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Fantasy » alt.fan.tolkien » AFT/RABT Titles Update
Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update) [message #303220 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 16:46
Larry Swain  
Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:09:37 -0500, Larry Swain <theswain [at] operamail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Steve Hayes wrote:
>>
>>>While never as popular as Tolkien or Lewis, Williams has an enthusiastic
>>>following, but his books are difficult to get and rarely reprinted.
>>>
>>>I haven't seen any in bookshops since the 1960s, and my copies are getting old
>>>and battered.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I love Williams' novels! Great stuff, if you go in for that sort of
>>thing. Anyway, at least here in the US his books remain in print. Wm.
>>Eerdman's keeps them in print and you should be able to find copies
>>easily enough. Or if you ask really nicely ;) since I'll be over in
>>your neck of the woods in late Sept., I can bring a volume or two with
>>me and post them to you from GB and save you the overseas shipping.
>
>
> Thanks very much for the offer, but I'm not in GB, so it would still be
> overseas. But fiction by US publishers is rarely sold here in South Africa
> (some sort of cartel agreement between US and British publishers) and so even
> if they are still in pint, it is unlikely that we'll see them in the
> bookshops, most of which cater only for the most Philistine of tastes.


Ah, sorry about that. Try a service like abebooks or tomfolio that have
international connections. They may be able to find used copies for you
to send.

>
> We see Stephen King in profusion (British editions, naturally), but Phil
> Rickman is hard to find, even though he is a British author, and williams is
> impossible.
>
> But as someone else remarked, anyone who enjoyed Lewis's "That hideous
> strength" should appreciate Williams.
>
>
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #303226 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 17:04
Een Wilde Ier  
Taemon wrote:
> Een Wilde Ier wrote:
>
>> Henriette wrote:
>>> Een Wilde Ier schreef:
>>>> Henriette wrote:
>>> Piet Hein is a Dutch sea warrior of the 17th century without
>>> whom we allegedly would now be a province of Spain. He is one of
>>> the few historical persons every Dutch person knows, probably
>>> because his name is mentioned in a song which is always sung
>>> during soccer-contests;-) but also because he had a very
>>> colourful life (actually very many elements of his life are
>>> found in Robin Hobb's Live Ship Traders series...).
>
> They are? Well! Who'd have thought!
>
>> Ahhh, yes - the unfinished trilogy :-/
>
> I read them all?

Seriously, there's no proper conclusion at the back of the third book.
Most disappointing.

(p.s. no-one spoil the ending for others, please)
Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update) [message #303231 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 19:01
bredband.net  
"Larry Swain" <theswain [at] operamail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:Z_qdneUmvaOFiSbZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d [at] rcn.net...

[snip]

>> Among other writers heavily influenced by Williams are Dorothy L. Sayers
>> (in the post-Wimsey years)

The period when Sayers tried (unsuccessfully) to become what she regarded as
a "serious writer". She simply did not have the mental equipment for it.
(Has anyone tried to read her "Thrones, Dominions"? If not, don't bother. It
is terrible stuff.) Her commentary on Dante is a case in point. It is widely
acknwledged that the second half of Purgatorio and all of Paradiso are
terribly boring to read - one protracted yawn. Sayers olympically declared
that people who complained about how uninteresting those parts of the Divine
Comedy were simply "read them for the wrong reasons" - as poetry instead of
as religious instruction. But the fact is, of course, that people looking
for religious instruction should not turn to a 14th century Florentine poet
whose quality was not in the theological field, but as a poet. His religious
instruction is, not to put too fine a point on it, outdated and, from the
outset, badly skewed. It included a considerable amount of settling accounts
with any enemy of Florence, or of the party he had sided with in Florence,
as well as his personal enemies. There are books which give straightforward
religious instruction - lots of them, from all ages, much better than Dante
could. Where Dante fails as a poet, what he writes is a failure in all
aspects.

Öjevind
Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update) [message #303237 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 19:52
psperson  
<I don't normally post to multiple newsgroups, but all three appear
reasonable and I don't know which one the OP is reading>

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:14:22 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesmstw [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

>Thanks very much for the offer, but I'm not in GB, so it would still be
>overseas. But fiction by US publishers is rarely sold here in South Africa
>(some sort of cartel agreement between US and British publishers) and so even
>if they are still in pint, it is unlikely that we'll see them in the
>bookshops, most of which cater only for the most Philistine of tastes.

