| Re: Long home metaphor (was Re: COTW: Silmarillion Chapter XVI "Of Maeglin") [message #304507 ] |
Sa, 22 Juli 2006 21:00 |
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On 20 Jul 2006 21:05:24 -0700, Steve Morrison wrote:
> Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>
>> The point of the reviewer was that by 'long home' Celeborn means death
>> in a blunter sense. The grave is the 'long home' being talked about
>> here.
>>
>> In fact, the Valhalla reference in 'Reader's Companion' is probably to
>> the "fall in battle" bit, not the "long home" bit. But the "long home"
>> bit does seem to turn it into a straightforward 'death' reference. In
>> other words, I would understand "or else go to the home of those that
>> fall in battle" to be a Valhalla-type reference, but the addition of
>> 'long' makes it a simple "or else die in battle" statement.
>>
>> What do others think is going on here?
>>
>> The same phrase is also used by Theoden:
>>
>> "...when Eomer brought the tidings that you had gone at last to your
>> long home, I did not mourn." (The King of the Golden Hall)
>>
>> I've always understood the phrase "long home" to be a reference to
>> death. A rather logical, but also poetic phrase, that doesn't really
>> originate anywhere in particular, but just enters the consciousness of a
>> language, or is rediscovered from age to age.
>
> The phrase "long home" is from the King James Bible
> (Ecclesiastes 12:5):
>
The phrase "long home" was used in the Foxe's Book of Martyrs (1563) in
a quotation of the last dying words of Rowland Taylor (1510 - 1555) to
his wife and family:
"Count me not dead, for I shall certainly live, and never die. I go
before, and you shall follow after, to our long home."
full text: http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/fox116.htm
So the phrase and its attendant concept certainly predates the KJB
(1611) translation, although by how much is hard to tell without further
research.
The Taylor quotation doesn't seem to be using 'long home' to indicate a
grave, but something more akin to an afterlife, be it Valhalla, Mandos
or Niggle's Parish.
Wesleys Notes on the New Testament (1755) give:
Long home - From this place of his pilgrimage into the grave, from
whence he must never return into this world, and into the state of the
future life, which is unchangeable and everlasting.
Again, this seems to be indiciative of the long home of the soul, rather
than the resting place of the body.
--
Burúmë
Squirrel gives 1 to Wise Owl for her vanity.
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| Re: Long home metaphor (was Re: COTW: Silmarillion Chapter XVI "Of Maeglin") [message #304509 ] |
Sa, 22 Juli 2006 22:21 |
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In article <19hfxca1abp50.5ek7gumxb8ek$.dlg [at] 40tude.net>, Burúmë wrote:
> On 20 Jul 2006 21:05:24 -0700, Steve Morrison wrote:
....
>> The phrase "long home" is from the King James Bible
>> (Ecclesiastes 12:5):
>>
>
> The phrase "long home" was used in the Foxe's Book of Martyrs (1563) in
> a quotation of the last dying words of Rowland Taylor (1510 - 1555) to
> his wife and family:
>
> "Count me not dead, for I shall certainly live, and never die. I go
> before, and you shall follow after, to our long home."
>
> full text: http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/fox116.htm
>
> So the phrase and its attendant concept certainly predates the KJB
> (1611) translation, although by how much is hard to tell without further
> research.
>
> The Taylor quotation doesn't seem to be using 'long home' to indicate a
> grave, but something more akin to an afterlife, be it Valhalla, Mandos
> or Niggle's Parish.
>
> Wesleys Notes on the New Testament (1755) give:
>
> Long home - From this place of his pilgrimage into the grave, from
> whence he must never return into this world, and into the state of the
> future life, which is unchangeable and everlasting.
>
> Again, this seems to be indiciative of the long home of the soul, rather
> than the resting place of the body.
OED has a quote from 1303
"To thy long home shalt thou wende" R. Brunne "Handl.Synne"
Emma
--
\----
|\* | Emma Pease Net Spinster
|_\/ Die Luft der Freiheit weht
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| Re: Long home metaphor (was Re: COTW: Silmarillion Chapter XVI "Of Maeglin") [message #304529 ] |
So, 23 Juli 2006 21:36 |
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Emma Pease <emma [at] kanpai.stanford.edu> wrote:
<snip>
> OED has a quote from 1303
>
> "To thy long home shalt thou wende" R. Brunne "Handl.Synne"
Thanks to all for the quotes (any others would be interesting as well).
Just a quick question about this quote from the OED - does anyone know
what "Handl. Synne" is? A publication of some sort, but what sort and
what is it about? (ie. is it about death alone, or the afterlife as
well?)
And I did hear that "long home" is from Middle English. That assertation
might be based on, or is confirmed by, this OED quote.
Christopher
--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
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| Re: Long home metaphor (was Re: COTW: Silmarillion Chapter XVI "Of Maeglin") [message #304535 ] |
Mo, 24 Juli 2006 04:30 |
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Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> Emma Pease <emma [at] kanpai.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > OED has a quote from 1303
> >
> > "To thy long home shalt thou wende" R. Brunne "Handl.Synne"
>
> Thanks to all for the quotes (any others would be interesting as well).
> Just a quick question about this quote from the OED - does anyone know
> what "Handl. Synne" is? A publication of some sort, but what sort and
> what is it about? (ie. is it about death alone, or the afterlife as
> well?)
handl. synne = handlyng synne = concerning sin. i think tolkien wrote
an article on it.
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