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Fantasy » alt.fan.harry-potter » "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered"
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #300284 ] So, 16 Juli 2006 04:26
Matt Clara  
"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
news:vkb9b2d592krcuu35q3g09rsj63tno24b4 [at] 4ax.com...
> On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:57:22 -0400, "Matt Clara" <hey.wood.y [at] buzz.off>
> wrote:
>
>>"Maik Koenig" <mkngs [at] usenet.cnntp.org> wrote in message
>>news:e89udi.2qk.1 [at] news.daufahnder.gmxhome.de...
>>> drusilla schrieb:
>>> [BS]
>>>
>>> There you see why europeans often laugh about people in the US. So crazy
>>> are only them.
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetz,
>>> MK
>>
>>
>>At least we didn't start a world war and try to rid the world of all
>>Jews...
>
> Didn't try to save them, mind you. Could care less really. Only
> entered the war to avenge yourselves of Japan's attack. Had Japan not
> attacked, the US would have stayed out of things.
>
> Now, when the US would be targeted in turn, would they have pulled a
> France because they were now Allyless? Or defended themselves from
> invasion (and still not to save the Jews)

Hardly that simple; after all, that's only the reason given by the US gov.,
and no war has ever been fought for the reasons stated by those gov's
involved in the fighting.

My point is, however, that if some guy from Germany is going to give folks
from the US grief for a cliched and shallow view of one of the largest
nations in the world, he should perhaps look at his own recent history,
first.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #300285 ] So, 16 Juli 2006 04:32
Matt Clara  
"Maik Koenig" <mkngs [at] usenet.cnntp.org> wrote in message
news:e93mbo.26g.1 [at] news.daufahnder.gmxhome.de...
> Matt Clara schrieb:
>
>> At least we didn't start a world war and try to rid the world of all
>> Jews...
>
> ROFL. And that should bother me why? WW2 ended over 60 years ago. The
> United States invaded Iraq all on their own not 5 years ago to find
> weapons that were not there. Or, perhaps, I should mention the Native
> Americans? How about your black people? Should I really go on?
>
> The US have done as many or more dumb things than any other country,
> they are even now still doing dumb things to rule the world that just
> does not want to be ruled. What a pity.
>
> At least most of European people know what their Country is doing, the
> Americans probably still teach their children that the world was build
> in seven days.
>
> The funny thing is, many people think that the USA will one day fall
> down very hard, they just dont mention it but wait and see. Bush does
> all the work for them, why should they bother.
>
> Next you will try to tell me that a nipple or the word "fuck" in TV is
> cause for an emergency meeting off the parents on all schools.
>
> The States have one big disadvantage: They think they are the king
> when in reality they are the jester.
>
> OK, enough OT, lets go on with HP so that I dont need to laugh so hard.
>


Ooh! Looks like I struck a nerve! Hey, you gave me an entirely cliched and
shallow view of my country, and I threw one right back at ya. Didn't like
it, did you? Think about it next time.

And I'd kick Bush right out of this country, if I were given the choice, so
you're barking up the wrong tree there.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #300299 ] So, 16 Juli 2006 09:41
Toon  
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:02:40 GMT, "Kenny"
<omgtheykilledkenny [at] telus.net> wrote:

>
>"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
>news:u8ahb29s7746a9dllkp17ag63sl7mcbugp [at] 4ax.com...
>> An old quote is "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to
>> the death you're right to say it."
>
>I can go along with that.
>
>> Even Pres Bush basically feels the same way, provided you aren't
>> making things up. You don't need to agree with him. and he welcomes
>> the opposition. he also doesn't like it when Democrats make things up
>> to support their opinion.
>
>Of course the Republicans never have done that....
>

CoughWMDInIraqCough
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #300300 ] So, 16 Juli 2006 09:43
Toon  
>And I'd kick Bush right out of this country, if I were given the choice, so
>you're barking up the wrong tree there.

Well, we were given the choice, and we didn't take it. Because people
refuse to change leadership in a war. No matter how wrongful and how
much we want out. Let alone the new guy would get us out ASAP!
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #300316 ] So, 16 Juli 2006 15:23
Maik Koenig  
Matt Clara schrieb:

> My point is, however, that if some guy from Germany is going to give folks
> from the US grief for a cliched and shallow view of one of the largest
> nations in the world, he should perhaps look at his own recent history,
> first.

