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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc
| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204221 ] |
Mo, 30 Januar 2006 01:03 |
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On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 23:08:18 -0000, "Jaxtraw"
<jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote:
>It seems pretty obvious with hindsight that they had no idea what they
>intended to do with the series. There was not even the most general of
>plans. It was conceived purely as another setting for run of the mill
>Trekisodes, a formula which had already fallen apart with Voyager.
As I watch the reruns, I begin to see a pattern. An obvious one is "growing
pains." They wanted to show Archer and his crew from their earliest
beginnings as novices, not sure what they're doing in space, to their
acquiring the expertise that future Treks took for granted. Strike one.
Also, they tried to pay homage to TOS with lots of little - and some not so
little - references. So, we have Andorians and Tellurites, Orion syndicates
and Nietzchean supermen, Romulans and Tholians, et. al. It was felt, I
think, the fans would really like all these little touches of the old series
grafted onto the new. They didn't. Strike two.
One of Bermantrek's biggest failings is it is too cool in the McLuhanesque
sense. The fans want passion and the intensity of a show like 24. Never
mind that this intensity is unreal. Fans really don't want to see the
monotony and boredom that is most of what space travel is about. They want
action, gut-wrenching drama, plot twists, and hot babes. Enterprise didn't
deliver any of these. Strike three.
You're out.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204223 ] |
Mo, 30 Januar 2006 02:22 |
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"George Peatty" <peattyg47-1230 [at] copper.net> wrote in message
news:g9lqt1t3acgcgjh47bhhhgjt0ke6r63f2h [at] 4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 23:08:18 -0000, "Jaxtraw"
> <jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote:
>
> >It seems pretty obvious with hindsight that they had no idea what they
> >intended to do with the series. There was not even the most general of
> >plans. It was conceived purely as another setting for run of the mill
> >Trekisodes, a formula which had already fallen apart with Voyager.
>
> As I watch the reruns, I begin to see a pattern. An obvious one is
"growing
> pains." They wanted to show Archer and his crew from their earliest
> beginnings as novices, not sure what they're doing in space, to their
> acquiring the expertise that future Treks took for granted. Strike one.
>
> Also, they tried to pay homage to TOS with lots of little - and some not
so
> little - references. So, we have Andorians and Tellurites, Orion
syndicates
> and Nietzchean supermen, Romulans and Tholians, et. al. It was felt, I
> think, the fans would really like all these little touches of the old
series
> grafted onto the new. They didn't. Strike two.
>
> One of Bermantrek's biggest failings is it is too cool in the McLuhanesque
> sense. The fans want passion and the intensity of a show like 24. Never
> mind that this intensity is unreal. Fans really don't want to see the
> monotony and boredom that is most of what space travel is about. They
want
> action, gut-wrenching drama, plot twists, and hot babes. Enterprise
didn't
> deliver any of these. Strike three.
>
> You're out.
The odd thing is, they seem to have this kind of subconscious repression
regarding the hot babes thing. They cast two hot babes in the show (Hoshi
and T'Pol). They barely featured Hoshi at all. They put T'Pol in a catsuit,
which everyone hated because it was kind of too obvious, then gave her an
awful haircut to ruin the effect. Which was why she only looked good in the
Mirror episodes.
As to monotony- that's become an increasing feature since TNG. It's not so
much the stories or scripts as a certain "house style" of directing, ISTM,
that's curiously soporific. That's one reason I think Trek needs fresh eyes
on it, a new creative team, before it relaunches (if it ever does). Watching
latterday Trek, I always get the feeling whatever is happening on screen,
something much more interesting is happening *off screen*. Like, wow, we
just met a whole new alien race- so here's Archer talking to his dog about
it.
Ian
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204225 ] |
Mo, 30 Januar 2006 04:52 |
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Snake wrote:
> "zonker" <zonkerdead [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1138289731.201641.23520 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > continuity problems are through out star trek all of them, one episode
> > the ship can do this and the next it can't what the heck is that.
>
> True
>
> > enterprise was great fun and it actually solved one of the continuity
> > problems, the appearance of the klingons.
>
> But there's the known problem. In TNG Picard said First Contact with the
> Klingons brought "decades of war".
>
> Well, where was the war???
The war happened after the series finale of Enterprise.
Michael
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #204227 ] |
Mo, 30 Januar 2006 08:38 |
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"Michael Ejercito" <mejercit [at] hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138593135.087174.92760 [at] g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Snake wrote:
> > "zonker" <zonkerdead [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1138289731.201641.23520 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > continuity problems are through out star trek all of them, one episode
> > > the ship can do this and the next it can't what the heck is that.
> >
> > True
> >
> > > enterprise was great fun and it actually solved one of the continuity
> > > problems, the appearance of the klingons.
> >
> > But there's the known problem. In TNG Picard said First Contact with
the
> > Klingons brought "decades of war".
> >
> > Well, where was the war???
> The war happened after the series finale of Enterprise.
Is not a "cold war" still a war?
