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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS
| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296428 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 19:24 |
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Preacher wrote:
> Clell Harmon <c.harmon [at] mchsi.com> wrote:
>
>> It followed the beating I got for questioning the bible, personally
>> delivered by the good Reverend of my mother's Baptist Church. I learned
>> to keep my mouth shut, and to hate the abject applied ignorance of
>> unquestioning faith very very much.
>>
>> My crime? Noting that his sermon about the vessel in Solomon's temple
>> that was 30 cubits around and 10 cubits across would have a pi of 3. We
>> had just covered pi in math class, and were Solomon's vessel couldn't
>> exist in our universe. I asked why the bible was wrong.
>>
>> It was only 25 years later that I got to piss on that raving asshole's
>> grave, quite literally.
>>
>> I embarked on a search for a religion that made sense in my late teens,
>> making my way through most of the Chisto/Judaic/Moslem sects, finding
>> that they all believe pretty much the same silly crap. Of all the
>> religions I have found only the Wicca hadn't killed anyone recently, but
>> do they ever believe in their own brand of silly crap.
>
> Well, I'm not interested in getting into a long debate about the merits
> or believability of Christianity vs. anything else, certainly not in
> this forum.
>
> But I did want to say that I'm sorry you were treated so poorly in the
> church. That was wrong, and I think most Christians would acknowledge
> that.
>
> Hope that you find (or have found) whatever it is that you're looking
> for.
Yep, the Church of Reality. If it's real, we believe in it.
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296431 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 21:04 |
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Clell Harmon <c.harmon [at] mchsi.com> wrote:
> Preacher wrote:
> > Clell Harmon <c.harmon [at] mchsi.com> wrote:
> >
> >> It followed the beating I got for questioning the bible,
> >> personally delivered by the good Reverend of my mother's Baptist
> >> Church. I learned to keep my mouth shut, and to hate the abject
> >> applied ignorance of unquestioning faith very very much.
> >>
> >> My crime? Noting that his sermon about the vessel in Solomon's
> >> temple that was 30 cubits around and 10 cubits across would have a pi
> >> of 3. We had just covered pi in math class, and were Solomon's vessel
> >> couldn't exist in our universe. I asked why the bible was wrong.
> >>
> >> It was only 25 years later that I got to piss on that raving
> >> asshole's grave, quite literally.
> >>
> >> I embarked on a search for a religion that made sense in my late
> >> teens, making my way through most of the Chisto/Judaic/Moslem sects,
> >> finding that they all believe pretty much the same silly crap. Of all
> >> the religions I have found only the Wicca hadn't killed anyone
> >> recently, but do they ever believe in their own brand of silly crap.
> >
> > Well, I'm not interested in getting into a long debate about the merits
> > or believability of Christianity vs. anything else, certainly not in
> > this forum.
> >
> > But I did want to say that I'm sorry you were treated so poorly in the
> > church. That was wrong, and I think most Christians would acknowledge
> > that.
> >
> > Hope that you find (or have found) whatever it is that you're looking
> > for.
>
> Yep, the Church of Reality. If it's real, we believe in it.
Ah, so we're in the same church.
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296438 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 02:11 |
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"John Schilling" <schillin [at] spock.usc.edu> wrote in message
news:v03la2pf5r8krp1em6qschbg5s4n003936 [at] 4ax.com...
> On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 04:02:08 GMT, Clell Harmon <c.harmon [at] mchsi.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>> The world of TNG is sort of a left wingers paradise, no money, everyone
>>> gets along (everyone on Earth at least), religion is considered a
>>> superstition from the past, Earth has one government, etc.
>>>
I see so you don't want everyone to get along and all this senseless
violence and killing in the name of God or Allah to stop and for us to just
treat each other like human beings?
Seon
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296439 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 02:17 |
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Clell Harmon wrote:
> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>
>> Clell Harmon wrote:
>>
>>> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clell Harmon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The world of TNG is sort of a left wingers paradise, no money,
>>>>>> everyone gets along (everyone on Earth at least), religion is
>>>>>> considered a superstition from the past, Earth has one government,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In real life things wouldn't work that way of course.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you saying that people will never grow up?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Growing up has nothing to do with it, people are people and the laws
>>>> of economics don't change.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No they don't. So, what happens when supply is unexhaustable,
>>> demand is met, and inflation is nil?
>>
>>
>> IF that were to happen a LOT of people would sit around, get fat and
>> do nothing figuring society owes them a living. We get a lot of that
>> NOW.
>
>
> Are you speaking for yourself here? I on the other hand think more
> of people, having the example of retired people who, having all their
> basic needs met, seek to improve themselves in various ways.
>
> Bill Gates never hasn't needed to work for many years, yet showed
> up for work daily, AND runs one of the world's premier private charities.
>
No, I'm not talking about myself, retirees, or Bill Gates, but there ARE
a lot of people sitting around waiting for their welfare check every
month who figure society owes them a living... and more fools we, we
give it to them.
>>>
>>> What happens when people realize that religions were developed
>>> when the priests figured out that priesting involved no heavy lifting?
>>
>>
>> Faith, belief in a higher power, something bigger than yourself,
>> doesn't require priests. I believe in God, and have seen things that
>> convince me something more is going on than we understand, but that
>> doesn't require a priest.
>
>
> Examples of these things you've seen?
No, those aren't things I'm going to share in a forum like this. It was
enough to convince ME, that is what's important. I am not here to
convince anyone else that there is a higher power, it's up to them to
decide for themselves.
>
>>
>> Not that there is anything wrong with Clergy (well there are some Mad
>> Mullahs in the Middle East that need to be sent to Allah ASAP, but
>> that is another conversation!)
>
>
> Scratch a believer and you'll find a mindless mass murderer in
> waiting. History bears this out beyond any doubt.
You mean me or the Mad Mullahs? Hitler and Stalin were two of the
biggest mass murderers in history and they weren't believers in anything
much other than themselves.
Jeff DeWitt
>
>
>>
>> Jeff DeWitt
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jeff DeWitt
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff DeWitt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> El Puerco wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Jack" <benjil81 [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:1151904422.253995.202520 [at] b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Commander Lee Adama wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Star Trek was, and is, total cheese and kitsch. Battlestar
>>>>>>>>> Galactica is
>>>>>>>>> totally cool and hip with wicked special effects and hot babes.
