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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » AFT/RABT Titles Update
| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #295397 ] |
Mo, 03 Juli 2006 19:08 |
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Morgoth's Curse wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:53:33 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon [at] zonnet.nl>
> wrote:
>> Morgoth's Curse wrote:
>>> The title of FOOL is now bestowed upon the Flame of the West.
>>> Congratulations, Solinas! ; -)
>> I want some acknowledgement for Tamf, who is still the Fool of
>> the Black Club and thereby a better fool than Flame of the West.
> Tamf is a dragon and I choose to heed the wisdom of the revered
> sage J.R.R. Tolkien: "Never laugh at live dragons."
Oh, I don't laugh _at_ her... It's all at the expense of others!
T.
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #295398 ] |
Mo, 03 Juli 2006 19:09 |
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Morgoth's Curse wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:53:33 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon [at] zonnet.nl>
> wrote:
>> T, Massster.
> Incidentally, I cannot grant your request to be the "mad
> scientist" of AFT/RABT, but how do you feel about the title of
> ALCHEMIST? I presume that you have a collection of beakers,
> cauldrons and other tools of the trade that you can use to
> concoct unholy substances while you cackle evilly? ;-)
Of course, of course I do. Hm. I could go with that, I guess, but...
why can't I be Mad Scientist, again?
T.
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #295416 ] |
Mo, 03 Juli 2006 23:28 |
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"Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151934929.689735.301510 [at] p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> BaJoRi schreef:
>
>> "Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1151763870.602666.6820 [at] v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > BTW Your 'digging up of old threads' is actually quite clever. Google
>> > did not want me to reply to this (your) post:
>> >
>> > Well, I am considering unsubscribing from alt.org.sierra-club and
>> > alt.forestry. Much to my disappointment, alt.org.sierra-club is just
>> > a collection of links and partisan sneers: "It's all the liberals'
>> > fault! No, It's the Republicans' fault!" and so on.
>
> LOL, so you can do it also. This is indeed the post I meant.
>>
>> In some ways, I have always perceived LotR as somewhat of a parable of
>> environmental friendliness. That may not have been Tolkien's intention,
>> but
>> I always feel that the readers's interpretation is more important than
>> that
>> of the author, at least in the short-term.
>>
> I think in the LOTR are all the basics of the why of environmental
> friendliness
>
>> The most practical advice I ever heard on such was to do small things.
>> Most
>> people do nothing, so even small things are appreciated, and if enough
>> people do enough small things then eventually big things occur. For
>> example,
>> buy paper products only from companies that purchase from logging
>> companies
>> that only cull thourgs sustainable forestry methods. I am not trying to
>> shill for this company, but they do practice the method with their
>> logging
>> suppliers, and it gives decent explanations of what it is:
>>
>>
>> http://www.internationalpaper.com/OurCompany/Environment/Env ironmentalStewardship.html#What%20is%20Sustainable%20Forestr yI
>> like Greenpeace and Sierra, and Earth First, etc., except that they
>> havebecome too self-important and involved with other matters that have
>> nothingto do with the environment, to really do alot of good. More good
>> come from aknowledgeable person, passing it on to others.
>
> Small things, yes. Still I would have been happy when the government of
> the USA had consented to sign the Kyoto Treaty and would stop the
> denial of Global Warming.
>
> Henriette
Unfortunately, for all its good intent, even had the US signed Kyoto, it is
a worthless thing. As for global warming, the best evidence I have seen that
it is occuring is the thinkness of the Antarctic icecap at the pole, which
is about 20 feet thicker than in 1970. How is this possible with global
warming? Because normally it was too cold for snow most of the year, at the
southern pole. As it is now warmer, it snows more often, causing larger
accumulating deposits.
As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe it
is happening, but major disagreements as to why. For those that say it is
man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times more
greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
The best hypothesis I have heard on the subject involves two things: the
number of people currently living, and the amount of forest in the world.
The amount of forest in the world is virtually the same as when Teddy
Roosevelt was in office (don't dispute it, as it is true. We can talk about
biological diversity some other time, which is the major issue with that
amount of forest). 5 times as many people, surviving on the same amount of
oxygen. Take everything to its logical conclusion. The issue isn't the types
of technology we use (although certainly not helpful, in the big picture it
really isn't much) but rather the overall number of people currently living.
What can we do about that?
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #295419 ] |
Mo, 03 Juli 2006 23:54 |
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On 2006-07-03, BaJoRi <bajori [at] cbg.com> wrote in
<0_fqg.25929$ec2.23825 [at] fe12.news.easynews.com>:
[snip]
>
> As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe it
> is happening, but major disagreements as to why. For those that say it is
> man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times more
> greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
>
That is a good point. It seems to me that we haven't been studying
climate change and its causes nearly long enough to know what is
happening or why. At any rate, there are more than enough good reasons to
eliminate pollution without adding global warming. Developing nations
are so anxious for new business but at what cost? Think of the benzene
pollution in the water supply of Harbin, China. "To get rich is
glorious," this is true, but will you be there to enjoy it?
--
Huan, the hound of Valinor
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #295421 ] |
Di, 04 Juli 2006 01:47 |
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"Huan the hound" <huanthehound [at] netscape.net> wrote in message
news:Zlgqg.52$ek3.0 [at] fe02.lga...
> On 2006-07-03, BaJoRi <bajori [at] cbg.com> wrote in
> <0_fqg.25929$ec2.23825 [at] fe12.news.easynews.com>:
>
> [snip]
>>
>> As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe
>> it
>> is happening, but major disagreements as to why. For those that say it is
>> man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times
>> more
>> greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
>>
> That is a good point. It seems to me that we haven't been studying
> climate change and its causes nearly long enough to know what is
> happening or why. At any rate, there are more than enough good reasons to
> eliminate pollution without adding global warming. Developing nations
> are so anxious for new business but at what cost? Think of the benzene
> pollution in the water supply of Harbin, China. "To get rich is
> glorious," this is true, but will you be there to enjoy it?
>
> --
If you want to see one of the most terrible cultural crimes ever check out
the documentary on TLC about the Three Gorges Dam. Literally thousands of
archaelogical sites were inundated with water. Temples more than a thousand
years old were lost. Just atrocious.
> Huan, the hound of Valinor
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #295426 ] |
Di, 04 Juli 2006 02:18 |
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Wes =F0u Henriette hal!
>=20
> Small things, yes. Still I would have been happy when the government of
> the USA had consented to sign the Kyoto Treaty and would stop the
> denial of Global Warming.
I would also be happy if the EU-15 actually started talking less and=20
doing more about emissions. They have actually risen for two years in=20
a row now. And if countries like my own started taking the issue=20
seriously.
And that doesn't even take into account the so-called globalisation=20
emissions - that is to say, the emissions in China and elsewhere which=20
are solely attributable to production for Europe and the US (for=20
example, emissions by factories producing goods for export). One=20
preliminary study suggested that as much as 14% of Chinese emissions=20
might fall into this category. It makes something of a mockery of the=20
West's much-touted reductions if all that's happening is that their=20
production is being shifted to China.
