, but when
> the situation requires it the women of the Enterprise are just as much
> in the fight as the men are.

Some, like that historian, what's her name, are busy fighting on the other
side.
>
> Number of female engineers in TOS: All right, not a major character,
> but see the episode "Alternative Factor."

Plus I assume the woman that blew up Scotty in Wolf in the Fold must have
been working in Engineering.
>
> Number of female captains in TOS: Zero -- I'll grant this one. But how
> many captains did we see?

A few. Janice Lester said there were no female captains, but she was nuts.

And we saw a female ROMULAN captain.
>
> Number of female first officers in TOS: Zero -- I'll grant this one
> too, although it should be noted that we only saw one Male first
> officer -- and he wasn't human. I'd say there are just not enought
> facts for this one.

You shouldn't grant that, as it's not true. The Enterprise had a female
first officer. We saw her in The Cage and The Menagerie.
>
> Number of female helmsmen in TOS: Depends upon what you mean by
> helmsman, but I can count at least three.
>
> What is more to the point here is that TOS was very progressive in its
> male-female relationships for a show produced in the 60's -- light
> years ahead of its contemporaries and ahead of most modern programs to
> boot. Yes, there were some sexist things on Star Trek. What is unique
> is not how many times it did occur, but rather how few.

And we saw female prosecutors, doctors, diplomats, etc etc.
>
> And to ToolPackinMama, I don't always agree with you but I very much
> respect you as a Star Trek fan. I am appalled by some of the nasty
> things I have seen written about you in recent posts.

You misspelled 'accurate'

I am positive
> that most of the real fans would join me in supporting your rights to
> express your ST related opinions.
s
You realize her stated purpose is only to disrupt and destroy the group and
bend them to her will? She doesn't give a damn about Star Trek, except as a
means to an end.

--

You Can't Stop the Signal
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #160025 ] Mi, 02 November 2005 05:02
shnaggletooth  
Bo Raxo wrote: day?
>
> >Virtually all
> > of the Star Trek women had careers, and were self-supporting.
>
> Let's see: we had a nurse and a glorified telephone operator. Oh yeah, not
> sexist at all. The only female scientist I can recall from TOS was Janice
> Lester, and she was hardly a positive portrayal - she was so envious of men,
> she wanted to become one.
>
> In fact, most of the women you see are there because of a man: The actress
> travelling in a troupe with her actor father, the Klingon Kara who is there
> because she's Kang's wife, Nancy Crater who is there with her husband at the
> archeological dig. Mudd's Women, off to marriages for money.
>
> Number of female security officers in TOS: Zero
> Number of female engineers in TOS: Zero
> Number of female captains in TOS: Zero
> Number of female first officers in TOS: One, and the network didn't like it
> and had the character axed
> Number of female helmsmen in TOS: Zero

You're forgetting Dr. Miranda Jones and Dr.Mulhall (both played by
Diana Muldaur). Dr.Jones was supposed to some kind of legendary
scientist, even if she was a screwup.

You're correct that we never saw any TOS females who held a
command-level rank. Lots of female lieutenants, though. Uhuru as a
senior bridge officer had authority over 95% of the Enterprise crew (I
also remember a couple times when she manned navigation during
emergencies.) There was also Federation representative Nancy Hedford,
who had some authority even over Kirk.

However, I think the absence of any women engineers kind of seals it as
per TOS sexism. In addition to saying that engineering is a "man's
job", it also implies that there's no women on the track for a
command-level position, as a year's experience working in the
engineering department is one of the requirements to being promoted to
command-level (unless you're a physician). No question that there was
some level of sexism aboard the Enterprise and in Starfleet.

Shnaggletooth
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #162167 ] So, 06 November 2005 01:53
Barbi Satin  
"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:Ebqdnc-E8NH9_PjeRVn-vg [at] comcast.com...
> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/tossex.htm


I always thought the female TOS uniform should have included shoulder
length leather gloves and a whip to go with the boots.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #162168 ] So, 06 November 2005 03:11
Barbi Satin  
"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:Ebqdnc-E8NH9_PjeRVn-vg [at] comcast.com...
> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/tossex.htm

http://sauceruney.com/images/vanilla/1197.jpg
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #162179 ] So, 06 November 2005 08:12
ToolPackinMama  
Barbi Satin wrote:
> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
> news:Ebqdnc-E8NH9_PjeRVn-vg [at] comcast.com...
>
>>http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/tossex.htm
>
>
>
> I always thought the female TOS uniform should have included shoulder
> length leather gloves and a whip to go with the boots.

