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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180144 ] |
Do, 15 Dezember 2005 21:56 |
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ToolPackinMama wrote:
> whodunit wrote:
>
>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>
>
>>> She was ill. No one is at their best when they are ill.
>>
>>
>>
>> I always got the impression that she was like that even before she
>> became sick, like her whole life.
>
>
> Why do you think that? It's not like she wasn't liked or respected. She
> was a Federation Commissioner to start with, and a pretty young woman to
> boot. Just cos she feverishly complained that she was good at her job,
> but had "never been loved" doesn't mean she was in any way a bad
> person. She had been granted a vital diplomatic mission: to "stop a
> war". She must have had ~something~ on the ball.
>
> IMHO, she is more polite while deathly ill than most people are when
> they are healthy. Surely that is to her credit.
>
> She was dying. She had been robbed of her one hope for health, and was
> dying! How good of a sport would you be under such circumstances?
Girlie,
It's been about 20 years since the last time I saw the episodes *!*
so what I'm remembering is impressions, not facts. :-)
I'm a lot older now, and I'm lucky if I can remember my own name most
days. Cut me some slack. ;-)
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180145 ] |
Do, 15 Dezember 2005 23:13 |
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Jaxtraw wrote:
> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
> news:G7SdndxYw68zeD3enZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>
>>Jaxtraw wrote:
>>
>>>"3D Master" <3d.master [at] chello.nl> wrote in message
>>>news:97125$43a08db8$3ec2eec9$5130 [at] news.chello.nl...
>>>
>>>
>>>>General Order 24: the destruction of all sentient life on the planet in
>>>>"A Taste of Armageddon". If the people there didn't give in: bye, bye
>>>>planet. I'd say that's a big one. It all panned out in the end of
>>>>course, and the order was never executed; but he did give it, gambling
>>>>with the lives of an entire planet.
>>>>
>>>>Not that I disagree with the order, but it's definitely a "questionable"
>>>>one.
>>>
>>>
>>>It's even more dubious that the order even *exists*.
>>
>>We don't actually know what that order fully, totally, ~really~ entails.
>> Uhura reacted with shock when she heard Scotty say they were
>>preparing to target all major cities. Why was she surprised or dismayed
>>by that? Didn't she already know what "general order 24" meant?
>>
>>Seriously. Think about it.
>
>
> I've just watched it and there's no way around it; it's a real order.
> There's no hint or implication of a ruse anywhere. Uhura's shock reaction is
> probably just the director trying to add a bit of excitement. You're right;
> she should know what GO24 is.
>
> Ian
Of course she knows what GO24 entails. Anyone here considered the
possibility she wasn't shocked about the contents, but that they were
actually going to do it? As in: "You can't be serious! The captain
couldn't be serious!?"
3D Master
--
~~~~~
"I've got something to say; it's better to burn out than to fade away!"
- The Kurgan, Highlander
"Give me some sugar, baby!"
- Ashley J. 'Ash' Williams, Army of Darkness
~~~~~
Author of several stories, which can be found here:
http://members.chello.nl/~jg.temolder1/
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180146 ] |
Do, 15 Dezember 2005 23:17 |
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ToolPackinMama wrote:
> Ragnar wrote:
>
>> 3D Master wrote:
>>
>>> General Order 24: the destruction of all sentient life on the planet
>>> in "A Taste of Armageddon". If the people there didn't give in: bye,
>>> bye planet. I'd say that's a big one. It all panned out in the end of
>>> course, and the order was never executed; but he did give it,
>>> gambling with the lives of an entire planet.
>>>
>>> Not that I disagree with the order, but it's definitely a
>>> "questionable" one.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd question whether the order actually exists. It could very well be
>> Kirk bluffing. Remember the Corbomite Maneuver?
>
>
> Exactly. Maybe Kirk and Scotty had a ~private agreement~ that "general
> order 24" meant that they would fake such a threat. That would explain
> why Uhura seemed utterly shocked by it. To her, it seems unthinkable.
>
> Scotty probably explained, once the radio was off. That's probably why
> she calmed down.
Except of course, that at the end Spock and Kirk have a talk about it;
whether Kirk was serious. And he pretty much said yes, although he
gambled on the people not wanting to be destroyed. That final
conversation tells it all: it IS a real order, and if it were up to Kirk
that planet would have been destroyed. The question of ourse becomes,
would Scotty have gone through with it?
3D Master
--
~~~~~
"I've got something to say; it's better to burn out than to fade away!"
- The Kurgan, Highlander
"Give me some sugar, baby!"