--=20
Arvind
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #295431 ] |
Di, 04 Juli 2006 04:44 |
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Quoth Troels Forchhammer <Troels [at] ThisIsFake.invalid> in article
<Xns97F4B89B68FB4T.Forch [at] 147.243.37.18>:
> Morgoth's Curse <morgothscurse2002 [at] nospam.yahoo.com> [said]:
> > <Troels [at] ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:
> >> Alderman -- if necessary 'Alderman of Words'
> > Ehhh. That term sounds more "political" than "medieval."
> Sure you don't think of an ombudsman?
No, no... if you'd ever lived in Chicago, the term "alderman" would
sound painfully political to you, too. :) Here, members of the City
Council are called "aldermen", each representing a particular "ward"
in the city. With few exceptions (including my own alderman,
happily), "alderman" in Chicago also seems to mean "lacky to Mayor
Daley". Chicago politics ain't pretty.
Steuard Jensen
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #295432 ] |
Di, 04 Juli 2006 05:08 |
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Quoth Morgoth's Curse <morgothscurse2002 [at] nospam.yahoo.com> in article
<smaha21jc746pkr6kjkov904a6o93tog5b [at] 4ax.com>:
> (Steuard Jensen) wrote:
> >Quoth Morgoth's Curse <morgothscurse2002 [at] nospam.yahoo.com>:
> I am just distressed that you were not able to participate in the
> COTW discussions. :-\
So am I. Those were presumably awesome, and now they're just about
finished.
> >Why thank you. :)
> You earned it. Your FAQ is, beyond question, the best of any
> newsgroup in the Usenet. :-)
That might be going a /little/ far. :) But many thanks for the
compliment nonetheless.
> > Second, I start a job next fall as a professor in Claremont,
> > California
> Congratulations! ;-) By the way, whatever happened to that job in
> Europe that you were considering?
I looked into a few European possibilities, but none of them ended up
working out in the end. In any case, I'm quite pleased with how
things have ended up.
> >And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition
> >called a "giant cell tumor" in the bone above my right knee.
> It's an amazing coincidence, but I have the exact same problem above
> my right knee.
Seriously? That's pretty incredible; the websites I've seen indicated
that these things only hit roughly one in a million people. I guess
the Tolkien newsgroups are just full of awfully unique individuals. :)
If you're at all interested in sharing details, I'd love to hear them
(either here or over email).. How big is your tumor? How long have
you been aware that something was going on? What are your symptoms?
How was it finally diagnosed? :)
(And in the interests of fair disclosure, my answers are: 1) Roughly
6.5 cm by 4.5 cm: on the large end. 2) A bit over six months. 3)
Tenderness to the touch at a particular point on the side of the knee
as well as pain during a variety of everyday uses including walking,
as well as swelling that wasn't bad at first but that increased over
time. 4) X-rays and some very vivid pictures on an MRI a few weeks
ago.)
> I am not as lucky as you, however. When I asked my doctor to remove
> it, all I got was a lecture on the evils of unnecessary surgery.
> :-\
That really surprises me. My understanding was that these things are
quite aggressive when compared to other benign tumors. Left
unchecked, I believe that mine would just keep growing and eventually
eat away enough of my thigh bone to weaken it and cause a major
fracture (I already showed signs of a small fracture starting on my
X-ray). And of course, the earlier you find it and remove it, the
better your odds of not having nasty complications later.
But I'm obviously not a doctor, so perhaps there are more variations
on the "giant cell tumor" theme than I've learned about. (Mine is a
"giant cell tumor of the bone", in particular; is yours also in the
bone, or is it in soft tissue? That could be the difference...) In
any case, my best wishes to you, too. If the thing starts to cause
you pain or impact your lift, I'd probably look for a second opinion.
(I'm awfully lucky to work right next to the University of Chicago
Hospitals, I know!)
> You can certain that we all wish you a speedy recovery!!! :-)
Many thanks.
Steuard Jensen
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #295434 ] |
Di, 04 Juli 2006 09:25 |
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In message <news:4Ckqg.1$45.309 [at] news.uchicago.edu>
sbjensen [at] midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) enriched us with:
>
<snip>
> No, no... if you'd ever lived in Chicago, the term "alderman"
> would sound painfully political to you, too. :) Here, members of
> the City Council are called "aldermen", each representing a
> particular "ward" in the city.
That's abuse of a perfectly innocent word, that is ;)
Of course, calling them Wardens would have created a problem here in
relation to both the Fairbairns and poor Háma.
The Danish 'Oldermand' is, AFAIK, only used for the leader of a
guild of master craftsmen or for the chairman of a village 'thing'
(the assembly of the village households). Of course not completely
without political connotations, but certainly not in the modern
sense of 'career politics' (which is, I think, also the sense
Tolkien intended when he wrote that 'Denethor /was/ tainted with
mere politics').
Of course 'Alderman' means basically the same as 'Elder' (where the
gender is implicit -- it /is/ a term of respect, after all <EG>),
which sounds, to me, strongly religious.
> With few exceptions (including my own alderman, happily),
> "alderman" in Chicago also seems to mean "lacky to Mayor Daley".
> Chicago politics ain't pretty.
Hah! That just goes to show that you're not any different from the
rest of us . . . ;) Eh . . .? Was it you or us Europeans who where
supposed to be arrogant -- I can't quite remember? (I really have
to try harder to get these things right. One has, I'm sure,
prejudices to live up to).
</sarcasm>
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <t.forch(a)email.dk>
And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left
the path of wisdom.
- Gandalf, /The Fellowship of the Ring/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #295437 ] |
Di, 04 Juli 2006 13:40 |
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BaJoRi wrote:
>
> As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe it
> is happening, but major disagreements as to why.
Not among scientists. The reason is that there is no objective
objection, merely philosophical and emotional ones - there are a great
many people in denial.
> For those that say it is
> man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times more
> greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
>
What a pity that once again you fail basic research 101 -
http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html
In other words - it's closer to the opposite - humans the biggest
contributor of greenhouse gases (taking into account uncertainty
factors).
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #295441 ] |
Di, 04 Juli 2006 18:35 |
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"Sam's the little guy" <samdekat [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152013217.154105.95790 [at] j8g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> BaJoRi wrote:
>>
>> As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe
>> it
>> is happening, but major disagreements as to why.
>
> Not among scientists. The reason is that there is no objective
> objection, merely philosophical and emotional ones - there are a great
> many people in denial.
>
>
>> For those that say it is
>> man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times
>> more
>> greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
>>
>
> What a pity that once again you fail basic research 101 -
> http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html
>
> In other words - it's closer to the opposite - humans the biggest
> contributor of greenhouse gases (taking into account uncertainty
> factors).
>
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/cause.htm
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/carbon.htm
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
Once again, in some inane attempt to try and best me (though it never seems
to work, except to dullards like yourself) you eschew scientific fact for
what has been spoon-fed to you by Al Gore and those who would use
environmental causes for political purposes, and not base everything on pure
science. The number contributed by Humans annually is about 3.4% (not an
insignificant number, true. But small in the big scheme of things) Enjoy the
links, MAYBE you will learn something (but knowing you, I doubt it).