In addition to purchasing on the Internet (or trying to special-order
through a book store), do you have/have you tried religious
bookstores? I am fairly certain that most if not all of the CS Lewis I
own and the Charles Williams set that I own were purchased in a
religious bookstore, not a general bookstore. Of course, that was in
the USA and 40-50 years ago so I have no idea if this idea would apply
to your location today.
"I find that a great many things which have been conclusively
demonstrated by the Ancients are unintelligible to the
bulk of the Moderns owing to their ignorance"
Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update) [message #303238 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 20:34
jwkenne  
Öjevind Lång wrote:
> The period when Sayers tried (unsuccessfully) to become what she regarded as
> a "serious writer". She simply did not have the mental equipment for it.

Rubbish. She was one of the first women to earn an Oxford MA.

> (Has anyone tried to read her "Thrones, Dominions"? If not, don't bother. It
> is terrible stuff.)

And where, pray, did you read that unpublished and unfinished manuscript?

> Her commentary on Dante is a case in point. It is widely
> acknwledged that the second half of Purgatorio and all of Paradiso are
> terribly boring to read - one protracted yawn.

....which is why it's survived as a masterpiece for seven centuries, no
doubt.

> Sayers olympically declared
> that people who complained about how uninteresting those parts of the Divine
> Comedy were simply "read them for the wrong reasons" - as poetry instead of
> as religious instruction.

No, she does not say that. She says that people go looking for gruesome
guts and are disappointed when they don't find them, and explicitly
states that the Purgatorio and Paradiso are superior to the Inferno /as/
/poetry/.

> But the fact is, of course, that people looking
> for religious instruction should not turn to a 14th century Florentine poet
> whose quality was not in the theological field, but as a poet.

Which is why she (who wrote "The Mind of the Maker", after all) makes no
such ridiculous claim. On the contrary, she goes to some effort to
explain the religious doctrine that Dante expects his readers to already
have some knowledge of, to this benighted and ignorant age.

> His religious
> instruction is, not to put too fine a point on it, outdated

Not particularly, unless you regard Christianity itself as "outdated",
in which case I scarcely dare ask what gimcrack new "prophet" you are
leaning on to justify the claim.

> and, from the
> outset, badly skewed. It included a considerable amount of settling accounts
> with any enemy of Florence, or of the party he had sided with in Florence,
> as well as his personal enemies.

....which is, of course, /not/ religious instruction.

> There are books which give straightforward
> religious instruction - lots of them, from all ages, much better than Dante
> could. Where Dante fails as a poet, what he writes is a failure in all
> aspects.

If Dante had failed as a poet as spectacularly as you seem to have
failed as a critic, he would have been forgotten long ago.

--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update) [message #303240 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 21:09
Steve Hayes  
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:52:21 GMT, Paul S. Person
<psperson [at] ix.netscom.com.invalid> wrote:

><I don't normally post to multiple newsgroups, but all three appear
>reasonable and I don't know which one the OP is reading>
>
>On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:14:22 +0200, Steve Hayes
><hayesmstw [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Thanks very much for the offer, but I'm not in GB, so it would still be
>>overseas. But fiction by US publishers is rarely sold here in South Africa
>>(some sort of cartel agreement between US and British publishers) and so even
>>if they are still in pint, it is unlikely that we'll see them in the
>>bookshops, most of which cater only for the most Philistine of tastes.
>
>In addition to purchasing on the Internet (or trying to special-order
>through a book store), do you have/have you tried religious
>bookstores? I am fairly certain that most if not all of the CS Lewis I
>own and the Charles Williams set that I own were purchased in a
>religious bookstore, not a general bookstore. Of course, that was in
>the USA and 40-50 years ago so I have no idea if this idea would apply
>to your location today.

Most of my Charles Williams books were bought in general book stores 40-50
years ago, but they are not available in any today.

It is difficult for them to become more popular if they are unavailable.

One can recommend a book to people, and if they see it in a bookshop they
might look at it and buy it. But if they have to order it from overseas, even
through an outfit like Amazon, most won't bother.