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #212886 ] |
Mo, 30 Januar 2006 15:41 |
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"Kweeg" <kweeg [at] nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:6ojDf.488177$ki.282230 [at] pd7tw2no...
> Is not a "cold war" still a war?
That is quite true. However we *still* see nothing of this "cold war" - no
grandstanding, no chest thumping, no brinkmanship, no politics, no
propaganda...nothing. The Klingons came...and went. If a "cold war" did
begin after ENT's finale that is a decade after they are first met - that's
an awfully long 'simmer time' without apparent interaction just to get
'cold'!! ^_^
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #212887 ] |
Mo, 30 Januar 2006 16:39 |
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"Snake" <fluidstates_NO+SPAM [at] REMOVE-ME.verizon.IHATESPAM.SPAM_VAC.com> wrote
in message news:nApDf.2307$0J3.1408 [at] trndny08...
> "Kweeg" <kweeg [at] nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:6ojDf.488177$ki.282230 [at] pd7tw2no...
> > Is not a "cold war" still a war?
>
> That is quite true. However we *still* see nothing of this "cold war" -
no
> grandstanding, no chest thumping, no brinkmanship, no politics, no
> propaganda...nothing. The Klingons came...and went. If a "cold war" did
> begin after ENT's finale that is a decade after they are first met -
that's
> an awfully long 'simmer time' without apparent interaction just to get
> 'cold'!! ^_^
>
>
A declared war where nothing warlike seems to happen tends to be called a
"phony war".
Ian
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #212923 ] |
Di, 31 Januar 2006 21:42 |
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Snake wrote:
> "zonker" <zonkerdead [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1138289731.201641.23520 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > continuity problems are through out star trek all of them, one episode
> > the ship can do this and the next it can't what the heck is that.
>
> True
>
> > enterprise was great fun and it actually solved one of the continuity
> > problems, the appearance of the klingons.
>
> But there's the known problem. In TNG Picard said First Contact with the
> Klingons brought "decades of war".
>
> Well, where was the war???
>
good question cause the oraganians(sp?) forced peace between the
klingons and the federation, and while their was hostility never saw a
war during kirks time either.
> Not to mention NX-01 personnel having "phase pistols" while Pike, Spock et
> al. in "The Menagerie" having *lasers*.
>
> Not to mention NX-01 doing a warp 5 while NCC-1701 in "The Menagerie" barely
> doing warp 7, and NCC-1701 in "Arena" barely holding sustained +7 - all this
> being 100 years after NX-01.
>
> So in 100 years they have managed a 2 warp increase - even after all of
> NX-01's "boldly going" and meeting new life, not to mention new
> technologies. Remember the comment in "The Menagerie"? "With our new
> ships..." Hmmm. 2 warp being a radical improvement? And the castaways on
> Talos would therefore have had access to at least warp 5 ships, never mind a
> good chance of warp 6 ships. Waiting for Enterprise to find them in order
> for a warp 7 ship to be able to actually reach them - the implication of the
> rescue, that they were a bit "out of the way" prior to a Constitution-class
> speed vessel showing up 'in the neighborhood' - is rather fantastic.
>
> And NX-01's transporter being even faster in operation than NCC-1701 under
> Pike...
and the enterprise crew was always nervouse about them to while kirks
crew wasn't maybe slower was safer?
>
> Sorry. Kweeg may defend B&B's abomination of canon but not everyone else
> here does.
>
> If Star Trek canon never shows the sun setting in a pink sunset on Earth
> does that mean B&B can say it never, ever does for the rest of time?
>
> Hell, no Starfleet officer is ever shown taking a dump. Maybe B&B can
> remove all heads on starships and say they really are reclaiming for the
> space for larger weapons.
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #212971 ] |
Do, 02 Februar 2006 03:56 |
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"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:WLydnWz-_b6aJkrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>
> I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
> know how to spell Queeg.
perhaps though you haven't noticed that our kweeg is a klingon fan, he has
klingonised the name, in much the same way many peoples anglicise their name
when they move to english speaking countries, the most obvious example being
the greek petros to the english peter.
cheers
fozzi
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #212972 ] |
Do, 02 Februar 2006 03:58 |
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"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:GfmdnTDSWcNS5kTeRVn-pA [at] giganews.com...
> Kweeg wrote:
>> I am not
>> Captain Queeg of "The Caine Mutiny" I have not spelt HIS name wrong.
>
> So now you claim you didn't get it from The Caine Mutiny? Make up your
> mind.
>
actually i was under the impression he got it from the red dwarf ep Queeg, i
got this impression because he is also a dwarf fan
cheers
fozzi
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #212973 ] |
Do, 02 Februar 2006 04:20 |
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"Fozzi" <efor6920 [at] bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:0zeEf.233405$V7.192345 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:GfmdnTDSWcNS5kTeRVn-pA [at] giganews.com...
> > Kweeg wrote:
> >> I am not
> >> Captain Queeg of "The Caine Mutiny" I have not spelt HIS name wrong.
> >
> > So now you claim you didn't get it from The Caine Mutiny? Make up your
> > mind.