- Ashley J. 'Ash' Williams, Army of Darkness
~~~~~
Author of several stories, which can be found here:
http://members.chello.nl/~jg.temolder1/
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180147 ] |
Do, 15 Dezember 2005 23:19 |
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ToolPackinMama wrote:
> 3D Master wrote:
>
>> General Order 24: the destruction of all sentient life on the planet
>> in "A Taste of Armageddon". If the people there didn't give in: bye,
>> bye planet. I'd say that's a big one. It all panned out in the end of
>> course, and the order was never executed; but he did give it, gambling
>> with the lives of an entire planet.
>
>
> I gotta say: we don't actually know the full text of "General order
> 24". Maybe it's an order to convincingly fake such a threat. Kirk has
> faked threats on other occasions. He didn't actually kill Mara in "Day
> Of The Dove" for example.
>
> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/dovemara.htm
> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/daydove.htm
>
> He didn't ever actually have any corbomite, for example.
>
> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/corbomite.htm
>
> And, oh yeah, "Fizzbin" isn't a real card game. He totally made those
> rules up.
>
> In any case, general order 24 seems to be a genuine order that Kirk is
> fully, properly authorized ~by starfleet~ to envoke at his own
> discretion. If anyone has a problem with it, complain to starfleet, and
> to the UFP that empowers starfleet.
As said in my above post: the talk Kirk and Spock had at the end removes
any and all doubt, where Spock questions if Kirk was bluffy and he
answers 'no'; it's a REAL order. The only question is, if Kirk had been
called or so, would Scotty have gone through with it?
3D Master
--
~~~~~
"I've got something to say; it's better to burn out than to fade away!"
- The Kurgan, Highlander
"Give me some sugar, baby!"
- Ashley J. 'Ash' Williams, Army of Darkness
~~~~~
Author of several stories, which can be found here:
http://members.chello.nl/~jg.temolder1/
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180148 ] |
Do, 15 Dezember 2005 23:19 |
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And not only that - she has to listen to "Oobie-Doobie" for all
eternity!
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180149 ] |
Do, 15 Dezember 2005 23:19 |
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And not only that - she has to listen to "Oobie-Doobie" for all
eternity!
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180150 ] |
Do, 15 Dezember 2005 23:23 |
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Graeme wrote:
>>If it's a bluff, there's no indication that it was pre-arranged- this is
>>after all a story, so if that was what the writer had in mind they
>>should/would have put such a hint in there.
>
>
> Yes, if the writer had intended it to be a bluff, then it would have
> been very bad writing not to have put such a hint in there, in the form
> of a comment made out of earshot of the Eminians (such as Scotty saying
> "If they don't go for this, I don't know what we'll try next").
>
> Of course just because the writer didn't intend for it to be a bluff
> doesn't mean that we can't write it off as one, if it's stupid enough.
Once again: the question Spock asked Kirk in the end, eliminates it as a
bluff. That order was real, it exists, and from the way Kirk spoke, he
intended to go through with it, simply because in the long run the
destruction of that one planet saved more lives that it destroyed.
3D Master
--
~~~~~
"I've got something to say; it's better to burn out than to fade away!"
- The Kurgan, Highlander
"Give me some sugar, baby!"
- Ashley J. 'Ash' Williams, Army of Darkness
~~~~~
Author of several stories, which can be found here:
http://members.chello.nl/~jg.temolder1/
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180152 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 00:26 |
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Benjamin Pavsner wrote:
> A biggie for me would have been not confiding in the Mirror Spock in "Mirror
> Mirror." MirSpock would have eventually come to the conclusion that Kirk and
> Co. wasn't HIS Kirk and Co.. He seemed more of a natural order type of guy
> and figured Kirk didn't belong there as much as MirKirk didn't belong where
> he was and probably would have agreed to the plan to send Kirk and Co. back.
Kirk had no way of knowing he could trust Mirror Spock.
The very first thing Kirk saw when he materialized on the Mirror
Enterprise transporter platform, was Mirror Spock torturing Mirror Kyle.
That didn't give Kirk a warm feeling that Mirror Spock was a "natural
order type of guy." Nor did Mirror Spock's willingness to annihilate
the entire race of Mirror Halkans.