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> fans of the show are way cooler than trekkies too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Commander Lee Adama (show the respect)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are going to piss off some people and your remarks about the
>>>>>>>> fans
>>>>>>>> are absurd, but the fact is you are basically right. As a scifi
>>>>>>>> fan all
>>>>>>>> my life I never could stand Star Trek TOS, and even more TNG
>>>>>>>> with it's
>>>>>>>> stupid left wing agenda.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Left wing agenda? Please explain.
>>>>>>>
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296441 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 02:29 |
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On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:11:22 +1000, seon ferguson wrote:
> "John Schilling" <schillin [at] spock.usc.edu> wrote in message
> news:v03la2pf5r8krp1em6qschbg5s4n003936 [at] 4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 04:02:08 GMT, Clell Harmon <c.harmon [at] mchsi.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>>> The world of TNG is sort of a left wingers paradise, no money, everyone
>>>> gets along (everyone on Earth at least), religion is considered a
>>>> superstition from the past, Earth has one government, etc.
>>>>
> I see so you don't want everyone to get along and all this senseless
> violence and killing in the name of God or Allah to stop and for us to just
> treat each other like human beings?
In case you hadn't noticed, every attempt so far at creating a
socialist utopia has:
1. Had non-religion as part of its foundation,
2. Killed millions of people to get started,
3. Failed. (Except perhaps China, which hasn't really failed yet and
seems to be morphing into some kind of quasi-socialist-fascist state
that is actually bringing in some serious money.)
As much as I enjoy Trek, the idea that a "one world government" would
create a utopian society is just plain idiotic. It's clearly
important to the mythos, as entrance to the Federation requires some
form of united planetary government.
History shows that the less localized government becomes, the less
freedom citizens have.
Anyway, we have thousands of years of recorded human history. The
notion that within the next couple-hundred years we will suddenly
start "getting along" is hard to swallow at best. You can't blame
someone for criticizing it.
--
Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz
Promote someone else.
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296442 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 02:19 |
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Bob wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 01:44:32 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Not that there is anything wrong with Clergy (well there are some Mad
>>Mullahs in the Middle East that need to be sent to Allah ASAP, but that
>>is another conversation!)
>
>
> Don't forget about the pedophiles and homos who abuse children by
> taking advantage of their position in society.
>
> Or were those kids just asking for it?
>
>
Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to
the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more. (and no,
persecuted was NOT a typo!)
Jeff DeWitt
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296443 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 03:34 |
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Commander Lee Adama wrote:
> Star Trek was, and is, total cheese and kitsch. Battlestar Galactica
> is totally cool and hip with wicked special effects and hot babes. The
> fans of the show are way cooler than trekkies too.
>
> -Commander Lee Adama (show the respect)
This isn't a debate. Its a troll behavior. Everyone is free to prefer what
ever series he want. Be and let be.
IMHO, StarTrek The NExt Generation is the best tv series ever. Its
philosophical plots are way much sophisticated and mature then BSG will
never be. But, its my point of view and this isn't a debate.
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296444 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 03:34 |
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Jeff DeWitt wrote:
> Troll, keep in mind that if it hadn't been for Star Trek there never
> would have been a BG.
Well said!
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296446 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 04:28 |
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On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:19:12 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
wrote:
>Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to
>the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more. (and no,
>persecuted was NOT a typo!)
The extent to which all the churches are infiltrated by these types of
people is not widely recognized. All it takes is a trip to the county
jail to see just how widespread it is.
--
Stop Repeat Offenders!
Don't Re-elect Them!
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296447 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 04:26 |
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seon ferguson wrote:
> "John Schilling" <schillin [at] spock.usc.edu> wrote in message
> news:v03la2pf5r8krp1em6qschbg5s4n003936 [at] 4ax.com...
>
>>On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 04:02:08 GMT, Clell Harmon <c.harmon [at] mchsi.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>>
>>>>The world of TNG is sort of a left wingers paradise, no money, everyone
>>>>gets along (everyone on Earth at least), religion is considered a
>>>>superstition from the past, Earth has one government, etc.
>>>>
>
> I see so you don't want everyone to get along and all this senseless
> violence and killing in the name of God or Allah to stop and for us to just
> treat each other like human beings?
>
> Seon
>
>
Good grief, get a grip. Some people are violent lowlifes, sometimes
they do it with the excuse Allah, Jesus or Buddha wants them to bash
someone elses head in, sometimes they do it because the other person is
the wrong color, supports the wrong team, likes to have sex with the
wrong people, whatever.
Getting rid of religion would no more get rid of violence than getting
rid of golf or soccer. (well maybe soccer <G>).
Jeff DeWitt
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296449 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 04:57 |
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Bob wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:19:12 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to
>>the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more. (and no,
>>persecuted was NOT a typo!)
>
>
> The extent to which all the churches are infiltrated by these types of
> people is not widely recognized. All it takes is a trip to the county
> jail to see just how widespread it is.
>
>
I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would
have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very
small percentage of the clergy.
Jeff DeWitt
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296451 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 06:11 |
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Jeff DeWitt wrote:
> Clell Harmon wrote:
>> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>
>>> Clell Harmon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Clell Harmon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The world of TNG is sort of a left wingers paradise, no money,
>>>>>>> everyone gets along (everyone on Earth at least), religion is
>>>>>>> considered a superstition from the past, Earth has one
>>>>>>> government, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In real life things wouldn't work that way of course.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you saying that people will never grow up?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Growing up has nothing to do with it, people are people and the
>>>>> laws of economics don't change.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No they don't. So, what happens when supply is unexhaustable,
>>>> demand is met, and inflation is nil?
>>>
>>>
>>> IF that were to happen a LOT of people would sit around, get fat and
>>> do nothing figuring society owes them a living. We get a lot of that
>>> NOW.
>>
>>
>> Are you speaking for yourself here? I on the other hand think
>> more of people, having the example of retired people who, having all
>> their basic needs met, seek to improve themselves in various ways.
>>
>> Bill Gates never hasn't needed to work for many years, yet showed
>> up for work daily, AND runs one of the world's premier private charities.
>>
>
> No, I'm not talking about myself, retirees, or Bill Gates, but there ARE
> a lot of people sitting around waiting for their welfare check every
> month who figure society owes them a living... and more fools we, we
> give it to them.
Is it not the 'Christian' thing to do?
>
>>>>
>>>> What happens when people realize that religions were developed
>>>> when the priests figured out that priesting involved no heavy lifting?
>>>
>>>
>>> Faith, belief in a higher power, something bigger than yourself,
>>> doesn't require priests. I believe in God, and have seen things that
>>> convince me something more is going on than we understand, but that
>>> doesn't require a priest.