Like in Mirror, Mirror? :)
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #162180 ] So, 06 November 2005 08:14
ToolPackinMama  
Barbi Satin wrote:

> http://sauceruney.com/images/vanilla/1197.jpg

http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/2gt.jpg
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #162183 ] So, 06 November 2005 14:31
The Merry Piper  
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 02:14:51 -0500, ToolPackinMama
<laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote:

>Barbi Satin wrote:
>
>> http://sauceruney.com/images/vanilla/1197.jpg
>
>http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/2gt.jpg

Jimmie Kirk is a bad boy. I should give him a spanking.

--
The Merry Piper
[http://tmpiper.livejournal.com]
If you want to dance, you'll have to pay ... me!
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #162191 ] So, 06 November 2005 22:08
Marcovaldo  
"Barbi Satin" <jk2112 [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1vCdnQi4gouQ-_DeRVn-sw [at] comcast.com...
>
> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
> news:Ebqdnc-E8NH9_PjeRVn-vg [at] comcast.com...
>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/tossex.htm
>
> http://sauceruney.com/images/vanilla/1197.jpg

He looks bored. I guess he's done that too many times before.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #162192 ] So, 06 November 2005 22:08
Marcovaldo  
"Barbi Satin" <jk2112 [at] comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1IWdnUIXgZ7ozvDenZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>
> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
> news:Ebqdnc-E8NH9_PjeRVn-vg [at] comcast.com...
>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/tossex.htm
>
>
> I always thought the female TOS uniform should have included shoulder
> length leather gloves and a whip to go with the boots.

Works for me.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #163579 ] Di, 08 November 2005 01:25
sdlitvin  
ToolPackinMama wrote:
> Barbi Satin wrote:
>
>> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
>> news:Ebqdnc-E8NH9_PjeRVn-vg [at] comcast.com...
>>
>>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/tossex.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I always thought the female TOS uniform should have included
>> shoulder length leather gloves and a whip to go with the boots.
>
>
> Like in Mirror, Mirror? :)

The women in "Mirror, Mirror" can use a female version of the Agonizer.
"The Agonette: Strong enough for a man--but made for a woman."


--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #163580 ] Di, 08 November 2005 03:52
whodunit  
Steven L. wrote:
> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>
>> Barbi Satin wrote:
>>
>>> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
>>> news:Ebqdnc-E8NH9_PjeRVn-vg [at] comcast.com...
>>>
>>>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/tossex.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I always thought the female TOS uniform should have included
>>> shoulder length leather gloves and a whip to go with the boots.
>>
>>
>>
>> Like in Mirror, Mirror? :)
>
>
> The women in "Mirror, Mirror" can use a female version of the Agonizer.
> "The Agonette: Strong enough for a man--but made for a woman."
>
>
Keep it away from MirrorStella Mudd!! :-o

OTOH, she's probably a wonderful, loving woman in that universe, so
never mind. ;-)
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #163586 ] Di, 08 November 2005 09:04
ToolPackinMama  
Steven L. wrote:

> The women in "Mirror, Mirror" can use a female version of the Agonizer.
> "The Agonette: Strong enough for a man--but made for a woman."

LOL! :)
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #163587 ] Di, 08 November 2005 09:09
ToolPackinMama  
whodunit wrote:
> Steven L. wrote:
>
>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>
>>> Barbi Satin wrote:
>>>
>>>> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:Ebqdnc-E8NH9_PjeRVn-vg [at] comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/tossex.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I always thought the female TOS uniform should have included
>>>> shoulder length leather gloves and a whip to go with the boots.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Like in Mirror, Mirror? :)
>>
>>
>>
>> The women in "Mirror, Mirror" can use a female version of the
>> Agonizer. "The Agonette: Strong enough for a man--but made for a
>> woman."
>>
>>
> Keep it away from MirrorStella Mudd!! :-o
>
> OTOH, she's probably a wonderful, loving woman in that universe, so
> never mind. ;-)

OMG yes. Mirror Stella is a dollbaby! Of course, Mirror Harry Mudd is
a dollbaby, too.... so that makes it easy for her.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #163598 ] Mi, 09 November 2005 04:59
jsavard  
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 02:12:24 -0500, ToolPackinMama
<laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote, in part:
>Barbi Satin wrote:

>> I always thought the female TOS uniform should have included shoulder
>> length leather gloves and a whip to go with the boots.