Only when Mirror Spock told Kirk that he, like his counterpart in Kirk's
universe, did not desire the captaincy did Kirk realize Mirror Spock was
a man of integrity too. But by then, his plan to escape from the Mirror
Universe was nearly complete anyway.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180155 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 01:12 |
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in article 1134526372.033186.85090 [at] z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com,
shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com at shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote on 12/13/05 7:12
PM:
> Captain Pike agreed to spend his the rest of his days with the
> Talosians, so I think everything worked out for the best. What I find
> implausible was how Commodore Menendez chose not to pursue charges
> against Spock. I mean, all he did was merely commandeer the Enterprise,
> issue false orders, kidnap Captain Pike, assault Starbase personnel,
> etc., etc. ;)
>
> Shnaggletooth
>
Of course we have no idea how much of the real Mendez we even saw. Or what
phony orders from Starfleet the Talosians may have beamed him. :-)
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180156 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 01:13 |
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in article Pine.GSO.4.61.0512132143120.17741 [at] shell1, Robert Bernardo at
rbernardo [at] iglou.com wrote on 12/13/05 7:44 PM:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Jaxtraw wrote:
>
>> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her...
>
> Wrong. Please watch the episode again.
>
> The Companion does not kill,
> Robert Bernardo
Well, the Companion kidnapped her and held her against her will until she
died. It may not have been intentional, but I'd have to agree with the
characterization that the Companion killed her.
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180157 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 01:14 |
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in article Pine.GSO.4.61.0512132213120.18517 [at] shell1, Robert Bernardo at
rbernardo [at] iglou.com wrote on 12/13/05 8:17 PM:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Laura wrote:
>
>> The companion let her die...
>
> Please watch the episode again. The Companion sacrificed its self
> to become one with Nancy and thus in saving her life, the Companion became
> mortal. The Companion did not have to do that.
But the Companion did it for purely selfish reasons, to get Cochrane for
itself.
>
> No zombie or legal theories involved,
> Robert Bernardo
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180158 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 01:16 |
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in article 439f9029$0$23289$db0fefd9 [at] news.zen.co.uk, Jaxtraw at
jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com wrote on 12/13/05 8:27 PM:
> One thing- does she actually die before being reanimated or does the
> Companion join with her before she dies? I got the impression it "saves" her
> at the brink of death by joining with her. Of course it's only saving her
> from the completely avoidable fate it caused by its own actions, anyway.
yeah.
A quote:
Companion, you do not have the power
to create life.
That is for the Maker of all things.
But Commissioner Hedford was dying.
That part of us
was too weak to hold on.
In a moment, there would have been no continuing.
Now we're together.
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180159 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 01:17 |
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in article Pine.GSO.4.61.0512132326050.20122 [at] shell1, Robert Bernardo at
rbernardo [at] iglou.com wrote on 12/13/05 9:27 PM:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Laura wrote:
>
>> The companion had a choice.
>
> Right. The Companion chose self-sacrifice.
No, The Companion chose to take over somebody's body against their will
(after sentencing that person to death) to claim a lover.
>
> Truly,
> Robert Bernardo
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180160 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 01:18 |
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in article Pine.GSO.4.61.0512132327280.20122 [at] shell1, Robert Bernardo at
rbernardo [at] iglou.com wrote on 12/13/05 9:29 PM:
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2005, Jaxtraw wrote:
>
>> The only reason Hedford's life was in peril was because the Companion held
>> her captive.
>
> Which the Companion did not realize until it was explained to her
> by Kirk.
And which didn't prompt it to do anything. Only keeping Cochrane cause it
to take action.
>
> Nobody's perfect (a line used
> several times in the Trek movies),
> Robert Bernardo
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180161 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 01:20 |
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in article %GOnf.41360$7r6.30346 [at] trnddc07, Manco at manco_dollars [at] net.com
wrote on 12/13/05 11:10 PM:
> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>> Captain Pike agreed to spend his the rest of his days with the
>> Talosians, so I think everything worked out for the best. What I find
>> implausible was how Commodore Menendez chose not to pursue charges
>> against Spock. I mean, all he did was merely commandeer the
>> Enterprise, issue false orders, kidnap Captain Pike, assault Starbase
>> personnel, etc., etc. ;)
>>
>> Shnaggletooth
>
> Except it wasn't Commodore Menendez on board the Enteprise, just another
> Talosian illusion.
>
>
It was probably Menendez on the Starbase though.
"The commodore was never aboard your vessel.
His presence there and in the shuttlecraft
was an illusion."
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180162 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 01:23 |
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in article 1134602542.374878.71860 [at] g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,
shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com at shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote on 12/14/05 4:22
PM:
>
> Manco wrote:
>> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Captain Pike agreed to spend his the rest of his days with the
>>> Talosians, so I think everything worked out for the best. What I find
>>> implausible was how Commodore Menendez chose not to pursue charges
>>> against Spock. I mean, all he did was merely commandeer the
>>> Enterprise, issue false orders, kidnap Captain Pike, assault Starbase
>>> personnel, etc., etc. ;)
>>>
>>> Shnaggletooth
>>
>> Except it wasn't Commodore Menendez on board the Enteprise, just another
>> Talosian illusion.