Recent? ROFL The recent history of Germany would be the reunification
of East- and West Germany and even that is over 15 years ago.

When was the last time Germany started a war and how many wars have
had the USA started since?

Greetz,
MK
--
Die eMail funzt, kann aber manchmal spinnen. Dann das Ganze an gmx.de
'kill me, that's just annoying, look at my friend oddly, I'll wear
your guts for garters.'
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #300318 ] So, 16 Juli 2006 17:25
karnak17  
Aselloth wrote:
> Christian Winter wrote:
> At home
> > I've got some books published roughly 35 years ago by the catholic
> > church on exorcism and the danger of being possessed by daemons that
> > they nowadays won't speak about, lest sell them openly.
>
> Oh, but you might be surprised how the system still works! It might
> seem unbelievable and I didn't believe it myself for a long time since
> I found it out about two years ago, but official Vatican's exorcists
> still exist. At the very moment the Church is sending quite a few of
> them to the Eastern Europe, which is being re-conquered by the most
> fundamentalistic catholic branches.
> And though I don't live in some strange middle age place, I have heard
> of people dragging their drug-addict relatives or people with mental
> health problems to exorcists.
> Crazy?

Not as long as it actually works, which it often does. In fact,
traditional exorcism rituals, Catholic and otherwise, actually have a
far better success rate than the western Mental Health Establishment in
many cases. You might recall that in THE EXORCIST, it was Reagan's
DOCTORS who recommended the excorcism as something that might work,
once they were out of other options.
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #300350 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 09:04
Aselloth  
Toon wrote:
> Even Pres Bush basically feels the same way, provided you aren't
> making things up. You don't need to agree with him. and he welcomes
> the opposition. he also doesn't like it when Democrats make things up
> to support their opinion.

Does he welcome the opposition? Well, who am I to judge the domestic
affairs of a foreign country, but I do have a feeling that in democracy
he cannot exactly start shooting at the Democrats, can he? And at least
from abroad it seems he has used every other legal and illegal weapon
to shut them down :)
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #300354 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 09:42
Toon  
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:23:15 +0200, Maik Koenig
<mkngs [at] usenet.cnntp.org> wrote:

>Matt Clara schrieb:
>
>> My point is, however, that if some guy from Germany is going to give folks
>> from the US grief for a cliched and shallow view of one of the largest
>> nations in the world, he should perhaps look at his own recent history,
>> first.
>
>Recent? ROFL The recent history of Germany would be the reunification
>of East- and West Germany and even that is over 15 years ago.
>
>When was the last time Germany started a war and how many wars have
>had the USA started since?
>
>Greetz,
>MK

But Germany lost both World Wars. And caused one. The US never
caused a World War before.
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #300372 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 13:23
aaron  
Toon wrote:
> An old quote is "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to
> the death you're right to say it."
>
> Even Pres Bush basically feels the same way, provided you aren't
> making things up.

Utter horseshit. "Making things up?" He knows all about that. Or not.
Cheney knows, at least.

And that saying does NOT apply only when you "aren't making things up."
That saying applies to EVERYTHING you say.

> You don't need to agree with him.

Valerie Plame? Hello? What planet are you from, Toon?

> and he welcomes the opposition.

Bull. Effing. Shit.

> he also doesn't like it when Democrats make things up to support their opinion.

Then it's good that we only deal with the facts. Less to make the shrub
upset.

I'm disappointed in you, Toon. Despite your horrid grammar and numerous
typos, I was certain you were a liberal. But now, you add one more
strike against you when you had no need to share this information.

Why do persons on this ng feel the need to volunteer negative
information about themselves? Nuts, I say!

=)

-Aaron
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #300373 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 13:23
aaron  
Toon wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:02:40 GMT, "Kenny"
> <omgtheykilledkenny [at] telus.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
> >news:u8ahb29s7746a9dllkp17ag63sl7mcbugp [at] 4ax.com...
> >> An old quote is "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to
> >> the death you're right to say it."
> >
> >I can go along with that.
> >
> >> Even Pres Bush basically feels the same way, provided you aren't
> >> making things up. You don't need to agree with him. and he welcomes
> >> the opposition. he also doesn't like it when Democrats make things up
> >> to support their opinion.
> >
> >Of course the Republicans never have done that....
> >
>
> CoughWMDInIraqCough

Just which side are you on, Toon? This is in direct opposition to your
previous post, included above.