By the way, just to give you a teaser, in the number you quoted against
volcanoes, they are including the amount of gases produced by cows, because
man eats cows. Therefore, man should be blamed for farting cows. Another
brilliant piece of logic you follow.
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #296357 ] |
Di, 04 Juli 2006 22:40 |
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Henriette wrote:
> Christopher Kreuzer schreef:
> >
> > Though I do sometimes wonder about the various handles that, um, post
> > 'humorous' material (eg. phone FATS, some of which I do find funny).
> > Surely there can't be that many people that can come up with weird stuff
> > like that! LOL!
>
> Phone FATS, what is that? But you are probably referring to Count
> Menelvagor and his many sub-personalities;-) I think it is extremely
> funny when they quarrel and somehow always end up trying to get you to
> make a donation or to enter your credit card number;-)
we strenuously deny it. what's your social security number?
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #296366 ] |
Di, 04 Juli 2006 22:05 |
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"Morgoth's Curse" <morgothscurse2002 [at] nospam.yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:fpr2a25ma65bn973akuu5kirid4dfn8h4d [at] 4ax.com...
> It was a mighty duel in strange Scandinavian tongues, but
> ultimately Ojevind Lang prevailed over his arch-rival Raven to retain
> his title of BARBARIAN KING. Congratulations, Ojevind! (I should
> advise you to be vigilant, however, as I do not doubt that even now
> Raven is sharpening his command of Scandinavian languages as well as
> his axes with the intent of seizing your crown.)
I never wanted to be a barbarian *king*. Barbarian suffices for me. And
if the King tries to command me så knuller jeg enken hans ganske blidt og
nennsomt.
BTW, if command of Scand is what makes a Barbarian King, then there is
another contestant. But he is so mild-mannered that I don't think he
qualifies for *barbarian* king. He be king, I barbarian and Öje be both.
> On the other hand, as Steuard himself has admitted, he has
> effectively abandoned AFT to off-topic political posts in favor of the
> more reserved RABT. Bad Steward!
It could be worse. Far worse. He has downshunted his involvement here
in favour of scientific pursuit. Had he done so in favour of joining
pollerticks (ie. a career ultimately of telling people what to do - a
necessary task in a complex society such as ours, but let's have an eye on
them pollertishuns) or otherwise crossing the species barrier from Homo
Sapiens to Homo Loquens or Homo Clamans, then he would truly deserve his
> < SPANK >
> Russ has been absent from the Tolkien newsgroups far too
> frequently and for far too much time. He is stripped of his title,
> demoted to the rank of MAN-AT-ARMS and sentenced to be flogged for his
> insolence. The title CAPTAIN OF THE GUARDS now passes to Raven.
> Congratulations, Raven! :-) As a reward for your steady
> participation and intriguing posts of the past year, you may choose
> how many lashes Russ shall receive.
None. If he is to receive punishment, it shall be to translate the Latin
word "cunnus" into English on the blackboard. He, together with Flame, some
time ago voiced a very strong dislike for the English word when I used it.
> The miserable wretch known as Meneldil/TT Arvind has committed
> the unpardonable sin of failing to post the Top 10 lists. He is
> stripped of his title and a curse is placed upon him. Henceforth, he
> shall be tormented by an irresistible urge to study obscure ancient
> Polynesian languages.
To the Sky-Friend, is this punishment? Only if he has the urge and
cannot.
> The late and irreplaceable Softrat has been posthumously awarded
> the title of the official OGRE of AFT/RABT. I am sure that he would
> have been pleased or, at the least, would have had a wittily sarcastic
> comment. You will always be missed, Softie! :-(
Indeed irreplaceable. Anyone who makes the attempt is quite punishable.
Eware.
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #296379 ] |
Mi, 05 Juli 2006 09:15 |
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BaJoRi <bajori [at] cbg.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Therefore, man should be blamed for farting cows.
Of course they should.
> Another brilliant piece of logic you follow.
I was more interested in the difference between the sites you both
quotes (neither of which I have visited). But from the names it can be
seen that one is an educational establishment - at a guess, University
of North D<something> - and one is a popular science website:
junkscience.com
So, at face value, I would investigate further to see what is causing
the discrepancy you point out.
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #296388 ] |
Mi, 05 Juli 2006 15:11 |
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Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> BaJoRi <bajori [at] cbg.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > Therefore, man should be blamed for farting cows.
>
> Of course they should.
>
> > Another brilliant piece of logic you follow.
>
> I was more interested in the difference between the sites you both
> quotes (neither of which I have visited). But from the names it can be
> seen that one is an educational establishment - at a guess, University
> of North D<something> - and one is a popular science website:
> junkscience.com
>
Also of interest is other commentary on that particular site
http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm
and its owner and operator Steven Milloy. Who is Steven Milloy?
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy
http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/bus iness/pt_junkscience.html
http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy
<quoth>
"though he claims to trumpet "sound science," he has savagely attacked
the world's most prestigious scientific journals including Science,
Nature, the Lancet, and the New England Journal of Medicine. His
chutzpah recently reached new lows with the posting (removed after
complaints) of an "Obituary of the Day" that gloated over the death of
former NIH environmental scientist David Rall, who was killed in a car
crash."
</quoth>
Here is an article by climatologists cutting a swathe through the
Milloys assertions (which, as we see above, are made on behalf of and
sponsored by industry)
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=22
Moral of the story - don't just post the top link from a search in
Google.
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #296389 ] |
Mi, 05 Juli 2006 15:45 |
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"Sam's the little guy" <samdekat [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152105119.612201.91800 [at] m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
>> BaJoRi <bajori [at] cbg.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> > Therefore, man should be blamed for farting cows.
>>
>> Of course they should.
>>
>> > Another brilliant piece of logic you follow.
>>
>> I was more interested in the difference between the sites you both
>> quotes (neither of which I have visited). But from the names it can be
>> seen that one is an educational establishment - at a guess, University
>> of North D<something> - and one is a popular science website:
>> junkscience.com
>>
>
> Also of interest is other commentary on that particular site
>
> http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm
>
>
> and its owner and operator Steven Milloy. Who is Steven Milloy?
>
> http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy
> http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/bus iness/pt_junkscience.html
> http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy
Here is where things go: you, as normal, stick with Dogma and what is spoon
fed to you by the media, and those whom you choose to ass-kiss (because it
is much easier than thinking for yourself). I mean, really, heaven forbod
that there are people out there who acvtually disagree with Al Gore. Did you
actually read what was written? Could you understand it? I will put my two
decades of envornmental activism againsst your sheep-like bealting any day.
>
> <quoth>
> "though he claims to trumpet "sound science," he has savagely attacked
> the world's most prestigious scientific journals including Science,
> Nature, the Lancet, and the New England Journal of Medicine. His
> chutzpah recently reached new lows with the posting (removed after
> complaints) of an "Obituary of the Day" that gloated over the death of
> former NIH environmental scientist David Rall, who was killed in a car
> crash."