>Like in Mirror, Mirror? :)

Boots.

Hmm. Reminds me of a male comic book hero whose (ceramic-durium) tunic
sort of suggested a miniskirt, and who also wore boots...

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
http://www.quadibloc.com/index.html
_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 140,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #165935 ] Fr, 11 November 2005 20:40
al019  
Bones (mahop1 [at] yahoo.com) wrote:
: If I may take up ToolPackinMama's side on this. . .

: Number of female security officers in TOS: Let's see, like all red
: shirts (or in this case skirts) I can't rmember her name. How about the
: one that was killed in "By any Other Name"

I don't think she was security, though she wore red. I'm not sure what
Yeoman Thomson was supposed to be, besides a woman with a realy annoying
voice.

However, remember the woman in the landing party in "A Taste of
Armageddon?" At one point Spock orders her to guard Mae, and left alone
with her she immediately assumes an "I dare you!" type pose! (you have
still of that one online, don't you Laura?)

Brad
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #165936 ] Fr, 11 November 2005 23:37
Robert Bernardo  
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005, Brad Filippone wrote:

> However, remember the woman in the landing party in "A Taste of
> Armageddon?"

Yes, that was Miko Mayuma playing the part of Yeoman Tamura.

> At one point Spock orders her to guard Mae, and left alone
> with her she immediately assumes an "I dare you!" type pose!

To which, Barbara Babcock's character gives a look of
resignation/frustration. :-)

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #165937 ] Sa, 12 November 2005 00:43
Graham Kennedy  
Bones wrote:

> If I may take up ToolPackinMama's side on this. . .
>
> I think she was refering to the status on women on board the
> Enterprise, and by extension the Federation. The episodes of "Friday's
> Child" and "Elaan of Troyus" were not about Federation women. Look up
> he comments on barbarians.
>
> Number of female security officers in TOS: Let's see, like all red
> shirts (or in this case skirts) I can't rmember her name. How about the
> one that was killed in "By any Other Name"
>
> Number of female warriors? What would you call all the women on the
> Enterprise? No one is aboard the ship to be a warrior first, but when
> the situation requires it the women of the Enterprise are just as much
> in the fight as the men are.
>
> Number of female engineers in TOS: All right, not a major character,
> but see the episode "Alternative Factor."
>
> Number of female captains in TOS: Zero -- I'll grant this one. But how
> many captains did we see?
>
> Number of female first officers in TOS: Zero -- I'll grant this one
> too, although it should be noted that we only saw one Male first
> officer -- and he wasn't human. I'd say there are just not enought
> facts for this one.
>
> Number of female helmsmen in TOS: Depends upon what you mean by
> helmsman, but I can count at least three.
>
> What is more to the point here is that TOS was very progressive in its
> male-female relationships for a show produced in the 60's -- light
> years ahead of its contemporaries and ahead of most modern programs to
> boot. Yes, there were some sexist things on Star Trek. What is unique
> is not how many times it did occur, but rather how few.

On my site I have short bios and pics of all but a handful
of those crewmembers on Kirk's ship who were named on screen.
Of 96 characters, 35 are female - 36%. That's far, far above
tokenism. If that percentage held true for the ship as a
whole, 155 crewmembers would be women.


--
Graham Kennedy

Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #165940 ] Sa, 12 November 2005 02:26
sdlitvin  
Robert Bernardo wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005, Brad Filippone wrote:
>
>> However, remember the woman in the landing party in "A Taste of
>> Armageddon?"
>
>
> Yes, that was Miko Mayuma playing the part of Yeoman Tamura.
>
>> At one point Spock orders her to guard Mae, and left alone
>> with her she immediately assumes an "I dare you!" type pose!
>
>
> To which, Barbara Babcock's character gives a look of
> resignation/frustration. :-)

I thought it was a look of contempt: Mea Three considered Yeoman Tamura
a "barbarian," just like Anon 7 considered Kirk a "barbarian."