-Aaron
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #302622 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 02:11
Matt Clara  
"Maik Koenig" <mkngs [at] usenet.cnntp.org> wrote in message
news:e9dlnf.3qc.1 [at] news.daufahnder.gmxhome.de...
> Matt Clara schrieb:
>
>> My point is, however, that if some guy from Germany is going to give
>> folks
>> from the US grief for a cliched and shallow view of one of the largest
>> nations in the world, he should perhaps look at his own recent history,
>> first.
>
> Recent? ROFL The recent history of Germany would be the reunification
> of East- and West Germany and even that is over 15 years ago.
>
> When was the last time Germany started a war and how many wars have
> had the USA started since?
>
> Greetz,
> MK


Please read my other reply to your other post (but if we must continue down
this vein, I'd say the genocide card trumps all, and my grandfather fought
in that war, so that certainly counts as recent history to me, and just
about anyone who might call themselves historians).

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #302633 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 04:00
Mauro  
"Toon" <toon [at] toon.com> wrote in message
news:qofmb2tqhq9r3c5v7n0mmc8u67pplkbmbh [at] 4ax.com...

> But Germany lost both World Wars. And caused one. The US never
> caused a World War before.

Not directly, no. But the US was complicit in the horrible and humiliating
(to the Germans) Treaty of Versailles at the end of WWI, which treated
Germany so badly it was almost inevitable that they would start another war
to gain back some of their territory sooner or later. Plus, US
"conservative" isolationists who put up trade barriers like the Smoot Hawley
Tariff Act dumped the world economy into The Great Depression, which created
the economic conditions that allowed Hitler to rise to power (Hitler's rise
was based on campaigning on how terrible the economy was, more or less). So
you could argue that the US *was* responsible, at least in part, for WWII.
The US certainly didn't fire the first shots, but it sure set the stage and
handed Germany the gun.
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #302667 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 09:39
Toon  
On 17 Jul 2006 00:04:05 -0700, "Aselloth" <aselloth [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>Toon wrote:
>> Even Pres Bush basically feels the same way, provided you aren't
>> making things up. You don't need to agree with him. and he welcomes
>> the opposition. he also doesn't like it when Democrats make things up
>> to support their opinion.
>
>Does he welcome the opposition?

He does through Freedom of speech. Once he said he welcomes FOS, and
that's why he's attacking IRa and such, to defend our Freedoms to do
so. another time he complained that the Dems can say he's wrong with
Iraq, but not to make ups tuff (about no WMD,etc.) I combined the two
into one. Dubya welcomes your opinions, as long as their actual.
You're free to disagree,a and he'll defend your right to oppose him
verbally. Provided you can back your statements up. You can't go
around saying he lures children into his gingerbread house, because he
doesn't.

>but I do have a feeling that in democracy
>he cannot exactly start shooting at the Democrats, can he?

No, that'd be Vice Pres. Dick Cheney. And he'll shoot anybody.
Democrats, Republicans, or even his friends.

> And at least
>from abroad it seems he has used every other legal and illegal weapon
>to shut them down :)

Well, he'll argue against the illegal ones. But remember, just
saying stuff doesn't always change people's opinions.
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #302668 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 09:43
Toon  
On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 02:00:25 GMT, "Mauro" <Spamblock [at] spamblock.com>
wrote:

>The US certainly didn't fire the first shots, but it sure set the stage and
>handed Germany the gun.

Which they promptly shot themselves with.
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #302745 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 09:52
Aselloth  
Toon wrote:
> He does through Freedom of speech. Once he said he welcomes FOS, and
> that's why he's attacking IRa and such, to defend our Freedoms to do
> so.

Bullshit. It's like saying we should eliminate all the carnivores
because we like animals. The true reason being of course we want to EAT
the carnivores, when we kill them.
Any analogies between carnivores and oil are of course purely
coincidental.

another time he complained that the Dems can say he's wrong with
> Iraq, but not to make ups tuff (about no WMD,etc.) I combined the two
> into one. Dubya welcomes your opinions, as long as their actual.
> You're free to disagree,a and he'll defend your right to oppose him
> verbally. Provided you can back your statements up. You can't go
> around saying he lures children into his gingerbread house, because he
> doesn't.