>>
>>
>> Examples of these things you've seen?
>
> No, those aren't things I'm going to share in a forum like this. It was
> enough to convince ME, that is what's important. I am not here to
> convince anyone else that there is a higher power, it's up to them to
> decide for themselves.
I find it extremely odd that despite many of your fellow travelers
claiming to have seen things that convince them of the existence of a
god, yet never seem to be willing (or able?) to explain what those
things might be....
>>
>>>
>>> Not that there is anything wrong with Clergy (well there are some Mad
>>> Mullahs in the Middle East that need to be sent to Allah ASAP, but
>>> that is another conversation!)
>>
>>
>> Scratch a believer and you'll find a mindless mass murderer in
>> waiting. History bears this out beyond any doubt.
>
> You mean me or the Mad Mullahs? Hitler and Stalin were two of the
> biggest mass murderers in history and they weren't believers in anything
> much other than themselves.
Any believer of any stripe. You guys are dangerous. History
demonstrates this quite clearly.
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Jeff DeWitt
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff DeWitt
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeff DeWitt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> El Puerco wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Jack" <benjil81 [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:1151904422.253995.202520 [at] b68g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Commander Lee Adama wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Star Trek was, and is, total cheese and kitsch. Battlestar
>>>>>>>>>> Galactica is
>>>>>>>>>> totally cool and hip with wicked special effects and hot
>>>>>>>>>> babes. The
>>>>>>>>>> fans of the show are way cooler than trekkies too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Commander Lee Adama (show the respect)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are going to piss off some people and your remarks about
>>>>>>>>> the fans
>>>>>>>>> are absurd, but the fact is you are basically right. As a scifi
>>>>>>>>> fan all
>>>>>>>>> my life I never could stand Star Trek TOS, and even more TNG
>>>>>>>>> with it's
>>>>>>>>> stupid left wing agenda.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Left wing agenda? Please explain.
>>>>>>>>
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296452 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 06:14 |
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Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:11:22 +1000, seon ferguson wrote:
>
>> "John Schilling" <schillin [at] spock.usc.edu> wrote in message
>> news:v03la2pf5r8krp1em6qschbg5s4n003936 [at] 4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 04:02:08 GMT, Clell Harmon <c.harmon [at] mchsi.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>>>> The world of TNG is sort of a left wingers paradise, no money, everyone
>>>>> gets along (everyone on Earth at least), religion is considered a
>>>>> superstition from the past, Earth has one government, etc.
>>>>>
>> I see so you don't want everyone to get along and all this senseless
>> violence and killing in the name of God or Allah to stop and for us to just
>> treat each other like human beings?
>
> In case you hadn't noticed, every attempt so far at creating a
> socialist utopia has:
>
> 1. Had non-religion as part of its foundation,
> 2. Killed millions of people to get started,
> 3. Failed. (Except perhaps China, which hasn't really failed yet and
> seems to be morphing into some kind of quasi-socialist-fascist state
> that is actually bringing in some serious money.)
>
> As much as I enjoy Trek, the idea that a "one world government" would
> create a utopian society is just plain idiotic. It's clearly
> important to the mythos, as entrance to the Federation requires some
> form of united planetary government.
>
> History shows that the less localized government becomes, the less
> freedom citizens have.
Does it now? So in your view, the serfs of a medieval fiefdom (about
as local a government as you can get) were more free than you are now?
>
>
> Anyway, we have thousands of years of recorded human history. The
> notion that within the next couple-hundred years we will suddenly
> start "getting along" is hard to swallow at best. You can't blame
> someone for criticizing it.
>
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296454 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 06:56 |
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On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:57:23 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
wrote:
>I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would
>have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very
>small percentage of the clergy.
You are wrong, although it does vary from sect to sect. Some sects
like the Jesuits are heterosexual. They are a bunch of alcoholics.
--
Stop Repeat Offenders!
Don't Re-elect Them!
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296457 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 16:42 |
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On 2006-07-07, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
> Bob wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:19:12 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to
>>>the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more. (and no,
>>>persecuted was NOT a typo!)
>>
>>
>> The extent to which all the churches are infiltrated by these types of
>> people is not widely recognized. All it takes is a trip to the county
>> jail to see just how widespread it is.
>>
>>
> I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would
> have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very
> small percentage of the clergy.
It's an institutional problem.
First you've got the whole "lets circle the wagons" corporate mentality
of large organized religion (particularly catholocism) coupled with difficult
(if not impossible) anti-natural moral standards. People who are uncomfortable
with their own sexuality due to their religion encouraging that sort of thing
are driven to the idea of "curing" it or simply suppressing it (in a vulcan
sort of way).
Ironically enough, it's this Vulcan sort of mindset that's driving
the problem. Then the corporate politics within the priest mangement structure
takes over and enables the priests who (predictably) fail to live up the the
Vulcan ideal.
>
> Jeff DeWitt
--
Truth is irrelevant as long as the predictions are good. |||
/ | \
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296459 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 19:45 |
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"Jeff DeWitt" <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:SKhrg.45055$R26.25194 [at] tornado.southeast.rr.com...
> No, I'm not talking about myself, retirees, or Bill Gates, but there ARE a
> lot of people sitting around waiting for their welfare check every month
> who figure society owes them a living... and more fools we, we give it to
> them.
Most people on welfare live in rural areas and have seen their livelihoods
displaced by more efficient agriculture production. Markets (free or
otherwise) have a tendency to do that to large groups of people without any
real warning, especially those whose husbands leave them (with a passel o'
young'uns) for greener pastures.
Are you suggesting that we, as a society, have no obligation to ameliorate
the more destructive tendencies of the marketplace? It seems to me that you
either try to control the market (and fail) or provide a minimal safety net
for those left out in the cold. But maybe I'm just soft-hearted that way.
:-)
If you still maintain that there is no place for welfare assistance, then I
think we just want to live in two different societies. If, OTOH, you are
imagining the "welfare mother" image so successfully manipulated by the
Reagan administration (and still in currency today), then here's a pretty
well-researched and short (if biased in its presentation) article:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-welfarequeen.htm
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296460 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 19:51 |
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"Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz" <starfist.at.gmail.dot.com> wrote in
message news:favu7tvxkoum.dlg [at] starfist.thorsfinni...
> As much as I enjoy Trek, the idea that a "one world government" would
> create a utopian society is just plain idiotic. It's clearly
> important to the mythos, as entrance to the Federation requires some
> form of united planetary government.