> </quoth>
>
> Here is an article by climatologists cutting a swathe through the
> Milloys assertions (which, as we see above, are made on behalf of and
> sponsored by industry)
>
> http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=22
>
> Moral of the story - don't just post the top link from a search in
> Google.
>
The herd is leaving...you may want to catch up.
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #296390 ] |
Mi, 05 Juli 2006 17:36 |
|
BaJoRi schreef:
> Unfortunately, for all its good intent, even had the US signed Kyoto, it is
> a worthless thing.
Here I must disagree. It would have been wonderful when the world's
greatest polluter had done more than just symbolically sign a Treaty a
department of the UN had come up with after thorough investigations.
> As for global warming, the best evidence I have seen that
> it is occuring is the thinkness of the Antarctic icecap at the pole, which
> is about 20 feet thicker than in 1970. How is this possible with global
> warming? Because normally it was too cold for snow most of the year, at the
> southern pole. As it is now warmer, it snows more often, causing larger
> accumulating deposits.
>
> As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe it
> is happening,
That is only since relatively recent. (a few years. I still own many
articles as late as from 2004 relating to Global Warming in terms of
fraud.)
> but major disagreements as to why. For those that say it is
> man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times more
> greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
I've also read in an article from the English Telegraph it is because
the Sun is shining more brightly than it has at any time during the
last 1000 years. (No joke).
Well, probably it depends whom you wish to believe. I believe them:
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/Fingerprints.ht ml
>
> The best hypothesis I have heard on the subject involves two things: the
> number of people currently living, and the amount of forest in the world.
> The amount of forest in the world is virtually the same as when Teddy
> Roosevelt was in office (don't dispute it
That is a dangerous remark in a newsgroup.
>, as it is true. We can talk about
> biological diversity some other time, which is the major issue with that
> amount of forest). 5 times as many people, surviving on the same amount of
> oxygen. Take everything to its logical conclusion. The issue isn't the types
> of technology we use (although certainly not helpful, in the big picture it
> really isn't much) but rather the overall number of people currently living.
> What can we do about that?
I seriously doubt that too. It is not amount of people that live, it is
the way in which they choose to live.
Henriette
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #296392 ] |
Mi, 05 Juli 2006 18:00 |
|
TT Arvind wrote:
> I would also be happy if the EU-15 actually started talking less and
> doing more about emissions. They have actually risen for two years in
> a row now.
Very true, but paying lip-service, signing the Treaty and setting out a
time-line is a tiny start.
> And if countries like my own started taking the issue
> seriously.
>
> And that doesn't even take into account the so-called globalisation
> emissions - (snip explanation).
Well indeed, we sort of 'tend to forget' about these.
Iniyarutti
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #296393 ] |
Mi, 05 Juli 2006 18:12 |
|
"Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152113808.062380.184190 [at] m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> BaJoRi schreef:
>
>> Unfortunately, for all its good intent, even had the US signed Kyoto, it
>> is
>> a worthless thing.
>
> Here I must disagree. It would have been wonderful when the world's
> greatest polluter had done more than just symbolically sign a Treaty a
> department of the UN had come up with after thorough investigations.
Well, for once Sam made an astute observation (or was it someone else? I
would never believe that Sam could say anything intelligent, yet I am faced
with that possibility), India and China are much more inviolved with
pollutant creation activity, and will double pollutants annually for the
next few years, projected. ANy gains that might be realized by Kyoto, and I
truly belioeve that there wouldn't be any such benefit, would be immediately
offset by China and India, and in fact there will be even more pollutants in
the atmosphere, due to those countries.
>
>> As for global warming, the best evidence I have seen that
>> it is occuring is the thinkness of the Antarctic icecap at the pole,
>> which
>> is about 20 feet thicker than in 1970. How is this possible with global
>> warming? Because normally it was too cold for snow most of the year, at
>> the
>> southern pole. As it is now warmer, it snows more often, causing larger
>> accumulating deposits.
>>
>> As for why it is happening, you won't find many people that don't believe
>> it
>> is happening,
>
> That is only since relatively recent. (a few years. I still own many
> articles as late as from 2004 relating to Global Warming in terms of
> fraud.)
>
>> but major disagreements as to why. For those that say it is
>> man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times
>> more
>> greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY.
>
> I've also read in an article from the English Telegraph it is because
> the Sun is shining more brightly than it has at any time during the
> last 1000 years. (No joke).
Close. The actual scientific explanation is that there is more sunspot
activity,, and the outside edges of a sunspot are much hotter than the
surrounding sun surface, which gets translated to a little more heat
generation towards the earth. sort of like the flame of a match: the hottest
temperature does not come from the flame, but from that flames corona. They
also did a correlation of sunspot activity versus temperature over the past
50 years, and there does seem to be a lsight elevation in temp when there is
more activity, and lower temps when there is less (such as the beginnings of
the seventies, when global cooling was touted as a major concern).
>
> Well, probably it depends whom you wish to believe. I believe them:
>
> http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/Fingerprints.ht ml
>>
>> The best hypothesis I have heard on the subject involves two things: the
>> number of people currently living, and the amount of forest in the world.
>> The amount of forest in the world is virtually the same as when Teddy
>> Roosevelt was in office (don't dispute it
>
> That is a dangerous remark in a newsgroup.
But it is s true statement. The issue is bio-diversity. For example, I am a
strip-mining company. I mine 10,000 acres worth, and by law must pay for the
re-planting of trees (twice as many trees as I clear, by the way - sounds
great, until you read the rest of this paragraph) and such BEFORE I start
mining. So, I strip out huge swaths of oak, and cherry, and maple, etc. I
then plant Douglas Fir. Everywhere. Nothing else. Why? Douglas Firs are
quick growing, cheap, easy to grow and farmk, and then they hope to cull
those trees later, to sell for paper production. Loss of bio-diversity, and
is one of the most pressing issues today, though no one knows it in the
general public.
And by the way, during his presidency, half of the areas set aside as
national forest by Teddy were already deforested, and have only grown back
in the past 50 years.
>
>>, as it is true. We can talk about
>> biological diversity some other time, which is the major issue with that
>> amount of forest). 5 times as many people, surviving on the same amount
>> of
>> oxygen. Take everything to its logical conclusion. The issue isn't the
>> types
>> of technology we use (although certainly not helpful, in the big picture
>> it
>> really isn't much) but rather the overall number of people currently
>> living.
>> What can we do about that?
>
> I seriously doubt that too. It is not amount of people that live, it is
> the way in which they choose to live.
The total amount of greenhouse gases produced by human technology is only
3.4% of the total produced every year. Not as much as those who are
politically motivated would have you believe. It isn't an insignificant
number by any stretch (but hardly enough to cause the current global
warming), but as far as human pollution goes there are so many more things
that humanity could work on easily enough (lead and mercury come most
quickly to mind) that we can control much more easily than the entirety of
greenhouse emissions.