>
> Yeah, but we saw at the end that Menendez and Starfleet were watching
> the court proceedings the whole time. (Uhura's message from Starfleet)
"[ Uhura ] Message from Starbase 11, sir.
"Received images from Talos IV.
"In view of historic importance of Captain Pike"
"in space exploration,"
"GeneraI Order 7 prohibiting contact Talos IV"
"issuspended this occasion."
"No action contemplated against Spock."
"Proceed as you think best."
"Signed, Mendez,J.I., Commodore, Starbase 11. ""
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180164 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 01:29 |
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in article KLkof.40407$D13.31103 [at] newssvr11.news.prodigy.com, whodunit at
pillut_48 [at] sbcworldly.net wrote on 12/15/05 1:56 PM:
> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>> whodunit wrote:
>>
>>> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> She was ill. No one is at their best when they are ill.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I always got the impression that she was like that even before she
>>> became sick, like her whole life.
>>
>>
>> Why do you think that? It's not like she wasn't liked or respected. She
>> was a Federation Commissioner to start with, and a pretty young woman to
>> boot. Just cos she feverishly complained that she was good at her job,
>> but had "never been loved" doesn't mean she was in any way a bad
>> person. She had been granted a vital diplomatic mission: to "stop a
>> war". She must have had ~something~ on the ball.
>>
>> IMHO, she is more polite while deathly ill than most people are when
>> they are healthy. Surely that is to her credit.
>>
>> She was dying. She had been robbed of her one hope for health, and was
>> dying! How good of a sport would you be under such circumstances?
>
> Girlie,
>
> It's been about 20 years since the last time I saw the episodes *!*
> so what I'm remembering is impressions, not facts. :-)
>
> I'm a lot older now, and I'm lucky if I can remember my own name most
> days. Cut me some slack. ;-)
No, you were right. She's a miserable person on the shuttlecraft, before
they ever get waylaid, insulting McCoy, Starfleet, snapping demands at Kirk.
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180165 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 01:38 |
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<shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1134507905.887721.20140 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> 6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
> Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving Bailey
> behind with Balok.
Drinking some trawnya from the aline who tried to destroy the Enterprise
for no readily apparantl reason, just because Balock drank some first.
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180167 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 04:18 |
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THE most dubious decision will be the decision to return for the next
movie ... at least if it's in any major part. :-\
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180168 ] |
Fr, 16 Dezember 2005 05:07 |
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Karl Johanson wrote:
> <shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1134507905.887721.20140 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>>6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
>>Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving Bailey
>>behind with Balok.
>
>
> Drinking some trawnya from the aline who tried to destroy the Enterprise
> for no readily apparantl reason, just because Balock drank some first.
Again, that wasn't a "command decision." Kirk made that decision for
himself.
It would have been a "command decision" if Kirk had ordered Bailey to
drink it.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180180 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 16:38 |
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Jaxtraw wrote:
> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
> news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
>> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
<snip>
>> I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy Hedford
>> were disposed of.
They were not disposed of.
>>
>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
>
> I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
> genocide" approach on Deneva :)
>
> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her, reanimates
> her, and she's stuck forever on an asteroid with a man she's never
> met before. Not really a result for poor Nancy, is it?
>
What?!?
The Companion and Hedford merged on a voluntary bases.
Companion/Hedford creature says: "Now we're together." ... "We are one."
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180181 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 16:41 |
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ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
> in article Pine.GSO.4.61.0512132326050.20122 [at] shell1, Robert Bernardo
> at rbernardo [at] iglou.com wrote on 12/13/05 9:27 PM:
>
>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Laura wrote:
>>
>>> The companion had a choice.
>>
>> Right. The Companion chose self-sacrifice.
>
> No, The Companion chose to take over somebody's body against their
> will (after sentencing that person to death) to claim a lover.
>>
No, Nancy was close to death but was *saved* by the merger.
The Companion who was immortal no longer was immortal after that.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180182 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 16:48 |
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Brad Filippone wrote:
<snip>
>> I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
>> genocide" approach on Deneva :)
>
> I have a problem with people calling it genocide when clearly the
> Denevans are not the only humans in the universe.
>
It would have been the genocide of the Denevan humans.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180183 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 16:53 |
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ToolPackinMama wrote:
> Jaxtraw wrote:
>> "Brad Filippone" <al019 [at] chebucto.ns.ca> wrote in message
>> news:dnp9k2$m85$5 [at] News.Dal.Ca...