--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #165941 ] Sa, 12 November 2005 06:47
ToolPackinMama  
Steven L. wrote:

> I thought it was a look of contempt: Mea Three considered Yeoman Tamura
> a "barbarian," just like Anon 7 considered Kirk a "barbarian."

I agree. In the opinion of the inhabitants there, Kirk and his crew
were all virtually subhuman, BECAUSE they didn't agree about the local
social norms.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #165978 ] Mi, 16 November 2005 01:53
Jaxtraw  
<shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1130904138.390258.30690 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bo Raxo wrote: day?
> >
> > >Virtually all
> > > of the Star Trek women had careers, and were self-supporting.
> >
> > Let's see: we had a nurse and a glorified telephone operator. Oh yeah,
not
> > sexist at all. The only female scientist I can recall from TOS was
Janice
> > Lester, and she was hardly a positive portrayal - she was so envious of
men,
> > she wanted to become one.
> >
> > In fact, most of the women you see are there because of a man: The
actress
> > travelling in a troupe with her actor father, the Klingon Kara who is
there
> > because she's Kang's wife, Nancy Crater who is there with her husband at
the
> > archeological dig. Mudd's Women, off to marriages for money.
> >
> > Number of female security officers in TOS: Zero
> > Number of female engineers in TOS: Zero
> > Number of female captains in TOS: Zero
> > Number of female first officers in TOS: One, and the network didn't like
it
> > and had the character axed
> > Number of female helmsmen in TOS: Zero
>
> You're forgetting Dr. Miranda Jones and Dr.Mulhall (both played by
> Diana Muldaur). Dr.Jones was supposed to some kind of legendary
> scientist, even if she was a screwup.
>
> You're correct that we never saw any TOS females who held a
> command-level rank. Lots of female lieutenants, though. Uhuru as a
> senior bridge officer had authority over 95% of the Enterprise crew (I
> also remember a couple times when she manned navigation during
> emergencies.) There was also Federation representative Nancy Hedford,
> who had some authority even over Kirk.
>
> However, I think the absence of any women engineers kind of seals it as
> per TOS sexism. In addition to saying that engineering is a "man's
> job", it also implies that there's no women on the track for a
> command-level position, as a year's experience working in the
> engineering department is one of the requirements to being promoted to
> command-level (unless you're a physician). No question that there was
> some level of sexism aboard the Enterprise and in Starfleet.
>

You may remember that Lieut. Charlene Masters is duty chief of engineering
in The Alternative Factor. I reckon Trek gets some kudos for casting a black
woman for that role. I think the show is best characterised as remarkably
progressive for its time.

Ian

--
www.jaxtrawstudios.com
science fiction with shagging in it
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #165979 ] Mi, 16 November 2005 01:56
Jaxtraw  
"Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
news:Tuk9f.3963$yX2.458 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
> news:-OudnQRQEfDS-fjeRVn-uQ [at] comcast.com...
> >
> > > For those of you who don't know how to click a link, here's the text
> > > version:
> >
> >
> > Star Trek was not a sexist show. It was in fact an anti-sexist show. In
> > TOS, women were respected, and well represented.
>
> Let's examine that:
>
> >We met female queens,
>
> Like the one in Friday's Child, who was sentenced to death? Or like Elaan
> of Troyius, sent off for an arranged marriage?
> Oh yeah, really respected.
>
> > priestesses,
>
> Like the one in Spock's brain - to run their society, they needed a man's
> brain to serve as the controller.
>
> Sounds a tad sexist to me.
>
> >soldiers,
>
> I don't recall any. There was Mara, who was a Klingon, but I didn't see
> anything to suggest she was specifically a soldier.
>
> >warriors,
>
> In TOS? Who?
>
>
> >villains,
>
> Yes, plenty of those. As I pointed out in another post, they were a
> collection of female stereotypes: vain, manipulative, weak willed.
>
>
>
> >and heroines.
>
> Uh, when in TOS did a woman ever save the day? They got all helpless and
> waited for a man to hold them. Even the female starfleet officers were
weak
> : In the Lights of Zetar, our female officer asks Scotty to comfort her,
> 'cause she's scared. In Space Seed, a woman betrays her oath, her duty,
and
> her fellow crew members for love. In Who Mourns for Adonis a woman is
> blinded by love to the danger, and even when they do enlist her to help
save
> the day, her role is to distract the villain by being charming.
>
> Seriously, when did women ever save the day?
>
> >Virtually all
> > of the Star Trek women had careers, and were self-supporting.
>
> Let's see: we had a nurse and a glorified telephone operator. Oh yeah,
not
> sexist at all. The only female scientist I can recall from TOS was Janice
> Lester, and she was hardly a positive portrayal - she was so envious of
men,
> she wanted to become one.
>
> In fact, most of the women you see are there because of a man: The
actress
> travelling in a troupe with her actor father, the Klingon Kara who is
there
> because she's Kang's wife, Nancy Crater who is there with her husband at
the
> archeological dig. Mudd's Women, off to marriages for money.
>
> Number of female security officers in TOS: Zero
> Number of female engineers in TOS: Zero
> Number of female captains in TOS: Zero
> Number of female first officers in TOS: One, and the network didn't like
it
> and had the character axed
> Number of female helmsmen in TOS: Zero
>
> 'Nuff said.
>
>
> Bo Raxo
>
>
>
>