> >
>
>
> actually i was under the impression he got it from the red dwarf ep Queeg,
i
> got this impression because he is also a dwarf fan
Donworryaboutit, Fozzi... Ragnar's a nutter, banished to the phantom zone
with the rest of the trolls and the unhinged....
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #212974 ] |
Do, 02 Februar 2006 04:22 |
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"Fozzi" <efor6920 [at] bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:uxeEf.233403$V7.193024 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:WLydnWz-_b6aJkrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
> >
> > I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
> > know how to spell Queeg.
>
>
> perhaps though you haven't noticed that our kweeg is a klingon fan, he has
> klingonised the name, in much the same way many peoples anglicise their
name
> when they move to english speaking countries, the most obvious example
being
> the greek petros to the english peter.
shhh... your just gonna confuse him with logic.....
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #212979 ] |
Do, 02 Februar 2006 14:18 |
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Fozzi wrote:
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:WLydnWz-_b6aJkrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>
>>I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
>>know how to spell Queeg.
>
>
>
> perhaps though you haven't noticed that our kweeg is a klingon fan, he has
> klingonised the name, in much the same way many peoples anglicise their name
> when they move to english speaking countries, the most obvious example being
> the greek petros to the english peter.
>
> cheers
> fozzi
>
Umm, Klingons aren't real. Why do you support his psychosis?
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #213036 ] |
Fr, 03 Februar 2006 06:59 |
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"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
news:upadnc1k--w0m3_eRVn-gA [at] giganews.com...
> Fozzi wrote:
>> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:WLydnWz-_b6aJkrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>>
>>>I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
>>>know how to spell Queeg.
>>
>>
>>
>> perhaps though you haven't noticed that our kweeg is a klingon fan, he
>> has klingonised the name, in much the same way many peoples anglicise
>> their name when they move to english speaking countries, the most obvious
>> example being the greek petros to the english peter.
>>
>> cheers
>> fozzi
>
>
> Umm, Klingons aren't real. Why do you support his psychosis?
umm nothing about star trek is real, why do you wish to be a kill joy
cheers
fozzi
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #213039 ] |
Fr, 03 Februar 2006 09:26 |
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"Fozzi" <efor6920 [at] bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:_iCEf.234360$V7.193205 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:upadnc1k--w0m3_eRVn-gA [at] giganews.com...
> > Fozzi wrote:
> >> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> >> news:WLydnWz-_b6aJkrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
> >>
> >>>I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
> >>>know how to spell Queeg.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> perhaps though you haven't noticed that our kweeg is a klingon fan, he
> >> has klingonised the name, in much the same way many peoples anglicise
> >> their name when they move to english speaking countries, the most
obvious
> >> example being the greek petros to the english peter.
> >>
> >> cheers
> >> fozzi
> >
> >
> > Umm, Klingons aren't real. Why do you support his psychosis?
>
> umm nothing about star trek is real, why do you wish to be a kill joy
Have fun with the "Ragnar chew toy" Fozzi, I got board of it pretty fast as
it's not that clever.
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
"So say we all!"
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #213041 ] |
Fr, 03 Februar 2006 11:46 |
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Kweeg wrote:
> "Fozzi" <efor6920 [at] bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:_iCEf.234360$V7.193205 [at] news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>news:upadnc1k--w0m3_eRVn-gA [at] giganews.com...
>>
>>>Fozzi wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:WLydnWz-_b6aJkrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
>>>>>know how to spell Queeg.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>perhaps though you haven't noticed that our kweeg is a klingon fan, he
>>>>has klingonised the name, in much the same way many peoples anglicise
>>>>their name when they move to english speaking countries, the most
>
> obvious
>
>>>>example being the greek petros to the english peter.
>>>>
>>>>cheers
>>>>fozzi
>>>
>>>
>>>Umm, Klingons aren't real. Why do you support his psychosis?
>>
>>umm nothing about star trek is real, why do you wish to be a kill joy
>
>
> Have fun with the "Ragnar chew toy" Fozzi, I got board of it pretty fast as
> it's not that clever.
>
Clever enough to know that "bored" isn't spelled "board".
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| Re: Help with Xindi/Temporal Cold War Arc [message #213042 ] |
Fr, 03 Februar 2006 11:46 |
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Fozzi wrote:
> "Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:upadnc1k--w0m3_eRVn-gA [at] giganews.com...
>
>>Fozzi wrote:
>>
>>>"Ragnar" <rworkss [at] comsouth.net> wrote in message
>>>news:WLydnWz-_b6aJkrenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d [at] giganews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear, but at least I
>>>>know how to spell Queeg.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>perhaps though you haven't noticed that our kweeg is a klingon fan, he
>>>has klingonised the name, in much the same way many peoples anglicise
>>>their name when they move to english speaking countries, the most obvious
>>>example being the greek petros to the english peter.
>>>
>>>cheers
>>>fozzi
>>
>>
>>Umm, Klingons aren't real. Why do you support his psychosis?
>
>
> umm nothing about star trek is real, why do you wish to be a kill joy
>
> cheers
> fozzi
Not a kill joy, just trying to help the delusional deal with real life.
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