My wife bought a book from Amazon recently, because she hadn't seen any
available here, but that was because she had already read it, and had lost her
copy. I need a new copy of "Place of the lion", and might order it from Amazon
one of these days. But that doesn't encourage new readers.


--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://www.librarything.com/catalog/hayesstw
http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/Methodius
Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update) [message #303250 ] Mo, 17 Juli 2006 21:57
Larry Swain  
John W. Kennedy wrote:
> Öjevind Lång wrote:
>
>> The period when Sayers tried (unsuccessfully) to become what she
>> regarded as a "serious writer". She simply did not have the mental
>> equipment for it.
>
>
> Rubbish. She was one of the first women to earn an Oxford MA.
>
>> (Has anyone tried to read her "Thrones, Dominions"? If not, don't
>> bother. It is terrible stuff.)
>
>
> And where, pray, did you read that unpublished and unfinished manuscript?
>
>> Her commentary on Dante is a case in point. It is widely acknwledged
>> that the second half of Purgatorio and all of Paradiso are terribly
>> boring to read - one protracted yawn.
>
>
> ...which is why it's survived as a masterpiece for seven centuries, no
> doubt.
>
>> Sayers olympically declared that people who complained about how
>> uninteresting those parts of the Divine Comedy were simply "read them
>> for the wrong reasons" - as poetry instead of as religious instruction.
>
>
> No, she does not say that. She says that people go looking for gruesome
> guts and are disappointed when they don't find them, and explicitly
> states that the Purgatorio and Paradiso are superior to the Inferno /as/
> /poetry/.
>
>> But the fact is, of course, that people looking for religious
>> instruction should not turn to a 14th century Florentine poet whose
>> quality was not in the theological field, but as a poet.
>
>
> Which is why she (who wrote "The Mind of the Maker", after all) makes no
> such ridiculous claim. On the contrary, she goes to some effort to
> explain the religious doctrine that Dante expects his readers to already
> have some knowledge of, to this benighted and ignorant age.
>
>> His religious instruction is, not to put too fine a point on it, outdated
>
>
> Not particularly, unless you regard Christianity itself as "outdated",
> in which case I scarcely dare ask what gimcrack new "prophet" you are
> leaning on to justify the claim.
>
>> and, from the outset, badly skewed. It included a considerable amount
>> of settling accounts with any enemy of Florence, or of the party he
>> had sided with in Florence, as well as his personal enemies.

All this very well said, John. Thanks, saved me the trouble of making
the response. Well done indeed.
Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update) [message #303260 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 01:43
bredband.net  
"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne [at] attglobal.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:JMQug.33$BB4.12 [at] fe10.lga...
> Öjevind Lång wrote:
>> The period when Sayers tried (unsuccessfully) to become what she regarded
>> as a "serious writer". She simply did not have the mental equipment for
>> it.
>
> Rubbish. She was one of the first women to earn an Oxford MA.

I did not question her intelligence, only her ability to write "real
literature".

>> (Has anyone tried to read her "Thrones, Dominions"? If not, don't bother.
>> It is terrible stuff.)
>
> And where, pray, did you read that unpublished and unfinished manuscript?

It was finished by Jill Paton Walsh some years ago and then published in
Britain. I am sure you can get hold of it if you are interested.

>> Her commentary on Dante is a case in point. It is widely acknwledged that
>> the second half of Purgatorio and all of Paradiso are terribly boring to
>> read - one protracted yawn.
>
> ...which is why it's survived as a masterpiece for seven centuries, no
> doubt.
>
>> Sayers olympically declared that people who complained about how
>> uninteresting those parts of the Divine Comedy were simply "read them for
>> the wrong reasons" - as poetry instead of as religious instruction.
>
> No, she does not say that. She says that people go looking for gruesome
> guts and are disappointed when they don't find them, and explicitly states
> that the Purgatorio and Paradiso are superior to the Inferno /as/
> /poetry/.