>
> Henriette
>
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #296394 ] |
Mi, 05 Juli 2006 18:24 |
|
Henriette wrote:
> TT Arvind wrote:
>
>> I would also be happy if the EU-15 actually started talking less and
>> doing more about emissions. They have actually risen for two years in
>> a row now.
Only two? Canada's increases in emissions haven't even started slowing down
since we signed Kyoto.
>
> Very true, but paying lip-service, signing the Treaty and setting out a
> time-line is a tiny start.
>
>> And if countries like my own started taking the issue
>> seriously.
>>
If only...
--
derek
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #296413 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 00:52 |
|
Wes =F0u Raven hal!
> I never wanted to be a barbarian *king*. Barbarian suffices for me. =
And
> if the King tries to command me s=E5 knuller jeg enken hans ganske blidt =
og
> nennsomt.
Erk. Veldig... h=F8visk.
--=20
Arnvid
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298062 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 12:45 |
|
BaJoRi wrote:
> "Sam's the little guy" <samdekat [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > Also of interest is other commentary on that particular site
> >
> > http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm
> >
> >
> > and its owner and operator Steven Milloy. Who is Steven Milloy?
> >
> > http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy
> > http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/bus iness/pt_junkscience.html
> > http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy
>
> Here is where things go: you, as normal, stick with Dogma and what is spoon
> fed to you by the media
- Ironic, given that you posted from a website run by an oil company
shill and correspondent for FOX news.
> and those whom you choose to ass-kiss (because it
> is much easier than thinking for yourself). I mean, really, heaven forbod
> that there are people out there who acvtually disagree with Al Gore.
> Did you
> actually read what was written? Could you understand it?
I understood it for what it was - advertising for Exxon Mobil. Let's
review the status of this discussion:
You asserted:
"For those that say it is
man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times
more
greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY. "
I posted the ACTUAL volume of geenhouse gases from anthropogenic
causes, veruss volcanoes:
CO2
"Gerlach (1991) estimated a total global release of 3-4 x 10E12 mol/yr
from volcanoes. This is a conservative estimate. Man-made
(anthropogenic) CO2 emissions overwhelm this estimate by at least 150
times."
Gasesous forms of Sulfur
"Volcanoes and other natural processes release approximately 24 Tg of
sulfur to the atmosphere each year. Thus, volcanoes are responsible for
43% of the total natural S flux each year. Man's activities add about
79 Tg sulfur to the atmosphere each year. In an average year, volcanoes
release only 13% of the sulfur added to the atmosphere compared to
anthropogenic sources. "
[http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/Gases/man.html ]
You posted:
Irrelevant commentary from a FOX news presenter who is is the payroll
of Exxon Mobil.
http://www.prwatch.org/node/4405
Note that in the three pages you quoted,
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/cause.htm
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/carbon.htm
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
No mention is made of volcanic activity outperforming modern
anthropogenic activity in greenhouse gas production. I guess you're on
your own.
> I will put my two
> decades of envornmental activism againsst your sheep-like bealting any day.
>
>
Right. You want to counter the weight of scientific evidence with
assertions about how trustworthy and knowledgeable you are. Might I
point out the obvious: you expressed confidence in the notion that
Nelson Mandela was a murderer - you were comprehensively proven wrong:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/5ac5e65e7 7022847
You were also confident that the massacre at Deir Yassin was an Isreali
conspiracy: you were comprehensively proven wrong:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/8f5213464 f370f84
You were confident that I participated in a discussion about Mohammads
sexual practices - you were comprehensively proven wrong:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.tolkien/msg/4985c5074 8fd9c9d
So, in conclusion, relying on your reputation might not be the way to
go - meanign you have to answer specifically: what PROOF can you
provide for your assertion:
"For those that say it is
man-made, there is much proof that volcanic activity causes 100 times
more
greenhouse gases per year than humanity's TECHNOLOGY. "
We're waiting.
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298064 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 15:08 |
|
"Sam's the little guy" <samdekat [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1152182742.359298.176580 [at] m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> BaJoRi wrote:
>> "Sam's the little guy" <samdekat [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > Also of interest is other commentary on that particular site
>> >
>> > http://www.info-pollution.com/milloy.htm
>> >
>> >
>> > and its owner and operator Steven Milloy. Who is Steven Milloy?
>> >
>> > http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_Milloy
>> > http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2005/may/bus iness/pt_junkscience.html
>> > http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q4/avery.html#milloy
>>
>> Here is where things go: you, as normal, stick with Dogma and what is
>> spoon
>> fed to you by the media
>
> - Ironic, given that you posted from a website run by an oil company
> shill and correspondent for FOX news.
<SIGH> I just love how you have to indulge in a herd mentality, cause it
makes you feel special. Here's the deal: you keep pretending you know of
what you speak, and I will keep laughing at you.
Here are a couple facts for you:
Farting cows is not man-made.
Hybrid cars are not good for the planet, as currently processed in their
life cycles.
Only 3.4% of so-called greenhouse gases are generated by mans technology.
Live with it. Deny it. Accept it. I don't care.I have had enough of you
denying reality in thread after thread. If you want to start actually being
educated about the subject, go to Google and research the effect of mans
POPULATION (the cat of so many people breathing), not technology, on the
atmposphere.
By the way, I notice you provide links attacking the man, not his science.
Very interesting, but typical of you.
Here are a few more names for you to research their views on man's
contribution to greenhouse gas emissions, and let's see if you have the
decency to actually learn of what you speak:
Laboratory of Climatology in Arizona
Richard Lindzen, a leading authority on atmospheric change from M.I.T.
Fred Singer, the first Director of the U.S. Satellite Program, which
measures atmospheric change.
By the way, want another falsehood to chew on? Man-made CFC's are not the
cause of the ozone hole, and have no effect on it. And before you sputter
otherwise, CFC's are twice as heavy as normal air, and could never reach 30
miles into the atmosphere from a car airconditioner that sputters out. Face
it: most of what you know about atmospheric change is wrong. When you can
come back to me with how CFC's do cause the ozone hole, and man's actual
involvement in such, and not spout the normal dogma bullshit on the subject,
only THEN will you be worth any more of my time on ANY part of the subject
of climate change.
Bonus question: which chemical manufacturer of r134a (a patented chemical,
where Freon no longer was; any idea what that can do for a company's bottom
line) is the originator, and main financial backer, of the movement to ban
Freon, under the guise that it was to protect the ozone layer?
I completely doubt any response from you other than the same tired dogmatic
rubbish in which you always seem to indulge, no matter the subject. So knock
yourself out, believe you are conscientious because you are convinced of
your own superiority (not out of any fact of such, just because you are too
arrogant to question anything that is spoon-fed you by the media), and pat
yourself on the back. Enjoy.
And that is all for me on this subject.
|
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298066 ] |
Do, 06 Juli 2006 15:58 |
|
BaJoRi wrote:
<snip irrelevant guff>
You seem to have drifted off topic again - compelling me to remind you
of what the topic is - you asserted the following:
" For those that say it is man-made, there is much proof that volcanic
activity causes 100 times more greenhouse gases per year than
humanity's TECHNOLOGY."