>>
>>> Jaxtraw (jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com) wrote:
>>>> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
>>>>> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>> 6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
>>>>>> Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving
>>>>>> Bailey behind with Balok.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5) Not really a command decision, but more of a lapse in command:
>>>>>> Kirk's falling in love with the female android and generally
>>
>> behaving
>>
>>>>>> like an agonized love-sick teenager ("Requiem For Methesula")
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4) Persuading his senior officers to go along with the mind-body
>>
>> switch
>>
>>>>>> in "Return to Tomorrow".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) Sending a shuttlecraft team to investigate the quasar in "The
>>>>>> Galileo 7". Yes, he did have standing orders from Starfleet to
>>>>>> investigate all quasar-like activity, but he also had priority
>>
>> orders
>>
>>>>>> from the Federation to send medical supplies to a plague-ridden
>>
>> colony.
>>
>>>>>> Kirk should have known that if something went wrong with the
>>
>> mission,
>>
>>>>>> the quasar would hinder attempts to communicate and rescue. He
>>>>>> also knew about the tight deadline for transporting the medical
>>>>>> supplies. The Federation guy, though he was a creepy jerk, was
>>>>>> right when he
>>
>> said
>>
>>>>>> Kirk should never have sent the team in the first place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) Failing to follow Starfleet procedure, "General Order 12":
>>>>>> Don't approach another Starfleet vessel unless communiations
>>>>>> have first
>>
>> been
>>
>>>>>> established. ("The Wrath Of Khan")
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Relegating Khan and his crew to Ceti Alpha 5 instead of
>>>>>> bringing them in chains to a Starbase. (A move which would come
>>>>>> back to haunt Kirk in "The Wrath Of Khan".)
>>>>>
>>>>> I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy
>>>>> Hedford
>>
>> were
>>
>>>>> disposed of.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
>>>
>>>> I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
>>
>> genocide"
>>
>>>> approach on Deneva :)
>>>
>>> I have a problem with people calling it genocide when clearly the
>>> Denevans are not the only humans in the universe.
>>>
>>> Brad
>>
>>
>> Genocide is hard to define exactly but generally means the
>> destruction of a people based on who they are, generally by
>> nationality/ethnicity. The Jews aren't the only humans in the
>> universe either, but the Holocaust is generally considered to be an
>> act of genocide. However, rather than argue, I'd be happy to accept that
>> Kirk was
>> considering simply an immense act of mass murder (with far less
>> justification than, say, Kodos the Executioner had, who was faced
>> with the impossible choice between all the colonists starving to
>> death, or euthanising half to allow the other half a chance of
>> survival. AFAICT, based on the infomation given in The Consicience
>> Of The King, Kodos made the right choice)).
>
No he didn't. He suddenly started to decide which ones had 'value' and which
ones had not.
Kirk was faced with a problem that could spill into the entire galaxy.
> I have no idea what you guys are going on about. The Denevan humans
> were not threatened, except by the non-human parasites. Kirk's action
> there was designed to kill all the parasites, not the humans.
>
One option would have been killing the humans on Deneva.
Kirk considered that option, but really didn't like that one.
> BTW, I got the impression that the humans on Deneva were transplanted
> Terrans, like Kirk's relatives. Nobody stated or implied that the
> humans there were native to that planet... did they? I though Deneva
> was a Terran colony.
Deneva was indeed a Terran colony.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
|
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180184 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 17:03 |
|
Jaxtraw wrote:
> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
> news:G7SdndxYw68zeD3enZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d [at] comcast.com...
>> Jaxtraw wrote:
>>> "3D Master" <3d.master [at] chello.nl> wrote in message
>>> news:97125$43a08db8$3ec2eec9$5130 [at] news.chello.nl...
>>>
>>>> General Order 24: the destruction of all sentient life on the
>>>> planet in "A Taste of Armageddon". If the people there didn't give
>>>> in: bye, bye planet. I'd say that's a big one. It all panned out
>>>> in the end of course, and the order was never executed; but he did
>>>> give it, gambling with the lives of an entire planet.
>>>>
>>>> Not that I disagree with the order, but it's definitely a
>>>> "questionable" one.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's even more dubious that the order even *exists*.
>>
>> We don't actually know what that order fully, totally, ~really~
>> entails. Uhura reacted with shock when she heard Scotty say they
>> were
>> preparing to target all major cities. Why was she surprised or
>> dismayed by that? Didn't she already know what "general order 24"
>> meant?
>>
>> Seriously. Think about it.
>
> I've just watched it and there's no way around it; it's a real order.
> There's no hint or implication of a ruse anywhere. Uhura's shock
> reaction is probably just the director trying to add a bit of
> excitement. You're right; she should know what GO24 is.