I have read what she wrote, and I'm afraid your memory is slightly at fault
here. She explicitly says that Purgatorio and Paradiso have merit because of
their theological content. Somehow, it seems, she thought this religious
excellence automatically becomes poetic excellence. It is true that she
accuses those (the overwhelming majority of readers) who found the secod
half of Purgatorio and all of Paradiso boring of "wanting to read about
gruesome guts". That simply isn't true. What is true is that for some
reason, Dante was better at writing interestingly about evil, or about
people who were at least morally dubious, than about saints and angelic
beings.
*No one* without an ideological agenda has ever been able to regard the
latter half of Purgatorio, and all of Paradiso, as anything other than one
huge yawn.

>> But the fact is, of course, that people looking for religious instruction
>> should not turn to a 14th century Florentine poet whose quality was not
>> in the theological field, but as a poet.
>
> Which is why she (who wrote "The Mind of the Maker", after all) makes no
> such ridiculous claim. On the contrary, she goes to some effort to explain
> the religious doctrine that Dante expects his readers to already have some
> knowledge of, to this benighted and ignorant age.

I disagree with you. I maintain that Dante's age was much more benighted and
ignorant than ours. Crusades, the Inquisition, the persecution of Jews and
heretics, the witch hunts, the barbarous torture and executions, feudalism,
the indulgence racket, this and that.

>> His religious instruction is, not to put too fine a point on it, outdated
>
> Not particularly, unless you regard Christianity itself as "outdated", in
> which case I scarcely dare ask what gimcrack new "prophet" you are leaning
> on to justify the claim.

When Dante wrote the Comedy, he was settling lots of old scores. He also had
some theological stances that are not really in line with modern Christian
thought. Religions evolve, including Catholicism.

>> and, from the outset, badly skewed. It included a considerable amount of
>> settling accounts with any enemy of Florence, or of the party he had
>> sided with in Florence, as well as his personal enemies.
>
> ...which is, of course, /not/ religious instruction.

Exactly! From an "ideas" POV, the Comedy consists of old political grudges
and outdated theology.

>> There are books which give straightforward religious instruction - lots
>> of them, from all ages, much better than Dante could. Where Dante fails
>> as a poet, what he writes is a failure in all aspects.
>
> If Dante had failed as a poet as spectacularly as you seem to have failed
> as a critic, he would have been forgotten long ago.

I did not say that all of the Comedy sucks. Inferno and the first half of
Purgatorio are excellent literature. I'm not in any way unique when saying
that; it is the generally held opinion.
If anything, I'd say that you have failed as a person able to grasp what a
post actually says.

Ö. Lång
Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update) [message #303261 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 01:55
RPN  
=D6jevind L=E5ng wrote:

> *No one* without an ideological agenda has ever been able to regard the
> latter half of Purgatorio, and all of Paradiso, as anything other than one
> huge yawn.

I, for one, am a living disproof of your categorical statement.

RPN (who will maintain that the *Paradiso* contains the best poetry in
the *Commedia*)
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #303264 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 03:35
pseudonimofaqhater  
Cadwalader Balrog-Humphries wrote:
> Count Menelvagor wrote:
>
> > > I've previously considered explaining Tom using quantum mechanics -
> > > except that I couldn't explain the stumping. Although it does elegant=
ly
> > > explain the ring interaction and apparent ability to move at near
> > > relativistic velocity.
> >
> > nonsense. tom bombadil was a tectonic plate.
>
> You mean a dinner plate, my dear fellow, a dinner plate. Perfect to
> spread out a meal of braised dwarf and lightly fried noldo-a-la-&=A3$# [at] .
>
> Incidentally, you can get a copy of "101 wing-smackingly delicious
> secrets of the Balrog kitchen" at a special discount if you make a
> small donation to the Valaraukar Institute today.

Give the money to FATS instead. Balrog cuisine is disgusting.
http://count.teunc.org/rogs.html made me faint.
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #303265 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 03:44
pseudonimofaqhater  
Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III wrote:
> Cadwalader Balrog-Humphries wrote:
> > Count Menelvagor wrote:
> >
> > > > I've previously considered explaining Tom using quantum mechanics -
> > > > except that I couldn't explain the stumping. Although it does elega=
ntly
> > > > explain the ring interaction and apparent ability to move at near
> > > > relativistic velocity.
> > >
> > > nonsense. tom bombadil was a tectonic plate.
> >
> > You mean a dinner plate, my dear fellow, a dinner plate. Perfect to
> > spread out a meal of braised dwarf and lightly fried noldo-a-la-&=A3$# [at] .
> >
> > Incidentally, you can get a copy of "101 wing-smackingly delicious
> > secrets of the Balrog kitchen" at a special discount if you make a
> > small donation to the Valaraukar Institute today.
>
> Give the money to FATS instead. Balrog cuisine is disgusting.
> http://count.teunc.org/rogs.html made me faint.