Maybe you have it the other way 'round? I've not read any Trek canon so I
don't know their story, but it seems far more likely to me that advanced
technology would be the impetus for a utopian society and the one world
gov't just comes naturally after that.
What is their story, anyway? Oh, nevermind, google is my friend...
Ah, scratch that. A lot of people seem to have written a lot of stuff about
Star Trek (and I have to get working sometime). :-)
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296461 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 21:33 |
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"El Puerco" <arriba [at] soap.fan> wrote in message
news:lb6dnetZeY4KADPZnZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
> Are you suggesting that we, as a society, have no obligation to ameliorate
> the more destructive tendencies of the marketplace?
The answer is no to both your explicit question and to your implicit "we, as
a society" assertion.
That last is sheer obfuscation and contains a plethora of false assumptions.
It's true only at the level of my individual obligation, duplicated many
times over for others, to care for my mother in old age, and that sort of
thing. Your use of that phrase is just code for communism, or a
less-charged term might alternately be communalism.
> It seems to me that you either try to control the market (and fail) or
> provide a minimal safety net for those left out in the cold. But maybe
> I'm just soft-hearted that way. :-)
No, soft thinking. You need to consider the whole picture. Consider
calling in sick to work. It's really not a binary matter at all, unless I'm
hospitalized or some-such. Instead, I (and most people) weigh many factors
such as how ill I really am, how much pain, are others expecting me for a
meeting, stuff like that.
Additionally, there are factors like "how many sick days do I have left?"
If you think it through, you'll see that there is no question whatsoever
that if company "A" gives employees 30 sick days a year, there will
absolutely and positively be more sickness than at company "B" where only 20
sick days are allowed.
The point is that you *must* consider the *fact* that by addressing the
issue, you invariably make it worse. Economists like to say that you will
get more of anything you subsidize. Unfortunately, this applies as well to
poverty, disability, what-have-you.
>
> If you still maintain that there is no place for welfare assistance, then
> I think we just want to live in two different societies. If, OTOH, you
> are imagining the "welfare mother" image so successfully manipulated by
> the Reagan administration (and still in currency today), then here's a
> pretty well-researched and short (if biased in its presentation) article:
Yeah, I ignore all the propaganda from either side. No one (well, except
perhaps a professional scammer) is getting wealthy via the welfare system.
Just concede that your well-intentioned proposals invariably change the
landscape that we're discussing. Analogize to Heisenberg.
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296462 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 00:09 |
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On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:45:16 -0500, "El Puerco" <arriba [at] soap.fan> wrote:
>Most people on welfare live in rural areas
Nonsense. Most welfare recipients are urban, and the majority of them are
white (though whites do not make up the largest group per capita ..)
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296464 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 05:08 |
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Clell Harmon wrote:
> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>
>> Clell Harmon wrote:
>>
>>> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clell Harmon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Clell Harmon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The world of TNG is sort of a left wingers paradise, no money,
>>>>>>>> everyone gets along (everyone on Earth at least), religion is
>>>>>>>> considered a superstition from the past, Earth has one
>>>>>>>> government, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In real life things wouldn't work that way of course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you saying that people will never grow up?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Growing up has nothing to do with it, people are people and the
>>>>>> laws of economics don't change.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No they don't. So, what happens when supply is unexhaustable,
>>>>> demand is met, and inflation is nil?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> IF that were to happen a LOT of people would sit around, get fat and
>>>> do nothing figuring society owes them a living. We get a lot of
>>>> that NOW.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you speaking for yourself here? I on the other hand think
>>> more of people, having the example of retired people who, having all
>>> their basic needs met, seek to improve themselves in various ways.
>>>
>>> Bill Gates never hasn't needed to work for many years, yet
>>> showed up for work daily, AND runs one of the world's premier
>>> private charities.
>>>
>>
>> No, I'm not talking about myself, retirees, or Bill Gates, but there
>> ARE a lot of people sitting around waiting for their welfare check
>> every month who figure society owes them a living... and more fools
>> we, we give it to them.
>
>
> Is it not the 'Christian' thing to do?
No, if your able but not willing to do something about your situation
you can bloody well starve for all I care. However if someone is in
that situation, it's not of their making, and they really are unable to
do something about it then society (not necessarily government), should
step in to help.
But we do not OWE anyone a living.
>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What happens when people realize that religions were developed
>>>>> when the priests figured out that priesting involved no heavy lifting?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Faith, belief in a higher power, something bigger than yourself,
>>>> doesn't require priests. I believe in God, and have seen things
>>>> that convince me something more is going on than we understand, but
>>>> that doesn't require a priest.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Examples of these things you've seen?
>>
>>
>> No, those aren't things I'm going to share in a forum like this. It
>> was enough to convince ME, that is what's important. I am not here to
>> convince anyone else that there is a higher power, it's up to them to
>> decide for themselves.
>
>
> I find it extremely odd that despite many of your fellow travelers
> claiming to have seen things that convince them of the existence of a
> god, yet never seem to be willing (or able?) to explain what those
> things might be....
You haven't tried very hard, go to just about any Church and you should
find people more then willing to share their experiences with you. Here
and now I am not one of them.
I suspect you are one of those people who would not allow themselves to
be convinced anyway. I was one of those myself years ago, but I outgrew it.
Jeff DeWitt
<BIG SNIP>
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296465 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 05:12 |
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JEDIDIAH wrote:
> On 2006-07-07, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Bob wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:19:12 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to
>>>>the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more. (and no,
>>>>persecuted was NOT a typo!)
>>>
>>>
>>>The extent to which all the churches are infiltrated by these types of
>>>people is not widely recognized. All it takes is a trip to the county
>>>jail to see just how widespread it is.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would
>>have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very
>>small percentage of the clergy.
>
>
> It's an institutional problem.
>
> First you've got the whole "lets circle the wagons" corporate mentality
> of large organized religion (particularly catholocism) coupled with difficult
> (if not impossible) anti-natural moral standards. People who are uncomfortable
> with their own sexuality due to their religion encouraging that sort of thing
> are driven to the idea of "curing" it or simply suppressing it (in a vulcan
> sort of way).
>
> Ironically enough, it's this Vulcan sort of mindset that's driving
> the problem. Then the corporate politics within the priest mangement structure
> takes over and enables the priests who (predictably) fail to live up the the
> Vulcan ideal.
>
>
After the scandal the Catholic Church went through a few years ago I
expect they are VERY sensitive to this problem. Do you have any
evidence that they aren't dealing with it?