Not 'nuff said at all. You're missing an engineer, for a start.

Additionally, i totally concur with Laura's assessment of the fashion
"issue", which only seems to have cropped up in the drearily over-PC 90s.
When TOS was made, the mini-skirt was all the rage. Girls wanted to wear
them *despite* the views of old-fashioned fuddy duddy conservative men. They
were an expression of confidence in the self, a rebellion against the
taliban tendency that forces women to be eternal victims, who have to shroud
themselves to escape attack by men. Mini-skirts say, "yes, I'm a woman, I'm
proud of my body, not ashamed of it, and you can damned well learn to keep
your hands and whatever else to yourself". They also supply us guys with a
bit of eye candy, so everybody wins. Take a look at Iran or Iraq* to see the
alternative.

Ian


*Or, the way things are going, the USA in a few years time.

--
www.jaxtrawstudios.com
science fiction with shagging in it
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #165999 ] Mi, 16 November 2005 21:21
VernonT  
>> However, I think the absence of any women engineers kind of seals it as
>> per TOS sexism. In addition to saying that engineering is a "man's
>> job", it also implies that there's no women on the track for a
>> command-level position, as a year's experience working in the
>> engineering department is one of the requirements to being promoted to
>> command-level (unless you're a physician). No question that there was
>> some level of sexism aboard the Enterprise and in Starfleet.

Of course, we must remember that TOS was made in the 1960's and had
to reflect signs of those times. That the 23rd century would still
harbor the same social behaviors is not what Star Trek is about.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #166000 ] Mi, 16 November 2005 21:50
sdlitvin  
Jaxtraw wrote:

> <shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1130904138.390258.30690 [at] g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Bo Raxo wrote: day?
>>
>>>>Virtually all
>>>>of the Star Trek women had careers, and were self-supporting.
>>>
>>>Let's see: we had a nurse and a glorified telephone operator. Oh yeah,
>
> not
>
>>>sexist at all. The only female scientist I can recall from TOS was
>
> Janice
>
>>>Lester, and she was hardly a positive portrayal - she was so envious of
>
> men,
>
>>>she wanted to become one.
>>>
>>>In fact, most of the women you see are there because of a man: The
>
> actress
>
>>>travelling in a troupe with her actor father, the Klingon Kara who is
>
> there
>
>>>because she's Kang's wife, Nancy Crater who is there with her husband at
>
> the
>
>>>archeological dig. Mudd's Women, off to marriages for money.
>>>
>>>Number of female security officers in TOS: Zero
>>>Number of female engineers in TOS: Zero
>>>Number of female captains in TOS: Zero
>>>Number of female first officers in TOS: One, and the network didn't like
>
> it
>
>>>and had the character axed
>>>Number of female helmsmen in TOS: Zero
>>
>>You're forgetting Dr. Miranda Jones and Dr.Mulhall (both played by
>>Diana Muldaur). Dr.Jones was supposed to some kind of legendary
>>scientist, even if she was a screwup.
>>
>>You're correct that we never saw any TOS females who held a
>>command-level rank. Lots of female lieutenants, though. Uhuru as a
>>senior bridge officer had authority over 95% of the Enterprise crew (I
>>also remember a couple times when she manned navigation during
>>emergencies.) There was also Federation representative Nancy Hedford,
>>who had some authority even over Kirk.
>>
>>However, I think the absence of any women engineers kind of seals it as
>>per TOS sexism. In addition to saying that engineering is a "man's
>>job", it also implies that there's no women on the track for a
>>command-level position, as a year's experience working in the
>>engineering department is one of the requirements to being promoted to
>>command-level (unless you're a physician). No question that there was
>>some level of sexism aboard the Enterprise and in Starfleet.
>>
>
>
> You may remember that Lieut. Charlene Masters is duty chief of engineering
> in The Alternative Factor. I reckon Trek gets some kudos for casting a black
> woman for that role. I think the show is best characterised as remarkably
> progressive for its time.