Yes, th most shocking 404 ever made.

The actual site is even worse: http://count.teunc.org/rogs/rogs.html.
For some reason, balrog cuisine is viewed as a "useful" fact. Perhaps
if you're a poisoner.

By the way, please send FATS $150 today if you want to learn what the
one true evaluation of Dante's poetry is.
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #303278 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 10:39
Taemon  
Een Wilde Ier wrote:

> Taemon wrote:
>> Een Wilde Ier wrote:
>>> Ahhh, yes - the unfinished trilogy :-/
>> I read them all?
> Seriously, there's no proper conclusion at the back of the third
> book. Most disappointing.

Oh? I don't remember that. It's a few years, but I don't have any
lingering sense but of admiration and fondness. I don't think I'll
reread them, though.

T.
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #303282 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 11:47
Harold Marx Brzeznski  
Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III wrote:

> The actual site is even worse: http://count.teunc.org/rogs/rogs.html.
> For some reason, balrog cuisine is viewed as a "useful" fact. Perhaps
> if you're a poisoner.
>
> By the way, please send FATS $150 today if you want to learn what the
> one true evaluation of Dante's poetry is.

Bah! Pay no attention to these FATS schismatics, bretheren! Udunvagor
laughs scornfully at their antics. UFAT remains the one true way to the
wisdom of Udunvagor, Derrida and Clippy. And as proof, for a small
donation of $500, you can receive a personally autographed copy of
Udunvagor's "What made Durante so deglicious? A new approach to Dante"
bound in luxuriant rogskin AND an action statuette of Clippy COMPLETELY
FREE! Send us your credit card details today!

yours in faith,


Harold Marx Brzeznski
PS: Ceterem censeo FATSinem delandam esse
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #303291 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 15:22
bredband.net  
"Harold Marx Brzeznski" <brzeznski [at] gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:MPG.1f26be7e8f6ec11f989d27 [at] news.individual.net...

[snip]

> Bah! Pay no attention to these FATS schismatics, bretheren! Udunvagor
> laughs scornfully at their antics. UFAT remains the one true way to the
> wisdom of Udunvagor, Derrida and Clippy. And as proof, for a small
> donation of $500, you can receive a personally autographed copy of
> Udunvagor's "What made Durante so deglicious? A new approach to Dante"

Wait! Now I get it. When people say they think Dante's "Paradiso" is good,
they don't mean that it's good reading; they mean that it is good to eat.

Öjevind
Re: Charles Williams (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update) [message #303293 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 15:22
Derek Broughton  
RPN wrote:

>
> Öjevind Lång wrote:
>
>> *No one* without an ideological agenda has ever been able to regard the
>> latter half of Purgatorio, and all of Paradiso, as anything other than
>> one huge yawn.
>
> I, for one, am a living disproof of your categorical statement.
>
> RPN (who will maintain that the *Paradiso* contains the best poetry in
> the *Commedia*)

I assert that, ergo, you are a living ideological agenda :-)

I confess to not having even attempted anything after Inferno - Purgatory
never fit _my_ ideological agenda.
--
derek
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #304339 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 21:19
Taemon  
Öjevind Lång wrote:

> "Harold Marx Brzeznski" <brzeznski [at] gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
> news:MPG.1f26be7e8f6ec11f989d27 [at] news.individual.net...
>> Bah! Pay no attention to these FATS schismatics, bretheren!
>> Udunvagor laughs scornfully at their antics. UFAT remains the
>> one true way to the wisdom of Udunvagor, Derrida and Clippy. And as
>> proof, for a small donation of $500, you can receive a
>> personally autographed copy of Udunvagor's "What made Durante so
>> deglicious? A new approach to Dante"
> Wait! Now I get it. When people say they think Dante's "Paradiso"
> is good, they don't mean that it's good reading; they mean that
> it is good to eat.