It sure does look very different from abroad, you know.
Refresh my memory, will you, about when they found WMD?

> No, that'd be Vice Pres. Dick Cheney. And he'll shoot anybody.
> Democrats, Republicans, or even his friends.

I see, he shoots everybody, so that's a shooting suitable for
democracy?
:)
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #302779 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 00:06
Thomas Madura  
Aselloth wrote:

> Toon wrote:
>
>>He does through Freedom of speech. Once he said he welcomes FOS, and
>>that's why he's attacking IRa and such, to defend our Freedoms to do
>>so.
>
>
> Bullshit. It's like saying we should eliminate all the carnivores
> because we like animals. The true reason being of course we want to EAT
> the carnivores, when we kill them.
> Any analogies between carnivores and oil are of course purely
> coincidental.
>
> another time he complained that the Dems can say he's wrong with
>
>>Iraq, but not to make ups tuff (about no WMD,etc.) I combined the two
>>into one. Dubya welcomes your opinions, as long as their actual.
>>You're free to disagree,a and he'll defend your right to oppose him
>>verbally. Provided you can back your statements up. You can't go
>>around saying he lures children into his gingerbread house, because he
>>doesn't.
>
>
> It sure does look very different from abroad, you know.
> Refresh my memory, will you, about when they found WMD?
>

Gee - Refresh MY memory - by allowing Germany some expansion - how
Chamberlain managed to avoid WWII.





>
>>No, that'd be Vice Pres. Dick Cheney. And he'll shoot anybody.
>>Democrats, Republicans, or even his friends.
>
>
> I see, he shoots everybody, so that's a shooting suitable for
> democracy?

THe shooting was determined to be accidental - so no charges were filed
- the parties involved solved the situation between themsleves on a
personal level. THere is no indication that Mr. Cheney would shoot
anyone based on their poltical views or friendship.



> :)
>
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #302820 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 08:25
Aselloth  
Thom Madura wrote:

> Gee - Refresh MY memory - by allowing Germany some expansion - how
> Chamberlain managed to avoid WWII.

The comparison is completely useless. Do you think that if GB would
just-in-case attack Germany before it started expanding, there wouldn't
be another war?
Come on, there was a war - WWI - just a few years before that, Germany
was defeated and on its knees and by that war just enough hatred was
produced to allow Hitler's rise to power.
And you may not be aware of it, but with attack on Iraq enough hatred
was produced to induce several wars.

I am still curious: what WMD DID they find in Iraq?

You needn't even answer, because we know they didn't find any. And
we're really off topic, we might leave it at this or continue on some
other ng. Which is not really of any good, cause we all know Europeans
in general have a somewhat different perspective of the world politics
as Americans do.

> >>No, that'd be Vice Pres. Dick Cheney. And he'll shoot anybody.
> >>Democrats, Republicans, or even his friends.
> >
> > I see, he shoots everybody, so that's a shooting suitable for
> > democracy?
>
> THe shooting was determined to be accidental - so no charges were filed
> - the parties involved solved the situation between themsleves on a
> personal level. THere is no indication that Mr. Cheney would shoot
> anyone based on their poltical views or friendship.