Yes, we sometimes tend to forget how much society's attitudes toward
women and minorities have changed over the decades.

IIRC, NASA didn't have any female astronauts or black astronauts till
the Shuttle program. When TOS was on the air, every astronaut was a
white male. And no Navy ship had a mixed-gender crew. (That's why, in
"Tomorrow as Yesterday," Captain Christopher was shown to be surprised
at the sight of female Enterprise crew members.)


--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #166001 ] Mi, 16 November 2005 22:00
sdlitvin  
Jaxtraw wrote:

> "Bo Raxo" <invasions_r_us [at] thepentagon.removethis.com> wrote in message
> news:Tuk9f.3963$yX2.458 [at] newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>>"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
>>news:-OudnQRQEfDS-fjeRVn-uQ [at] comcast.com...
>>
>>>>For those of you who don't know how to click a link, here's the text
>>>>version:
>>>
>>>
>>>Star Trek was not a sexist show. It was in fact an anti-sexist show. In
>>>TOS, women were respected, and well represented.
>>
>>Let's examine that:
>>
>>
>>>We met female queens,
>>
>>Like the one in Friday's Child, who was sentenced to death? Or like Elaan
>>of Troyius, sent off for an arranged marriage?
>>Oh yeah, really respected.
>>
>>
>>>priestesses,
>>
>>Like the one in Spock's brain - to run their society, they needed a man's
>>brain to serve as the controller.
>>
>>Sounds a tad sexist to me.
>>
>>
>>>soldiers,
>>
>>I don't recall any. There was Mara, who was a Klingon, but I didn't see
>>anything to suggest she was specifically a soldier.
>>
>>
>>>warriors,
>>
>>In TOS? Who?
>>
>>
>>
>>>villains,
>>
>>Yes, plenty of those. As I pointed out in another post, they were a
>>collection of female stereotypes: vain, manipulative, weak willed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>and heroines.
>>
>>Uh, when in TOS did a woman ever save the day? They got all helpless and
>>waited for a man to hold them. Even the female starfleet officers were
>
> weak
>
>>: In the Lights of Zetar, our female officer asks Scotty to comfort her,
>>'cause she's scared. In Space Seed, a woman betrays her oath, her duty,
>
> and
>
>>her fellow crew members for love. In Who Mourns for Adonis a woman is
>>blinded by love to the danger, and even when they do enlist her to help
>
> save
>
>>the day, her role is to distract the villain by being charming.
>>
>>Seriously, when did women ever save the day?
>>
>>
>>>Virtually all
>>>of the Star Trek women had careers, and were self-supporting.
>>
>>Let's see: we had a nurse and a glorified telephone operator. Oh yeah,
>
> not
>
>>sexist at all. The only female scientist I can recall from TOS was Janice
>>Lester, and she was hardly a positive portrayal - she was so envious of
>
> men,
>
>>she wanted to become one.
>>
>>In fact, most of the women you see are there because of a man: The
>
> actress
>
>>travelling in a troupe with her actor father, the Klingon Kara who is
>
> there
>
>>because she's Kang's wife, Nancy Crater who is there with her husband at
>
> the
>
>>archeological dig. Mudd's Women, off to marriages for money.
>>
>>Number of female security officers in TOS: Zero
>>Number of female engineers in TOS: Zero
>>Number of female captains in TOS: Zero
>>Number of female first officers in TOS: One, and the network didn't like
>
> it
>
>>and had the character axed
>>Number of female helmsmen in TOS: Zero
>>
>>'Nuff said.
>>
>>
>>Bo Raxo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Not 'nuff said at all. You're missing an engineer, for a start.
>
> Additionally, i totally concur with Laura's assessment of the fashion
> "issue", which only seems to have cropped up in the drearily over-PC 90s.
> When TOS was made, the mini-skirt was all the rage. Girls wanted to wear
> them *despite* the views of old-fashioned fuddy duddy conservative men.