That will be $500.

T.
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #304345 ] Di, 18 Juli 2006 22:32
Count Menelvagor  
=D6jevind L=E5ng wrote:
> "Harold Marx Brzeznski" <brzeznski [at] gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
> news:MPG.1f26be7e8f6ec11f989d27 [at] news.individual.net...
>
> [snip]
>
> > Bah! Pay no attention to these FATS schismatics, bretheren! Udunvagor
> > laughs scornfully at their antics. UFAT remains the one true way to the
> > wisdom of Udunvagor, Derrida and Clippy. And as proof, for a small
> > donation of $500, you can receive a personally autographed copy of
> > Udunvagor's "What made Durante so deglicious? A new approach to Dante"
>
> Wait! Now I get it. When people say they think Dante's "Paradiso" is good,
> they don't mean that it's good reading; they mean that it is good to eat.

his hobbit-blood gelati are to die for.
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #304352 ] Mi, 19 Juli 2006 03:51
pseudonimofaqhater  
Harold Marx Brzeznski wrote:
> Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III wrote:
>
> > The actual site is even worse: http://count.teunc.org/rogs/rogs.html.
> > For some reason, balrog cuisine is viewed as a "useful" fact. Perhaps
> > if you're a poisoner.
> >
> > By the way, please send FATS $150 today if you want to learn what the
> > one true evaluation of Dante's poetry is.
>
> Bah! Pay no attention to these FATS schismatics, bretheren! Udunvagor
> laughs scornfully at their antics. UFAT remains the one true way to the
> wisdom of Udunvagor, Derrida and Clippy. And as proof, for a small
> donation of $500, you can receive a personally autographed copy of
> Udunvagor's "What made Durante so deglicious? A new approach to Dante"
> bound in luxuriant rogskin AND an action statuette of Clippy COMPLETELY
> FREE! Send us your credit card details today!
>
> yours in faith,
>
>
> Harold Marx Brzeznski
> PS: Ceterem censeo FATSinem delandam esse

We have bigger fish to fry. Christopher Tolkien shall pay for his
treacherous lies!
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #304399 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 09:26
Henriette  
Een Wilde Ier schreef:

> Taemon wrote:
> > Een Wilde Ier wrote: [about the Liveship Traders Trilogy]
> >
> >> Ahhh, yes - the unfinished trilogy :-/
> >
> > I read them all?
>
> Seriously, there's no proper conclusion at the back of the third book.
> Most disappointing.
>
Mrs Hobb has a website where she answers readers' questions. You can
ask her for all the money you have spent on her books, to at least be
allowed to receive a proper ending!

> (p.s. no-one spoil the ending for others, please)

I'm nearly there;-) I will be upset when she doesn't put everything to
rights first!

HB
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #304400 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 09:41
Henriette  
Een Wilde Ier schreef:

> TT Arvind wrote:
> >
> > But even in the US, very few people take them seriously now. On the
> > academic front, the main plank of those against action to combat global
> > warmingers has shifted in the past few months from "Is human-induced
> > global warming really happening?" to "Even if global warming is
> > happening, should dealing with it really be a priority?" I suppose
> > that is progress of some sort.
>
> No, it's just the next stage in delaying tactics by corporations. It's a
> well-trodden path (big tobacco?) by this point.

The 'tobacco-truth' came out eventually, so will environmental
sustainability be acknowledged eventually as one of the major
challenges the world is facing today.

HB
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #304402 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 09:49
Henriette  
Troels Forchhammer schreef:

> "Henriette" <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> enriched us with:
>
> > Troels' Piet Hein is actually a great-great-great-great grandson
> > of our Piet and a Danish writer/poet.
>
> Thanks -- I didn't remember how many greats he should have ;-)
>
LOL. This was just a wild guess;-)

> My grandmother used to say that he was a sour curmudgeon in real life,
> which only goes to show that the relation between artist and art is not
> always as direct as one might believe.
>
That subject is very sensitively dealt with in Paul Gallico's 'Love of
Seven Dolls'.