>
She probably did. She might have hoped it would not be needed. When Scott
gave that order the implementation of this controversial order became more
real.
She probably thought: "O, f*... we're really going to do this..."
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180185 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 17:08 |
|
Steven L. wrote:
> tieus wrote:
>> Other dubious orders:
>> . . . .
>> Stealing the Enterprise in Star Trek III.
>
> That wasn't a "command decision." In fact, Kirk told his crew they
> didn't have to go with him, but they insisted. I got the feeling that
> Scotty, Sulu and Uhura had all volunteered in order to help McCoy,
> rather than Kirk ordering them to help him.
Yeah.
Those were acts of friendship and loyalty.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180186 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 17:10 |
|
ToolPackinMama wrote:
> tieus wrote:
<snip>
> Hmm. Generally, I think Kirk sticks pretty close to the book, but
> many times the book is no help, and he has to get creative.
>
> We see the most interesting things when he gets creative. Kirk on a
> "creative" day is pretty kinky. :)
And pretty dangerous to his opponents.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
|
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180187 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 17:13 |
|
Steven L. wrote:
> Karl Johanson wrote:
>> <shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1134507905.887721.20140 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> 6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
>>> Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving Bailey
>>> behind with Balok.
>>
>>
>> Drinking some trawnya from the aline who tried to destroy the
>> Enterprise for no readily apparantl reason, just because Balock
>> drank some first.
>
> Again, that wasn't a "command decision." Kirk made that decision for
> himself.
> It would have been a "command decision" if Kirk had ordered Bailey to
> drink it.
Ah... I'm picturing it already. ;)
Kirk, dubious about the drink, says: "Mister Bailey, take a sip, that's an
order. If you don't drop dead it's safe for me as well."
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
|
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180196 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 19:16 |
|
Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> Jaxtraw wrote:
>
>>"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
>>news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
>>
>>>shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>>I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy Hedford
>>>were disposed of.
>
>
> They were not disposed of.
>
>
>>>http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
>>
>>I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
>>genocide" approach on Deneva :)
>>
>>I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her, reanimates
>>her, and she's stuck forever on an asteroid with a man she's never
>>met before. Not really a result for poor Nancy, is it?
>>
>
>
> What?!?
> The Companion and Hedford merged on a voluntary bases.
> Companion/Hedford creature says: "Now we're together." ... "We are one."
>
Yes, IIRC, Nancy *was* given a choice, and she chose to stay alive with
the Companion's help.
|
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180197 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 20:14 |
|
Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> Steven L. wrote:
>
>>Karl Johanson wrote:
>>
>>><shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1134507905.887721.20140 [at] o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>6) Promoting Bailey to a head navigator position ("The Corbomite
>>>>Maneuver"). Kirk kind of made up for this blunder by leaving Bailey
>>>>behind with Balok.
>>>
>>>
>>>Drinking some trawnya from the aline who tried to destroy the
>>>Enterprise for no readily apparantl reason, just because Balock
>>>drank some first.
>>
>>Again, that wasn't a "command decision." Kirk made that decision for
>>himself.
>>It would have been a "command decision" if Kirk had ordered Bailey to
>>drink it.
>
>
> Ah... I'm picturing it already. ;)
> Kirk, dubious about the drink, says: "Mister Bailey, take a sip, that's an
> order. If you don't drop dead it's safe for me as well."
Well, that strategy kept Saddam alive all these years.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdlitvin [at] earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180198 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 20:22 |
|
"whodunit" <pillut_48 [at] sbcworldly.net> wrote in message
news:GBYof.42783$6e1.26159 [at] newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> > Jaxtraw wrote:
> >
> >>"ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
> >>news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
> >>
> >>>shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >>>I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy Hedford
> >>>were disposed of.
> >
> >
> > They were not disposed of.
> >
> >
> >>>http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
> >>
> >>I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
> >>genocide" approach on Deneva :)
> >>
> >>I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her, reanimates
> >>her, and she's stuck forever on an asteroid with a man she's never
> >>met before. Not really a result for poor Nancy, is it?
> >>
> >
> >
> > What?!?
> > The Companion and Hedford merged on a voluntary bases.
> > Companion/Hedford creature says: "Now we're together." ... "We are one."
> >
> Yes, IIRC, Nancy *was* given a choice, and she chose to stay alive with
> the Companion's help.
Yes, that's a real free choice that; do X or die. What else would she
choose? And it still doesn't alter the fact that she was only at the brink
of death because of the Companion's behaviour in the first place.