If there is much proof on the matter, where is your proof?
Defend your assertion.
If you now realise (as you should) that this assertion is as farcical
as the other myths put forward by the increasing desperate, diminishing
club of climate change deniers, you should admit that it and you are
wrong. Having settled the matter, we may then engage in a more broad
ranging discussion on the anthropogenic causes of climate change.
Failure to address the topic at hand (via silence or avoidance of the
topic) will be solid evidence that you already know that you are proven
to be wrong.
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298074 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 06:29 |
|
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:09:17 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon [at] zonnet.nl> wrote:
>Morgoth's Curse wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:53:33 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon [at] zonnet.nl>
>> wrote:
>>> T, Massster.
>> Incidentally, I cannot grant your request to be the "mad
>> scientist" of AFT/RABT, but how do you feel about the title of
>> ALCHEMIST? I presume that you have a collection of beakers,
>> cauldrons and other tools of the trade that you can use to
>> concoct unholy substances while you cackle evilly? ;-)
>
>Of course, of course I do. Hm. I could go with that, I guess, but...
>why can't I be Mad Scientist, again?
There no mad scientists in fantasy--unless an alchemist is considered
a scientist. As best as I can determine, modern opinion on this point
is mixed. Some consider alchemists to be the forerunner of modern
scientists--they are fond of pointing out that Isaac Newton was deeply
interested in alchemy--while others consider them hucksters who knew
how to fleece a king. The fact that Tolkien specifically mentions
alchemists in LOTR is another reason why the title is much more
appropriate than "Mad Scientist."
Morgoth's Curse
|
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298075 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 06:29 |
|
On 3 Jul 2006 07:05:10 -0700, "Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com>
wrote:
>> The Club's magazine "Sierra" does offer some practical advice, but I
>> am seeking a forum where I can ask specific questions about recycling
>> and other issues. Unfortunately, I have not yet found such a forum.
>>
>Maybe you can ask your specific questions here, maybe someone will
>know?
Anybody know how to recycle Styrofoam? :-) It's easy to deliver
Styrofoam peanuts to the local Fed Ex outlet for reuse, but it is
almost impossible to recycle the Styrofoam blocks that are included
with every electronic device whether it be a computer or a DVD player.
I hate the thought of just throwing it away, but I do not have any use
for it myself and do not have much storage space in my garage.
>> I removed alt.org.sierra-club from my newsreader, but retained
>> alt.forestry primarily because those grumpy old loggers occasionally
>> post fascinating links about trees. :-)
>>
>'grumpy old loggers', LOL. But oh, the huge ancient trees I saw in
>California, where it took a *while* to walk around one! Redwoods, I
>think they were called, but they were cut down incessantly and
>ruthlessly. I think someone in the LOTR would have to say a word or two
>about that.
Indeed. I wish we had a thousand ents to storm the corporate
headquarters of some of these logging companies. There is something
fundamentally wrong with a person who can look at a redwood tree and
see only lumber. :-\
Morgoth's Curse
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298077 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 06:30 |
|
On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 03:08:44 GMT, sbjensen [at] midway.uchicago.edu
(Steuard Jensen) wrote:
>> I am just distressed that you were not able to participate in the
>> COTW discussions. :-\
>
>So am I. Those were presumably awesome, and now they're just about
>finished.
Not hardly. ;-) See my post "The Thread That Runs So True: Google,
the Usenet and Ancient Threads."
>
>> >Why thank you. :)
>
>> You earned it. Your FAQ is, beyond question, the best of any
>> newsgroup in the Usenet. :-)
>
>That might be going a /little/ far. :) But many thanks for the
>compliment nonetheless.
>
>> > Second, I start a job next fall as a professor in Claremont,
>> > California
>
>> Congratulations! ;-) By the way, whatever happened to that job in
>> Europe that you were considering?
>
>I looked into a few European possibilities, but none of them ended up
>working out in the end. In any case, I'm quite pleased with how
>things have ended up.
I confess that I do not know anything about academic world of physics.
Does Claremont have an enviable reputation in the international
physics community? If not, it will soon after you arrive. ;-) <grin>
>> >And finally, I seem to be facing a frustrating medical condition
>> >called a "giant cell tumor" in the bone above my right knee.
>
>> It's an amazing coincidence, but I have the exact same problem above
>> my right knee.
>
>Seriously? That's pretty incredible; the websites I've seen indicated
>that these things only hit roughly one in a million people. I guess
>the Tolkien newsgroups are just full of awfully unique individuals. :)
>
>If you're at all interested in sharing details, I'd love to hear them
>(either here or over email).. How big is your tumor? How long have
>you been aware that something was going on? What are your symptoms?
>How was it finally diagnosed? :)
>(And in the interests of fair disclosure, my answers are: 1) Roughly
>6.5 cm by 4.5 cm: on the large end. 2) A bit over six months. 3)
>Tenderness to the touch at a particular point on the side of the knee
>as well as pain during a variety of everyday uses including walking,
>as well as swelling that wasn't bad at first but that increased over
>time. 4) X-rays and some very vivid pictures on an MRI a few weeks
>ago.)
>
>> I am not as lucky as you, however. When I asked my doctor to remove
>> it, all I got was a lecture on the evils of unnecessary surgery.
>> :-\
>
>That really surprises me. My understanding was that these things are
>quite aggressive when compared to other benign tumors. Left
>unchecked, I believe that mine would just keep growing and eventually
>eat away enough of my thigh bone to weaken it and cause a major
>fracture (I already showed signs of a small fracture starting on my
>X-ray). And of course, the earlier you find it and remove it, the
>better your odds of not having nasty complications later.
>
>But I'm obviously not a doctor, so perhaps there are more variations
>on the "giant cell tumor" theme than I've learned about. (Mine is a
>"giant cell tumor of the bone", in particular; is yours also in the
>bone, or is it in soft tissue? That could be the difference...) In
>any case, my best wishes to you, too. If the thing starts to cause
>you pain or impact your lift, I'd probably look for a second opinion.
>(I'm awfully lucky to work right next to the University of Chicago
>Hospitals, I know!)
I was fifteen years old when I first noticed an unsightly lump an inch
or so above the kneecap. It was not painful or growing quickly, but
we consulted a doctor anyway. He concluded that the tumor was causing
the bone in my leg to grow out abnormally. He did not believe that it
would become much larger since I was near the age when bones cease
growing. He informed me that surgery was unnecessary as the tumor was
benign and the abnormal bone growth did not affect my ability to walk
or run. [It did supply yet another reason to avoid showering with the
seniors after gym class, however. ;-)] When I demanded that he remove
it anyway, he claimed that the surgery would cost at least $7,000. My
father did not have that kind of money (though he certainly would have
borrowed it if the tumor had been malignant, of course) and so I
learned to live with it. That was twenty years ago and I presume that
the surgery would cost at least ten times as much today. You know
what they say about American medicine: You won't die, but you'll
certainly wish you had after get the bill. :-\ Medicine has changed
quite a bit during the past twenty years, of course, and I have been
wondering if any of the new treatments could eliminate it without the
necessity of surgery.