> ObTolkien:
> But only one's guardian Angel, or indeed God Himself,
> could unravel the real relationship between personal facts
> and an author's works. Not the author himself (though he
> knows more than any investigator), and certainly not so-
> called 'psychologists'.
> [Letter #213 To Deborah Webster, October 1958]

Nice quote, except maybe for psychologists...

Henriette
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #304438 ] Do, 20 Juli 2006 23:57
Christopher Kreuzer  
Henriette <heldenib [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

> The 'tobacco-truth' came out eventually, so will environmental
> sustainability be acknowledged eventually as one of the major
> challenges the world is facing today.

Sustainability of any kind is obvious when you stop and think about it.
Moving from the small-scale model to global models doesn't reduce the
need for eventual sustainability (think on a timescale of millennia, and
most resources run out pretty quickly). It is just the large numbers
that seem to obscure things most of the time. When you see waterfalls
with hundreds of thousands of litres of water pouring over them every
second, it is difficult to think that things like water can ever run
out. Then you start to look at how much of it is clean, the transport
costs, the cleaning costs, etc, etc. Plus the numbers of people needing
any particular resource. And it takes time to even calculate what is
going on - and to gather the information so it is not just hand-waving.
And even then, all the studies don't really link up together to draw the
big picture. Or they are out-of-date before they are published.

I particularly like the "cradle-to-grave" analyses. Pick up any random
object around you that you have just purchased, and try to calculate
what processes of mining, manufacturing and transport were needed to get
it to you. Then throw it in the bin (assuming it is disposable and you
don't need to keep it). That was a waste, wasn't it?

One hope is that there are future technologies out there that will
overcome many of the problems we are storing up for ourselves. But I
don't think all the problems can be solved by human ingenuity.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
Liveship Trilogy (was Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update) [message #304439 ] Fr, 21 Juli 2006 00:20
Speaking Clock  
Een Wilde Ier <maoltuile [at] utvinternet.ie> wrote:

> Henriette wrote:
>> Piet Hein is a Dutch sea warrior of the 17th century without whom we
>> allegedly would now be a province of Spain. He is one of the few
>> historical persons every Dutch person knows, probably because his
>> name is mentioned in a song which is always sung during
>> soccer-contests;-) but also because he had a very colourful life
>> (actually very many elements of his life are found in Robin Hobb's
>> Live Ship Traders series...).
>
> Ahhh, yes - the unfinished trilogy :-/

Unfinished? In what way - I've just read the series of nine Robin Hobbs
books of which those formed the middle three. Were you left wondering
by the ending of book nine, as I was, or did you find the Liveship
trilogy incomplete in some way?

(I'm so glad I didn't listen to my local bookseller who told me I could
skip the Liveship books and progress straight to the "Fool" books, by
the way.)
--
Speaking Clock
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #304446 ] Fr, 21 Juli 2006 01:01
Harold Marx Brzeznski  
The wise and generous Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III waxed forth in
words of wonder:

> We have bigger fish to fry. Christopher Tolkien shall pay for his
> treacherous lies!

How much?


yours in faith,

Harold Marx Brzeznski
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #304448 ] Fr, 21 Juli 2006 01:05
Harold Marx Brzeznski  
Taemon wrote:

> That will be $500.

Thank you, O Friend of UFAT. For this, UFAT will gladly pay you a
small commission. Now, if you will just send us your credit card
details...

yours in faith,

Harold Marx Brzeznski
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #304467 ] Fr, 21 Juli 2006 03:58
pseudonimofaqhater  
Harold Marx Brzeznski wrote:
> The wise and generous Pseudonymus al-Faqha'ter III waxed forth in
> words of wonder:
>
> > We have bigger fish to fry. Christopher Tolkien shall pay for his
> > treacherous lies!
>
> How much?

That will be for the courts to determine. Hopefully, quite a lot.
Re: AFT/RABT Titles Update [message #304475 ] Fr, 21 Juli 2006 12:11
Taemon  
Harold Marx Brzeznski wrote:

> Taemon wrote:
>> That will be $500.
> Thank you, O Friend of UFAT. For this, UFAT will gladly pay you a
> small commission. Now, if you will just send us your credit card
> details...

You already have those. Who do you think will be paying that
commission? I got a membership some time ago. For free! Free!
Hahahahahaha!

T.
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