Hey, I didnt bring this subject up, it was just a joke. I don't really
care if he shoots everybody around him (maybe it would even prove
beneficial, in the long term).
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #302839 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 12:57
Joolz  
septithol wrote:
> Well, first of all, you cannot compare a book in a school library to
> poor pavement at the school, or a lunch program with poor nutrition. A
> child has little choice but to walk on the pavement that exists, or eat
> the hot lunch that is served that day in school. Unless a book is
> assigned in class, a child does have a *choice* whether or not to check
> it out of the school library and read it. In which case, a parent who
> does not want their child to read a particular book merely need
> instruct them *not* to do so. If the child disobeys them, perhaps they
> should look into disciplining the child better, rather than telling
> other parents how to raise their children.
>
> Secondly, banning books is clearly contrary to the 1st amendment of the
> constitution. The only way in which she would have a legal leg to stand
> on, is if she were to claim that since *Wicca* is a religion practiced
> by some people, including books which promote it in the library of a
> public school is a violation of seperation of church and state. In
> which case, the Potter books should be removed. Also, any books which
> could possibly be construed as promoting *other* religions, such as
> Christianity, should ALSO be removed. This will probably include most
> fiction books in existence. Ei, Tom Sawyer features an obviously
> Christian funeral scene. Out it goes!
>
> Thirdly, the issue would not exist at all, were it not for the fact
> that the government is vastly overstepping the authority given to it by
> the constitution by creating public schools in the first place, and
> pretty much financially forcing parents to send their children there by
> making them pay for the public schools regardless of whether they use
> them or not. Very few parents can afford to pay twice for their
> children's education, once for the property taxes for the public
> schools, and another time for a private school they might prefer. Were
> all schools private, and non-compulsory as they should be (and as they
> were early in this country's history when the literacy rate was much
> HIGHER than it is now), the issue would not exist. The woman could send
> her children to the *I hate Potter* school, or no school at all, and
> let other parents send their children to different schools.
>
> Fourthly, she doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. Since by her own
> admission, she has not read the Harry Potter books, she cannot make ANY
> statement about them, good or bad, without perjuring herself. Should
> she do so, she should immediately be put on trial for perjury. The fact
> that any given statement she makes *might* be true in an objective
> sense is irrelevent. The fact is that since she knows nothing about the
> books, any definitive statement she makes is therefore necessarily
> FALSE from her point of view, and she is therefore committing
> deliberate perjury.


I haven't read through this entire thread yet, so maybe someone will
have already brought this up, but...

You forgot the Fifth thing...

She's from Georgia.

Now hold on everyone... hehe I'm not saying that is a bad thing on
the whole, however...

I live in Southern Alabama now. I was born, raised and grew up most of
my life in and around Chicago. Then things happen, you find a
wonderful Bama Man and find yourself a stranger in a strange land...

Georgia is also the state that within the last couple of years had the
flap about putting 'warning labels' in the science textbooks stating
(in not so many words) Evolution was an unproven theory and not to put
too much stock into this 'alternate' theory of how we all got here.
This was, of course, after they tried to ban the teaching of Evolution
altogether and failed. The warning labels have since been overturned
as well and have been removed from the textbooks. Still however,
*these* are the sorts of people you find down in the Southern U.S.

The fact that this mother has said that she hasn't read any of the
Potter books because they are too long is another indication of how
things work down here. My Husband works with a guy who, when my
husband asked him if he had read some book or another, replied,
"Noooo... I don't *read*". Emphasis on the word 'read' and imagine
that instead of 'read' it actually says 'eat feces' because that is the
tone this guy used when he said the word. It was as if my husband had
asked him about the most vile behavior you can think of.

Now, there are no doubt nutcases like this woman in every one of our 50
states... but I think you'll find that the vast majority of
close-minded, ignorant morons live somewhere south of the Mason/Dixon
line.

Not saying that *every* Southerner fits that description, just saying
that when you look for examples like this, you'll find them more often
than not, down here.

Julie
Re: "Anti-Potter mother's appeal considered" [message #302844 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 13:40
Toon  
On 19 Jul 2006 00:52:52 -0700, "Aselloth" <aselloth [at] gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Toon wrote:
>> He does through Freedom of speech. Once he said he welcomes FOS, and
>> that's why he's attacking IRa and such, to defend our Freedoms to do
>> so.
>
>Bullshit. It's like saying we should eliminate all the carnivores
>because we like animals. The true reason being of course we want to EAT
>the carnivores, when we kill them.
>Any analogies between carnivores and oil are of course purely
>coincidental.

I didn't say he was telling the truth on why he invaded.

>another time he complained that the Dems can say he's wrong with
>> Iraq, but not to make ups tuff (about no WMD,etc.) I combined the two
>> into one. Dubya welcomes your opinions, as long as their actual.
>> You're free to disagree,a and he'll defend your right to oppose him
>> verbally. Provided you can back your statements up. You can't go
>> around saying he lures children into his gingerbread house, because he
>> doesn't.
>
>It sure does look very different from abroad, you know.
>Refresh my memory, will you, about when they found WMD?

Quarter past never.

>> No, that'd be Vice Pres. Dick Cheney. And he'll shoot anybody.
>> Democrats, Republicans, or even his friends.
>
>I see, he shoots everybody, so that's a shooting suitable for
>democracy?
>:)

Well, the lawyer never did press charges. And you know how lawyers
love to sue.
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