CAT scans and MRIs were not available in our area at that time, of
course, so it is entirely possible that we have different types of
tumors.
>> You can certain that we all wish you a speedy recovery!!! :-)
>
>Many thanks.
Good luck! Be sure to wear your cast on your first day at work so
that you can explain to your boss that a thesis review in Chicago is
_really_ tough! ;-)
Morgoth's Curse
|
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298078 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 06:40 |
|
Morgoth's Curse wrote:
> The fact that Tolkien specifically mentions alchemists
> in LOTR is another reason why the title is much more appropriate than "Mad
> Scientist."
Refresh my memory, please - where does Alchemy appear?
I thought all magic was sympathetic, except for a couple incidences
of "blasting fire" which of course correspond to either primitive
gunpowder (Saruman) or Greek Fire (Sauron).
--
Phlip
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298084 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 16:39 |
|
"Morgoth's Curse" <morgothscurse2002 [at] nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1oora29efquem8qp7cmap21log202h0k9a [at] 4ax.com...
> On 3 Jul 2006 07:05:10 -0700, "Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> The Club's magazine "Sierra" does offer some practical advice, but I
>>> am seeking a forum where I can ask specific questions about recycling
>>> and other issues. Unfortunately, I have not yet found such a forum.
>>>
>>Maybe you can ask your specific questions here, maybe someone will
>>know?
>
> Anybody know how to recycle Styrofoam? :-) It's easy to deliver
> Styrofoam peanuts to the local Fed Ex outlet for reuse, but it is
> almost impossible to recycle the Styrofoam blocks that are included
> with every electronic device whether it be a computer or a DVD player.
> I hate the thought of just throwing it away, but I do not have any use
> for it myself and do not have much storage space in my garage.
well, according to a few interesting books I possess (one of which was put
out by the CIA in nicaragua, for those fun-loving jokesters: the Contras) it
is possible to melt down styrofoam, CAREFULLY mix it with two other
ingredients, and have a very decent plastic explosive. It seemed to work
well on Jack-o-Lanterns when I was a kid.
If that isn't how you wish to recycle such, there are some refuse companies
around that do take the stuff for recycling, although they are scattered.
For some reason those companies seem to be more prevalent in the mid-market
cities.
Here are two links that should help you out. The first one concentrates on
loose "peanut" type foam, the other is general
www.loosefillpackaging.com 800-828-2214
http://www.epspackaging.org/info.html
>
>>> I removed alt.org.sierra-club from my newsreader, but retained
>>> alt.forestry primarily because those grumpy old loggers occasionally
>>> post fascinating links about trees. :-)
>>>
>>'grumpy old loggers', LOL. But oh, the huge ancient trees I saw in
>>California, where it took a *while* to walk around one! Redwoods, I
>>think they were called, but they were cut down incessantly and
>>ruthlessly. I think someone in the LOTR would have to say a word or two
>>about that.
>
> Indeed. I wish we had a thousand ents to storm the corporate
> headquarters of some of these logging companies. There is something
> fundamentally wrong with a person who can look at a redwood tree and
> see only lumber. :-\
>
> Morgoth's Curse
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298085 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 17:45 |
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Morgoth's Curse wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:09:17 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon [at] zonnet.nl>
> wrote:
>>>> T, Massster.
>>> Incidentally, I cannot grant your request to be the "mad
>>> scientist" of AFT/RABT, but how do you feel about the title of
>>> ALCHEMIST? I presume that you have a collection of beakers,
>>> cauldrons and other tools of the trade that you can use to
>>> concoct unholy substances while you cackle evilly? ;-)
>> Of course, of course I do. Hm. I could go with that, I guess,
>> but... why can't I be Mad Scientist, again?
> There no mad scientists in fantasy--unless an alchemist is
> considered a scientist. As best as I can determine, modern
> opinion on this point is mixed. Some consider alchemists to be
> the forerunner of modern scientists--they are fond of pointing
> out that Isaac Newton was deeply interested in alchemy--
Isaac Newton was also religious, a genius and stark raving mad. I can
hardly compare to him!
> while
> others consider them hucksters who knew how to fleece a king.
> The fact that Tolkien specifically mentions alchemists in LOTR is
> another reason why the title is much more appropriate than "Mad
> Scientist."
Hmmm... true, true. Can I be "Mad Alchemist", then?
T.
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298086 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 17:56 |
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"Taemon" <Taemon [at] zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:4h7dt4F1q1ufkU1 [at] individual.net...
> Morgoth's Curse wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:09:17 +0200, "Taemon" <Taemon [at] zonnet.nl>
>> wrote:
>>>>> T, Massster.
>>>> Incidentally, I cannot grant your request to be the "mad
>>>> scientist" of AFT/RABT, but how do you feel about the title of
>>>> ALCHEMIST? I presume that you have a collection of beakers,
>>>> cauldrons and other tools of the trade that you can use to
>>>> concoct unholy substances while you cackle evilly? ;-)
>>> Of course, of course I do. Hm. I could go with that, I guess,
>>> but... why can't I be Mad Scientist, again?
>> There no mad scientists in fantasy--unless an alchemist is
>> considered a scientist. As best as I can determine, modern
>> opinion on this point is mixed. Some consider alchemists to be
>> the forerunner of modern scientists--they are fond of pointing
>> out that Isaac Newton was deeply interested in alchemy--
>
> Isaac Newton was also religious, a genius and stark raving mad. I can
> hardly compare to him!
I saw a documentary that took a very intersting angle as regards Newton, in
that they correlated his behaviors and intellect and such to a form of
autism. I thought they stretched it a bit, to make their case, but it was
very compelling.
>
>> while
>> others consider them hucksters who knew how to fleece a king.
>> The fact that Tolkien specifically mentions alchemists in LOTR is
>> another reason why the title is much more appropriate than "Mad
>> Scientist."
>
> Hmmm... true, true. Can I be "Mad Alchemist", then?
>
> T.
>
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298091 ] |
Fr, 07 Juli 2006 21:15 |
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In rec.arts.books.tolkien Christopher Kreuzer <spamgard [at] blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Thankfully the peak of alt.fan.tolkien still remains reassuringly out of
> reach.
On the other hand, after less than 4 years you are 2/3 of
the way there! And you missed most of 2003! Maybe in another 2
years or so... :-)
--Jamie. (efil4dreN)
andrews .uwo } Merge these two lines to obtain my e-mail address.
[at] csd .ca } (Unsolicited "bulk" e-mail costs everyone.)
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298097 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 00:37 |
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On 2006-07-07, Morgoth's Curse <morgothscurse2002 [at] nospam.yahoo.com> wrote
in <1oora29efquem8qp7cmap21log202h0k9a [at] 4ax.com>:
> On 3 Jul 2006 07:05:10 -0700, "Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> The Club's magazine "Sierra" does offer some practical advice, but I
>>> am seeking a forum where I can ask specific questions about recycling
>>> and other issues. Unfortunately, I have not yet found such a forum.