Ian
|
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180199 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 21:45 |
|
in article 43a43109$0$24373$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl, Wouter Valentijn at
liam [at] valentijn.nu wrote on 12/17/05 8:38 AM:
> Jaxtraw wrote:
>> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
>> news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
>>> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>> I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy Hedford
>>> were disposed of.
>
> They were not disposed of.
>
>>>
>>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
>>
>> I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
>> genocide" approach on Deneva :)
>>
>> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her, reanimates
>> her, and she's stuck forever on an asteroid with a man she's never
>> met before. Not really a result for poor Nancy, is it?
>>
>
> What?!?
> The Companion and Hedford merged on a voluntary bases.
> Companion/Hedford creature says: "Now we're together." ... "We are one."
Why does that mean it was voluntary on Hedford's part?
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180200 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 21:46 |
|
in article 43a431af$0$11080$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl, Wouter Valentijn at
liam [at] valentijn.nu wrote on 12/17/05 8:41 AM:
> ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
>> in article Pine.GSO.4.61.0512132326050.20122 [at] shell1, Robert Bernardo
>> at rbernardo [at] iglou.com wrote on 12/13/05 9:27 PM:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Laura wrote:
>>>
>>>> The companion had a choice.
>>>
>>> Right. The Companion chose self-sacrifice.
>>
>> No, The Companion chose to take over somebody's body against their
>> will (after sentencing that person to death) to claim a lover.
>>>
>
> No, Nancy was close to death but was *saved* by the merger.
if you consider that 'saved' :-)
> The Companion who was immortal no longer was immortal after that.
>
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180201 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 21:46 |
|
in article 43a4333c$0$11079$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl, Wouter Valentijn at
liam [at] valentijn.nu wrote on 12/17/05 8:48 AM:
> Brad Filippone wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
>>> genocide" approach on Deneva :)
>>
>> I have a problem with people calling it genocide when clearly the
>> Denevans are not the only humans in the universe.
>>
>
> It would have been the genocide of the Denevan humans.
That assumes Denvan humans are a race, of course.
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
|
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180202 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 21:51 |
|
in article GBYof.42783$6e1.26159 [at] newssvr14.news.prodigy.com, whodunit at
pillut_48 [at] sbcworldly.net wrote on 12/17/05 11:16 AM:
> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>> Jaxtraw wrote:
>>
>>> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
>>> news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
>>>
>>>> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy Hedford
>>>> were disposed of.
>>
>>
>> They were not disposed of.
>>
>>
>>>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
>>>
>>> I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
>>> genocide" approach on Deneva :)
>>>
>>> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her, reanimates
>>> her, and she's stuck forever on an asteroid with a man she's never
>>> met before. Not really a result for poor Nancy, is it?
>>>
>>
>>
>> What?!?
>> The Companion and Hedford merged on a voluntary bases.
>> Companion/Hedford creature says: "Now we're together." ... "We are one."
>>
> Yes, IIRC, Nancy *was* given a choice, and she chose to stay alive with
> the Companion's help.
Nancy was given no choice. She was just laying there dying (because of the
Companion) and the Companion went in and took over her body.
Her last words:
Doctor.
Right here, Miss Hedford.
I heard him.
He was loved ...
and he resents it.
You just rest.
No.
I --I don't want to die.
I've been -- been good at my job ...
but ...
I've never been loved.
Never.
Wh-What kind of life is that ...
not to be loved ...
never ... to have shown love?
And he runs away from love.
[Sobs]
IIRC, we never hear from her again.
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
|
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180203 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 21:51 |
|
in article 43a4647a$0$23281$db0fefd9 [at] news.zen.co.uk, Jaxtraw at
jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com wrote on 12/17/05 12:22 PM:
> "whodunit" <pillut_48 [at] sbcworldly.net> wrote in message
> news:GBYof.42783$6e1.26159 [at] newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>>> Jaxtraw wrote:
>>>
>>>> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy Hedford
>>>>> were disposed of.
>>>
>>>
>>> They were not disposed of.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
>>>>
>>>> I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
>>>> genocide" approach on Deneva :)
>>>>
>>>> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her, reanimates
>>>> her, and she's stuck forever on an asteroid with a man she's never
>>>> met before. Not really a result for poor Nancy, is it?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What?!?
>>> The Companion and Hedford merged on a voluntary bases.
>>> Companion/Hedford creature says: "Now we're together." ... "We are one."
>>>
>> Yes, IIRC, Nancy *was* given a choice, and she chose to stay alive with
>> the Companion's help.
>
> Yes, that's a real free choice that; do X or die. What else would she
> choose? And it still doesn't alter the fact that she was only at the brink
> of death because of the Companion's behaviour in the first place.
>
And she wasn't given a choice anyway.