Jeff DeWitt
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296466 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 05:20 |
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El Puerco wrote:
> "Lance Corporal "Hammer" Schultz" <starfist.at.gmail.dot.com> wrote in
> message news:favu7tvxkoum.dlg [at] starfist.thorsfinni...
>
>
>>As much as I enjoy Trek, the idea that a "one world government" would
>>create a utopian society is just plain idiotic. It's clearly
>>important to the mythos, as entrance to the Federation requires some
>>form of united planetary government.
>
>
> Maybe you have it the other way 'round? I've not read any Trek canon so I
> don't know their story, but it seems far more likely to me that advanced
> technology would be the impetus for a utopian society and the one world
> gov't just comes naturally after that.
>
> What is their story, anyway? Oh, nevermind, google is my friend...
>
> Ah, scratch that. A lot of people seem to have written a lot of stuff about
> Star Trek (and I have to get working sometime). :-)
Trouble with a single world government is what do you do when it gets
out of hand, it's not like there would be any other countries to run
too. Also one of the big reasons for government is to act as a
representative (of sorts) of it's citizens to other governments. Unless
and until there are civilizations off of the Earth and we are in regular
contact with them there is no need for that function.
At least for now there is only one major group out there that really
wants there to be a single world government, and they are doing
everything they can to bring it about, but letting the UN become the
government they so badly want to be would be the worst thing the Human
race has done to itself since... I don't know, since we let Rome fall?
Jeff DeWitt
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296467 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 05:11 |
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Bob wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:57:23 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would
>>have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very
>>small percentage of the clergy.
>
>
> You are wrong, although it does vary from sect to sect. Some sects
> like the Jesuits are heterosexual. They are a bunch of alcoholics.
>
>
What's being heterosexual (or an alcoholic for that matter) have to do
with pedophiles?
Do you have any evidence to back your statement up or do you just like
to bash Jesuits?
Jeff DeWitt
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296468 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 06:06 |
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"George Peatty" <peattyg47-1230 [at] copper.net> wrote in message
news:rrmta21nso4ojs3c6e8kgrtb0cmlh8at0r [at] 4ax.com...
> On Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:45:16 -0500, "El Puerco" <arriba [at] soap.fan> wrote:
>
>>Most people on welfare live in rural areas
>
> Nonsense. Most welfare recipients are urban, and the majority of them are
> white (though whites do not make up the largest group per capita ..)
Interesting! I'd always heard that the South made up the vast majority of
welfare recipients. Time to check some facts. Maybe I've been reading too
loose a definition of "rural."
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296469 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 13:30 |
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On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 03:12:57 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
wrote:
>After the scandal the Catholic Church went through a few years ago I
>expect they are VERY sensitive to this problem. Do you have any
>evidence that they aren't dealing with it?
I heard that in accordance with the Pope's directive, the little kids
they bugger are warned that if they speak out, they will be
excommunicated.
--
Stop Repeat Offenders!
Don't Re-elect Them!
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296470 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 17:31 |
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Eud=E9monix wrote:
> Commander Lee Adama wrote:
> > Star Trek was, and is, total cheese and kitsch. Battlestar Galactica
> > is totally cool and hip with wicked special effects and hot babes. The
> > fans of the show are way cooler than trekkies too.
> >
> > -Commander Lee Adama (show the respect)
>
> This isn't a debate. Its a troll behavior. Everyone is free to prefer what
> ever series he want. Be and let be.
>
> IMHO, StarTrek The NExt Generation is the best tv series ever. Its
> philosophical plots are way much sophisticated and mature then BSG will
> never be. But, its my point of view and this isn't a debate.
I will stand up and say that I enjoy both. I was too young to really
be into TOS, and TNG was my door into Sci-Fi. My enjoyment of TNG was
never based on it's ideology. Never based on what it's vision of the
future was. Because all of the same problems that plague us in our own
time appeared on TNG. While it wasn't Earth in fact, it still held
true to today's problems.
That said, the stories are what were important. Not so much Continuity
or faith or any Left message. But basic story telling. I continued
with DS9, very heavily faith-based stories. Especially when war
entered the equation. Not so much the actual battles, but the threat of
war vs faith. How the worst can be brought out of the most devoted
follower in times of great peril.
That being said I tend to look at things like the bible as not
something to devote to or Chritianity in general to whorsip. But as a
guide. Something to read and learn lesson from.
Now moving from DS9 to VOY and ENT. By far I took a step back from
Star trek after they added Seven. It was VERY clear she was added as a
sole ratings grabber...and nothing more. Now as a business decision it
was smart, since I clearly believe her appearance saved the series, and
gave it the full 7 year run. ENT on the other hand took this and
rather than learning from VOY mistakes. They made them all over again.
What was worse they started the series and promised more sexy scenes.
I know they were trying for a broader audience. But really in
retrospect. The only people who are gonna watch Start Trek
"religiously"...are already Star Trek fans. Your not bringing in a
populous into Star Trek with promises of sexy woman and sexy scenes.
I stand to this day saying, why screw over the fan base you already
have for the chance to bring in people who to that point were not
Sci-Fi fans. The mistake was that they did not focus on the fans they
had, but rather the people who really didn't care.
With the failure of ENT. BSG became an area that didn't have any rules
to follow, besides a few designs from the Original. With no real
continuity to follow, because of the reboot, it became a story with no
blueprint. Nothing to easily critique it from something done in the
past. But they took the same premise as TNG, DS9, YOY, and yes, even a
little ENT. To think they have not, is just being silly and naive.
The arrogance of TNG's ideology, the War / Faith nature of DS9, the
sexy-ratings grabber of VOY, and the anticipation of ENT in seeing
something "new".
BSG is a change of pace from ST. But the elements are there.
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296473 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 23:52 |
|
Bob wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 03:12:57 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>After the scandal the Catholic Church went through a few years ago I
>>expect they are VERY sensitive to this problem. Do you have any
>>evidence that they aren't dealing with it?
>
>
> I heard that in accordance with the Pope's directive, the little kids
> they bugger are warned that if they speak out, they will be
> excommunicated.
>
>
So you DON'T have any evidence and are just Catholic bashing.
Jeff DeWitt
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296479 ] |
So, 09 Juli 2006 12:16 |
|
On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:52:32 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
wrote:
>> I heard that in accordance with the Pope's directive, the little kids
>> they bugger are warned that if they speak out, they will be
>> excommunicated.
>So you DON'T have any evidence and are just Catholic bashing.