>>>
>>Maybe you can ask your specific questions here, maybe someone will
>>know?
>
> Anybody know how to recycle Styrofoam? :-) It's easy to deliver
> Styrofoam peanuts to the local Fed Ex outlet for reuse, but it is
> almost impossible to recycle the Styrofoam blocks that are included
> with every electronic device whether it be a computer or a DVD player.
> I hate the thought of just throwing it away, but I do not have any use
> for it myself and do not have much storage space in my garage.
Does your community have a waste-to-energy plant? Styrofoam vs. paper
cups was a project in my thermodynamics class. We determined that
styrofoam was better because it works so well for coffee and releases so
much energy when burned. But the waste-to-energy plant can clean the
smoke; I guess you can't do that in a home boiler. So the project was
really only conclusive for Grand Rapids. :-)
--
Huan, the hound of Valinor
<http://www.douban.net/people/2000366/>
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298117 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 13:05 |
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BaJoRi schreef:
>
> Well, for once Sam made an astute observation (or was it someone else? I
> would never believe that Sam could say anything intelligent, yet I am faced
> with that possibility), India and China are much more inviolved with
> pollutant creation activity, and will double pollutants annually for the
> next few years, projected. ANy gains that might be realized by Kyoto, and I
> truly belioeve that there wouldn't be any such benefit, would be immediately
> offset by China and India, and in fact there will be even more pollutants in
> the atmosphere, due to those countries.
Although I think Sam says many sensible things - but it would be very
civilised when you two stopped insulting one another-, the above was
written by TT Arvind. But he calls these "globalisation emissions":
emissions solely attributable to production for Europe and the US.
(snip)
> >> The amount of forest in the world is virtually the same as when Teddy
> >> Roosevelt was in office (don't dispute it
> >
> > That is a dangerous remark in a newsgroup.
>
> But it is s true statement. The issue is bio-diversity.(snip)
I mean 'don't dispute it' is a strange remark in a newsgroup...
>
> The total amount of greenhouse gases produced by human technology is only
> 3.4% of the total produced every year. Not as much as those who are
> politically motivated would have you believe.
The (American) Union of Concerned Scientists says you are encouraged to
*disbelieve* the true amount human activities are contributing to
global warming for political reasons.
>It isn't an insignificant
> number by any stretch (but hardly enough to cause the current global
> warming), but as far as human pollution goes there are so many more things
> that humanity could work on easily enough (snip)
That is something we can agree on entirely.
Henriette
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298118 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 13:31 |
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Morgoth's Curse schreef:
> I wish we had a thousand ents to storm the corporate
> headquarters of some of these logging companies. There is something
> fundamentally wrong with a person who can look at a redwood tree and
> see only lumber. :-\
>
I got a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach every time we passed a
huge car with enormous felled redwoods on it. Do the people from
'corporate headquarters' see it? D.H. Lawrence writes in Lady
Chatterley's Lover:
"The gentry were departing to pleasanter places, where they could spend
their money without having to see how it was made".
We could definitely use an Ent or thousand;-)
Henriette
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298123 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 15:47 |
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Wes =F0u Iniyarutti hal!
=20
> Although I think Sam says many sensible things - but it would be very
> civilised when you two stopped insulting one another-, the above was
> written by TT Arvind. But he calls these "globalisation emissions":
> emissions solely attributable to production for Europe and the US.
There are also non-globalisation emissions in India and China which are=20
also on the increase (more cars, more people flying, more domestic=20
demand for consumer goods). Globalisation emissions are of a different=20
order of worry, though, because they call into question the figures we=20
trot out about the reduction in emissions in Europe.
> The (American) Union of Concerned Scientists says you are encouraged to
> *disbelieve* the true amount human activities are contributing to
> global warming for political reasons.
But even in the US, very few people take them seriously now. On the=20
academic front, the main plank of those against action to combat global=20
warmingers has shifted in the past few months from "Is human-induced=20
global warming really happening?" to "Even if global warming is=20
happening, should dealing with it really be a priority?" I suppose=20
that is progress of some sort.
--=20
Arvind
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298129 ] |
Sa, 08 Juli 2006 16:26 |
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"TT Arvind" <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:MPG.1f19c7edc5925b4d989d0c [at] news.individual.net...
Wes ðu Iniyarutti hal!
[snip]
>There are also non-globalisation emissions in India and China which are
also on the increase (more cars, more people flying,
Proof that there are no balrogs in India and China.
Öjevind
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298136 ] |
So, 09 Juli 2006 00:37 |
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"TT Arvind" <ttarvind [at] hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:MPG.1f1652e356c0f169989d0b [at] news.individual.net...
> Wes ðu Raven hal!
> > I never wanted to be a barbarian *king*. Barbarian suffices for me.
> > And if the King tries to command me så knuller jeg enken hans ganske
> > blidt og nennsomt.
> Erk. Veldig... høvisk.
Don't think that this is the most barbaric thing that I have written on
the Tolkien NGs. That must beyond competition be the times when I
deliberately accused an Irishman - sometimes Michael O'Neill, sometimes Een
Wilde Ier - of being a Sassenach. But what am I supposed to do, when one of
them calls a Swede "Norwegian", which is to a Swede an insult, and to a
Norwegian an imposition?
Annankákai.
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298154 ] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 00:06 |
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Wes =F0u =D6jevind L=E5ng hal!
> >There are also non-globalisation emissions in India and China which are
> >also on the increase (more cars, more people flying,
>=20
> Proof that there are no balrogs in India and China.
I actually suspect they fly Balrog-back. That would explain what all=20
those "emissions" are.
--=20
Arvind
Tonight thousands of people on this earth will die of starvation. Most=20
of you will not give a shit. And most of you will be more upset with=20
the fact that I said, 'shit' than that thousands of people will die=20
tonight. -- Tony Campolo
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| Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #298168 ] |
Mo, 10 Juli 2006 19:41 |
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TT Arvind schreef:
> There are also non-globalisation emissions in India and China which are
> also on the increase (more cars, more people flying, more domestic
> demand for consumer goods).
Thank you for this addition. In the globalisation emissions-discussions
this point appears to be usually overlooked.
> Globalisation emissions are of a different
> order of worry, though, because they call into question the figures we
> trot out about the reduction in emissions in Europe.
>
Exactly, it makes the figures very questionable.
(On the Union of Concerned Scientists)
> But even in the US, very few people take them seriously now.
Why? I take them seriously.
> On the
> academic front, the main plank of those against action to combat global
> warmingers has shifted in the past few months from "Is human-induced
> global warming really happening?" to "Even if global warming is
> happening, should dealing with it really be a priority?" I suppose
> that is progress of some sort.
I think 'we' have a package of interrelated priorities, of which this
is one. What would be your priority?
Iniyarutti (from a country below a rising sea-level)
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