When the TOS pilot "The Cage" was made in 1965, the women's liberation
movement was just getting started, and as you say, mini-skirts were one
manifestation of that. Later on, women experimented with other fashions
like going braless. (Bonnie Franklin insisted on going braless on the
TV sitcom "One Day At A Time.)

What triggered the entire women's liberation movement was, of course,
the contraceptive pill, which was first sold commercially in 1960.
Prior to that, women couldn't plan long-term careers because the chance
of pregnancy was just too high.


--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #166018 ] Do, 17 November 2005 04:54
ANIM8Rfsk  
in article xYMef.2518$c27.2250 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L.
at sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 11/16/05 1:50 PM:

> IIRC, NASA didn't have any female astronauts or black astronauts till
> the Shuttle program.

Larry Niven wrote an article on that. IIRC, until the shuttle orbiter with
it's advanced sanitary facilities, the only way they had for a woman to
urinate in space was to insert a catheter. Gah.


--
The "Upward Foundation" in Phoenix AZ, 623-848-9725, are liars and scam
artists. They make junk phone calls often several times a day to the same
number and refuse to remove you from their calling list (they will give you
a non working number to call to be removed, and the contact address on their
website is phony). This has been going on for a decade. Do not deal with
them.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #166025 ] Do, 17 November 2005 09:40
Robert Bernardo  
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Steven L. wrote:

> IIRC, NASA didn't have any female astronauts or black astronauts till the
> Shuttle program.

The Soviets did have the first woman in space in 1962, Valentina
Tereshkova, on Vostok 6.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #166099 ] Sa, 19 November 2005 06:22
sdlitvin  
ANIM8Rfsk wrote:

> in article xYMef.2518$c27.2250 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L.
> at sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 11/16/05 1:50 PM:
>
>
>>IIRC, NASA didn't have any female astronauts or black astronauts till
>>the Shuttle program.
>
>
> Larry Niven wrote an article on that. IIRC, until the shuttle orbiter with
> it's advanced sanitary facilities, the only way they had for a woman to
> urinate in space was to insert a catheter. Gah.

How did Valentina Tereshkova, the first female Soviet cosmonaut, manage
then?



--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #166100 ] Sa, 19 November 2005 06:23
sdlitvin  
Robert Bernardo wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Steven L. wrote:
>
>> IIRC, NASA didn't have any female astronauts or black astronauts till
>> the Shuttle program.
>
>
> The Soviets did have the first woman in space in 1962, Valentina
> Tereshkova, on Vostok 6.

I know.
Did the Vostok have facilities for her to urinate?


--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #166108 ] Sa, 19 November 2005 17:15
ANIM8Rfsk  
in article IEyff.1073$rM2.156 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at
sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 11/18/05 10:22 PM:

> ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
>
>> in article xYMef.2518$c27.2250 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L.
>> at sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 11/16/05 1:50 PM:
>>
>>
>>> IIRC, NASA didn't have any female astronauts or black astronauts till
>>> the Shuttle program.
>>
>>
>> Larry Niven wrote an article on that. IIRC, until the shuttle orbiter with
>> it's advanced sanitary facilities, the only way they had for a woman to
>> urinate in space was to insert a catheter. Gah.
>
> How did Valentina Tereshkova, the first female Soviet cosmonaut, manage
> then?
>
>
The assumption seems to be, with a catheter. At the time we didn't
'officially' know. I imagine we do now (they supposedly gave us all kinds
of data when we started doing joint missions) but don't talk about it.