--
You Can't Stop the Signal
SERENITY on DVD December 20th
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BW7QWW
|
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180204 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 23:29 |
|
ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
> in article 43a431af$0$11080$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl, Wouter Valentijn
> at liam [at] valentijn.nu wrote on 12/17/05 8:41 AM:
>
>> ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
>>> in article Pine.GSO.4.61.0512132326050.20122 [at] shell1, Robert Bernardo
>>> at rbernardo [at] iglou.com wrote on 12/13/05 9:27 PM:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005, Laura wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The companion had a choice.
>>>>
>>>> Right. The Companion chose self-sacrifice.
>>>
>>> No, The Companion chose to take over somebody's body against their
>>> will (after sentencing that person to death) to claim a lover.
>>>>
>>
>> No, Nancy was close to death but was *saved* by the merger.
>
> if you consider that 'saved' :-)
Her life and her mind were intact.
And she was no longer alone.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
|
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180205 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 23:31 |
|
ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
> in article 43a4333c$0$11079$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl, Wouter Valentijn
> at liam [at] valentijn.nu wrote on 12/17/05 8:48 AM:
>
>> Brad Filippone wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
>>>> genocide" approach on Deneva :)
>>>
>>> I have a problem with people calling it genocide when clearly the
>>> Denevans are not the only humans in the universe.
>>>
>>
>> It would have been the genocide of the Denevan humans.
>
> That assumes Denvan humans are a race, of course.
No.
It assumes a specific group of people.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
|
|
|
| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180206 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 23:34 |
|
ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
> in article GBYof.42783$6e1.26159 [at] newssvr14.news.prodigy.com, whodunit
> at pillut_48 [at] sbcworldly.net wrote on 12/17/05 11:16 AM:
>
>> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>>> Jaxtraw wrote:
>>>
>>>> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy
>>>>> Hedford were disposed of.
>>>
>>>
>>> They were not disposed of.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
>>>>
>>>> I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
>>>> genocide" approach on Deneva :)
>>>>
>>>> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her, reanimates
>>>> her, and she's stuck forever on an asteroid with a man she's never
>>>> met before. Not really a result for poor Nancy, is it?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What?!?
>>> The Companion and Hedford merged on a voluntary bases.
>>> Companion/Hedford creature says: "Now we're together." ... "We are
>>> one."
>>>
>> Yes, IIRC, Nancy *was* given a choice, and she chose to stay alive
>> with the Companion's help.
>
> Nancy was given no choice. She was just laying there dying (because
> of the Companion) and the Companion went in and took over her body.
>
>
> Her last words:
>
> Doctor.
> Right here, Miss Hedford.
> I heard him.
> He was loved ...
> and he resents it.
> You just rest.
> No.
> I --I don't want to die.
> I've been -- been good at my job ...
> but ...
> I've never been loved.
> Never.
> Wh-What kind of life is that ...
> not to be loved ...
> never ... to have shown love?
> And he runs away from love.
> [Sobs]
>
> IIRC, we never hear from her again.
Nonsense.
She was given the choice of a lifetime. She was *never* loved and now the
Companion offered her not only life but also the opportunity for the thing
she totally *yearned* for all her life: LOVE!
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
|
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| Re: Top 6 Most dubious command decisions made by Kirk [message #180207 ] |
Sa, 17 Dezember 2005 23:35 |
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ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
> in article 43a43109$0$24373$e4fe514c [at] news.xs4all.nl, Wouter Valentijn
> at liam [at] valentijn.nu wrote on 12/17/05 8:38 AM:
>
>> Jaxtraw wrote:
>>> "ToolPackinMama" <laura [at] lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
>>> news:3r-dnVYDzLzgowLeRVn-qA [at] comcast.com...
>>>> shnaggletooth [at] yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> I had problems with how Captain Pike and Commissioner Nancy Hedford
>>>> were disposed of.
>>
>> They were not disposed of.
>>
>>>>
>>>> http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/hedford.htm
>>>
>>> I had a few problems with the "find a solution right now or it's
>>> genocide" approach on Deneva :)
>>>
>>> I agree with the Hedford thing. The companion kills her, reanimates
>>> her, and she's stuck forever on an asteroid with a man she's never
>>> met before. Not really a result for poor Nancy, is it?
>>>
>>
>> What?!?
>> The Companion and Hedford merged on a voluntary bases.
>> Companion/Hedford creature says: "Now we're together." ... "We are
>> one."
>
> Why does that mean it was voluntary on Hedford's part?
I interpreted it that way.
Hedford accepted the offer of life and love.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity and the ways our
differences combine to create meaning and beauty.
Vulcan IDIC "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"
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