The papal directive has been posted widely. You won't look at the
evidence.
--
Stop Repeat Offenders!
Don't Re-elect Them!
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296482 ] |
So, 09 Juli 2006 18:10 |
|
Doesn't sound like it.
"Pope Calls Priestly Pedophilia Worst Form of Evil"
http://www.snapnetwork.org/news/vatican/Pope_calls_priestly. htm
"The abuse which has caused this crisis is by every standard wrong and
rightly considered a crime by society: it is also an appalling sin in
the eyes of God,"
"People need to know that there is no place in the priesthood and
religious life for those who would harm the young,"
http://www.st-andreas.org/artikel/art51.htm
I suppose this is what you were referring to, from the left wing "Guardian"
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,14 69055,00.html
That letter was telling the members of the Church hierarchy how to deal
with these kinds of allegations, it in no way suggested that the kids
(or their families) shouldn't go to the police.
If that isn't it give me a link and I'll take a look, but the evidence
doesn't seem to support your position.
Jeff DeWitt
Bob wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:52:32 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>I heard that in accordance with the Pope's directive, the little kids
>>>they bugger are warned that if they speak out, they will be
>>>excommunicated.
>
>
>
>>So you DON'T have any evidence and are just Catholic bashing.
>
>
> The papal directive has been posted widely. You won't look at the
> evidence.
>
>
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296484 ] |
So, 09 Juli 2006 18:34 |
|
On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:10:51 -0400, JeffDeWitt
<StudeDude100 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>If that isn't it give me a link and I'll take a look, but the evidence
>doesn't seem to support your position.
That's because you did not do your homework.
http://www.christian-witness.org/rcc/Criminales1662.pdf
--
Stop Repeat Offenders!
Don't Re-elect Them!
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296485 ] |
So, 09 Juli 2006 19:03 |
|
I'm not a Catholic and would not presume to speak for the Church, and I
think I did quite enough "homework".
The documents and links I posted are current, that document you posted
is from 1962, things have changed a bit since the mid 20th Century!
Unless you have something more current to post the evidence certainly
does NOT support your position.
Jeff DeWitt
Bob wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 12:10:51 -0400, JeffDeWitt
> <StudeDude100 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>If that isn't it give me a link and I'll take a look, but the evidence
>>doesn't seem to support your position.
>
>
> That's because you did not do your homework.
>
> http://www.christian-witness.org/rcc/Criminales1662.pdf
>
>
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296487 ] |
So, 09 Juli 2006 18:08 |
|
Doesn't sound like it.
"Pope Calls Priestly Pedophilia Worst Form of Evil"
http://www.snapnetwork.org/news/vatican/Pope_calls_priestly. htm
"The abuse which has caused this crisis is by every standard wrong and
rightly considered a crime by society: it is also an appalling sin in
the eyes of God,"
"People need to know that there is no place in the priesthood and
religious life for those who would harm the young,"
http://www.st-andreas.org/artikel/art51.htm
I suppose this is what you were referring to, from the left wing "Guardian"
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,14 69055,00.html
That letter was telling the members of the Church hierarchy how to deal
with these kinds of allegations, it in no way suggested that the kids
(or their families) shouldn't go to the police.
If that isn't it give me a link and I'll take a look, but the evidence
doesn't seem to support your position.
Jeff DeWitt
Bob wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:52:32 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>I heard that in accordance with the Pope's directive, the little kids
>>>they bugger are warned that if they speak out, they will be
>>>excommunicated.
>
>
>
>>So you DON'T have any evidence and are just Catholic bashing.
>
>
> The papal directive has been posted widely. You won't look at the
> evidence.
>
>
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296488 ] |
So, 09 Juli 2006 22:47 |
|
On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:03:12 -0400, JeffDeWitt
<StudeDude100 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>Unless you have something more current to post the evidence certainly
>does NOT support your position.
It is not possible to satisfy you. So I will drop the matter.
Enjoy the bliss you experience from being ignorant.
--
Stop Repeat Offenders!
Don't Re-elect Them!
|
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296490 ] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 01:15 |
|
I understand, most people drop arguments when they realize they have
lost... I've even been known to do it myself on the rare occasion that
I'm wrong <G>.
Cheers!
Jeff DeWitt
Bob wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 13:03:12 -0400, JeffDeWitt
> <StudeDude100 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Unless you have something more current to post the evidence certainly
>>does NOT support your position.
>
>
> It is not possible to satisfy you. So I will drop the matter.
>
> Enjoy the bliss you experience from being ignorant.
>
>
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296491 ] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 15:13 |
|
On 2006-07-08, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
> JEDIDIAH wrote:
>> On 2006-07-07, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Bob wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:19:12 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to
>>>>>the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more. (and no,
>>>>>persecuted was NOT a typo!)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The extent to which all the churches are infiltrated by these types of
>>>>people is not widely recognized. All it takes is a trip to the county
>>>>jail to see just how widespread it is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would
>>>have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very
>>>small percentage of the clergy.
>>
>>
>> It's an institutional problem.
>>
>> First you've got the whole "lets circle the wagons" corporate mentality
>> of large organized religion (particularly catholocism) coupled with difficult
>> (if not impossible) anti-natural moral standards. People who are uncomfortable
>> with their own sexuality due to their religion encouraging that sort of thing
>> are driven to the idea of "curing" it or simply suppressing it (in a vulcan
>> sort of way).
>>
>> Ironically enough, it's this Vulcan sort of mindset that's driving
>> the problem. Then the corporate politics within the priest mangement structure
>> takes over and enables the priests who (predictably) fail to live up the the
>> Vulcan ideal.
>>
>>
> After the scandal the Catholic Church went through a few years ago I
> expect they are VERY sensitive to this problem. Do you have any
> evidence that they aren't dealing with it?
Now that it's blown up in their faces, IN THE WORLD PRESS, after
40 DECADES of this BS going on? Sure. Even a company like Enron or Exxon
will clean up it's act if a house collectively falls on them and it becomes
painfully obvious that it's in their best interest to actually live up to
social norms or their own charter.
What the catholic church does now really doesn't matter that much.
Although, even now their reaction has been remarkably weak. They
have been preying upon the weakest of those within their protection or
enabling it. There should be some Bishops burning in Rome. No real remediation
has yet transpired.