--
The "Upward Foundation" in Phoenix AZ, 623-848-9725, are liars and scam
artists. They make junk phone calls often several times a day to the same
number and refuse to remove you from their calling list (they will give you
a non working number to call to be removed, and the contact address on their
website is phony). This has been going on for a decade. Do not deal with
them.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #166109 ] Sa, 19 November 2005 17:26
ANIM8Rfsk  
in article tFyff.1074$rM2.521 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at
sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 11/18/05 10:23 PM:

> Robert Bernardo wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Steven L. wrote:
>>
>>> IIRC, NASA didn't have any female astronauts or black astronauts till
>>> the Shuttle program.
>>
>>
>> The Soviets did have the first woman in space in 1962, Valentina
>> Tereshkova, on Vostok 6.
>
> I know.
> Did the Vostok have facilities for her to urinate?
>
Apparently the Vostok 'facilities' were diapers under the spacesuits. I
guess that would work equally well for men or women.

BUT

My google brought up this disturbing little article:

http://www.independent.com/cover/cover921.html

"Ever wonder what astronauts do? Coutinho tells the story of Russian
cosmonaut Valentina Tereshkova, whose journey "ended abruptly in 1973 when
she had to be brought back to Earth after only three days because she began
to menstruate excessively and there was no apparent way to control or stop
the flow.""

At this point I'm going to declare that NASA is right in not sharing this
information with us. Eeesh.

--
The "Upward Foundation" in Phoenix AZ, 623-848-9725, are liars and scam
artists. They make junk phone calls often several times a day to the same
number and refuse to remove you from their calling list (they will give you
a non working number to call to be removed, and the contact address on their
website is phony). This has been going on for a decade. Do not deal with
them.
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #166114 ] Sa, 19 November 2005 21:30
Marcovaldo  
"ANIM8Rfsk" <ANIM8Rfsk [at] cox.net> wrote in message
news:BFA49D9A.5DB58%ANIM8Rfsk [at] cox.net...
> in article IEyff.1073$rM2.156 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L.
> at
> sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 11/18/05 10:22 PM:
>
>> ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
>>
>>> in article xYMef.2518$c27.2250 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven
>>> L.
>>> at sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 11/16/05 1:50 PM:
>>>
>>>
>>>> IIRC, NASA didn't have any female astronauts or black astronauts till
>>>> the Shuttle program.
>>>
>>>
>>> Larry Niven wrote an article on that. IIRC, until the shuttle orbiter
>>> with
>>> it's advanced sanitary facilities, the only way they had for a woman to
>>> urinate in space was to insert a catheter. Gah.
>>
>> How did Valentina Tereshkova, the first female Soviet cosmonaut, manage
>> then?
>>
>>
> The assumption seems to be, with a catheter. At the time we didn't
> 'officially' know. I imagine we do now (they supposedly gave us all kinds
> of data when we started doing joint missions) but don't talk about it.

I wouldn't want to talk about that either. I mean, yeeewwww ....
Re: Mini-skirts, women, and sexual relationships, in TOS [message #166135 ] So, 20 November 2005 06:03
sdlitvin  
ANIM8Rfsk wrote:

> in article tFyff.1074$rM2.521 [at] newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at
> sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 11/18/05 10:23 PM:
>
>
>>Robert Bernardo wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Steven L. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>IIRC, NASA didn't have any female astronauts or black astronauts till
>>>>the Shuttle program.
>>>
>>>
>>>The Soviets did have the first woman in space in 1962, Valentina
>>>Tereshkova, on Vostok 6.
>>
>>I know.
>>Did the Vostok have facilities for her to urinate?
>>
>
> Apparently the Vostok 'facilities' were diapers under the spacesuits. I
> guess that would work equally well for men or women.
>
> BUT
>
> My google brought up this disturbing little article:
>
> http://www.independent.com/cover/cover921.html
>
> "Ever wonder what astronauts do? Coutinho tells the story of Russian
> cosmonaut Valentina Tereshkova, whose journey "ended abruptly in 1973 when
> she had to be brought back to Earth after only three days because she began
> to menstruate excessively and there was no apparent way to control or stop
> the flow.""
>
> At this point I'm going to declare that NASA is right in not sharing this
> information with us. Eeesh.

One other thing that NASA doesn't publicize widely, is that the medical
kit on the International Space Station (ISS) includes a pregnancy test
kit. Just in case.


--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net

Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
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