--
Sure, I could use iTunes even under Linux. However, I have |||
better things to do with my time than deal with how iTunes doesn't / | \
want to play nicely with everyone else's data (namely mine). I'd
rather create a DVD using those Linux apps we're told don't exist.
|
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296495 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 02:42 |
|
I am NOT a Catholic, I've got a lot of respect for that Church but I'm
also well aware that it's run by human beings with all the failures and
sins that we are capable of.
All of that being said it looks to me as an outsider that the Church is
seriously trying to deal with a really ugly situation. They handled it
very badly in the past, but they, like we, can't change the past.
They BETTER be serious about dealing with it, because there are people
who will do everything they can to destroy the Church if they get half a
chance, including lawyers who smell blood in the water and politicians
who (correctly) see religion as a counter to their power.
Aren't there any Catholics here who can speak more authoritatively about
your Church then me?
Jeff DeWitt
JEDIDIAH wrote:
> On 2006-07-08, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>
>>>On 2006-07-07, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:19:12 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to
>>>>>>the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more. (and no,
>>>>>>persecuted was NOT a typo!)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The extent to which all the churches are infiltrated by these types of
>>>>>people is not widely recognized. All it takes is a trip to the county
>>>>>jail to see just how widespread it is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would
>>>>have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very
>>>>small percentage of the clergy.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's an institutional problem.
>>>
>>> First you've got the whole "lets circle the wagons" corporate mentality
>>>of large organized religion (particularly catholocism) coupled with difficult
>>>(if not impossible) anti-natural moral standards. People who are uncomfortable
>>>with their own sexuality due to their religion encouraging that sort of thing
>>>are driven to the idea of "curing" it or simply suppressing it (in a vulcan
>>>sort of way).
>>>
>>> Ironically enough, it's this Vulcan sort of mindset that's driving
>>>the problem. Then the corporate politics within the priest mangement structure
>>>takes over and enables the priests who (predictably) fail to live up the the
>>>Vulcan ideal.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>After the scandal the Catholic Church went through a few years ago I
>>expect they are VERY sensitive to this problem. Do you have any
>>evidence that they aren't dealing with it?
>
>
> Now that it's blown up in their faces, IN THE WORLD PRESS, after
> 40 DECADES of this BS going on? Sure. Even a company like Enron or Exxon
> will clean up it's act if a house collectively falls on them and it becomes
> painfully obvious that it's in their best interest to actually live up to
> social norms or their own charter.
>
> What the catholic church does now really doesn't matter that much.
>
> Although, even now their reaction has been remarkably weak. They
> have been preying upon the weakest of those within their protection or
> enabling it. There should be some Bishops burning in Rome. No real remediation
> has yet transpired.
>
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
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| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296496 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 02:40 |
|
I am NOT a Catholic, I've got a lot of respect for that Church but I'm
also well aware that it's run by human beings with all the failures and
sins that we are capable of.
All of that being said it looks to me as an outsider that the Church is
seriously trying to deal with a really ugly situation. They handled it
very badly in the past, but they, like we, can't change the past.
They BETTER be serious about dealing with it, because there are people
who will do everything they can to destroy the Church if they get half a
chance, including lawyers who smell blood in the water and politicians
who (correctly) see religion as a counter to their power.
Aren't there any Catholics here who can speak more authoritatively about
your Church then me?
Jeff DeWitt
JEDIDIAH wrote:
> On 2006-07-08, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>
>>>On 2006-07-07, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:19:12 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to
>>>>>>the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more. (and no,
>>>>>>persecuted was NOT a typo!)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The extent to which all the churches are infiltrated by these types of
>>>>>people is not widely recognized. All it takes is a trip to the county
>>>>>jail to see just how widespread it is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would
>>>>have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very
>>>>small percentage of the clergy.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's an institutional problem.
>>>
>>> First you've got the whole "lets circle the wagons" corporate mentality
>>>of large organized religion (particularly catholocism) coupled with difficult
>>>(if not impossible) anti-natural moral standards. People who are uncomfortable
>>>with their own sexuality due to their religion encouraging that sort of thing
>>>are driven to the idea of "curing" it or simply suppressing it (in a vulcan
>>>sort of way).
>>>
>>> Ironically enough, it's this Vulcan sort of mindset that's driving
>>>the problem. Then the corporate politics within the priest mangement structure
>>>takes over and enables the priests who (predictably) fail to live up the the
>>>Vulcan ideal.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>After the scandal the Catholic Church went through a few years ago I
>>expect they are VERY sensitive to this problem. Do you have any
>>evidence that they aren't dealing with it?
>
>
> Now that it's blown up in their faces, IN THE WORLD PRESS, after
> 40 DECADES of this BS going on? Sure. Even a company like Enron or Exxon
> will clean up it's act if a house collectively falls on them and it becomes
> painfully obvious that it's in their best interest to actually live up to
> social norms or their own charter.
>
> What the catholic church does now really doesn't matter that much.
>
> Although, even now their reaction has been remarkably weak. They
> have been preying upon the weakest of those within their protection or
> enabling it. There should be some Bishops burning in Rome. No real remediation
> has yet transpired.
>
|
|
|
| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296497 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 02:35 |
|
I am NOT a Catholic, I've got a lot of respect for that Church but I'm
also well aware that it's run by human beings with all the failures and
sins that we are capable of.
All of that being said it looks to me as an outsider that the Church is
seriously trying to deal with a really ugly situation. They handled it
very badly in the past, but they, like we, can't change the past.
They BETTER be serious about dealing with it, because there are people
who will do everything they can to destroy the Church if they get half a
chance, including lawyers who smell blood in the water and politicians
who (correctly) see religion as a counter to their power.
Aren't there any Catholics here who can speak more authoritatively about
your Church then me?
Jeff DeWitt
JEDIDIAH wrote:
> On 2006-07-08, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>
>>>On 2006-07-07, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:19:12 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to
>>>>>>the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more. (and no,
>>>>>>persecuted was NOT a typo!)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The extent to which all the churches are infiltrated by these types of
>>>>>people is not widely recognized. All it takes is a trip to the county
>>>>>jail to see just how widespread it is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would
>>>>have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very
>>>>small percentage of the clergy.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's an institutional problem.
>>>
>>> First you've got the whole "lets circle the wagons" corporate mentality
>>>of large organized religion (particularly catholocism) coupled with difficult
>>>(if not impossible) anti-natural moral standards. People who are uncomfortable
>>>with their own sexuality due to their religion encouraging that sort of thing
>>>are driven to the idea of "curing" it or simply suppressing it (in a vulcan
>>>sort of way).
>>>
>>> Ironically enough, it's this Vulcan sort of mindset that's driving
>>>the problem. Then the corporate politics within the priest mangement structure
>>>takes over and enables the priests who (predictably) fail to live up the the
>>>Vulcan ideal.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>After the scandal the Catholic Church went through a few years ago I
>>expect they are VERY sensitive to this problem. Do you have any
>>evidence that they aren't dealing with it?
>
>
> Now that it's blown up in their faces, IN THE WORLD PRESS, after
> 40 DECADES of this BS going on? Sure. Even a company like Enron or Exxon
> will clean up it's act if a house collectively falls on them and it becomes
> painfully obvious that it's in their best interest to actually live up to
> social norms or their own charter.
>
> What the catholic church does now really doesn't matter that much.
>
> Although, even now their reaction has been remarkably weak. They
> have been preying upon the weakest of those within their protection or
> enabling it. There should be some Bishops burning in Rome. No real remediation
> has yet transpired.
>
|
|
|
| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296498 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 04:38 |
|
DOOH!
Freaking news servers!
Jeff DeWitt
JEDIDIAH wrote:
> On 2006-07-08, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>
>>>On 2006-07-07, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:19:12 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to
>>>>>>the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more. (and no,
>>>>>>persecuted was NOT a typo!)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The extent to which all the churches are infiltrated by these types of
>>>>>people is not widely recognized. All it takes is a trip to the county
>>>>>jail to see just how widespread it is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would
>>>>have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very
>>>>small percentage of the clergy.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's an institutional problem.
>>>
>>> First you've got the whole "lets circle the wagons" corporate mentality
>>>of large organized religion (particularly catholocism) coupled with difficult
>>>(if not impossible) anti-natural moral standards. People who are uncomfortable
>>>with their own sexuality due to their religion encouraging that sort of thing
>>>are driven to the idea of "curing" it or simply suppressing it (in a vulcan
>>>sort of way).
>>>
>>> Ironically enough, it's this Vulcan sort of mindset that's driving
>>>the problem. Then the corporate politics within the priest mangement structure
>>>takes over and enables the priests who (predictably) fail to live up the the
>>>Vulcan ideal.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>After the scandal the Catholic Church went through a few years ago I
>>expect they are VERY sensitive to this problem. Do you have any
>>evidence that they aren't dealing with it?
>
>
> Now that it's blown up in their faces, IN THE WORLD PRESS, after
> 40 DECADES of this BS going on? Sure. Even a company like Enron or Exxon
> will clean up it's act if a house collectively falls on them and it becomes
> painfully obvious that it's in their best interest to actually live up to
> social norms or their own charter.
>
> What the catholic church does now really doesn't matter that much.
>
> Although, even now their reaction has been remarkably weak. They
> have been preying upon the weakest of those within their protection or
> enabling it. There should be some Bishops burning in Rome. No real remediation
> has yet transpired.
>
|
|
|
| Re: BATTLESTAR GALACTICA IS WAY BETTER THAN STAR TREK EVER WAS [message #296499 ] |
Di, 11 Juli 2006 09:35 |
|
Please visit www.kenlayisalive.org, an informative website devoted to
tracking the movements of the "late" Kenneth L. Lay, convicted felon
and former CEO of Enron Corporation.
You may send all of your reports to sightings [at] kenlayisalive.org
Americans for Equal Justice is providing this site as a public service
for all of those who demand that Ken Lay and other white-collar
criminals be brought to justice. We welcome and will publish any and
all relevant information on the whereabouts of Kenneth L. Lay.
Americans for Equal Justice strongly suggests that you not only report
your findings to us, but most importantly, to your local news outlets.
Please send any links to news outlets reporting your sightings to our
organization as well.
You may send all of your reports to sightings [at] kenlayisalive.org
We here at Americans for Equal Justice feel strongly that the
possibility exists that Mr. Lay, like Hitler, Elvis, and Tupac before
him, has faked his own death in order to avoid any more unwanted public
scrutiny. If this is true, then it is our responsibility as good
Americans to bring this criminal to justice by reporting his
whereabouts to the proper authorities.
Thank you for your support,
Americans for Equal Justice
http://blogs.dfw.com/startle_grams/2006/07/who_knew_that_k.h tml
JEDIDIAH wrote:
> On 2006-07-08, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
> > JEDIDIAH wrote:
> >> On 2006-07-07, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Bob wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:19:12 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Obviously not, and those "pedophiles and homos" need to be persecuted to
> >>>>>the fullest extent of the law...and perhaps a bit more. (and no,
> >>>>>persecuted was NOT a typo!)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>The extent to which all the churches are infiltrated by these types of
> >>>>people is not widely recognized. All it takes is a trip to the county
> >>>>jail to see just how widespread it is.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>I don't think the problem is nearly as widespread as some people would
> >>>have us believe... and no matter how widespread it is it's still a very
> >>>small percentage of the clergy.
> >>
> >>
> >> It's an institutional problem.
> >>
> >> First you've got the whole "lets circle the wagons" corporate mentality
> >> of large organized religion (particularly catholocism) coupled with difficult
> >> (if not impossible) anti-natural moral standards. People who are uncomfortable
> >> with their own sexuality due to their religion encouraging that sort of thing
> >> are driven to the idea of "curing" it or simply suppressing it (in a vulcan
> >> sort of way).
> >>
> >> Ironically enough, it's this Vulcan sort of mindset that's driving
> >> the problem. Then the corporate politics within the priest mangement structure
> >> takes over and enables the priests who (predictably) fail to live up the the
> >> Vulcan ideal.
> >>
> >>
> > After the scandal the Catholic Church went through a few years ago I
> > expect they are VERY sensitive to this problem. Do you have any
> > evidence that they aren't dealing with it?
>
> Now that it's blown up in their faces, IN THE WORLD PRESS, after
> 40 DECADES of this BS going on? Sure. Even a company like Enron or Exxon
> will clean up it's act if a house collectively falls on them and it becomes
> painfully obvious that it's in their best interest to actually live up to
> social norms or their own charter.
>
> What the catholic church does now really doesn't matter that much.
>
> Although, even now their reaction has been remarkably weak. They
> have been preying upon the weakest of those within their protection or
> enabling it. There should be some Bishops burning in Rome. No real remediation
> has yet transpired.
>
> --
> Sure, I could use iTunes even under Linux. However, I have |||
> better things to do with my time than deal with how iTunes doesn't / | \
> want to play nicely with everyone else's data (namely mine). I'd
> rather create a DVD using those Linux apps we're told don't exist.
|
|
|
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